The Thing I Greatly Feared

[LightHammer]

Stay sharp.

[bemark]

And have fun doing it.:)

Insight you got me opening up the word all over the place and your comments towards me in places sure did bring a smile to my face.Bless you all



C U all later.

[Insight]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

[LightHammer]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Haha don't try to bait me with these sideways Chicago-style remarks. If you want to dialogue all you have to do is make thread and ask.

[Insight]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Haha don't try to bait me with these sideways Chicago-style remarks. If you want to dialogue all you have to do is make thread and ask.

Stay sharp!

[LightHammer]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Haha don't try to bait me with these sideways Chicago-style remarks. If you want to dialogue all you have to do is make thread and ask.

Stay sharp!

Whoa whoa I want 25 cents every time you say that phrase.lol

[Insight]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Haha don't try to bait me with these sideways Chicago-style remarks. If you want to dialogue all you have to do is make thread and ask.

Stay sharp!

Whoa whoa I want 25 cents every time you say that phrase.lol

I borrowed it thank you 

[Insight]

But lets stay focused also!

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

[LightHammer]

But lets stay focused also!

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Well first off the verse is not saying the high priest offers on his own behalf. It is simply saying that he must have something to offer.

You're misreading the quote but if you check Hebrews you will see where Christ as High Priest does nothing for Hinself but for us. So basically you point voided due to improper comprehension on the verse is proven false even when considered worthy of further scrutiny.

[Insight]

Of course the phrase "this man" is referring to Jesus himself.

Heb 5:7 may have something to do with it?

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Did Jesus need redemption?

I can hear you all shout YES!

But he never needed reconciling! For obvious reasons.  

[Insight]

But lets stay focused also!

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

Well first off the verse is not saying the high priest offers on his own behalf. It is simply saying that he must have something to offer.

You're misreading the quote but if you check Hebrews you will see where Christ as High Priest does nothing for Hinself but for us. So basically you point voided due to improper comprehension on the verse is proven false even when considered worthy of further scrutiny.

(Jesus) who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 7:27

How many times did he offer for himself?
How many times did he offer for the people?

If you answered once you would be correct.

insight

[Insight]

"He (Jesus) put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Heb. 9:26).

What else did he put away "in" his body?

[Insight]

When the nature of Christ is fully understood the Trinity falls away very quickly as how can you have God in His Holiness dwelling in sin's flesh?

You could ask no Christian to believe such an abhorrent teaching as the Father dwelling in the unclean.

Unclean to mean:

1. Born of a woman (from the womb)

2. Covered in blood both mother and child

3. Circumcised on the eight day - cutting away the flesh of his nature!

4. Baptism - showing forth the manner of crucifying his fleshly desires every day until he finally allowed his body to be crucified on a tree

5. Touching death he became unclean but God did the following:

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Maybe now dear readers you will understand how it can be said of Jesus -

He is the firstborn of many brothers and sisters....

Insight

[Insight]

Gospel,

As you know we answered this posts OP here at:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/job-chastening-and-perfecting-a-son-of-god/75/

I am conscious this thread has somewhat been hijack but for good reason.

Insight

[bemark]

"Jesus was not a sinner (morally speaking)!"


Well what do you mean by that.Did he commit any sins?

And if so what where they?

Bemark,

No he did not commit sins but as Paul said Jesus had "need" to offer of himself and not just for you.

I am guiding you ever so gently to see what that "need" was.

For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Lighthammer will not venture into this verse as he knows where it leads and if accepted his theology will fall apart very quickly.

You must explain to me what Paul here means by Jesus needing to offer something for himself?

Insight

23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Heb 7:22-28 (NKJV)

He offered up himself as he was holy harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners.


The second part was the other priests as they where defiled so had to sort themselves out first.

[bemark]

19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
1 Peter 1:19-20 (NKJV)

Also this one as well

[bemark]

And the sins came upon him when he was on the tree

21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin,

Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
1 Peter 2:21-25 (NKJV)

[bemark]

And the Baby unclean thing got me thinking as well but then we have this as well

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Cor 5:20-21 (NKJV)

[Insight]

Bemark,

You are quoting passages of what Jesus "became" rather than looking at what he 'overcame'.

There is little point in going any further or deeper into the Word if you will deny he overcame sins flesh.

You behold a victorious Christ but deny exactly what he became victorious over? 

Until you can aptly explain his enemy (Gal 4:4; Matt 1:1; *Gal 5:24) you will continue to fool yourself into thinking you know Jesus when the reality is you will never get close to him with this current mindset.

From my perspective you are approaching the passages with Trinity in mind and trying to make sense of them through these dark filters.

The results will be a blurred vision.

Insight

[Insight]

19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
1 Peter 1:19-20 (NKJV)

Also this one as well

Again you have shown the clean nature of his blood after he crucified the flesh and its lusts.

What did he personally overcome to provide us cleansing blood?

Why does the blood now have power to save?

What was achieved in his body and blood?

Much for you to consider.

