January - St. Ambrose of Milan

[LightHammer]

I'm going to share some facts, quotes, links etc. that I come across studying St. Ambrose. He's one of the four Doctors of the western church. If any of you guys feel like sharing anything go right ahead.

[Catholica]

Sounds awesome!  Although the western Church has more than 4 doctors!  Let's have it...

[LightHammer]

I meant one of the original four Doctors of the western church.lol My bad.

[Paulus]

Here's a challenging quote from St Ambrose , LH .

" Not from your own do you bestow upon the poor man , but you make return from what is his . For what has been given as common for the use of all , you appropriate to yourself alone . The earth belongs to all , not to the rich . "

There are many such sayings from the Early Church Fathers , some far more radical than this one .

[LightHammer]

"In these the Church is beautiful. Therefore, God the Word says to her: "Thou art all fair, my love, and there is not a spot in thee,' because sin has been washed away; 'Come hither from Libanus, my spouse, come hither from Libanus; fron the beginning of faith thou shalt pass over and pass on,' because renouncing the world, she passed over temporal things and passed on to Christ. And again God the Word says to her: Why art thou made beautiful and sweet, O love, in thy delights? Thy stature has become like the palm, and thy breasts as clusters of grapes."

The Mysteries, Chapter 7

[trifecta]

Sounds awesome!  Although the western Church has more than 4 doctors!  Let's have it...

I've heard the four doctors thing too, although I can't remember who they are, except Ambrose and Augustine.

In fact, you all (meaning the entire west) get most of your doctrine from Augustine.


We don't use the term doctor in the east.  Not sure why. 
We define church fathers a little different than you do.  You have to be a saint in the eastern world
to be a church father.  Therefore, Origen is not, while he is in the West.

(This really doesn't make much difference, since Origen had an influence on lots of folks who were saints.)

While we don't have doctors, we do have the (top) three hierarchs: John Chrystostom, Gregory of Naziansus, and Basil.

[LightHammer]

Sounds awesome!  Although the western Church has more than 4 doctors!  Let's have it...

I've heard the four doctors thing too, although I can't remember who they are, except Ambrose and Augustine.

In fact, you all (meaning the entire west) get most of your doctrine from Augustine.


We don't use the term doctor in the east.  Not sure why. 
We define church fathers a little different than you do.  You have to be a saint in the eastern world
to be a church father.  Therefore, Origen is not, while he is in the West.

(This really doesn't make much difference, since Origen had an influence on lots of folks who were saints.)

While we don't have doctors, we do have the (top) three hierarchs: John Chrystostom, Gregory of Naziansus, and Basil.

I meant the four original Doctors of the western church. St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, Pope St. Gregory and St. Jerome.

[trifecta]

Shoot, I should have got Jerome.  Pope Gregory is cool too (as I recall).

[Paulus]

I meant the four original Doctors of the western church. St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, Pope St. Gregory and St. Jerome.

A couple of more quotes , LH , from Augustine and Gregory .

" Those who wish to make room for the Lord must find pleasure not in private but in common property . " ( St Augustine ) .

" When we administer the necessities of any kind to those in need , we do not bestow our own , but render them what is theirs . We rather pay a debt of justice than accomplish works of mercy . " ( St Gregory the Great ) .

Regarding St Ambrose I am struck by the circumstances surrounding his becoming bishop of Milan .
The people of Milan wanted him to be their bishop even though he was not even a baptised Catholic and had no formal training in theology .
Still he was appointed , and within a week he was baptised and ordained bishop of Milan .

In all of that I am sure there is a lesson for the Church of today .

" We believe fishermen , not dialecticians . " ( St Ambrose ) .

[Catholica]

That's an interesting quote by Augustine about "common property", Paulus.  But I know that the Church is about as anti-socialist as we can get.  I don't know the context of the quote, but I now that the Church favors the model of people owning their own things but that they must always be willing to loan them to those in need.  Such is a certain type of common property that does not do away with private ownership.

[Paulus]

That's an interesting quote by Augustine about "common property", Paulus.  But I know that the Church is about as anti-socialist as we can get.  I don't know the context of the quote, but I now that the Church favors the model of people owning their own things but that they must always be willing to loan them to those in need.  Such is a certain type of common property that does not do away with private ownership.

Yes the Early Church Fathers have many interesting quotes on this issue .

" The bread that you store up belongs to the hungry . The cloak that lies in your chest belongs to the naked . The gold that you have hidden in the ground belongs to the poor . " ( St Basil the Great ) .

" The rich are in possession of the goods of the poor . Not to enable the the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life . The goods we possess are not ours but theirs . " ( St John Chrysostom ) .

" For whatever is of God is common in our use . Nor is anyone excluded from his benefits and his graces , so as to prevent the whole human race from enjoying equally the divine goodness in liberality . " ( Cyprian ) .

" Is this not evil , that you alone should have the Lord's property , that you alone should enjoy what is common ? " ( St John Chrysostom ) .

" God has given the earth in common to all , that they may pass their life in common , not that mad and raging avarice might claim all things for itself , and that that which was produced for all might not be wanting to any . " ( Lactantius ) .

The Second Vatican Council in the document "Gaudium et Spes" said : " This sacred Council urges all , both individuals and governments , to remember the saying of the Fathers : " Feed the man dying of hunger , because if you have not fed him you have killed him . " "

[Paulus]

A Prayer of St Ambrose :-

LORD , TEACH ME TO SEEK YOU , AND REVEAL YOURSELF TO ME WHEN I SEEK YOU .

FOR I CANNOT SEEK YOU UNLESS YOU FIRST TEACH ME , NOR FIND YOU UNLESS YOU FIRST REVEAL YOURSELF TO ME .

LET ME SEEK YOU IN LONGING , AND LONG FOR YOU IN SEEKING .

LET ME FIND YOU IN LOVE , AND LOVE YOU IN FINDING .

[Paulus]

A Prayer of St Ambrose :-

LORD , WHO HAS MERCY UPON ALL , TAKE AWAY FROM ME MY SINS .

MERCIFULLY KINDLE IN ME THE FIRE OF YOUR HOLY SPIRIT .

TAKE AWAY FROM ME THE HEART OF STONE ,

AND GIVE ME A HEART OF FLESH ,

A HEART TO LOVE AND ADORE YOU ,

A HEART TO DELIGHT IN YOU ,

TO FOLLOW AND ENJOY YOU FOR CHRIST'S SAKE .

[broach972]

He is indeed a very interesting person who just couldn't run from what God had in store for him.  While pondering my own journey into the Catholic faith, I thought it was fitting that I adopt his name as my confirmation name, which I did on Easter Vigil night, 2007.