The Thing I Greatly Feared

[Insight]

Are you saying that you don't believe satan exists?

Satan exists but like many subjects in the Bible one must dig a lot to discover truth.  Speaking at the Word as many here do will not reveal this hidden knowledge.

Very few are willing to be lead into truth...for why bother if we know everything!

Insight

What hidden knowledge?  Is it only hidden in your mind?

Read Proverbs 1-3 and return with tail between legs.

[Thankfulldad]

Are you saying that you don't believe satan exists?

Satan exists but like many subjects in the Bible one must dig a lot to discover truth.  Speaking at the Word as many here do will not reveal this hidden knowledge.

Very few are willing to be lead into truth...for why bother if we know everything!

Insight

What hidden knowledge?  Is it only hidden in your mind?

Read Proverbs 1-3 and return with tail between legs.

What is your religion and where do you come from?

[gospel]

Are you saying that you don't believe satan exists?

Satan exists but like many subjects in the Bible one must dig a lot to discover truth.  Speaking at the Word as many here do will not reveal this hidden knowledge.

Very few are willing to be lead into truth...for why bother if we know everything!

Insight

What hidden knowledge?  Is it only hidden in your mind?

Read Proverbs 1-3 and return with tail between legs.

What is your religion and where do you come from?

Yes Insight

at least have the decency and forthrightness to state your true beliefs without playing these coy word games 

If you have something you want to share, promote or assert start a thread and lay out your premise in the Light of Day

Let it be seen for what it is

Otherwise this thread is not about the doctrine you believe about Satan

[Insight]

Are you saying that you don't believe satan exists?

Satan exists but like many subjects in the Bible one must dig a lot to discover truth.  Speaking at the Word as many here do will not reveal this hidden knowledge.

Very few are willing to be lead into truth...for why bother if we know everything!

Insight

What hidden knowledge?  Is it only hidden in your mind?

Read Proverbs 1-3 and return with tail between legs.

What is your religion and where do you come from?

Yes Insight

at least have the decency and forthrightness to state your true beliefs without playing these coy word games  

If you have something you want to share, promote or assert start a thread and lay out your premise in the Light of Day

Let it be seen for what it is

Otherwise this thread is not about the doctrine you believe about Satan

It is enough for you to know that I do not believe in devils, demons and gargoyles.

As per your advice I am starting a series on Job for greater clarity and meaning.

Insight

[Thankfulldad]

It is enough for you to know that I do not believe in devils, demons and gargoyles.

Thanks...yes, that is enough for me not to take you seriously, I will ignor you now...

[Insight]

It is enough for you to know that I do not believe in devils, demons and gargoyles.

Thanks...yes, that is enough for me not to take you seriously, I will ignor you now...

As you wish thankful.

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

It speaks volumes of a person's character when one is easily offended.

No doubt you will enter the scene discretely

We shall see.

[Thankfulldad]

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

Not offended...just not impressed with your style, which seems to be that of an unbeliever.

[gospel]

It is enough for you to know that I do not believe in devils, demons and gargoyles.

Thanks...yes, that is enough for me not to take you seriously, I will ignor you now...

As you wish thankful.

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

It speaks volumes of a person's character when one is easily offended.

No doubt you will enter the scene discretely

We shall see.

When you start it

Just try not to be so weird and just make your case plainly is our prayer

By the way if you don't believe demons exist you pretty much deserve to be ignored

But lets us see how you present your case

[Insight]

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

Not offended...just not impressed with your style, which seems to be that of an unbeliever.

Yes the Pharisees reacted similarly  to Jesus' style. Although, Nicodemus found the strength to come to him in the night.

Like I said thankful, we will talk eventually...

[Thankfulldad]

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

Not offended...just not impressed with your style, which seems to be that of an unbeliever.

Yes the Pharisees reacted similarly  to Jesus' style. Although, Nicodemus found the strength to come to him in the night.

Like I said thankful, we will talk eventually...

Why would you compare yourself to Jesus?  You sounds LDS to me...

We may eventually...I will keep an eye on you...

