One will be taken, the other left. Luke17:36

[Lehigh]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

    "For as in those days which were before the flood . . . they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left." (Matt. 24:38-40)

Noah's flood took the wicked away. Thus would be the coming of the Son of Man: Many would be taken away. Those who were to be "taken" (destroyed) were the wicked. This was why the Lord added this warning:

    "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming." (Matt. 24:42)

If His disciples were not alert in that sudden catastrophe, and failed to immediately flee from the city as the Lord had commanded them, they would have been in grave danger of being trapped in the city and sharing in the fate of the wicked.

2. Those who were "taken" were "raptured" to a horrible death.

The disciples asked the Lord "where" the "taken" ones were going to be taken. (Lk. 17:37) The Lord's reply was not, "Heaven," or "to My right hand" or "into clouds." Rather, His answer was ominous and dreadful:

    "Where the corpse is, there also will the vultures be gathered." (Lk. 17:37)

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

3. The time when some would be "taken," and the time of the gathering / rapture were two separate times.

The time when some would be "taken" was going to be synchronous with the time that the Christians were fleeing the city. (Lk. 17:31-37) Not only does it not make biblical sense that the Church would flee in haste out of the city to escape the looming wrath of God, only to be "raptured" away into Heaven after escaping the wrath, but Matthew 24 reveals that the time of the Christians fleeing the city (and therefore the time when some would be "taken") took place well before the "gathering" / "rapture" of the Church (Matt. 24:15-31; II Thess. 2:1).

4. The time when some would be "taken" did not happen "in the twinkling of an eye."

The time when some would be "taken" was going to happen at "night" (Lk. 17:34) when the people of Jerusalem slept, and it was also going to happen in the daylight when the people of Jerusalem were working (at the mill, in the field, etc.). This means that the event was not going to be a pin-point in time, but that it was going to continue for some time -- for days, or months or years.

This was a significant difference between the days of Noah and Lot and the Coming of the Son of Man. The days of Noah and Lot were sudden extinctions. They were virtually instant destructions of the wicked. But the Revelation of the Son of Man was not going to be the same in that regard. It was going to be a time of "Great Tribulation," a time of affliction, terror and slaughters.

The Son of man was going to come suddenly and unexpectedly, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the righteous were going to be taken out of the way (by fleeing the city by the Lord's command), as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the wicked were not going to escape, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. But the difference was that in the Coming of the Son of Man, the destruction of all the enemies was going to take place over many days of great terror and bloodshed.

The Coming of the Son of Man was also not going to be like the coming of a prophet who might appear in the wilderness or in inner rooms. It was going to be a great calamity that would be recognized immediately by all the inhabitants of the city, like a lightning-flash that filled the heavens. Then His fiery Presence was going to continue throughout the remaining days of tribulation and slaughter. (Matt. 24:26-28; Lk. 17:23-24)

What is depicted in the Lord's prophecy of some being "taken" and others "left" was a time of peril and atrocities. Many were going to be slain throughout the city, and carried away ("taken") to be eaten by dogs and vultures, while many others were going to be left alive, only to envy the dead. (Rev. 9:6) The Church, in contrast, immediately fled the city by the Lord's command and escaped the horrors of His wrath. (A.D. 68-70) See Josephus, Wars, iv, 121 - vii, 4.

[Bible Jim]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

    "For as in those days which were before the flood . . . they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left." (Matt. 24:38-40)

Noah's flood took the wicked away. Thus would be the coming of the Son of Man: Many would be taken away. Those who were to be "taken" (destroyed) were the wicked. This was why the Lord added this warning:

    "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming." (Matt. 24:42)

If His disciples were not alert in that sudden catastrophe, and failed to immediately flee from the city as the Lord had commanded them, they would have been in grave danger of being trapped in the city and sharing in the fate of the wicked.

2. Those who were "taken" were "raptured" to a horrible death.

The disciples asked the Lord "where" the "taken" ones were going to be taken. (Lk. 17:37) The Lord's reply was not, "Heaven," or "to My right hand" or "into clouds." Rather, His answer was ominous and dreadful:

    "Where the corpse is, there also will the vultures be gathered." (Lk. 17:37)

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

3. The time when some would be "taken," and the time of the gathering / rapture were two separate times.

The time when some would be "taken" was going to be synchronous with the time that the Christians were fleeing the city. (Lk. 17:31-37) Not only does it not make biblical sense that the Church would flee in haste out of the city to escape the looming wrath of God, only to be "raptured" away into Heaven after escaping the wrath, but Matthew 24 reveals that the time of the Christians fleeing the city (and therefore the time when some would be "taken") took place well before the "gathering" / "rapture" of the Church (Matt. 24:15-31; II Thess. 2:1).

