A person who sin is not a Christian!

[DaveW]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

[Ladonia]

And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.

Did your brother die on the cross for you?  Did your brother give you the Holy Spirit, and grace to not sin?  Yes forgive your brother, but Jesus is your God, and he expects you to obey him.  

If Jesus says that we are to forgive our brother "seventy times seven", do you really think that Jesus would turn around and do the exact opposite when it comes to us? No, I don't think so.

What we have here with the Scriptures you quote and the ones I quoted puts us in a quandary. Who do we believe, the Master or one of His followers? I'm going with the Master.

[Giver]

And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.

Did your brother die on the cross for you?  Did your brother give you the Holy Spirit, and grace to not sin?  Yes forgive your brother, but Jesus is your God, and he expects you to obey him. 

If Jesus says that we are to forgive our brother "seventy times seven", do you really think that Jesus would turn around and do the exact opposite when it comes to us? No, I don't think so.

What we have here with the Scriptures you quote and the ones I quoted puts us in a quandary. Who do we believe, the Master or one of His followers? I'm going with the Master.

You should know your bible well enough to know that is exactly what God did.  He does not allow sinners into the kingdom of Heaven.  Also if one who knows him deliberately commits a sin there is no repentance for that person.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

[Giver]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

[Ladonia]

Giver, you posted the following earlier in this thread.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

[Ladonia]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

Well of course God would never lead you to sin, that is from Satan and we need to be on guard against the evil one.

[DaveW]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

I will take that as a "no."

You are wrong.  The answer is yes.

If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin.  If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.

Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.

[Jimmy]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

[Giver]

Giver, you posted the following earlier in this thread.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

[Giver]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

I will take that as a "no."

You are wrong.  The answer is yes.

If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin.  If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.

Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.

How wrong you are.  The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation.  Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation.  Jesus guides everything I do.  I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make. 

Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?

[MeMyself]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

I will take that as a "no."

You are wrong.  The answer is yes.

If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin.  If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.

Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.

How wrong you are.  The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation.  Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation.  Jesus guides everything I do.  I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.  

Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?

I find this so fascinating!  You really believe that you are sinless.  Honest and for true?  So, you are perfect, never hurt someone's feelings and need to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong", or speak from selfish ambition, or try and control situations, or are rude, or thoughtless?  REALLY?!

And, as for the "I ask Jesus about all decisions" bit...so what about split second decisions that have to be made say while driving? I believe in allowing God to have control over our lives, but to claim that every single decision is lead by the Lord just can't be true!  AND Paul confessed in the word that he struggled with sin.  Guess he wasn't a Christian either.  Heaven is going to be a very lonely place for you, Giver.

[Giver]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

[Giver]

Is it possible to sin in obeying God?

My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.

My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  I personally only listen and follow my God.

I will take that as a "no."

You are wrong.  The answer is yes.

If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin.  If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.

Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.

How wrong you are.  The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation.  Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation.  Jesus guides everything I do.  I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make. 

Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?

I find this so fascinating!  You really believe that you are sinless.  Honest and for true?  So, you are perfect, never hurt someone's feelings and need to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong", or speak from selfish ambition, or try and control situations, or are rude, or thoughtless?  REALLY?!

And, as for the "I ask Jesus about all decisions" bit...so what about split second decisions that have to be made say while driving? I believe in allowing God to have control over our lives, but to claim that every single decision is lead by the Lord just can't be true!  AND Paul confessed in the word that he struggled with sin.  Guess he wasn't a Christian either.  Heaven is going to be a very lonely place for you, Giver.

Early Christians knew what I have been sharing is the truth.
What I am sharing is a spiritual walk with God.  It is foolishness to people who are not spiritual.

No person could or can live without sin unless he or she is being led and given the grace by God. 

When a spiritual shares he or she does not sin, it is only giving glory to God, because only with God can one defeat Satan/sin.

The way one knows if he or she is spiritual is if they can live the whole Word of God, which includes not sinning.

[DaveW]

How wrong you are.  The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation.  Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation.  Jesus guides everything I do.  I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make. 

Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?

That is not what I am talking about.  I am talking about when you sense God telling you to do something that you feel is wrong. (usually due to a false belief system)

For example - I had a pastor back in high school that before coming to faith was a drunk.  One day God impressed on him to go to the bar he used to frequent years earlier and pass out tracts. But he believed and taught that even smelling alcohol met the biblical standard of "drunkenness" which is forbidden. Since he could not smell alcohol in biblical faith, to him it would truly be sinful.

How could he obey the leading of the Lord and not sin? He finally decided to hyperventilate and then hold his breath and run thru the place throwing tracts at every one. That way he would not smell the booze and lose his salvation.

That is one of the interesting quirks of the New Covenant - anything done in a lack of biblical faith is sinful. But the sin is a lack of faith, not necessarily the activity itself.

[FireSword]

The thing about Johns letter is he states black and white statements, rather than write in detail about how many sins are acceptable etc, so he writes statements that the reader must figure things out for themselves. In some ways they are like ingridients that make up a recipe. If one of the ingridients is missing, the picture is not complete.

[Ladonia]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

[Giver]

How wrong you are.  The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation.  Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation.  Jesus guides everything I do.  I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make. 

Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?

That is not what I am talking about.  I am talking about when you sense God telling you to do something that you feel is wrong. (usually due to a false belief system)

For example - I had a pastor back in high school that before coming to faith was a drunk.  One day God impressed on him to go to the bar he used to frequent years earlier and pass out tracts. But he believed and taught that even smelling alcohol met the biblical standard of "drunkenness" which is forbidden. Since he could not smell alcohol in biblical faith, to him it would truly be sinful.