[gospel]

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

Not offended...just not impressed with your style, which seems to be that of an unbeliever.

Yes the Pharisees reacted similarly  to Jesus' style. Although, Nicodemus found the strength to come to him in the night.

Like I said thankful, we will talk eventually...

Or start that new thread!

You're wasting time here pal when you could be working on a post that explains your no devil doctrine!

[Insight]

By the way, was it the devils, demons or the gargoyles which offended you?

Not offended...just not impressed with your style, which seems to be that of an unbeliever.

Yes the Pharisees reacted similarly  to Jesus' style. Although, Nicodemus found the strength to come to him in the night.

Like I said thankful, we will talk eventually...

Why would you compare yourself to Jesus?  You sounds LDS to me...

We may eventually...I will keep an eye on you...

Yes please do and hopefully its your Spiritual eye.

[gospel]

 

[Insight]

We shall eventually get to answer why Job feared a great fear here at http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/job-chastening-and-perfecting-a-son-of-god/

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

If you agree that this is so, then why do you deny that Jesus was able to suffer?

Didn't he hunger and thirst?

[bemark]

Jesus was made a little lower than angels (satan included)
He was manifest to destroy the works of the enemy

Jesus was in a man frame created lower than the Angels,  he defeated satan in our frame, so was tempted and never sinned and regained what was lost through Adams fall.He could do this because he was in a heavenly place on earth because he was seated in heavenly places .So we have a earthly frame empowered by the spirit,  releasing heaven to earth.Could he sin then? being so full of the Holy Ghost,  the express image of the Father.The person of God in bodily form

We know that he didn't...... so then for us what are the keys to living a sinless life.

Knowing the will of the father,abiding in his word and spending time in his presence.

[Insight]

For the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me, and that which I was afraid of has come unto me. Job 3:25

Many people have come to the conclusion that God causes us to go through hardships and affliction to teach and train us, to make us stronger or punish us

Job declared by his own words that he had been living in fear, so much fear that he described it as GREAT fear!

The answer to why Job was in fear in found in Chapter one of Job, you must be willing to look. 

By his own words he we know that he was always afraid, living in fear continually that what eventually happened would happen

You struggle to open the Word Gospel but make many assumptions.  Try quoting the Scriptures for others to see what you are discussing.

Fear belongs to Satan, it is the opposite of Faith

Here is a good example.

Show us where fear belongs to satan?  Do you have a passage in mind?   Or are these simply your unsubstantiated thoughts?

If so, qualify with "my thoughts

[Supplanter]

MOD HAT ON

Stop flaming one another in this thread or I will be forced to lock it down until everyone calms down a bit. A dissenting view point does not mean pleasant discourse is to be done away with. You may be passionate about your view, but choose to express it in a respectful manner. If someone flames you, press the report button. Do not respond to it.


MOD HAT ON

[Supplanter]

As for not believing in Satan or demons. I've found that whether he/they exist or not is really inconsequential to e personally. I don't believe Satan has more power than God and I don't believe it is right ascribe such things to him. I would rather live a life focused on Christ than trying avoid the attacks of Satan.

I find I have much more issues that I bring upon myself than Satan ever thought about doing.

[gospel]

As for not believing in Satan or demons. I've found that whether he/they exist or not is really inconsequential to e personally. I don't believe Satan has more power than God and I don't believe it is right ascribe such things to him. I would rather live a life focused on Christ than trying avoid the attacks of Satan.

I find I have much more issues that I bring upon myself than Satan ever thought about doing.

I like what you said,

I don't believe Satan has more power than God

You're right and Jesus was fully God so there is no way Jesus could have ever failed in the wilderness.

That was Satan verses God, Satan trying to seduce God, Satan trying to entice God, Satan trying to tempt God.

See how easy it is to adhere to conflicting beliefs?   

I would rather live a life focused on Christ than trying avoid the attacks of Satan.

On the other hand YOU, a mere mortal, a flesh and blood human, unlike Jesus you DO NOT HAVE THE FULLNESS OF THE SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE

Yet you profess to having no problem denying the power of Satan's influence over you yet....

.... you deny the same thing for Jesus?