Insight

[Insight]

And the Baby unclean thing got me thinking as well but then we have this as well

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Cor 5:20-21 (NKJV)

This passage is showing you that God made him to be flesh (sin) for us.  He raised up a son through a fallen and cursed stock of people - read Matt 1:1 why Son of Sinners?

Amazing how few Christians don't even understands the first verse of the New Testament and yet they think they know the Gospel.

[Insight]

And the sins came upon him when he was on the tree

21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin,

Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
1 Peter 2:21-25 (NKJV)

Answer me this Bemark and dont be shy...

How did Jesus bore our sins in His own body on the tree?

Explain exactly how this was achieved in the body of Jesus Christ

I look forward to your answer!

insight

[bemark]

And the Baby unclean thing got me thinking as well but then we have this as well

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Cor 5:20-21 (NKJV)

This passage is showing you that God made him to be flesh (sin) for us.  He raised up a son through a fallen and cursed stock of people - read Matt 1:1 why Son of Sinners?

Amazing how few Christians don't even understands the first verse of the New Testament and yet they think they know the Gospel.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this as well




1. The book of the generation. This is the proper title of the chapter. It is the same as to say, "The account of the ancestry or family, or the genealogical table of Jesus Christ." The phrase is common in Jewish writings. Compare Genesis 5:1, "This is the book of the generations of Adam," that is, the genealogical table of the family or descendants of Adam. See also Genesis 6:9. The Jews, moreover, as we do, kept such tables of their own families, and it is probable that this was copied from the record of the family of Joseph.

Jesus. See Matthew 1:21.

Christ. The word Christ is a Greek word, Χριστός Christos, signifying anointed. The Hebrew word ‏מַשִּיחַ‎ mâshîyach signifying the same is Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called either the Messiah, or the Christ, meaning the same thing. The Jews speak of the Messiah; Christians speak of him as the Christ. Anciently, when kings and priests were set apart to their office, they were anointed with oil, Leviticus 4:3, 6:20, Exodus 28:41, 29:7, 1 Samuel 9:16, 15:1, 2 Samuel 23:1. To anoint, therefore, means often the same as to consecrate, or set apart to any office. Thence those thus set apart are said to be anointed, or the anointed of God. It is for this reason that the name is given to the Lord Jesus, Daniel 9:24. He was set apart by God to be the King, and High Priest, and Prophet of his people. Anointing with oil was, moreover, supposed to be emblematic of the influences of the Holy Spirit; and as God gave him the Spirit without measure, (John 3:34) so he is called peculiarly the Anointed of God.

The Son of David, The word son, among the Jews, had a great variety of significations. It means, literally, a son; then a grandson; a descendant; an adopted son; a disciple, or one who is an object of tender affection-one who is to us as a son. In this place it means a descendant of David; or one who was of the family of David. It was important to trace the genealogy of Jesus up to David, because the promise had been made that the Messiah should be of his family, and all the Jews expected it would be so. It would be impossible, therefore, to convince a Jew that Jesus was the Messiah, unless it could be shown that he was descended from David. See Jeremiah 23:5 Psalms 132:10,11; compared with Acts 13:23, John 7:42.

The Son of Abraham. The descendant of Abraham. The promise was made to Abraham also. See Genesis 12:3; 21:12; comp. Hebrews 11:13; Galatians 3:16. The Jews expected that the Messiah would be descended from him; and it was important, therefore, to trace the genealogy up to him also. Though Jesus was of humble birth, yet he was descended from most illustrious ancestors. Abraham, the father of the faithful-" the beauteous model of an eastern prince,"-and David, the sweet psalmist of Israel, the conqueror, the magnificent and victorious leader of the people of God, were both among his ancestors. From these two persons, the most eminent for piety, and the most renowned for their excellencies of all the men of antiquity, sacred or profane, the Lord Jesus was descended; and though his birth and life were humble, yet they who regard an illustrious descent as of value, may find here all that is to be admired in piety, purity, patriotism, splendour, dignity, and renown.

(*) "generation of Jesus Christ" Luke 3:33
(*) "son of David" Psalms 132:11, Matthew 22:45, Acts 2:30
(*) "son of Abraham" Genesis 22:18, Galatians 3:16
—Barnes' Notes on the New Testament

[Insight]

And the Baby unclean thing got me thinking as well but then we have this as well

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Cor 5:20-21 (NKJV)

This passage is showing you that God made him to be flesh (sin) for us.  He raised up a son through a fallen and cursed stock of people - read Matt 1:1 why Son of Sinners?

Amazing how few Christians don't even understands the first verse of the New Testament and yet they think they know the Gospel.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this as well




1. The book of the generation. This is the proper title of the chapter. It is the same as to say, "The account of the ancestry or family, or the genealogical table of Jesus Christ." The phrase is common in Jewish writings. Compare Genesis 5:1, "This is the book of the generations of Adam," that is, the genealogical table of the family or descendants of Adam. See also Genesis 6:9. The Jews, moreover, as we do, kept such tables of their own families, and it is probable that this was copied from the record of the family of Joseph.

Jesus. See Matthew 1:21.

