Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism

[Amo]

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/2017/november/poland-reclaims-day-of-rest-by-slowly-phasing-out-sunday-shopping

Returning to the Bible, Poland Reclaims Sunday as a Day of Rest

Strange title for the article linked. The bible says absolutely nothing about Sunday rest.

[Amo]

Amo:
GE:
She taught more than that, and you know it full well! She taught about Sunday being the day to remember and joy over in heaven and on earth forevermore! Which, so far as I know, she NOT ONCE wrote about or of the Seventh Day Sabbath!

Hypocrite, why don't you tell everything?!

Stop twisting the words of others and the truth of the matter. The day of Christ's resurrection was a joyous day in heaven and on earth. That day regardless of what day, was not, is not, and never will be meant to replace God's seventh day Sabbath. Your are as wrong as Sunday keepers for thinking or suggesting that Christ had to rise on the Sabbath for it to maintain it's significance and importance as one of the Ten Commandments of God.

[Amo]

https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/27489-poland-s-parliament-votes-to-return-sunday-to-day-of-rest

Poland's Parliament Votes to Return Sunday to Day of Rest

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-41025700

Polish bishops for total ban on Sunday shopping

Poland's leading Catholic bishop has spoken out in favour of an almost complete ban on shops opening on Sunday, amid growing public controversy over the proposal.

"Free Sundays are what all Catholics, non-Catholics and non-believers need," Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki told Polish Radio ahead of a meeting of the Bishops Conference on Friday, which is expected to support the ban.

[Amo]

http://www.dw.com/en/berliners-peeved-at-sunday-ban-on-convenience-stores/a-18591737

Berliners peeved at Sunday ban on convenience stores

https://edgeofthearctic.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/its-against-the-law-to-grocery-shop-on-a-sunday/

It's against the law to shop on a Sunday

https://www.rferl.org/a/1098491.html

Slovakia: Church Opens Debate About Closing Shops On Sundays

http://www.visitingvienna.com/shopping/opening-hours/

I exaggerate, but if you're used to 24/7 convenience, then you might have to ratchet down your expectations. In general, shops are not allowed to open before 6 am or after 9 pm (weekdays) or after 6 pm (Saturdays), or total more than 72 hours of operation per week. Shops must also close on Sundays and public holidays.

http://www.france24.com/en/20130928-french-france-labour-law-sunday-shopping-castorama-sephora/

But Sunday has been legally protected as a day of rest since 1906, though there are exceptions for fishmongers, florists and other types of commerce, including those in designated tourist areas like Paris's Montmartre.

Businesses that violate the law by operating on Sunday without authorisation face fines of up to 6,000 euros ($8,000).

Those who defend the notion of Sunday as largely commerce-free – including unions that have fought to keep France's 35-hour work week, as well as Catholic churches – argue that it is important to uphold the tradition of one day a week devoted to rest and relaxation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-42012169

A minister said a request was made to a businesswoman to close her shop on Sundays in a bid to encourage people to "enjoy the peace of the Sabbath".

Leona Rawlinson, who runs Tweed Tastic on Lewis, was sent a bible and a letter from The Lord's Day Observance Society, Lewis and Harris branch.

The Rev Greg MacDonald, a branch committee member, said the group had concerns about changes to tradition.

Ms Rawlinson has refused the group's request.

The Rev Greg, a Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) minister, told BBC Radio Scotland's Kaye Adams Programme that the shop owner should be recognised for her good use and promotion of locally-woven Harris Tweed.

But he said that, while people were free to do as they chose, he would discourage anyone who would listen to him from visiting businesses when they were open on a Sunday.

The minister said: "I would want everyone to enjoy the peace of the Sabbath.

He added: "We don't police people's private life. Our group is concerned about changes to the traditional day of the Lord's Day.

"The Lord's Day is a day of peace. It is not a day of profit and trading."

http://libertymagazine.org/article/sunday-laws-in-america

"Every man and woman shall repair in the morning to the divine service and sermons preached upon the Sabbath day, and in the afternoon to divine service, and catechising, upon pain for the first fault to lose their provision and the allowance for the whole week following; for the second, to lose the said allowance and also be whipt; and for the third to suffer death."