Think about it 

[Insight]

Jesus was made a little lower than angels (satan included)

True - Born of a woman and unclean.

He was manifest to destroy the works of the enemy

Yes he destroyed the devil, but what is the devil in Heb 2:14,15 that which "had

[bemark]

Jesus was made a little lower than angels (satan included)

True - Born of a woman and unclean.

He was manifest to destroy the works of the enemy

Yes he destroyed the devil, but what is the devil in Heb 2:14,15 that which "had

[bemark]

Hay Insight have you ever felt the Holy Spirit

[bemark]

Almost every word has error.

Provide a quote for Jesus defeating Satan?


Insight are you for real........come on

You are joking right?

[LightHammer]

Just a little advice for all of you. Do not engage Insight unless you have seriously studied the Bible and have prepared a strong defense for the Trinity. Also if you don't have the backbone to have your most cherished beliefs challenged then leave him alone. The guy is a worthy opponent and he knows how to engage in a debate. He will leave some of you barren if you don't know your stuff.

He does have a tendency to ignore the most consequential points, which is why I simply had to stop taking our debate seriously. However if you don't eat, breath and sleep theology like some of us Insight will have you dumbfounded.

Although we move his Unitarian beliefs to the Non-Traditional Forum, in reality his beliefs are far older than you all's Protestant theology. His heresy goes back 2000 years to Arius as such you proponents of European-crafted Christianity, who's theology is relatively new, probably aren't used to dealing with such old school heresies.

Just stay sharp and stay rooted. Our Brother Insight is well-versed in his faith.

[Insight]

Just a little advice for all of you. Do not engage Insight unless you have seriously studied the Bible and have prepared a strong defense for the Trinity. Also if you don't have the backbone to have your most cherished beliefs challenged then leave him alone. The guy is a worthy opponent and he knows how to engage in a debate. He will leave some of you barren if you don't know your stuff.
He does have a tendency to ignore the most consequential points, which is why I simply had to stop taking our debate seriously. However if you don't eat, breath and sleep theology like some of us Insight will have you dumbfounded.
Although we move his Unitarian beliefs to the Non-Traditional Forum, in reality his beliefs are far older than you all's Protestant theology. His heresy goes back 2000 years to Arius as such you proponents of European-crafted Christianity, who's theology is relatively new, probably aren't used to dealing with such old school heresies.
Just stay sharp and stay rooted. Our Brother Insight is well-versed in his faith.

Lighthammer is correct in quoting my beliefs are 2000 years old, however his claims to their origin is far from centre.  My beliefs and their source are directly from the Apostle Paul himself, who was in turn taught by Jesus Christ himself.

One might say I am a third generation believer  

Let's take Benmark's first point as a test of Lighthammer remarks.

1) Jesus was not unclean until he took on the sin of the world and Gods wrath was released upon him and not us.

This reeks of the substitution theology which aims to satisfy an angry God.   Let's deal with the first part of Benmarks comment.

Very few Christians here Lighthammer would give these marvellous lessons the time of day nor apply their minds to understand them and no doubt I type in vain but here goes...

"Whatsoever, openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is Mine"

Yahweh decreed this in Exodus 13:2  and was a instruction related to every case where a woman's first child was a male.

If a sister had been born first, the second child was not offered (Luke 2:23). Antitypically, the Lord Jesus, being elevated to the firstborn, was the offering of Yahweh.

No doubt Benmark is lost in the above but we continue in the hope that maybe the message might penetrate the deception that reigns within.

Now when a babe is born of an Israelite, it was unclean:

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Job 14:4

How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Job 25:4

All firstborn sons, born of a woman were unholy, until its circumcision, and after its presentation to the LORD.

"Every male that openeth the womb "shall be

[Insight]

Just a little advice for all of you. Do not engage Insight unless you have seriously studied the Bible and have prepared a strong defense for the Trinity. Also if you don't have the backbone to have your most cherished beliefs challenged then leave him alone. The guy is a worthy opponent and he knows how to engage in a debate. He will leave some of you barren if you don't know your stuff.