Christ. The word Christ is a Greek word, Χριστός Christos, signifying anointed. The Hebrew word ‏מַשִּיחַ‎ mâshîyach signifying the same is Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called either the Messiah, or the Christ, meaning the same thing. The Jews speak of the Messiah; Christians speak of him as the Christ. Anciently, when kings and priests were set apart to their office, they were anointed with oil, Leviticus 4:3, 6:20, Exodus 28:41, 29:7, 1 Samuel 9:16, 15:1, 2 Samuel 23:1. To anoint, therefore, means often the same as to consecrate, or set apart to any office. Thence those thus set apart are said to be anointed, or the anointed of God. It is for this reason that the name is given to the Lord Jesus, Daniel 9:24. He was set apart by God to be the King, and High Priest, and Prophet of his people. Anointing with oil was, moreover, supposed to be emblematic of the influences of the Holy Spirit; and as God gave him the Spirit without measure, (John 3:34) so he is called peculiarly the Anointed of God.

The Son of David, The word son, among the Jews, had a great variety of significations. It means, literally, a son; then a grandson; a descendant; an adopted son; a disciple, or one who is an object of tender affection-one who is to us as a son. In this place it means a descendant of David; or one who was of the family of David. It was important to trace the genealogy of Jesus up to David, because the promise had been made that the Messiah should be of his family, and all the Jews expected it would be so. It would be impossible, therefore, to convince a Jew that Jesus was the Messiah, unless it could be shown that he was descended from David. See Jeremiah 23:5 Psalms 132:10,11; compared with Acts 13:23, John 7:42.

The Son of Abraham. The descendant of Abraham. The promise was made to Abraham also. See Genesis 12:3; 21:12; comp. Hebrews 11:13; Galatians 3:16. The Jews expected that the Messiah would be descended from him; and it was important, therefore, to trace the genealogy up to him also. Though Jesus was of humble birth, yet he was descended from most illustrious ancestors. Abraham, the father of the faithful-" the beauteous model of an eastern prince,"-and David, the sweet psalmist of Israel, the conqueror, the magnificent and victorious leader of the people of God, were both among his ancestors. From these two persons, the most eminent for piety, and the most renowned for their excellencies of all the men of antiquity, sacred or profane, the Lord Jesus was descended; and though his birth and life were humble, yet they who regard an illustrious descent as of value, may find here all that is to be admired in piety, purity, patriotism, splendour, dignity, and renown.

(*) "generation of Jesus Christ" Luke 3:33
(*) "son of David" Psalms 132:11, Matthew 22:45, Acts 2:30
(*) "son of Abraham" Genesis 22:18, Galatians 3:16
—Barnes' Notes on the New Testament

Bemark, I do not know where you got this work from but did you notice they could not bring themselves to admit both Abraham and David were sinners and that Jesus was raised up out of their seed?

They use terms like "a descendant"  AND "It was important to trace the genealogy of Jesus up to David! and yet what does Paul draw your attention too you ask?

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom 1:3

Maybe you should try thinking for yourself.

Insight

[Insight]

Bemark,

What type of flesh did Jesus have?

Could it be tempted?
Could it sin?
Could it die of old age?
Could it hunger?
Could it thirst?
Could it feel pain and sorrow?
Could it suffer?

And what body has the Lord today seeing his hands and feet still bare the nail marks?

More for you to ponder!

Insight

[bemark]

Bemark,

What type of flesh did Jesus have?

Could it be tempted?
Could it sin?
Could it die of old age?
Could it hunger?
Could it thirst?
Could it feel pain and sorrow?
Could it suffer?

And what body has the Lord today seeing his hands and feet still bare the nail marks?

More for you to ponder!

Insight

Yeah of coarse he could be tempted and was made like us but with no sin , but he also gave us a key to how not to enter temptation.He never opened the door and walked in and where there is no open door no one else can enter as well.He the devil has nothing in him.By prayer he endured but the disciples that where with him fell asleep under the weight of it.

39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him. 40 When He came to the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." 41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.[8
Luke 22:39-44 (NKJV)

[Jimmy]

Bemark,

What type of flesh did Jesus have?

Could it be tempted?
Could it sin?
Could it die of old age?
Could it hunger?
Could it thirst?
Could it feel pain and sorrow?
Could it suffer?

And what body has the Lord today seeing his hands and feet still bare the nail marks?

More for you to ponder!

Insight

Do you think there is a physical throne in Heaven that Jesus is sitting on?  How about God?  Is He a physical entity also sitting on His throne with Jesus sitting at His right hand?

[bemark]

And the Baby unclean thing got me thinking as well but then we have this as well

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Cor 5:20-21 (NKJV)

This passage is showing you that God made him to be flesh (sin) for us.  He raised up a son through a fallen and cursed stock of people - read Matt 1:1 why Son of Sinners?

