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Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism

Started by Amo, Sat Feb 11, 2012 - 10:39:55

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Rella

Quote from: Amo on Sun Apr 09, 2023 - 10:03:28
http://adventmessenger.org/catholic-cardinal-sunday-worship-strengthens-church-and-community-life-and-those-who-deliberately-disregard-it-commit-grave-sin/

Quoted article below from link above.

Catholic Cardinal: Sunday Worship Strengthens Church and Community Life, and those who Deliberately Disregard it Commit Grave Sin

On March 11, 2023, the Catholic Archbishop of Singapore, William Goh, who was elevated to Cardinal status by Pope Francis in 2022, published a formal directive ordering people to return to church on Sunday. The order was called "Restoring the Solemnity and the Spirit of the Day of the Lord by Participation in the Sunday Eucharist." In his capacity as leader, Cardinal Goh cautioned clergy and laypeople alike that the Sunday Eucharist is the cornerstone of faith and the solution to "the world's despair." He added that it is a "grave sin" to purposely skip Sunday services. Additionally, he asserts that Catholic doctrine is "also important to strengthen the community and to help them walk together in faith."

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Singapore published Cardinal Goh's words, which stated the following:

"The Sunday Eucharist has always been held in great importance by the Church. The commemoration of the Lord's resurrection is a tradition going back to the Apostles and hence called the Lord's Day. Celebrating the resurrection of our Lord is the heart of Christian Faith. It is the basis of our faith in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. It is also the answer to the world's despair and the meaning of life." [1]

"For this reason, the Church has legislated that "on Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass"  (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No 2180 cf Canon Law 1247). It also states that "unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants, or vulnerable to infectious disease) or given dispensation by their own pastor, those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin" (CCC 2181, cf Canon Law 1245). This law is imposed not to make our lives inconvenient but to underscore the grave obligation that active participation in the Sunday Eucharist is vital for Christian life. We must not reduce Sunday, the Day of the Lord simply to a weekend of rest, shopping, dining, or engaging in cultural and sporting activities. Church Laws are given more for the weak, and not so much for those who are disciplined in their spiritual life." [1]

"Church Laws are also important to strengthen the community and to help them walk together in faith. That is why we should not merely fulfil the obligation in a perfunctory manner but interiorise the Spirit of the Sunday Obligation. Just "attending Mass" itself would not be the right spirit in fulfilling this obligation. One must participate in the Mass with the intention of giving glory to God, to consecrate the entire day to Him by sharing our life and love with our fellow Catholics and extending the love we receive with those who do not know Christ especially by our works of charity." [1]


It is clear from Cardinal Goh's words that he is not just speaking to his Catholic parishioners. The "community" at large and those who "do not know Christ" are both included. His message is that you are committing a great sin if you skip Sunday worship. What Cardinal Goh is saying is what the Roman Catholic Church has done for millennia. They are manipulating people, sowing seeds of doubt, and making people question what God Himself has said about the Sabbath day.

Sunday is not the Lord's Day or the day of rest and worship. Saturday is the true Lord's Day. The Sabbath has never been changed, will never be changed, and cannot be changed because it is a memorial of creation. It was blessed and sanctified by God and is enshrined in the Moral Law (Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 20:8–11). And Jesus made it clear that He is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Mark 2:28).

You can deceive both yourself and other people by celebrating your birthday on a day other than the one on which you were actually born. You are welcome to host your friends and celebrate a day on which you were not born. You can proclaim your fictitious birthdate from the rooftops and perpetuate your fraud throughout the world. However, there is no way to alter the truth about when you were actually born or to rewrite history.

Today, the world has sanctified the first day of the week and is participating in an act of misrepresentation and fraud. Millions believe that Sunday is the day of rest, but as long as God endures, as long as His word is true, and as long as the earth remains, the seventh-day Sabbath is a rebuke to all those who are worshiping on the wrong day.

Before sin entered our world, the Sabbath was a memorial to the living God. Before sin destroyed the perfect peace and unity that existed in the Garden of Eden, the Sabbath had been established, blessed, and sanctified by the Lord. And this memorial of God will live on throughout eternity in the earth made new (Isaiah 66:22, 23). Yes, after this world has been purified and all the marks of sin have been forever removed, Saturday, not Sunday, will remain for all eternity as the true day of worship for the Creator.

The true Sabbath has not simply been forgotten by people; rather, it has been ruthlessly and purposefully trampled underfoot by the beast of Bible prophecy. Instead of keeping God's Sabbath, men have elevated a fictitious day of rest that has unholy origins. There is a power that is not godly and has sought to change the commandments of God for the traditions of men. It was the little horn (Daniel 7:25) who thinks that he could "change" times and laws. It was the mystery of iniquity, the man of sin, who changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the day of the sun, Sunday, a day revered in paganism.