He does have a tendency to ignore the most consequential points, which is why I simply had to stop taking our debate seriously. However if you don't eat, breath and sleep theology like some of us Insight will have you dumbfounded.

Although we move his Unitarian beliefs to the Non-Traditional Forum, in reality his beliefs are far older than you all's Protestant theology. His heresy goes back 2000 years to Arius as such you proponents of European-crafted Christianity, who's theology is relatively new, probably aren't used to dealing with such old school heresies.

Just stay sharp and stay rooted. Our Brother Insight is well-versed in his faith.

Lighthammer,

We did not formerly end our discussion on the Trinity, though I felt it had a great deal further to go before we could reach a sound conclusion. 

Needless to say I enjoyed it immensely.

In all my years of discussing the wonders of Bible truths I have never come across a Trinitarian (especially a Catholic!) who has held himself which such integrity. 

In the Masters Service

Insight

[LightHammer]

Just a little advice for all of you. Do not engage Insight unless you have seriously studied the Bible and have prepared a strong defense for the Trinity. Also if you don't have the backbone to have your most cherished beliefs challenged then leave him alone. The guy is a worthy opponent and he knows how to engage in a debate. He will leave some of you barren if you don't know your stuff.

He does have a tendency to ignore the most consequential points, which is why I simply had to stop taking our debate seriously. However if you don't eat, breath and sleep theology like some of us Insight will have you dumbfounded.

Although we move his Unitarian beliefs to the Non-Traditional Forum, in reality his beliefs are far older than you all's Protestant theology. His heresy goes back 2000 years to Arius as such you proponents of European-crafted Christianity, who's theology is relatively new, probably aren't used to dealing with such old school heresies.

Just stay sharp and stay rooted. Our Brother Insight is well-versed in his faith.

Lighthammer,

We did not formerly end our discussion on the Trinity, though I felt it had a great deal further to go before we could reach a sound conclusion. 

Needless to say I enjoyed it immensely.

In all my years of discussing the wonders of Bible truths I have never come across a Trinitarian (especially a Catholic!) who has held himself which such integrity. 

In the Masters Service

Insight

Thank you Brother.

I wish I could say the "in all my years" line but I'm only 20 so it wouldn't hold any real weight.lol

If you rerelease the thread you will see where I stated early on that I had no intention of trying to win an argument with you. I was interested to test the limits of our ancient controversy. Repelling Medieval Europen spin offs of Christianity gets kind of boring after a while. Once I realized our discussion had ran its course I let it die but I think I might check it out and see if there are any points left to address. Maybe I can sway you after all.lol

I didn't mean to derail this thread so I'll leave you to the Protestants.

May the Pece of the Holy Trinity Be With You

P.S.

Try not to be so shocked that we Catholics know our stuff. Granted I have no life but we go hard in the paint as a whole.

[bemark]

Just a little advice for all of you. Do not engage Insight unless you have seriously studied the Bible and have prepared a strong defense for the Trinity. Also if you don't have the backbone to have your most cherished beliefs challenged then leave him alone. The guy is a worthy opponent and he knows how to engage in a debate. He will leave some of you barren if you don't know your stuff.
He does have a tendency to ignore the most consequential points, which is why I simply had to stop taking our debate seriously. However if you don't eat, breath and sleep theology like some of us Insight will have you dumbfounded.
Although we move his Unitarian beliefs to the Non-Traditional Forum, in reality his beliefs are far older than you all's Protestant theology. His heresy goes back 2000 years to Arius as such you proponents of European-crafted Christianity, who's theology is relatively new, probably aren't used to dealing with such old school heresies.
Just stay sharp and stay rooted. Our Brother Insight is well-versed in his faith.

Lighthammer is correct in quoting my beliefs are 2000 years old, however his claims to their origin is far from centre.  My beliefs and their source are directly from the Apostle Paul himself, who was in turn taught by Jesus Christ himself.

One might say I am a third generation believer  

Let's take Benmark's first point as a test of Lighthammer remarks.

1) Jesus was not unclean until he took on the sin of the world and Gods wrath was released upon him and not us.