4. The time when some would be "taken" did not happen "in the twinkling of an eye."

The time when some would be "taken" was going to happen at "night" (Lk. 17:34) when the people of Jerusalem slept, and it was also going to happen in the daylight when the people of Jerusalem were working (at the mill, in the field, etc.). This means that the event was not going to be a pin-point in time, but that it was going to continue for some time -- for days, or months or years.

This was a significant difference between the days of Noah and Lot and the Coming of the Son of Man. The days of Noah and Lot were sudden extinctions. They were virtually instant destructions of the wicked. But the Revelation of the Son of Man was not going to be the same in that regard. It was going to be a time of "Great Tribulation," a time of affliction, terror and slaughters.

The Son of man was going to come suddenly and unexpectedly, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the righteous were going to be taken out of the way (by fleeing the city by the Lord's command), as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the wicked were not going to escape, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. But the difference was that in the Coming of the Son of Man, the destruction of all the enemies was going to take place over many days of great terror and bloodshed.

The Coming of the Son of Man was also not going to be like the coming of a prophet who might appear in the wilderness or in inner rooms. It was going to be a great calamity that would be recognized immediately by all the inhabitants of the city, like a lightning-flash that filled the heavens. Then His fiery Presence was going to continue throughout the remaining days of tribulation and slaughter. (Matt. 24:26-28; Lk. 17:23-24)

What is depicted in the Lord's prophecy of some being "taken" and others "left" was a time of peril and atrocities. Many were going to be slain throughout the city, and carried away ("taken") to be eaten by dogs and vultures, while many others were going to be left alive, only to envy the dead. (Rev. 9:6) The Church, in contrast, immediately fled the city by the Lord's command and escaped the horrors of His wrath. (A.D. 68-70) See Josephus, Wars, iv, 121 - vii, 4.

Which one are you?

[raggthyme]

I agree Lehigh, I believe Jesus was speaking of the taking away of the wicked...

Matthew 13

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this [age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[Lehigh]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

    "For as in those days which were before the flood . . . they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left." (Matt. 24:38-40)

Noah's flood took the wicked away. Thus would be the coming of the Son of Man: Many would be taken away. Those who were to be "taken" (destroyed) were the wicked. This was why the Lord added this warning:

    "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming." (Matt. 24:42)

If His disciples were not alert in that sudden catastrophe, and failed to immediately flee from the city as the Lord had commanded them, they would have been in grave danger of being trapped in the city and sharing in the fate of the wicked.

2. Those who were "taken" were "raptured" to a horrible death.

The disciples asked the Lord "where" the "taken" ones were going to be taken. (Lk. 17:37) The Lord's reply was not, "Heaven," or "to My right hand" or "into clouds." Rather, His answer was ominous and dreadful:

    "Where the corpse is, there also will the vultures be gathered." (Lk. 17:37)

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

3. The time when some would be "taken," and the time of the gathering / rapture were two separate times.

The time when some would be "taken" was going to be synchronous with the time that the Christians were fleeing the city. (Lk. 17:31-37) Not only does it not make biblical sense that the Church would flee in haste out of the city to escape the looming wrath of God, only to be "raptured" away into Heaven after escaping the wrath, but Matthew 24 reveals that the time of the Christians fleeing the city (and therefore the time when some would be "taken") took place well before the "gathering" / "rapture" of the Church (Matt. 24:15-31; II Thess. 2:1).

4. The time when some would be "taken" did not happen "in the twinkling of an eye."

The time when some would be "taken" was going to happen at "night" (Lk. 17:34) when the people of Jerusalem slept, and it was also going to happen in the daylight when the people of Jerusalem were working (at the mill, in the field, etc.). This means that the event was not going to be a pin-point in time, but that it was going to continue for some time -- for days, or months or years.

This was a significant difference between the days of Noah and Lot and the Coming of the Son of Man. The days of Noah and Lot were sudden extinctions. They were virtually instant destructions of the wicked. But the Revelation of the Son of Man was not going to be the same in that regard. It was going to be a time of "Great Tribulation," a time of affliction, terror and slaughters.