Amazing how few Christians don't even understands the first verse of the New Testament and yet they think they know the Gospel.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this as well




1. The book of the generation. This is the proper title of the chapter. It is the same as to say, "The account of the ancestry or family, or the genealogical table of Jesus Christ." The phrase is common in Jewish writings. Compare Genesis 5:1, "This is the book of the generations of Adam," that is, the genealogical table of the family or descendants of Adam. See also Genesis 6:9. The Jews, moreover, as we do, kept such tables of their own families, and it is probable that this was copied from the record of the family of Joseph.

Jesus. See Matthew 1:21.

Christ. The word Christ is a Greek word, Χριστός Christos, signifying anointed. The Hebrew word ‏מַשִּיחַ‎ mâshîyach signifying the same is Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called either the Messiah, or the Christ, meaning the same thing. The Jews speak of the Messiah; Christians speak of him as the Christ. Anciently, when kings and priests were set apart to their office, they were anointed with oil, Leviticus 4:3, 6:20, Exodus 28:41, 29:7, 1 Samuel 9:16, 15:1, 2 Samuel 23:1. To anoint, therefore, means often the same as to consecrate, or set apart to any office. Thence those thus set apart are said to be anointed, or the anointed of God. It is for this reason that the name is given to the Lord Jesus, Daniel 9:24. He was set apart by God to be the King, and High Priest, and Prophet of his people. Anointing with oil was, moreover, supposed to be emblematic of the influences of the Holy Spirit; and as God gave him the Spirit without measure, (John 3:34) so he is called peculiarly the Anointed of God.

The Son of David, The word son, among the Jews, had a great variety of significations. It means, literally, a son; then a grandson; a descendant; an adopted son; a disciple, or one who is an object of tender affection-one who is to us as a son. In this place it means a descendant of David; or one who was of the family of David. It was important to trace the genealogy of Jesus up to David, because the promise had been made that the Messiah should be of his family, and all the Jews expected it would be so. It would be impossible, therefore, to convince a Jew that Jesus was the Messiah, unless it could be shown that he was descended from David. See Jeremiah 23:5 Psalms 132:10,11; compared with Acts 13:23, John 7:42.

The Son of Abraham. The descendant of Abraham. The promise was made to Abraham also. See Genesis 12:3; 21:12; comp. Hebrews 11:13; Galatians 3:16. The Jews expected that the Messiah would be descended from him; and it was important, therefore, to trace the genealogy up to him also. Though Jesus was of humble birth, yet he was descended from most illustrious ancestors. Abraham, the father of the faithful-" the beauteous model of an eastern prince,"-and David, the sweet psalmist of Israel, the conqueror, the magnificent and victorious leader of the people of God, were both among his ancestors. From these two persons, the most eminent for piety, and the most renowned for their excellencies of all the men of antiquity, sacred or profane, the Lord Jesus was descended; and though his birth and life were humble, yet they who regard an illustrious descent as of value, may find here all that is to be admired in piety, purity, patriotism, splendour, dignity, and renown.

(*) "generation of Jesus Christ" Luke 3:33
(*) "son of David" Psalms 132:11, Matthew 22:45, Acts 2:30
(*) "son of Abraham" Genesis 22:18, Galatians 3:16
—Barnes' Notes on the New Testament

Bemark, I do not know where you got this work from but did you notice they could not bring themselves to admit both Abraham and David were sinners and that Jesus was raised up out of their seed?

They use terms like "a descendant"  AND "It was important to trace the genealogy of Jesus up to David! and yet what does Paul draw your attention too you ask?

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom 1:3

Maybe you should try thinking for yourself.

Insight

Yes but sometimes its just good to cut and paste.

Verse 3. Concerning his Son. This is connected with the first verse, with the word gospel. The gospel of God concerning his Son. The design of the gospel was to make a communication relative to his Son Jesus Christ. This is the whole of it. There is no good news to man respecting salvation except that which comes by Jesus Christ.

Which was made. The word translated was made means, usually, to be, or to become. It is used, however, in the sense of being born. Thus, Galatians 4:4, "God sent forth his Son made of a woman," born of a woman. John 8:58, "Before Abraham was [born,] I am." In this sense it seems to be used here-who was born, or descended from the seed of David.

Of the seed of David. Of the posterity or lineage of David. He was a descendant of David. David was perhaps the most illustrious of the kings of Israel. The promise to him was, that there should not fail a man to sit on his throne, 1 Kings 2:4, 8:25, 9:5, 2 Chronicles 6:16. This ancient promise was understood as referring to the Messiah; and hence in the New Testament he is called the descendant of David, and so much pains is taken to show that he was of his line, Luke 1:27, Matthew 9:27, 15:22, 12:23 Matthew 21:9,15, 22:42,45, John 7:42, 2 Timothy 2:8. As the Jews universally believed that the Messiah would be descended from David, John 7:42, it was of great importance for the sacred writers to make it out clearly that Jesus of Nazareth was of that line and family. Hence it happened, that though our Saviour was humble, and poor, and obscure, yet he had that on which no small part of the world have been accustomed so much to pride themselves-an illustrious ancestry. To a Jew there could be scarcely any honour so high as to be descended from the best of their kings; and it shows how little the Lord Jesus esteemed the honours of this world, that he could always evince his deep humility in circumstances where men are usually proud; and that when he spoke of the honours of this world, and told how little they were worth, he was not denouncing that which was not within his reach.