[Amo]

https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30022

Catholic World News
EU bishops back Pillar of Social Rights, call for recognition of Sunday rest

In recent comments on the draft document, COMECE called for a recognition of Sunday rest.

"As in times of digitalization of the economy, the boundaries between private and work-life become increasingly blurred, COMECE proposes to incorporate decent working hours and the right to a common weekly day of rest," the bishops' commission stated. "This day should be in principal the Sunday, which is recognized by tradition and custom in most of the member states or regions."

The bishops added:

The economic and financial crisis has shaken the firm belief of Europe growing together. It has showed that without cooperation and dialogue at EU and global level, the nation state alone is no longer able to address the pressing social and economic challenges of our societies. In a globalized economy, COMECE therefore hopes that the European Pillar of Social Rights will renew social convergence in Europe and contribute to the creation of a culture that "drives globalization towards the humanizing goal of solidarity.

Yes, Sunday sacredness and rest by law is part of Rome's globalist agenda. Denial does not change the facts.

[Amo]

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/watchman-radio-hour/read/articles/forgetting-the-christian-sabbath-12264.html

The above is an interesting link. It applies many points which have been addressed on these boards in relation to the Sabbath, in defense of God's seventh day Sabbath and it's continued significance. It dismisses many of the arguments by Sunday keepers on these boards and particularly this thread to the effect that the Sabbath was only for the Jews and did not exist as a command before the ten commandments were given to Israel. It then of course wrongly applies the command to Sunday instead of Sabbath, claiming Christ changed the day. As is obvious there are some very different perspectives among Sunday keepers. You don't hear the argument of this link very often, or at least I have not. Perhaps it is more prevalent than I know. Just haven't run into it hear that I can recall.

[Amo]

https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/sunday_mass.htm

Sunday Mass and Holy Day Obligation

It is both a precept of the Church and Church law that Catholics must worship God on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation by participating in the Holy Mass. This follows from the fact that in the Mass it is Christ Himself who worships the Father, joining our worship to His. In no other way is it possible to adequately give thanks (eucharistia) to God for the blessings of creation, redemption and our sanctification than by uniting our offerings to that of Jesus Christ Himself. Following the example of the Old Covenant the Church does this weekly, on the day of the Lord's Resurrection.

Canon 1247
On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass; they are also to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body.

Canon 1248
   1. The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.
   2. If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the liturgy of the word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families.

Since a "grave cause" is needed to excuse one from this obligation it would be a serious or mortal sin to willfully skip Mass on Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation, as the Church has always taught. Reasons such as the necessity to work to support one's family, child care, personal sickness or the care of the sick, necessary travel etc. would excuse a person on a particular occasions. Those who have continuing reason to be excused should consult their pastor.

If a priest is not available in an area and only a Liturgy of the Word or a Communion Service is offered the Mass obligation does not "transfer" to such services. As canon 1248 notes, participation is recommended for the spiritual value, especially if Communion is distributed.


The proper way to celebrate Sunday is spoken of at length in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
2182  Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

2183  "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families."

A day of grace and rest from work

2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done," human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body. Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.

The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.

2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days.

[Amo]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-accuses-world-leaders-of-fomenting-fear-of-refugees-in-pro-migration-message-207857/

Pope Francis Accuses World Leaders of Fomenting Fear of Refugees in Pro-Migration Message

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis on Friday excoriated politicians who foment fear of migrants, saying they were sowing violence and racism, and urged them to "practice the virtue of prudence" to help them integrate.

oops, wrong topic.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:

Stop twisting the words of others and the truth of the matter. The day of Christ's resurrection was a joyous day in heaven and on earth. That day regardless of what day, was not, is not, and never will be meant to replace God's seventh day Sabbath. Your are as wrong as Sunday keepers for thinking or suggesting that Christ had to rise on the Sabbath for it to maintain it's significance and importance as one of the Ten Commandments of God.

'twisting the words of others'? 'twisting the truth of the matter'?
Amo:
'The day of Christ's resurrection was a joyous day in heaven and on earth. That day regardless of what day'

'The day of Christ's resurrection ... regardless of what day'?! It is a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron!