How could he obey the leading of the Lord and not sin? He finally decided to hyperventilate and then hold his breath and run thru the place throwing tracts at every one. That way he would not smell the booze and lose his salvation.

That is one of the interesting quirks of the New Covenant - anything done in a lack of biblical faith is sinful. But the sin is a lack of faith, not necessarily the activity itself.

That situation comes about because one allows man to teach him or her about God.

The Holy Spirit/Jesus will teach one how to live the Word.  A person does not need anyone to teach them about God.

Ask Jesus what to do in any situation and then do as he tells you.

(1 John 2:27) "But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.

[Giver]

The thing about Johns letter is he states black and white statements, rather than write in detail about how many sins are acceptable etc, so he writes statements that the reader must figure things out for themselves. In some ways they are like ingridients that make up a recipe. If one of the ingridients is missing, the picture is not complete.

The Holy Spirit once told me to tell people that no matter who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop, or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong.

When one reads the Written Word of God, they need to ask Jesus what he wants them to understand about what they are reading.

[Giver]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.

Let me share something with you.  When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day.  I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one.  I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.

Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me.  I will teach you about me.

[Ladonia]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.

Let me share something with you.  When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day.  I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one.  I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.

Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me.  I will teach you about me.

[DaveW]

That situation comes about because one allows man to teach him or her about God.

The Holy Spirit/Jesus will teach one how to live the Word.  A person does not need anyone to teach them about God.

Yes the Holy Spirit is a teacher.  However, He usually works thru men.  Teachers are one of the 5 main ministries listed in Eph 4. We all need them.  God made sure of it.

[cs80918]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

[Giver]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Absolutely not.  To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin.  If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you.  The deed is done and can not be undone.

Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?

Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!

I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.

Let me share something with you.  When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day.  I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one.  I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.

Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me.  I will teach you about me.

[cs80918]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

[Giver]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

I became a Christian when I was a Child.  That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.

When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.

A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become.  Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking.  If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one. 

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

[Ladonia]

God bless you Giver and I am happy for you that you have reached this stage in your spiritual life.  A person who is no longer a sinner is truly a wonderful thing. I'm not there yet, but I'll keep on working on it, untill then I will keep on praying for Gods mercy upon my soul.

[Thankfulldad]

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

Do you trust yourself not sining for eternal life?

Or...

Do you trust the finished work of Christ on the Cross for the atonement of our sins for eternal life?

It has to be one or the other...there is no wiggle room; it is either Jesus Christ or Self...

[cs80918]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

I became a Christian when I was a Child.  That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.

When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.

A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become.  Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking.  If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.  

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?

When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?

My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit.  We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.

Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we  yield more and more to God.  Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.

When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ.  We are merchanise that Jesus has bought.  The bible says we were bought.  Which means he owns us.  We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus.  Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God.  God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.

In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?

Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus.  Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way.  My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.

These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"

I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like.  rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.

I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians.  How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?



1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men

[Giver]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

I became a Christian when I was a Child.  That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.

When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.

A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become.  Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking.  If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one. 

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?

When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?

My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit.  We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.

Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we  yield more and more to God.  Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.

When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ.  We are merchanise that Jesus has bought.  The bible says we were bought.  Which means he owns us.  We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus.  Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God.  God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.

In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?

Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus.  Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way.  My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.

These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"

I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like.  rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.

I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians.  How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?



1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men

For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit.  A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit.  There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.

I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one.  Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us. 

When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.  But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry.  After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do. 

My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved.  Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.  It only means they may not go to Hell.  If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.

[Giver]

Thankfuldad,

This post can be the best advice you have ever received.  Pray that God will give you a true understanding of the following verse.  This verse totally destroys Martin Luther and Calvin's understanding of God.

(Galations 5:13-26)

[cs80918]

Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

I became a Christian when I was a Child.  That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.

When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.

A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become.  Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking.  If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one. 

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?

When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?

My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit.  We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.

Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we  yield more and more to God.  Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.

When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ.  We are merchanise that Jesus has bought.  The bible says we were bought.  Which means he owns us.  We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus.  Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God.  God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.

In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?

Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus.  Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way.  My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.

These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"

I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like.  rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.

I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians.  How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?



1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men

For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit.  A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit.  There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.

I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one.  Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us. 

When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.  But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry.  After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do. 

My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved.  Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.  It only means they may not go to Hell.  If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.

What do you mean by the following things you said?-

Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.  It only means they may not go to Hell.  If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.


If  someone does not go to heaven or hell then where do they go?

Also, how are you walking in the spirit? 

I am also assuming you are Catholic?

[Thankfulldad]

Thankfuldad,

This post can be the best advice you have ever received.  Pray that God will give you a true understanding of the following verse.  This verse totally destroys Martin Luther and Calvin's understanding of God.

(Galations 5:13-26)" For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another.  I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

I know that verse well...and by faith, I trust fully in the blood of Jesus for Salvation; God has supernaturally deposited His Spirit into my heart.  It is His Spirit that works through me which display His Fruit.  I am saved first by faith...then, His Fruit/Spirit lives through me...the glory goes to God, and only HIM...

I am nothing...and if you think you are something; you only decieve yourself...

Also...it would be nice of you...if you would kindly answer my question...

[Giver]

cs80918,


Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.

[MeMyself]

cs80918,


Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.

[Giver]

cs80918,


Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.