The Roman papacy officially decreed the change from Saturday to Sunday during the Council of Laodicea in AD 364:

"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ" (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

High-ranking Catholic leaders freely admit that the Catholic Church made this change:

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify." (Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89).

"The Catholic Church, ... by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday" (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

"Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope" (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things" (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

"The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" (Catholic Record of London, Ontario, Sept. 1, 1923).

"Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the Catholic Church alone. The Catholic Church says, by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church" (Thomas Enright, CSSR, President, Redemptorist College [Roman Catholic], Kansas City, MO, Feb. 18, 1884).

"The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ" (Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop).


The true seventh-day Sabbath is rooted in the eternal word of God. It is as timeless as eternity. It is a memorial of God's creative and redemptive power (Deuteronomy 5:15). On the other hand, the Papacy, in its blind and blasphemous presumption, claims to be able to change the moral law of God by dispensing altogether with the Sabbath that He established. This is the same spirit that the Bible warned us about:

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:29, 30.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.


It appears that the "falling away" into apostasy started even in the times of the apostles, which is how the papal power came to be. Now, once again, they are making calls for the return of Sunday rest, not just for the church but for all of society. We are aware of where this is going. All the cries for tolerance and compassion, for coexistence and peace, will soon come to an end.

"God's Word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage-ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the Word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution" (Great Controversy, p. 581).

Happy Easter, Amo... or do you not celebrate or acknowledge that it was on a Sunday that the tomb was found empty?

Question as I labor to understand your beliefs.

The above link and quotes are certainly to outline that dastardly doings of many Catholics in their lives when it comes to their participation in the Eucharist.  Sunday is a no-no. It is wrong.... but there are those who do so on Saturdays and some on Fridays....  and when ever that amass together in a sanctuary of a Catholic church... just so long as they are Catholics in godd standing.

I know your belief is that only on Saturday... (not even Friday 6PM to Sat 6PM) is the one and true Sabbath day and is the only one worthy of "Sabbath" considerations.

Would you be so kind as to tell me how you celebrate your sabbaths?

I understand you do not work. (Though must be difficult for some given their choice of professions under a boss)

But do you attend church or spend your time reflecting on what the heavenly Father has done for us and in prayer. (If it is to church, how does that work as those of service in the church are actually working to serve you)

Back in the 1970s Robert Schuller ( Crystal Cathedral) always said that since Sunday was a workday for him, he took Monday as his day of rest and he and his wife had "date night"... which of course had someone working for them.

Now... while I acknowledge that day 7 was the time God stopped working and rested in it.... And while you are honoring this day in the same way... and as the Jewish Sabbath commanded them to do.... can you explain why , when we have a new religion, apart from Judaism, that came into being through Jesus-"The Christ"... and was spread continually through out the world ... even unto today.... why there should be no day to commemorate Him  , but only the original Sabbath that was in effect since creation and continues even to today with those who do not acknowledge that their Messiah came 2000 give or take years ago?

That just tells me we are ignoring the reason for our FAITH.

AGREED... GOD rested on the seventh day from His work.... and thus all were supposed to rest on that day.... And God never told us to celebrate Jesus' Birth' or the shedding of His blood for you and me... or even His resurrection.............. BUT DID GOD EVER SAY IT WAS WRONG?

Texas Conservative

Resurrection Day!  The Lord's Day!

DaveW

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Sun Apr 09, 2023 - 11:40:06
Resurrection Day! 
Yes.  Yom ha Bikkurim (day of first fruits)   1 Corinthians 15:20

QuoteThe Lord's Day!
No.  That is the day of judgement and destruction.   Joel 1:15

Jaime

#633
I think you are right Dave. The Lord's Day = Day of  the Lord. The same day John was in the Spirit in Revelation 1. I don't have a big problem calling Sunday the Lord's day, but to call it that because of Rev 1 is a stretch in my opinion.

Amo

Quote from: Rella on Sun Apr 09, 2023 - 10:57:34
Happy Easter, Amo... or do you not celebrate or acknowledge that it was on a Sunday that the tomb was found empty?

Question as I labor to understand your beliefs.

The above link and quotes are certainly to outline that dastardly doings of many Catholics in their lives when it comes to their participation in the Eucharist.  Sunday is a no-no. It is wrong.... but there are those who do so on Saturdays and some on Fridays....  and when ever that amass together in a sanctuary of a Catholic church... just so long as they are Catholics in godd standing.