'Regardless' --for Amo-- is it, "the angel EXPLAINED", and "explained" 'Christ's resurrection' "IN THE SABBATH'S FULLNESS IN THE MID-AFTERNOON AS DAYLIGHT began declining / inclining towards / against / unto / before the First Day of the week..."?!

Amo is the one who 'TWISTS' this Scripture, as is it 'meant to replace God's seventh day Sabbath'-- ignoring, 'twisting', Scripture meant to identify THIS VERY Sabbath Day as "the Seventh Day GOD thus concerning did SPEAK: And God THE DAY the Seventh Day from ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED" : "JESUS INDEED HAVING GIVEN THEM REST, WHEREFORE, for the People of God SABBATH DAYS'-REST REMAINS" inviting, persuading, impelling, "because GOD having RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD", "ON IT" and "IN IT, TRIUMPHED".

If that did not CHANGE the Sabbath Day from a dead-letter-sabbath day of the Law to the 'joyous day in heaven and on earth' of God's Sabbath-Rest which He Spoke about "by the SON", the People of God through Jesus Christ and through his Resurrection from the dead have not gained, but have LOST God's Holy Sabbath Rest Day (to make my own word,) irrestitutibly.

[Amo]

Ramble on.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

If the fact "Jesus gave them Rest" did not CHANGE the Sabbath Day from a dead-letter-sabbath day of the Law of 'thou shall's' to the 'joyous day in heaven and on earth' of God's Sabbath-Rest which He Spoke about "by the SON", "the People of God" through Jesus Christ and through his Resurrection from the dead have not gained, but have lost God's Holy Sabbath Rest Day irredeemably, and "The Son of Man" never, would have become or been, "LORD OF THE SABBATH", and the Sabbath never, would have become or been, "Sabbath of OF THE LORD GOD"!

God always "spoke about" the Sabbath "by the SON ... in times past through the prophets ... in these last days", "by the all-exceeding greatness of His Power WHEN He raised Him from the dead", that is, on the very day "having raised Christ from the dead".

[Amo]

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm

Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

The Canons of the Synod Held in the City of Laodicea, in Phrygia Pacatiana, in which Many Blessed Fathers from Divers Provinces of Asia Were Gathered Together.

The holy synod which assembled at Laodicea in Phrygia Pacatiana, from various regions of Asia; set forth the ecclesiastical definitions which are hereunder annexed.

Canon 29

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

[Amo]

https://www.anglican.net/doctrines/1604-canon-law/

Constitutions and Canons ECCLESIASTICAL .
      Of the Church of ENGLAND.

Of Divine Service, and Administration

of the Sacraments.XIII.Due Celebration of Sundays and Holy-days.

ALL manner of Persons within the Church of England, shall from henceforth celebrate and keep the Lord's Day, commonly called Sunday, and other Holy-days according to God's holy Will and Pleasure, and the Orders of the Church of England, prescribed in that behalf; that is, in hearing the Word of God read and taught in private and publick Prayers, in acknowledging their Offences to God and amendment of the same, in reconciling themselves charitably to their Neighbours where Displeasures have been, in oftentimes receiving the Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, in visiting of the Poor and Sick, using all godly and sober Conversation.

[Amo]

https://www.episcopalarchives.org/e-archives/canons/CandC_FINAL_11.29.2006.pdf

Constitution & Canons
Together with the Rules of Order
For the government of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America
Otherwise Known as
The Episcopal Church

TITLE II WORSHIP

CANON 1: Of the Due Celebration of Sundays

All persons within this Church shall celebrate and keep the Lord's Day, commonly called Sunday, by regular participation in the public worship of the Church, by hearing the Word of God read and taught, and by other acts of devotion and works of charity, using all godly and sober conversation.[/size]

[Amo]

https://sites.google.com/site/canonsoc/home/canons-of-the-apostles

The Canons of the Eastern Orthodox Church

The Canons of the Holy Apostles

Canon LXVI.
If any of the clergy be found fasting on the Lord's day [i.e. Sunday], or on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], excepting the one only [i.e. Holy Saturday], let him be deposed. If a layman, let him be excommunicated.

Notice in the above, that early on both the Sabbath and Sunday were kept and considered the Lord's day.