The Son of man was going to come suddenly and unexpectedly, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the righteous were going to be taken out of the way (by fleeing the city by the Lord's command), as in the days of Noah and of Lot. And the wicked were not going to escape, as in the days of Noah and of Lot. But the difference was that in the Coming of the Son of Man, the destruction of all the enemies was going to take place over many days of great terror and bloodshed.

The Coming of the Son of Man was also not going to be like the coming of a prophet who might appear in the wilderness or in inner rooms. It was going to be a great calamity that would be recognized immediately by all the inhabitants of the city, like a lightning-flash that filled the heavens. Then His fiery Presence was going to continue throughout the remaining days of tribulation and slaughter. (Matt. 24:26-28; Lk. 17:23-24)

What is depicted in the Lord's prophecy of some being "taken" and others "left" was a time of peril and atrocities. Many were going to be slain throughout the city, and carried away ("taken") to be eaten by dogs and vultures, while many others were going to be left alive, only to envy the dead. (Rev. 9:6) The Church, in contrast, immediately fled the city by the Lord's command and escaped the horrors of His wrath. (A.D. 68-70) See Josephus, Wars, iv, 121 - vii, 4.

Which one are you?

I think you should read #2 in the answer section.

I'm neither, thank God!

[Linker]

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

[Lehigh]

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

God has not written any more "coming wrath."   
Only blessings,  not curses, for those who are in the "New Jerusalem." (Rev.22:3)  Praise God!
                                     

[thethinker]

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

Jesus was speaking about the Roman invasion. The one would be "taken" captive by the Roman armies ( Lk. 21:24). The other who heeded Christ's warning and fled to the hills would be "left."

thinker

[Lehigh]

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

Jesus was speaking about the Roman invasion. The one would be "taken" captive by the Roman armies ( Lk. 21:24). The other who heeded Christ's warning and fled to the hills would be "left."

thinker

I held that view for a long time.  But technically, if "two were in one bed, one was taken the other left, I could not reconcile how those who were "taken" were in such close proximity "in one bed" as the one who was "left".

From #2 in the preterist cosmos answer:

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

Jesus makes it clear about those who should and would flee the city. Then He speaks about the condition of those who would remain:
Luke 17:31-37,
31 "In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.

[Godlovejoy]

I agree Lehigh, I believe Jesus was speaking of the taking away of the wicked...

Matthew 13

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this [age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I totally agree with this too!  I also believe the wicked is taken away at the harvest.

[daq]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

The answer is dual, (and some of the other comments which have now been deleted from this thread might have been used to highlight this truth). A large part of the problem is the confused theology so prevailent in the teaching and preaching of the modern shepherds in the pulpits of today. Sins are not "pardoned" or "excused" but rather they are SENT AWAY (GSN#863 aphiemi).

Therefore, "Sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you"... "Because sin lieth at the door, and his desire is unto thee; and thou shalt rule over him"... And he always comes back from the desert, with all the sins upon his head, seeking re-entry into the former "house" from which he came...



Who is willing to become a true disciple of the Word?

APHIEMI  =  "SENT AWAY"
PARALAMBANO  =  "RECEIVED NEAR" ~ ACCEPTED

Matthew 9:1-9 KJV
1. And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee.
3. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4. And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5. For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive (GSN#863 aphiemi) sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Original Strong's Ref. #863
Romanized  aphiemi
Pronounced af-ee'-ay-mee
from GSN0575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):
KJV--cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.

"Son, be of good cheer: the sins of thee be SENT AWAY" ...

Luke 17:32-37
32. Remember Lot's wife (no turning back).
33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other shall be left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
35. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
36. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
37. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (GSN#4983 soma) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #3880
Romanized  paralambano
Pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o
from GSN3844 and GSN2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:
KJV--receive, take (unto, with).

Original Strong's Ref. #4983
Romanized  soma
Pronounced so'-mah
from GSN4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:
KJV--bodily, body, slave.

This body is soma and the shell when emptied is the ptoma-carcass.
The FLESH shall be done away in that Great Day of Atonement.
Yet each in his own appointed times ...

I tell you, in that night there shall be two in the bed of one; the one shall be received up, and the other son of perdition shall be sent away into destruction ...

Matthew 24:27-28 KJV
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase (GSN#4430 ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #4430
Romanized  ptoma
Pronounced pto'-mah
from the alternate of GSN4098; a ruin, i.e. (specifically) lifeless body (corpse, carrion):
KJV--dead body, carcase, corpse.

THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING ~

John 6:62-63 KJV
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 7:17-21 KJV
17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple (OUTER COURT OF THE FLESH) leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: (HEATHEN) and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The outer court of the FLESH is given to the Seven Mountains HEATHEN.
The inward Temple is the altar of 'adamah-soil of the inward man.
The same is the Parable of the Sower 'adamah-soil of the heart.

Revelation 11:7-8 KJV
7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8. And their dead bodies (GSN#4430 ptoma-carcasses) shall lie in the street (plateia-wide place) of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



And to the fire breathing dragons: when your testimony is complete then shall it be known if indeed you overcome in the time of your appointment: For none shall be alone in his appointed times and you most certainly are not alone O fiery ones. Yea, the mouth of the well of the bottomless belly which you serve is opened already though you know it not; and opened it was by your own deeds; like a star fallen from heaven, even a mighty one, opened with your own key which only you have been given. And now your sky is full of darkness from the smoke of the pit, and the war is about to come; And this war is waged inside of you, the war for your very own soul. Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. And if ye overcome then the carcass of the flesh shall be strewn in the high places of the field for three days and an hemisu, and the fowls of heaven shall summer on your carcasses, and your eyes of the flesh will dissolve in their sockets, and the tongues of the vipers with the words of the wicked shall be dissolved in their mouths as they stand: Therefore thus saith 'Adonay YHWH; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; Then shall they know that I am YHWH the 'Elohey of them, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith 'Adonay YHWH. And then shall ye no more be prophets; but tillers of the soil, O ye shoots of Amalek.

Judges 5:14-21
14. Out of Ephraim came down they whose root is in Amalek; after thee, Benjamin, among thy people; out of Machir came down governors, and out of Zebulun they that handle the pen of the writer.
15. And the princes of Issachar were with Deborah; even Issachar, and also Barak: he was sent on foot into the valley. For the divisions of Reuben there were great thoughts of heart.
16. Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.
17. Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.
18. Zebulun and Naphtali were a people that jeoparded their lives unto the death in the high places of the field.
19. The kings came and fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
20. They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
21. The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down `Oz!

[Godlovejoy]

I agree Lehigh, I believe Jesus was speaking of the taking away of the wicked...

Matthew 13

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this [age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

and more from Matt 13:

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



I totally agree with this too!  I also believe the wicked is taken away at the harvest.

[glen]

this taken and left business is a tough subject

we have the problem of taken being "paralambano" which means recieved, accepted (the youngs translates it as received in matthew), and jesus speaks of "receiving"(paralambano) us unto himself when he comes

The context of jesus coming back to paralambano us i think really is the most weighty evidence that taken means those who are saved and changed

On the other hand we read of the tares being gathered first by the angels, followed by the wheat which would give the weighty evidence towards the "taken" being the wicked


how do we figure this one out?

I believe i have found a possible answer, first off i propose that those taken are actually believers

here's why;

"taken" possibly does NOT refer to the physical gathering of believers, rather it refers to the sudden instant "change" that happens to them when christ comes, they are accepted and received into the wedding and "changed" (rev 14 -  the son of man reaps the earth)

After this the unbelievers are easy to distinguish from the believers by the angels (no lest you pull up the wheat with them, let them both grow together until the harvest)

Then the angels gather the wicked (rev 14 the angels gather the grapes and throw them into the winepress) - Left - (Aphiemi) - sent away

Finally the believers are physically gathered by the angels and taken to zion

Thoughts?

[glen]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

The answer is dual, (and some of the other comments which have now been deleted from this thread might have been used to highlight this truth). A large part of the problem is the confused theology so prevailent in the teaching and preaching of the modern shepherds in the pulpits of today. Sins are not "pardoned" or "excused" but rather they are SENT AWAY (GSN#863 aphiemi).

Therefore, "Sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you"... "Because sin lieth at the door, and his desire is unto thee; and thou shalt rule over him"... And he always comes back from the desert, with all the sins upon his head, seeking re-entry into the former "house" from which he came...



Who is willing to become a true disciple of the Word?

APHIEMI  =  "SENT AWAY"
PARALAMBANO  =  "RECEIVED NEAR" ~ ACCEPTED

Matthew 9:1-9 KJV
1. And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee.
3. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4. And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5. For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive (GSN#863 aphiemi) sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Original Strong's Ref. #863
Romanized  aphiemi
Pronounced af-ee'-ay-mee
from GSN0575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):
KJV--cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.

"Son, be of good cheer: the sins of thee be SENT AWAY" ...