According to the flesh. The word flesh-σαρξ-is used in the Scriptures in a great variety of significations.

(1.) It denotes, as with us, the flesh literally of any living being. Luke 24:39, "A spirit hath not flesh and bones," etc.

(2.) The animal system, the body, including flesh and bones, the visible part of man, in distinction from the invisible, or the soul. Acts 2:31, "Neither did his flesh" (his body) "see corruption." 1 Corinthians 5:5, 15:39.

(3.) The man, the whole animated system, body and soul. Romans 8:3, "In the likeness of sinful flesh." 1 Corinthians 15:50; Matthew 16:17; Luke 3:6.

(4.) Human nature. As a man. Thus, Acts 2:30, "God had sworn with an oath that of the fruit of his loins according to the flesh, [i.e., in his human nature,] he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne." Romans 9:5, "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever." The same is its meaning here. He was a descendant of David in his human nature, or as a man. This implies, of course, that he had another nature besides his human; or that, while he was a man, he was also something else; that there was a nature in which he was not descended from David. That this is its meaning will still further appear by the following observations.

(1.) The apostle expressly makes a contrast between his condition according to the flesh, and that according to the spirit of holiness.

(2.) The expression, "according to the flesh," is applied to no other one in the New Testament but to Jesus Christ. Though the word flesh often occurs, and is often used to denote man, yet the peculiar expression according to the flesh occurs in no other connexion. In all the Scriptures it is never said of any prophet or apostle, any lawgiver or king, or any man in any capacity, that he came in the flesh, or that he was descended from certain ancestors according to the flesh. Nor is such an expression ever used anywhere else. If it were applied to a mere man, we should instantly ask in what other way could he come than in the flesh? Has he a higher nature? Is he an angel, or a seraph? The expression would be unmeaning. And when, therefore, it is applied to Jesus Christ, it implies, if language has any meaning, that there was a sense in which Jesus was not descended from David. What that was appears in the next verse.

(*) "was made" Psalms 89:36

—Barnes' Notes on the New Testament

[bemark]

Verse 4. And declared. In the margin, determined. τουορισθεντος. The ancient Syriac has, "And he was known to be the Son of God by might and by the Holy Spirit, who rose from the house of the dead." The Latin Vulgate, "Who was predestinated the Son of God," etc. The Arabic, "The Son of God destined by power peculiar to the Holy Spirit," etc. The word translated "declared to be" means, properly, to bound, to fix limits to, as to a field, to determine its proper limits or boundaries, to define, etc. Acts 17:26, "And hath determined the bounds of their habitation." Hence it means, to determine, constitute, ordain, decree; i.e., to fix or designate the proper boundaries of a truth, or a doctrine; to distinguish its lines and marks from error; or to show or declare a thing to be so by any action. Luke 22:22, "The Son of man goeth as it was determined," as it was fixed, purposed, defined, in the purpose of God, and declared in the prophets. Acts 2:23, "Him being delivered by the determinate counsel," the definite, constituted will, or design of God. Acts 4:28, Hebrews 4:7, "He limiteth a certain day," fixes it, defines it. In this sense it is clearly used in this place. The act of raising him from the dead designated him, or constituted him the Son of God. It was such an act as in the circumstances of the case showed that he was the Son of God in regard to a nature which was not "according to the flesh." The ordinary resurrection of a man, like that of Lazarus, would not show that he was the Son of God; but in the circumstances of Jesus Christ it did; for he had claimed to be so; he had taught it; and God now attested the truth of his teaching by raising him from the dead.

The Son of God. The word son is used in a great variety of senses, denoting literally a son, then a descendant, posterity near or remote, a disciple or ward, an adopted son, or one that imitates or resembles another. Matthew 1:1. The expression sons of God, or son of God, is used in an almost equal latitude of signification. It is

(1.) applied to Adam, as being immediately created by God, without an earthly father, Luke 3:38.

(2.) It is applied to saints or Christians, as being adopted into his family, and sustaining to him the relation of children, John 1:12,13; 1 John 3:1,2, etc. This name is given to them because they resemble him in their moral character, Matthew 5:45.

(3.) It is given to strong men as resembling God in strength. Genesis 6:2, "The sons of God saw the daughters of men," etc. Here these men of violence and strength are called sons of God, just as the high hills are called hills of God, the lofty trees of Lebanon are called cedars of God, etc.

(4.) Kings are sometimes called his sons, as resembling him in dominion and power, Psalms 82:6.

(5.) The name is given to angels, because they resemble God; because he is their Creator and Father, etc., Job 1:6, 2:1, Daniel 3:25.