[Amo]

https://sites.google.com/site/canonsoc/home/canons-of-the-ecumenical-councils/ii-nicaeanum-787

The Canons of the Eastern Orthodox Church

II Nicaeanum (787)

Canon VIII.
That Hebrews ought not to be received unless they have been converted in sincerity of heart.

Since certain, erring in the superstitions of the Hebrews, have thought to mock at Christ our God, and feigning to be converted to the religion of Christ do deny him, and in private and secretly keep the Sabbath and observe other Jewish customs, we decree that such persons be not received to communion, nor to prayers, nor into the Church; but let them be openly Hebrews according to their religion, and let them not bring their children to baptism, nor purchase or possess a slave. But if any of them, out of a sincere heart and in faith, is converted and makes profession with his whole heart, setting at naught their customs and observances, and so that others may be convinced and converted, such an one is to be received and baptized, and his children likewise; and let them be taught to take care to hold aloof from the ordinances of the Hebrews. But if they will not do this, let them in no wise be received.

[Amo]

http://abvmcalgary.com/abvmcalgary/index.php/our-faith-practise/18-history

The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary Ukrainian catholic Parish

The History of Sunday Observance

Conclusion
It is evident that the celebration of Sunday is the oldest and a very sacred Christian tradition, which originated with the Apostles themselves. Consequently, par­ticipation in the Divine Liturgy and the observance of Sunday rest should be for us a natural practice of evident spiritual value. We must not forget that obligation to keep Sunday holy is not only a Church law, but basically also a divine law from which no dispensation can be given. Even if for grave reasons we cannot be present in Church for Sunday services, never­theless, we are obliged to keep Sunday holy in our own way. We can do this, for example, by frequent remembrance of God, longer prayers, spiritual reading, and guarded speech and conduct.

Though the conclusion above and the rest of the page linked assert the apostles began this tradition, scripture is silent upon the matter, and therefore also no apostles are or can be quoted as establishing or promoting anything of the matter.

[Texas Conservative]

Everyone knows that Sunday is now the Sabbath.  In the book of Acts, Chapter 20, verse 7, we even see an example of the disciples meeting on the first day (Sunday).

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Posted by: Texas Conservative
« on: Yesterday at 17:05:09 » Insert Quote
Everyone knows that Sunday is now the Sabbath.  In the book of Acts, Chapter 20, verse 7, we even see an example of the disciples meeting on the first day (Sunday).

Instead, the TRUTH...

Acts 20:7 does in fact imply, the Lord's Supper, with what is called the Infinitive of Noun Force. But the sentence uses no Indicative finite verb that says, "They assembled for Holy Communion" like one would have done on any normal Day of Christian Worship. No, it uses a Perfect Participle which actually means its very literal and precise rendering with, "After having had assembled for Holy Communion, we, on the First Day of the week (Saturday evening) having-been-assembled-still, Paul discussed matters with them.""

Luke says, "synehgmenohn"— "Because they before had had been assembling and on the First Day of the week were being gathering together still, Paul addressed them",

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Delete cancel

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

3 Peter (aka Lively Stone IUD):
« Reply #29 on: Tue Oct 30, 2012 »

Jesus is the Sabbath and we rest in Him, free from keeping any particular day as separate. If anyone desires to keep the Sabbath, they are free to, but no one is commanded to.

[Amo]

Everyone knows that Sunday is now the Sabbath.  In the book of Acts, Chapter 20, verse 7, we even see an example of the disciples meeting on the first day (Sunday).

Keep stirring the pot bro.

[Amo]

https://sites.google.com/site/canonsoc/home/canons-of-the-apostles

(All emphasis mine)

Council at Sardica (343)