Luke 17:32-37
32. Remember Lot's wife (no turning back).
33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other shall be left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
35. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
36. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
37. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (GSN#4983 soma) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #3880
Romanized  paralambano
Pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o
from GSN3844 and GSN2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:
KJV--receive, take (unto, with).

Original Strong's Ref. #4983
Romanized  soma
Pronounced so'-mah
from GSN4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:
KJV--bodily, body, slave.

This body is soma and the shell when emptied is the ptoma-carcass.
The FLESH shall be done away in that Great Day of Atonement.
Yet each in his own appointed times ...

I tell you, in that night there shall be two in the bed of one; the one shall be received up, and the other son of perdition shall be sent away into destruction ...

Matthew 24:27-28 KJV
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase (GSN#4430 ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #4430
Romanized  ptoma
Pronounced pto'-mah
from the alternate of GSN4098; a ruin, i.e. (specifically) lifeless body (corpse, carrion):
KJV--dead body, carcase, corpse.

THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING ~

John 6:62-63 KJV
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 7:17-21 KJV
17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple (OUTER COURT OF THE FLESH) leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: (HEATHEN) and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The outer court of the FLESH is given to the Seven Mountains HEATHEN.
The inward Temple is the altar of 'adamah-soil of the inward man.
The same is the Parable of the Sower 'adamah-soil of the heart.

Revelation 11:7-8 KJV
7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8. And their dead bodies (GSN#4430 ptoma-carcasses) shall lie in the street (plateia-wide place) of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



And to the fire breathing dragons: when your testimony is complete then shall it be known if indeed you overcome in the time of your appointment: For none shall be alone in his appointed times and you most certainly are not alone O fiery ones. Yea, the mouth of the well of the bottomless belly which you serve is opened already though you know it not; and opened it was by your own deeds; like a star fallen from heaven, even a mighty one, opened with your own key which only you have been given. And now your sky is full of darkness from the smoke of the pit, and the war is about to come; And this war is waged inside of you, the war for your very own soul. Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. And if ye overcome then the carcass of the flesh shall be strewn in the high places of the field for three days and an hemisu, and the fowls of heaven shall summer on your carcasses, and your eyes of the flesh will dissolve in their sockets, and the tongues of the vipers with the words of the wicked shall be dissolved in their mouths as they stand: Therefore thus saith 'Adonay YHWH; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; Then shall they know that I am YHWH the 'Elohey of them, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith 'Adonay YHWH. And then shall ye no more be prophets; but tillers of the soil, O ye shoots of Amalek.

Judges 5:14-21
14. Out of Ephraim came down they whose root is in Amalek; after thee, Benjamin, among thy people; out of Machir came down governors, and out of Zebulun they that handle the pen of the writer.
15. And the princes of Issachar were with Deborah; even Issachar, and also Barak: he was sent on foot into the valley. For the divisions of Reuben there were great thoughts of heart.
16. Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.
17. Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.
18. Zebulun and Naphtali were a people that jeoparded their lives unto the death in the high places of the field.
19. The kings came and fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
20. They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
21. The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down `Oz!

Daq

Who would you say the eagles are? unbelievers, believers, or angels?

Who are the disciples asking about when they ask "where lord"? the ones taken or the ones left?

[daq]

this taken and left business is a tough subject

we have the problem of taken being "paralambano" which means recieved, accepted (the youngs translates it as received in matthew), and jesus speaks of "receiving"(paralambano) us unto himself when he comes

The context of jesus coming back to paralambano us i think really is the most weighty evidence that taken means those who are saved and changed

On the other hand we read of the tares being gathered first by the angels, followed by the wheat which would give the weighty evidence towards the "taken" being the wicked


how do we figure this one out?

I believe i have found a possible answer, first off i propose that those taken are actually believers

here's why;

"taken" possibly does NOT refer to the physical gathering of believers, rather it refers to the sudden instant "change" that happens to them when christ comes, they are accepted and received into the wedding and "changed" (rev 14 -  the son of man reaps the earth)

After this the unbelievers are easy to distinguish from the believers by the angels (no lest you pull up the wheat with them, let them both grow together until the harvest)

Then the angels gather the wicked (rev 14 the angels gather the grapes and throw them into the winepress) - Left - (Aphiemi) - sent away

Finally the believers are physically gathered by the angels and taken to zion

Thoughts?

Hi glen
It is nice to see at least that some are willing to play by the rules. Words mean what they meant when they were written by the authors inspired by The Author. Therefore it is not us who make the rules but the Father who chose the two main languages, (plus some Aramaic). We may not be completely of one mind at the moment but we will eventually be so if we are putting on the mind of Christ by the Spirit and the washing of the water in the Word. 