This reeks of the substitution theology which aims to satisfy an angry God.   Let's deal with the first part of Benmarks comment.

Very few Christians here Lighthammer would give these marvellous lessons the time of day nor apply their minds to understand them and no doubt I type in vain but here goes...

"Whatsoever, openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is Mine"

Yahweh decreed this in Exodus 13:2  and was a instruction related to every case where a woman's first child was a male.

If a sister had been born first, the second child was not offered (Luke 2:23). Antitypically, the Lord Jesus, being elevated to the firstborn, was the offering of Yahweh.

No doubt Benmark is lost in the above but we continue in the hope that maybe the message might penetrate the deception that reigns within.

Now when a babe is born of an Israelite, it was unclean:

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Job 14:4

How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Job 25:4

All firstborn sons, born of a woman were unholy, until its circumcision, and after its presentation to the LORD.

"Every male that openeth the womb "shall be

[Insight]

That's a big post.

Tell me how you explain this.

Right from Adam there was his nature passed down. The sins of the father Mary had the Holy Spirit overshadow her so there was no inherited sin nature in his flesh soul or spirit.

He was completely clean

You fail to understand two clear points.

1 Mary was a sinner and her son was born with her nature (see Matt 1:1 for connection) Jesus was the son of sinners! i.e Son of Man.

2. The conception was holy not the birth. The birth was no different to any other babe born in Israel.  Mary was unclean afterwards and so was Jesus, until he was circumcised and offered appropriately. However his nature was always viewed as unclean as death reign in his members.

Proof text:

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Go and learn what this means:

What happened when one touched death under the law?

[bemark]

Could you answer also why Did sin enter through Adam and not Eve.Yes I will look up those points as well

[Insight]

Could you answer also why Did sin enter through Adam and not Eve.Yes I will look up those points as well

Good question!

Proof Text's

[bemark]

Sorry insight I don't see Jesus as a sinner or had the sin nature passed down from Adam through Mary .I believe that he could and did make choices in his earthy frame.

Was the honey the unclean thing in the dead lion.

You are saying because it was in there it makes it so by default ?

The circumcision along with the Baptism would have been to fulfill Gods word and fulfill all righteousness.Why was John freaking out so much?

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?" 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him
Matt 3:13-15 (NKJV)

And the Adam and Eve thing still leaves me thinking why the Male.They both received Judgement but it does gets passed down through the Male.

[Insight]

Sorry insight I don't see Jesus as a sinner

Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!

or had the sin nature passed down from Adam through Mary .

This is a statement of denial.

I believe that he could and did make choices in his earthy frame.

This is a contradiction to your above statement – this often happens when one is seeking to uphold church doctrine and not allowing the Word to guide them into truth.

Was the honey the unclean thing in the dead lion.

I doubt you understand the lessons hidden there gauging from this misapplied connection.

You are saying because it was in there it makes it so by default ?


The circumcision along with the Baptism would have been to fulfill Gods word and fulfill all righteousness.Why was John freaking out so much?

Yes it comfortable to distance these acts of obedience away from Jesus himself and thereby removing any personal need of his.

Very dangerous as you have remove his intimate involvement in not only redeeming himself from death's dominion but removed yourself from his offering.

Salvation is immediately lost should one hold to these beliefs.

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?" 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him

Matt 3:13-15 (NKJV)

Luke 12:50 speaks to the agony every day of his life in being baptised through fire.  You may not understand how Jesus suffered...it's a façade of pretence which leads you to not identify with his sufferings in the flesh as being real – for how can an all-powerful God suffering in weak feeble flesh. All his prayers for deliverance we not valid because he was actual very God.    

You believe in the great hoax known to man.

Imagine that for a moment!

And the Adam and Eve thing still leaves me thinking why the Male. They both received Judgement but it does gets passed down through the Male.

Because one Adam symbolises a nature prone to sin and death and the second Adam symbolise the victory over deaths power.

That's why Jesus was born of a woman (sinner) and is called the son of Abraham and David.

But these lessons are lost to you while you hold firmly to Trinitarian doctrine.

Forever dark.

Insight

[bemark]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?