Canon 11. Whenever a Bishop goes from one city to another city, or from one province to another province, for the sake of vaunt with a view to having eulogies bestowed upon him, or to appearing to be devoted to the religion, and desires to stay there too long a time, and the Bishop of that city is not an experienced teacher, we decree that he shall not treat the latter scornfully, and deliver sermons too continuously, and thereby endeavor to bring disgrace and ignominy upon the Bishop of that place. For this excuse has been wont to cause trouble, and such cunning rascality shows that he is endeavoring to court and to usurp the other's benefice, and will not hesitate to abandon the church assigned to him and to step over into the other one. The time, therefore, for this must be fixed (since it has been deemed to be nothing short of inhuman and rude not to welcome a visiting Bishop]. Remember that in time past our fathers judged that if any layman staying in a city three Sundays should fail to attend church for three weeks in succession, he should be denied communion. If, therefore, this has been made a law as respects laymen, no Bishop must or ought or can without disadvantage stay away from his own church for any great length of time, and grieve the laity entrusted to him, unless he be under some grave necessity or in some difficult situation.
(Ap. cc. XXXV, LVIII; c. VIII of the 3rd; cc. XIX, XX, LXXX of the 6th; c. XVI of the lst-&-2nd; cc. LXXIX, LXXXII, LXXXIII, CXXXI, CXXXII, CXXXIII of Carthage; cc. V, XX, XXI of Gangra; cc. Ill, XII of Sardica; c. VI of Nyssa; c. X of Peter; cc. XIII, XXII of Antioch.).

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Dear Amo, you have done an extraordinary GREAT JOB historically wise. But in Christ's name I beg you, do not be so dishonest and hypocritical when it comes to your and your church's heretical and embarrassingly inept or rather extremely clever miss-interpretation and falsification of the Scriptures!

At least you still have the guts to tell me to 'ramble on' and so on where your fellow SDA don't dare answer me a word.

God --Jesus Christ-- is the True Witness between us. When you refute me, do it with the Written Word of God, not with instilled FEAR for your church authorities for the hearing of unadulterated Scripture. I have been saying for decades the SDA and RCC are no different. You once again are proving what I said.

In case you're again going to ignore and discard what I say to you ... read again...

Dear Amo, you have done an extraordinary GREAT JOB historically wise. But in Christ's name I beg you, do not be so dishonest and hypocritical when it comes to your and your church's heretical and embarrassingly inept or rather extremely clever miss-interpretation and falsification of the Scriptures!

At least you still have the guts to tell me to 'ramble on' and so on where your fellow SDA don't dare answer me a word.

God --Jesus Christ-- is the True Witness between us. When you refute me, do it with the Written Word of God, not with instilled FEAR for your church authorities for the hearing of unadulterated Scripture. I have been saying for decades the SDA and RCC are no different. You once again are proving what I said.

[Amo]

Dear Amo, you have done an extraordinary GREAT JOB historically wise. But in Christ's name I beg you, do not be so dishonest and hypocritical when it comes to your and your church's heretical and embarrassingly inept or rather extremely clever miss-interpretation and falsification of the Scriptures!

At least you still have the guts to tell me to 'ramble on' and so on where your fellow SDA don't dare answer me a word.

God --Jesus Christ-- is the True Witness between us. When you refute me, do it with the Written Word of God, not with instilled FEAR for your church authorities for the hearing of unadulterated Scripture. I have been saying for decades the SDA and RCC are no different. You once again are proving what I said.

In case you're again going to ignore and discard what I say to you ... read again...

Dear Amo, you have done an extraordinary GREAT JOB historically wise. But in Christ's name I beg you, do not be so dishonest and hypocritical when it comes to your and your church's heretical and embarrassingly inept or rather extremely clever miss-interpretation and falsification of the Scriptures!

At least you still have the guts to tell me to 'ramble on' and so on where your fellow SDA don't dare answer me a word.

God --Jesus Christ-- is the True Witness between us. When you refute me, do it with the Written Word of God, not with instilled FEAR for your church authorities for the hearing of unadulterated Scripture. I have been saying for decades the SDA and RCC are no different. You once again are proving what I said.

I'm not ignoring you, and I have no instilled fear of mine or any other church authorities, I just won't continue to beat a dead dog with a stick. I just do not see what you are demanding is there. If Christ rose on the sabbath it would not bother me, or effect what I already believe at all. Nor does Him rising on Sunday change what I believe at all, or in any way shape or form make that day the new Sabbath of God without scriptural testimony conclusively stating that this is so. To the contrary, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conclusively stated that God's law could not and would not change until all be fulfilled. Christ rested from His work of salvation and restitution on the seventh day in the sleep of death after completing that which establishes the new creation, as He rested also in the beginning after He created heaven and earth and all that is in them. After which He arose as the High Priest of the new covenant unto salvation for all who will rest in Him.