[daq]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

The answer is dual, (and some of the other comments which have now been deleted from this thread might have been used to highlight this truth). A large part of the problem is the confused theology so prevailent in the teaching and preaching of the modern shepherds in the pulpits of today. Sins are not "pardoned" or "excused" but rather they are SENT AWAY (GSN#863 aphiemi).

Therefore, "Sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you"... "Because sin lieth at the door, and his desire is unto thee; and thou shalt rule over him"... And he always comes back from the desert, with all the sins upon his head, seeking re-entry into the former "house" from which he came...



Who is willing to become a true disciple of the Word?

APHIEMI  =  "SENT AWAY"
PARALAMBANO  =  "RECEIVED NEAR" ~ ACCEPTED

Matthew 9:1-9 KJV
1. And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee.
3. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4. And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5. For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven (GSN#863 aphiemi) thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive (GSN#863 aphiemi) sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Original Strong's Ref. #863
Romanized  aphiemi
Pronounced af-ee'-ay-mee
from GSN0575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):
KJV--cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.

"Son, be of good cheer: the sins of thee be SENT AWAY" ...

Luke 17:32-37
32. Remember Lot's wife (no turning back).
33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other shall be left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
35. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
36. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, (GSN#3880 paralambano) and the other left (GSN#863 aphiemi).
37. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (GSN#4983 soma) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #3880
Romanized  paralambano
Pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o
from GSN3844 and GSN2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:
KJV--receive, take (unto, with).

Original Strong's Ref. #4983
Romanized  soma
Pronounced so'-mah
from GSN4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:
KJV--bodily, body, slave.

This body is soma and the shell when emptied is the ptoma-carcass.
The FLESH shall be done away in that Great Day of Atonement.
Yet each in his own appointed times ...

I tell you, in that night there shall be two in the bed of one; the one shall be received up, and the other son of perdition shall be sent away into destruction ...

Matthew 24:27-28 KJV
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase (GSN#4430 ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Original Strong's Ref. #4430
Romanized  ptoma
Pronounced pto'-mah
from the alternate of GSN4098; a ruin, i.e. (specifically) lifeless body (corpse, carrion):
KJV--dead body, carcase, corpse.

THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING ~

John 6:62-63 KJV
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 7:17-21 KJV
17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple (OUTER COURT OF THE FLESH) leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: (HEATHEN) and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The outer court of the FLESH is given to the Seven Mountains HEATHEN.
The inward Temple is the altar of 'adamah-soil of the inward man.
The same is the Parable of the Sower 'adamah-soil of the heart.

Revelation 11:7-8 KJV
7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8. And their dead bodies (GSN#4430 ptoma-carcasses) shall lie in the street (plateia-wide place) of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



And to the fire breathing dragons: when your testimony is complete then shall it be known if indeed you overcome in the time of your appointment: For none shall be alone in his appointed times and you most certainly are not alone O fiery ones. Yea, the mouth of the well of the bottomless belly which you serve is opened already though you know it not; and opened it was by your own deeds; like a star fallen from heaven, even a mighty one, opened with your own key which only you have been given. And now your sky is full of darkness from the smoke of the pit, and the war is about to come; And this war is waged inside of you, the war for your very own soul. Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. And if ye overcome then the carcass of the flesh shall be strewn in the high places of the field for three days and an hemisu, and the fowls of heaven shall summer on your carcasses, and your eyes of the flesh will dissolve in their sockets, and the tongues of the vipers with the words of the wicked shall be dissolved in their mouths as they stand: Therefore thus saith 'Adonay YHWH; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; Then shall they know that I am YHWH the 'Elohey of them, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith 'Adonay YHWH. And then shall ye no more be prophets; but tillers of the soil, O ye shoots of Amalek.

Judges 5:14-21
14. Out of Ephraim came down they whose root is in Amalek; after thee, Benjamin, among thy people; out of Machir came down governors, and out of Zebulun they that handle the pen of the writer.
15. And the princes of Issachar were with Deborah; even Issachar, and also Barak: he was sent on foot into the valley. For the divisions of Reuben there were great thoughts of heart.
16. Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.
17. Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.
18. Zebulun and Naphtali were a people that jeoparded their lives unto the death in the high places of the field.
19. The kings came and fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
20. They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
21. The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down `Oz!

Daq

Who would you say the eagles are? unbelievers, believers, or angels?