But the name The Son of God is, in the New Testament, given by way of eminence to the Lord Jesus Christ. This was the common and favourite name by which the apostles designated him. The expression Son of God is applied to him no less than twenty-seven times in the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, and fifteen times in the Epistles and the Revelation. The expression my Son, and his Son, thy Son, etc., is applied to him in his peculiar relation to God, times almost without number. The other most common appellation which is given to him is Son of man. By this name he commonly designated himself. There can be no doubt that that was assumed to denote that he was a man, that he sustained a peculiar relation to man, and that he chose to speak of himself as a man. The first, the most obvious, impression on the use of the name Son of man is, that he was truly a man; and it was used, doubtless, to guard against the impression that one who manifested so many other qualities, and did so many things like a celestial being, was not truly a human being. The phrase Son of God stands in contrast with the title Son of man; and as the natural and obvious import of that is that he was a man, so the natural and obvious import of the title Son of God is that he was Divine; or that he sustained relations to God, designated by the name Son of God, corresponding to the relations which he sustained to man, designated by the name Son of Man. The natural idea of the term Son of God therefore is, that he sustained a relation to God in his nature which implied more than was human or angelic; which implied equality with God. Accordingly, this idea was naturally suggested to the Jews by his calling God his Father: John 5:18, "But said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." This idea Jesus immediately proceeded to confirm. John 5:19 and John 5:20-30. The same idea is also suggested in John 10:29,30,31,33,36, "Say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, thou blasphemest: because I said I am the Son of God?" There is, in these places, the fullest proof that the title suggested naturally the idea of equality with God; or the idea of his sustaining a relation to God corresponding to the relation of equality to man, suggested by the title Son of man. This view is still further sustained in the first chapter of the epistle to the Hebrews, Hebrews 1:1,2. God hath spoken unto us by his son. He is the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, Hebrews 1:3. He is higher than the angels, and they are required to worship him, Hebrews 1:4,5,6. He is called God, and his throne is for ever and ever, Hebrews 1:8. He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and is immutably the same, Hebrews 1:10-12. Thus the rank, or title, of the Son of God, suggests the ideas and attributes of the Divinity. This idea is sustained throughout the New Testament. See John 14:9, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father;" John 5:23, "That all men should honour the Son even as they honour the father." Colossians 1:19, "It hath pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" Colossians 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Philippians 2:2-11, Revelation 5:13,14; Revelation 21:23. It is not affirmed that this title was given to the Second Person of the Trinity before he became incarnate, or to suggest the idea of any derivation or extraction before he was made flesh. There is no instance in which the appellation is not conferred to express the relation after he assumed human flesh. Of any derivation from God, or emanation from him in eternity, the Scriptures are silent. The title is conferred on him, it is supposed, with reference to his condition in this world as the Messiah. And it is conferred, it is believed, for the following reasons, or to denote the following thing, viz:

(1.) To designate his peculiar relation to God, as equal with him, (John 1:14,18, Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, 3:22, 2 Peter 1:17;) or as sustaining a most intimate and close connexion with him, such as neither man nor angels could do-an acquaintance with his nature, (Matthew 11:27,) plans, and counsels, such as no being but one who was equal with God could possess. In this sense I regard it as conferred on him in the passage under consideration.

(2.) It designates him as the anointed King, or the Messiah. In this sense it accords with the use of the word in Psalms 82:6. See Matthew 16:16, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 26:63, "I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God." Mark 14:61; Luke 22:70, John 1:34, Acts 9:20, "He preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."

(3.) It was conferred on him to denote his miraculous conception in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Luke 1:35, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, THEREFORE (διο) also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

With power. ενδυναμει. By some, this expression has been supposed to mean in power or authority, after his resurrection from the dead. It is said, that he was before a man of sorrows; now he was clothed with power and authority. But I have seen no instance in which the expression in power denotes office, or authority. It denotes physical energy and might-and this was bestowed on Jesus before his resurrection as well as after. Acts 10:38, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost, and with power." Romans 15:19, 1 Corinthians 15:43. With such power Jesus will come to judgment, Matthew 24:30. If there is any passage in which the word power means authority, office, etc., it is Matthew 28:18, "All power in heaven and earth is given unto me." But this is not a power which was given unto him after his resurrection, or which he did not possess before. The same authority to commission his disciples he had exercised before this on the same ground, Matthew 10:7,8. I am inclined to believe, therefore, that the expression means powerfully, efficiently; he was with great power, or conclusiveness, shown to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead. Thus the phrase in power is used to qualify a verb in Colossians 1:29, "Which worketh in me mightily"-Greek, in power i.e., operating in me effectually, or powerfully. The ancient versions seem to have understood it in the same way. Syriac, "He was known to be the Son of God by power, and by the Holy Ghost." AEthiopic, "Whom he declared to be the Son of God by his own power, and by his Holy Spirit," etc. Arabic, "Designated the Son of God by power appropriate to the Holy Spirit."

According to the spirit of holiness. Κατὰ πνεῦμα ἁγιωσύνης. This expression has been variously understood. We may arrive at its meaning by the following considerations.

(1.) It is not the Third Person in the Trinity that is referred to here. The designation of that person is always in a different form. It is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost—πνεῦμα ἅγιον, or τὸ πνεῦμα το ἅγιον; never the Spirit of holiness.