If Christ rose from the dead on the sabbath, scripture would make this abundantly clear, and even expounded upon such through His Apostles to establish this truth. To the contrary, not only did He do neither,  but instead allowed for the establishment of a spurious day of rest and worship to be established in place of that which He has commanded. This for the express purpose of establishing two separate and distinct signs each representing the ultimate choice of humanity in relation to God. One representing complete submission to God through Jesus Christ by faith in the word of God itself, and the other representing all other forms of satanically inspired man made methods and traditions of self salvation. One representing the offering of Abel, the other representing the offering of Cain. One representing the Mystery of Godliness, the other representing the mystery of iniquity. That all may choose between the two in one generation when God sees fit to bring an end to all save His own. Sunday sacredness is the deception of God's own choosing, allowed for this very purpose.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God. 3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. 4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. 5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? 8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward. 9 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; 10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day: 11 And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. 12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

God Himself has chosen the delusion and abomination the lost will choose over that which the word of the Lord has established. They do not call the seventh day Sabbath of the Lord a delight, but rather a burden to be kept only by those who seek salvation through their own works without faith in God. This they do while they create their own works and traditions to replace one of the commandments of God, placing their faith in these rather than the word of God. They have turned true faith in action into dead works, and dead works of human tradition into supposed true faith, saying "let us do evil, that good may come". The Lord calls His Sabbath a delight and claims His own do also, but they call it a burden and all who keep it deceived. Jesus created, sustained, and kept the Sabbath, they will not. Jesus said He did not come to change the law, and that the law cannot be changed. They say the law has changed and that Jesus Himself changed it. Our Lord and Saviors testimony is clear and concise. They reject the same in favor of the delusion God Himself has ordained as the abomination they will choose above submission and obedience to His trust worthy, unchangeable, and self fulfilling word. They exalt their day through human laws, above the law of God and have and will persecute those who will not submit to their abominable laws. In the end though, they will be ashamed, and those who have honored God's law above mans law will be vindicated by the God both claimed to worship.
Cain and Abel both worshiped God, one did so according to God's instruction and was accepted, the other brought an offering of his own making which was rejected.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:

continue to beat a dead dog with a stick. I just do not see what you are demanding is there. If Christ rose on the sabbath it would not bother me, or effect what I already believe at all.

GE:
All right, You are calling the for truth presupposed fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath', 'beat(ing) a dead dog with a stick' which 'would not bother (you) at all... or effect what (you) already believe'.

Well, you have explained fully where the flaw in your 'belief system' lies, namely, with your below zero-line devaluation of "THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION...WHEREBY THE MORE BY FAR WE ARE SAVED".

That, Amo, has been the SDA official defence for as long as they existed. Continuing defending what they love to hear defended like you are doing, makes you stay popular with your church, for sure. But, will make you very unpopular if you stopped. Still you reckon there is no fear factor to worry about?

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:
Nor does Him rising on Sunday change what I believe at all, or in any way shape or form make that day the new Sabbath of God without scriptural testimony conclusively stating that this is so. Nor does Him rising on Sunday change what I believe at all'

GE:
... even though it is the most infamous lie which in every way shaped, yea, created Christianity as we know it for what it is for real!? And despite every time that you object against the for truth presupposed fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath', you object 'without scriptural testimony...at all'!?

You just take for granted, then pretend, the fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath (is) without conclusive scriptural testimony stating that this is so'.
Just saying does not prove just saying. Just saying 'without conclusive scriptural testimony' is no Scriptural testimony—it is yours!

Again it is the way FEAR reacts to incontestible, solely Scriptural, testimony-- with a flood of words saying nothing at all and meaning, even less. The worst way of defence for sooth is to attack with blind vehemence.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:
To the contrary, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conclusively stated that God's law could not and would not change until all be fulfilled.

'To the contrary'?! 'To the contrary' of what?! Where is your 'conclusive Scriptural evidence' Christ's Resurrectection from the dead is, was, or ever could be, 'contrary...that God's law could not and would not change until all be fulfilled'? What is Christ's Resurrection but the fulfilment of God's Law, specifically and more than any of God's Laws, the Sabbath Law of the Fourth Commandment and the creation Scriptures?