Who are the disciples asking about when they ask "where lord"? the ones taken or the ones left?

Hi glen
The fowls are gathered to the great supper to consume "the FLESH".
And Mystery Babylon is "the FLESH" personified.

Revelation 17:12-16 KJV
12. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

There are Ten Toes and Ten Horns ~

Daniel 2:42-44 KJV
42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: (beginning at the Cross) and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 7:7-8 KJV
7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

And the Little Horn ruler makes Twenty One ~

Deuteronomy 14:12-18 KJV
12. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13. And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14. And every raven after his kind,
15. And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16. The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17. And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18. And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

There are 21 fowls listed here which we are to consider abomination, (see Leviticus 11). This is because these are doctrines, (doctrines of devils) which we are not to eat or partake of because when we do then we eventually become like them. The first seven in this text are masculine and the ones that follow them are feminine. All of the masculine fowls are predatory birds which lie in wait for the vulnerable and the young so that they may swoop in and steal what is not theirs. Each of them has his own traits and characteristics as in keen sighted, or fast flying, darters, etc., etc. They are the same "type" as the great red dragon waiting for the man-child to be born in Revelation 12 so that he may devour the child before he becomes a son. In the Parable of the Sower the unclean fowls are Satan, the Devil, and the wicked one(s) according to the three versions of the Parable in each of the three Gospel accounts where it is recorded.

Matthew 13:3-4 KJV
3. And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4. And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Matthew 13:18-19 KJV
18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:14-15 KJV
14. The sower soweth the word.
15. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:11-12 KJV
11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

However, there is one different in the Deuteronomy 14 list and he is the Little Horn ruler. And he personified in the phrase "every `oreb-raven after his kind" which is the same "old man" sin nature `Aza'zel of each and every man or woman. This one comes back to his former house, seeking reentry, with seven others more wicked than himself.

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Would that not make him the eighth and of the seven?
All of them will be gathered together for the battle of the Great Day.
And when they have consumed the FLESH they are destroyed by fire.
And then a true son is born into the Kingdom; neither male nor female:
If and when it happens Remember Lot's wife: no turning back from there.

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

[pointmade]

Wait now...before the selective separation of the believers and non-believers we have to restore  Israel.
Got to get the Jews save in some manner....the Gospel has no effect on em.

Got a plan...have Russia ( gog ) invade Palestine; gather all the Muslims in Iran (miraculously, naturally)
have the USS Ronald Reagan cruise through the Straits of Hormuz.....and with one big explosion get
rid of the whole bunch who has been a drain on the U.S. economy since 1948.
Matthew 23:38

[thethinker]

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

Jesus was speaking about the Roman invasion. The one would be "taken" captive by the Roman armies ( Lk. 21:24). The other who heeded Christ's warning and fled to the hills would be "left."

thinker

I held that view for a long time.  But technically, if "two were in one bed, one was taken the other left, I could not reconcile how those who were "taken" were in such close proximity "in one bed" as the one who was "left".

From #2 in the preterist cosmos answer:

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

Jesus makes it clear about those who should and would flee the city. Then He speaks about the condition of those who would remain:
Luke 17:31-37,
31 "In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.

[daq]

from preterist Q&A:

QUESTION: The Bible says that one would be taken and one would be left. This is obviously talking about the Rapture. How was this prophecy fulfilled?

ANSWER: The prophecy of some being "taken" and others being "left" (Matt. 24:26-28, 37-42; Lk. 17:23-37) is not a prophecy of the "rapture." It is a prophecy of the terror and death that was going to take place throughout the city of Jerusalem. Here are four reasons why I believe this:

1. Those who were going to be "taken" were not righteous, but were wicked people:

   "For as in those days which were before the flood . . . they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left." (Matt. 24:38-40)

Noah's flood took the wicked away. Thus would be the coming of the Son of Man: Many would be taken away. Those who were to be "taken" (destroyed) were the wicked. This was why the Lord added this warning:

   "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming." (Matt. 24:42)

If His disciples were not alert in that sudden catastrophe, and failed to immediately flee from the city as the Lord had commanded them, they would have been in grave danger of being trapped in the city and sharing in the fate of the wicked.

2. Those who were "taken" were "raptured" to a horrible death.

The disciples asked the Lord "where" the "taken" ones were going to be taken. (Lk. 17:37) The Lord's reply was not, "Heaven," or "to My right hand" or "into clouds." Rather, His answer was ominous and dreadful:

   "Where the corpse is, there also will the vultures be gathered." (Lk. 17:37)

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

...*snip*...