(2.) It stands in contrast with the flesh, Romans 1:3, "According to the flesh, the seed of David: according to the spirit of holiness, the Son of God." As the former refers doubtless to his human nature, so this must refer to the nature designated by the title Son of God, that is, to his superior or Divine nature.

(3.) The expression is altogether peculiar to the Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Scriptures, or in any other writings, is there an affirmation like this. What would be meant by it if affirmed of a mere man?

(4.) It cannot mean that the Holy Spirit, the Third Person in the Trinity, showed that Jesus was the Son of God by raising him from the dead, because that act is nowhere attributed to him. It is uniformly ascribed either to God, as God, (Acts 2:24,32, 3:15,26, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30,33,34, 17:31, Romans 10:9; Ephesians 1:20,) or to the rather, (Romans 6:4,) or to Jesus himself, (John 10:18.) In no instance is this act ascribed to the Holy Ghost.

(5.) It indicates a state far more elevated than any human dignity, or honour. In regard to his earthly descent, he was of a royal race; in regard to the Spirit of holiness, much more than that, he was the Son of God.

(6.) The word Spirit is used often to designate God, the holy God, as distinguished from all the material forms of idol worship, John 4:24.

(7.) The word Spirit is applied to the Messiah in his more elevated or Divine nature. 1 Corinthians 15:45, "The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:17, "Now the Lord (Jesus) is that Spirit." Hebrews 9:14, Christ is said to have "offered himself through the eternal Spirit." 1 Peter 3:18, he is said to have been "put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." 1 Timothy 3:16, he is said to have been "justified in the Spirit." In most of these passages there is the same contrast noticed between his flesh, his human nature, and his other state, which occurs in Romans 1:3,4. In all these instances, the design is, doubtless, to speak of him as a man, and as something more than a man; he was one thing as a man; he was another thing in his other nature. In the one, he was of David; was put to death, etc. In the other, he was of God; he was manifested to be such; he was restored to the elevation which he had sustained before his incarnation and death, John 17:1-5, Philippians 2:2-11. The expression, according to the spirit of holiness, does not indeed of itself imply Divinity. It denotes that holy and more exalted nature which he possessed as distinguished from the human. What that is, is to be learned from other declarations. This expression implies simply that it was such as to make proper the appellation, the Son of God. Other places, as we have seen, show that that designation naturally implied Divinity. And that this was the true idea couched under the expression, according to the spirit of holiness, appears from those numerous texts of Scripture which explicitly assert his Divinity. See John 1:1, etc., and John 1:1.

By the resurrection from the dead. This has been also variously understood. Some have maintained that the word by-εξ-denotes AFTER. He was declared to be the Son of God in power after he rose from the dead; that is, he was solemnly invested with the dignity that became the Son of God after he had been so long in a state of voluntary humiliation. But to this view there are some insuperable objections.

(1.) It is not the natural and usual meaning of the word by.

(2.) It is not the object of the apostle to state the time when the thing was done, or the order, but evidently to declare the fact, and the evidence of the fact. If such had been his design, he would have said, that previous to his death he was shown to be of the seed of David, but afterwards that he was invested with power.

(3.) Though it must be admitted that the preposition by εξ sometimes means AFTER, (Matthew 19:20, Luke 8:27, 23:8) yet its proper and usual meaning is to denote the efficient cause, or the agent, or origin of a thing. Matthew 1:3,18, 21:25, John 3:5, Romans 5:16, Romans 11:36. "Of him are all things." 1 Corinthians 8:6, "One God, the Father, of whom are all things," etc. In this sense I suppose it is used here; and that the apostle means to affirm that he was clearly or decisively shown to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead. But here it will be asked, how did his resurrection show this? Was not Lazarus raised from the dead? And did not many saints rise also after Jesus? And were not the dead raised by the apostles, by Elijah, by the bones of Elisha, and by Christ himself? And did their being raised prove that they were the sons of God? I answer, that the mere fact of the resurrection of the body proves nothing in itself about the character and rank of the being that is raised. But in the circumstances in which Jesus was placed it might show it conclusively. When Lazarus was raised, it was not in attestation of anything which he had taught or done. It was a mere display of the power and benevolence of Christ. But, in regard to the resurrection of Jesus, let the following circumstances be taken into the account.

(1.) He came as the Messiah.

(2.) He uniformly taught that he was the Son of God.

(3.) He maintained that God was his Father in such a sense as to imply equality with him, John 5:17-30; 10:36.

(4.) He claimed authority to abolish the laws of the Jews, to change their customs, and to be himself absolved from the observance of those laws, even as his Father was, John 5:1-17; Mark 2:28.