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:
Christ rested from His work of salvation and restitution on the seventh day in the sleep of death after completing that which establishes the new creation, as He rested also in the beginning after He created heaven and earth and all that is in them. After which He arose

GE:
Christ's 'rest in the sleep of death' was no rest 'from His work of salvation'. Christ's 'rest in the sleep of death' was as much THE work of his Salvation and "Triumph in it" as was his Suffering, Sacrifice, Death, and, Resurrection—the 'Restitution on the Seventh Day'.
"For God the day The Seventh Day finished ('established') ALL, HIS, WORKS" (Hebrews 4:4 et al), viz., finished 'established the New Creation' raising Christ from the dead "on the Sabbath".

"God rested"..."having  RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD BY THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS MIGHTY POWER WHICH HE WORKED exalting and RESTING / SEATING / CROWNING Him AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND: HIS HEAVENLY MAJESTY!" (Ephesians 1:19,20 et al). For which completion, blessing, hallowing and RESTING, "God energised / exerted / used / worked, his FAR-EXCEEDING GREATER MIGHTY POWER" than when "God Almighty Elohim in the beginning energised / worked", to "create heaven and earth and all that is in them"—which in any case, God worked and accomplished and finished, "very good" through Christ Jesus, "The Beginning and The End of the creation of God"!

[*Not 'after' God's FAR-EXCEEDING GREATER MIGHTY POWER" '...He arose', but BY 'which', Christ arose!]

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Amo:
If Christ rose from the dead on the sabbath, scripture would make this abundantly clear, and even expounded upon such through His Apostles to establish this truth. To the contrary, not only did He do neither,  but instead allowed for the establishment of a spurious day of rest and worship to be established in place of that which He has commanded.

GE:
It's high time Amo, you start to think for yourself and write your own thing; not parrot Samuele Bacchiocchi. As Bacchiocchi would say, one might 'capatalise on the fact'. But the Jew is the Italian one furlong ahead... always. He capatalised with paying the capital price for to OBTAIN THE BETTER PROMISE OF HIS LIFE—, his Resurrection from the dead! ...AND: so PREVENTED 'instead the establishment of a spurious day of rest and worship to be established in place of that which He has commanded' and paid for and WON BACK with his LIFE!

If you can't see how abundant and abundantly clear the Scriptures make it and establish and expound the fact and Truth that Christ rose from the dead on the Sabbath and HAD TO rise from the dead on the Sabbath "according to all the Scriptures and the prophets beginning at Moses, and the Psalms"—even Jesus' own prophetic pronouncements as well as his apostles' witness—, 'this truth', to your own loss for ever must escape you.

[Amo]

Amo:
GE:
All right, You are calling the for truth presupposed fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath', 'beat(ing) a dead dog with a stick' which 'would not bother (you) at all... or effect what (you) already believe'.

Well, you have explained fully where the flaw in your 'belief system' lies, namely, with your below zero-line devaluation of "THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION...WHEREBY THE MORE BY FAR WE ARE SAVED".

That, Amo, has been the SDA official defence for as long as they existed. Continuing defending what they love to hear defended like you are doing, makes you stay popular with your church, for sure. But, will make you very unpopular if you stopped. Still you reckon there is no fear factor to worry about?

Yea, that's me, always trying to stay popular with the church. Your such a good judge of character. I haven't been to church in many years, no doubt this has made me more popular than I was when I used to attend. They through a party when I stopped going.

Your petty judgments are just that, petty and without substance. You don't have a clue why I do what I do. Perhaps you should stick to what we all have the responsibility of judging for ourselves, what is truth and what is not, and avoid judging that which we have not been given the responsibility of judging. There is a reason were not supposed to judge others hearts or motives, were not very good it, as your have just demonstrated.

I don't give a fat rats rear end about defending a denomination. You wouldn't ever hear much at all if anything about the things on this thread in the church I used to attend or most other SDA churches anymore for that matter. Which is why I haven't attended church for such a long time. For the most part I can go to the nearest Sunday church down the road to hear what is preached in most SDA churches on Sabbaths anymore. Major prophetic events occur without even a mention from the pulpits of SDA churches. The congregations are being lulled to sleep and subtly redirected upon paths God never intended them to travel. I'm not heading in that direction.