What is depicted in the Lord's prophecy of some being "taken" and others "left" was a time of peril and atrocities. Many were going to be slain throughout the city, and carried away ("taken") to be eaten by dogs and vultures, while many others were going to be left alive, only to envy the dead. (Rev. 9:6) The Church, in contrast, immediately fled the city by the Lord's command and escaped the horrors of His wrath. (A.D. 68-70) See Josephus, Wars, iv, 121 - vii, 4.

The Lord's separates

One will be taken [killed] in His coming wrath and judgment and another will be left to survive it

Jesus was speaking about the Roman invasion. The one would be "taken" captive by the Roman armies ( Lk. 21:24). The other who heeded Christ's warning and fled to the hills would be "left."

thinker

I held that view for a long time.  But technically, if "two were in one bed, one was taken the other left, I could not reconcile how those who were "taken" were in such close proximity "in one bed" as the one who was "left".

From #2 in the preterist cosmos answer:

The "taken" ones were going to be carried away and left unburied, to be eaten by vultures. This is exactly what happened to those who were trapped in Jerusalem throughout the Great Tribulation. The whole city eventually became littered with unburied corpses.

Jesus makes it clear about those who should and would flee the city. Then He speaks about the condition of those who would remain:
Luke 17:31-37,
31 "In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.

[3 Resurrections]

Luke is not the first time in scripture that this language occurs where "one will be taken, and the other left".  It is also found in the Old Testament in Isaiah where the prophet predicts the fall of Babylon. 

Preterists have no difficulty seeing the correlation between Babylon of the Old Testament and "Mystery Babylon" of Revelation, which is Jerusalem.  To be called by the name of their ancient conqueror responsible for Jerusalem's first death in 586 BC was the ultimate insult for those who were convinced of their ethnic superiority to the Gentile nations around them.

Here is how the text of Isaiah 13:14-15 (LXX) copies that of Luke 17:34-36.  "And they that are LEFT shall be as a fleeing fawn, and as a stray sheep, and there shall be none to gather them: so that a man shall turn back to his people, and a man shall flee to his own land.  For whosoever shall be TAKEN shall be overcome; and they that are gathered together shall fall by the sword."  Neither of these options of being "taken" or "left" were desirable outcomes for Babylon of that day when the Medes would come against them.  If they were "taken" by being gathered together, they would be overcome by the sword.  If they were "left", they were reduced to the status of scattered, fleeing fugitives on the run for their lives.  Babylon's overthrow by the Medes in Isaiah 13:19 is compared to that of Sodom and Gomorrha - as Jerusalem is also compared to Sodom in Revelation 11:8. 

There are some striking similarities between the terms used for Babylon's destruction in Isaiah chapters 13 and 14 and the NT accounts of Jerusalem's AD 70 judgment.  I could reproduce a list of the comparable terms used with their references, but instead I would challenge any reader to compare these chapters for themselves, particularly the LXX rendering of Isaiah 13 and 14.  Note "The Day of the Lord" references, pangs seizing them "as of a woman in travail", "mourning", "desolation", the "earth shaking" "kings and nations" gathering together, "sorrows", the moon and sun being darkened, etc.

It would appear that BOTH those "taken" and also those "left" were in dire straits during the tribulation of the AD 70 era.  The "rapture" text has nothing to do with those "taken" in this particular context.

[notreligus]

I believe that those left are those who rejected Christ and did not accept Him as the Messiah.  The non-believing Jews were not looking for a spiritual kingdom but a physical kingdom.   Apocryphal writers who wrote texts we now call the Pseudopigrapha encouraged the Jews to look for a man sent from God who would lead them to victory over their captors and set up an earthly kingdom.   So, they looked for a man and not for God.   The Jews say that only God could reconcile the world.   That part is true, but they did not believe Jesus was God but simply a man who was a false prophet.   The truth about who Jesus really is, is being diluted by the church today and that is because we are looking for Jesus to come and set up the kingdom the Jews were seeking.   Also, we do not recognize reconciliation as that which only God can accomplish for us.  We believe we are capable saving ourselves outside of placing our faith in Him.

Christ reigns now from His heavenly throne.  That is fulfillment of the kingdom.   When He returns He will take those who are His to Himself and they will be part of the final physical Kingdom He will establish on the Earth.   That is the consummation of the kingdom.   

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[Sheilaa]

Hi Leigh.

I find your comments easy to follow and they make sense when compared to the old testament examples even more so. Thanks for your input Sheila