(5.) When God raised Him up, therefore, it was not an ordinary event. It was a public attestation, in the face of the universe, of the truth of his claims to be the Son of God. God would not sanction the doings and doctrines of an impostor. And when, therefore, he raised up Jesus, he, by this act, showed the truth of his claims, that he was the Son of God. Further; in the view of the apostles, the resurrection was intimately connected with the ascension and exaltation of Jesus. The one made the other certain. And it is not improbable that, when they spoke of his resurrection, they meant to include not merely that single act, but the entire series of doings of which that was the first, and which was the pledge of the elevation and majesty of the Son of God. Hence, when they had proved his resurrection, they assumed that all the others would follow. That involved and supposed all And the series, of which that was the first, proved that he was the Son of God. See Acts 17:31: "He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained, whereof he hath given ASSURANCE, unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." The one involves the other. See Acts 1:6. Thus Peter, (Acts 2:22-32) having proved that Jesus was raised up, adds, Acts 2:33, "THEREFORE being by the right hand exalted, he hath shed forth this," etc.; and Acts 2:36, "THEREFORE let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, Both lord and christ."

This verse is a remarkable instance of the apostle Paul's manner of writing. Having mentioned a subject, his mind seems to catch fire; he presents it in new forms, and amplifies it, until he seems to forget for a time the subject on which he was writing. It is from this cause that his writings abound so with parentheses, and that there is so much difficulty in following and understanding him.

(*) "declared" or "determined"
(*) "to be the Son" Acts 13:33,34, Revelation 1:18
(*) "to the spirit" Hebrews 9:14
—Barnes' Notes on the New Testament

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

You fail to understand two clear points.

1 Mary was a sinner and her son was born with her nature (see Matt 1:1 for connection) Jesus was the son of sinners! i.e Son of Man.

"Nature" (ie Form) is not inherited from the mother in Jewish thinking.  It only comes from the Father.  The mother is thought to contribute substance, or materiality.

This argument fails on this point.

[bemark]

When the nature of Christ is fully understood the Trinity falls away very quickly as how can you have God in His Holiness dwelling in sin's flesh?

You could ask no Christian to believe such an abhorrent teaching as the Father dwelling in the unclean.

Unclean to mean:

1. Born of a woman (from the womb)

2. Covered in blood both mother and child

3. Circumcised on the eight day - cutting away the flesh of his nature!

4. Baptism - showing forth the manner of crucifying his fleshly desires every day until he finally allowed his body to be crucified on a tree

5. Touching death he became unclean but God did the following:

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Maybe now dear readers you will understand how it can be said of Jesus -

He is the firstborn of many brothers and sisters....

Insight

Chapter 12
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled. 5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her customary impurity, and she shall continue in the blood of her purification sixty-six days.
6 'When the days of her purification are fulfilled, whether for a son or a daughter, she shall bring to the priest a lamb of the first year as a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove as a sin offering, to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 7 Then he shall offer it before the Lord, and make atonement for her. And she shall be clean from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who has borne a male or a female. 8 And if she is not able to bring a lamb, then she may bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons--one as a burnt offering and the other as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "
Lev 12:1-8 (NKJV)I couldnt find any sin offering made for the child only the mother.

[bemark]

Also if you know why the difference between male and female?

Male  8days + 33 = 41days

Female 14 + 66 = 80 days

I don't know,  but you may be able to give me some insight.Please just answer it without all the Questions please.

[Insight]

Also if you know why the difference between male and female?

Male  8days + 33 = 41days

Female 14 + 66 = 80 days

I don't know,  but you may be able to give me some insight.Please just answer it without all the Questions please.

Bemark

I am impressed with your research and question.

Before I explain can I ask you to consider what you think it means - many in this forum believe I ask these questions to bait and this is not so.  We find great benefit in exercising our minds in the Word and not taking the easy options.

33 x 2 = 66 (Twice as long)

Insight

[Insight]

When the nature of Christ is fully understood the Trinity falls away very quickly as how can you have God in His Holiness dwelling in sin's flesh?

You could ask no Christian to believe such an abhorrent teaching as the Father dwelling in the unclean.

Unclean to mean:

1. Born of a woman (from the womb)

2. Covered in blood both mother and child

3. Circumcised on the eight day - cutting away the flesh of his nature!

4. Baptism - showing forth the manner of crucifying his fleshly desires every day until he finally allowed his body to be crucified on a tree

5. Touching death he became unclean but God did the following:

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Maybe now dear readers you will understand how it can be said of Jesus -

He is the firstborn of many brothers and sisters....

Insight

Chapter 12
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled. 5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her customary impurity, and she shall continue in the blood of her purification sixty-six days.
6 'When the days of her purification are fulfilled, whether for a son or a daughter, she shall bring to the priest a lamb of the first year as a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove as a sin offering, to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 7 Then he shall offer it before the Lord, and make atonement for her. And she shall be clean from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who has borne a male or a female. 8 And if she is not able to bring a lamb, then she may bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons--one as a burnt offering and the other as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "
Lev 12:1-8 (NKJV)I couldnt find any sin offering made for the child only the mother.

The Child is the offering 

[segell]

Also if you know why the difference between male and female?

Male  8days + 33 = 41days

Female 14 + 66 = 80 days

I don't know,  but you may be able to give me some insight.Please just answer it without all the Questions please.

My experience is that Insight will not answer directly.