I belong to a denomination for now, but I care nothing for defending a denomination, save defending the truth ends up also defending that denomination. I have not devalued the power of the resurrection. Nor is the power of the resurrection dependent upon which day it took place, save in your apparently confused mind. You are free of course to show me from scripture where they point out the resurrections dependents upon what day it took place, if you wish. Just don't do it on this thread, quit hijacking this one, and start another one.

[Amo]

GE:
... even though it is the most infamous lie which in every way shaped, yea, created Christianity as we know it for what it is for real!? And despite every time that you object against the for truth presupposed fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath', you object 'without scriptural testimony...at all'!?

You just take for granted, then pretend, the fact that 'Christ rose on the sabbath (is) without conclusive scriptural testimony stating that this is so'.
Just saying does not prove just saying. Just saying 'without conclusive scriptural testimony' is no Scriptural testimony—it is yours!

Again it is the way FEAR reacts to incontestible, solely Scriptural, testimony-- with a flood of words saying nothing at all and meaning, even less. The worst way of defence for sooth is to attack with blind vehemence.

Bla bla bla. More rambling on. We've addressed quite a bit of scripture concerning this topic by the way. Quit hijacking this thread and start another one regarding which day christ rose upon please.

[Amo]

'To the contrary'?! 'To the contrary' of what?! Where is your 'conclusive Scriptural evidence' Christ's Resurrectection from the dead is, was, or ever could be, 'contrary...that God's law could not and would not change until all be fulfilled'? What is Christ's Resurrection but the fulfilment of God's Law, specifically and more than any of God's Laws, the Sabbath Law of the Fourth Commandment and the creation Scriptures?

Take a chill pill Gerhard. All has not been fulfilled. Nor has heaven and earth passed. Nor should you keep hijacking this thread. Start another one.

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Amo]

GE:
It's high time Amo, you start to think for yourself and write your own thing; not parrot Samuele Bacchiocchi. As Bacchiocchi would say, one might 'capatalise on the fact'. But the Jew is the Italian one furlong ahead... always. He capatalised with paying the capital price for to OBTAIN THE BETTER PROMISE OF HIS LIFE—, his Resurrection from the dead! ...AND: so PREVENTED 'instead the establishment of a spurious day of rest and worship to be established in place of that which He has commanded' and paid for and WON BACK with his LIFE!

If you can't see how abundant and abundantly clear the Scriptures make it and establish and expound the fact and Truth that Christ rose from the dead on the Sabbath and HAD TO rise from the dead on the Sabbath "according to all the Scriptures and the prophets beginning at Moses, and the Psalms"—even Jesus' own prophetic pronouncements as well as his apostles' witness—, 'this truth', to your own loss for ever must escape you.

I'm not parroting anyone. Tried to read one of Bacchiocchi's books once, didn't capture my attention. Same dead dog topic I'm not going though with you again. Quit hijacking this thread and start another one. If anyone is interested enough they can argue this same point over and over again with you if they wish.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

I'm not parroting anyone. Tried to read one of Bacchiocchi's books once, didn't capture my attention. Same dead dog topic I'm not going though with you again. Quit hijacking this thread and start another one. If anyone is interested enough they can argue this same point over and over again with you if they wish.

You have freely gone your way, many times and in many places. Not once have you encountered your real dilemma and never have you even attempted, to answer it, what succeeded...NOT ONCE OR EVER any of these three things: ENCOUNTERED, COUNTERED, SUCCEEDED!

This may be your thread, but what have your started it for if no one can question or criticise? I was the one you were grateful to for the support and encouragement I gave you when you began with these postings. Was there anyone else? I cannot recall. Now it's nice to be buddies, but here's a little sugar-sachet advice for you: 'Cherish the friend who tells you a harsh truth, wanting ten times more to tell you a loving lie.' Robert Brault.

I am, God willing, going to continue rip you and your post(s) apart, like the very good exegetical physician I am.

TBC, you just hang on...