I know your belief is that only on Saturday... (not even Friday 6PM to Sat 6PM) is the one and true Sabbath day and is the only one worthy of "Sabbath" considerations.

Would you be so kind as to tell me how you celebrate your sabbaths?

I understand you do not work. (Though must be difficult for some given their choice of professions under a boss)

But do you attend church or spend your time reflecting on what the heavenly Father has done for us and in prayer. (If it is to church, how does that work as those of service in the church are actually working to serve you)

Back in the 1970s Robert Schuller ( Crystal Cathedral) always said that since Sunday was a workday for him, he took Monday as his day of rest and he and his wife had "date night"... which of course had someone working for them.

Now... while I acknowledge that day 7 was the time God stopped working and rested in it.... And while you are honoring this day in the same way... and as the Jewish Sabbath commanded them to do.... can you explain why , when we have a new religion, apart from Judaism, that came into being through Jesus-"The Christ"... and was spread continually through out the world ... even unto today.... why there should be no day to commemorate Him  , but only the original Sabbath that was in effect since creation and continues even to today with those who do not acknowledge that their Messiah came 2000 give or take years ago?

That just tells me we are ignoring the reason for our FAITH.

AGREED... GOD rested on the seventh day from His work.... and thus all were supposed to rest on that day.... And God never told us to celebrate Jesus' Birth' or the shedding of His blood for you and me... or even His resurrection.............. BUT DID GOD EVER SAY IT WAS WRONG?

Sorry Rella, didn't see your post or the others till now. As it is late, I will plan on answering your questions after work tomorrow. Happy late easter to you as well. I have no problem with people celebrating that which is among the most climactic events in human history. Though the whys and wherefores of history regarding this institution are far from biblically pure. Many today do not and have not even considered such, and so for all intentional purposes, they are simply celebrating Christ's death,  burial, and glorious resurrection.

Amo

Hello Rella. Now to your questions.

QuoteI know your belief is that only on Saturday... (not even Friday 6PM to Sat 6PM) is the one and true Sabbath day and is the only one worthy of "Sabbath" considerations.

The seventh day Sabbath is from evening unto evening, as it was from the beginning when all days were established at creation. That is from Friday sundown, to Saturday sundown.

QuoteWould you be so kind as to tell me how you celebrate your sabbaths?

No Problem -

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I endeavor to follow the above fairly simple instructions. Setting the day apart from others by not working on it for my living, spending time in study, worship, prayer, and or sharing (witnessing) regarding the truths of God's word. I have no particular set of rules apart from the plain and simple testimony found in the commandment itself.

QuoteI understand you do not work. (Though must be difficult for some given their choice of professions under a boss)

When I became convicted of the Sabbath truth, I was stationed on a ship in the United States Coast Guard. I expressed my new convictions to my immediate supervisors, who brought the issue up the chain of command. It was decided that I could switch my duties with others willing to do so or who preferred Sundays off. When I was transferred to a small boat search and rescue station which included boarding officer duties, I understood that there are some jobs which one cannot simply take off. I switched duties with others when possible, but certainly understood that emergency rescues and law enforcement could not be put off for another day. So I of course tended to these matters when necessary. As it is most certainly lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

After five years though, I determined to end my Coast Guard career for a few different reasons. Not the least of which was my desire to more regularly keep God's fourth commandment without the many interruptions which came along with my job. Since then I have passed up many jobs in order to observe God's fourth commandment as I believe He desires us to, for our own benefit. I have no regrets.

QuoteBut do you attend church or spend your time reflecting on what the heavenly Father has done for us and in prayer. (If it is to church, how does that work as those of service in the church are actually working to serve you)

I attended the Seventh Day Adventist church for many years. Serving in many different offices along the way. Eventually, the direction the church was going in, didn't seem to align with what I had joined up for, so I stopped attending. I entered the denomination intending to be a part of the prophetic movement it once represented. That movement having all but vanished from the pulpit for many years, to the contrary even being downplayed from the pulpit in blatant and subtle ways, lead me to the conviction that I could no longer sit and listen to and or watch these changes that I was convicted were not according to God's will. Therefore I stopped attending. I now observe the fourth commandment as expressed earlier in this post.

QuoteBack in the 1970s Robert Schuller ( Crystal Cathedral) always said that since Sunday was a workday for him, he took Monday as his day of rest and he and his wife had "date night"... which of course had someone working for them.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

QuoteNow... while I acknowledge that day 7 was the time God stopped working and rested in it.... And while you are honoring this day in the same way... and as the Jewish Sabbath commanded them to do.... can you explain why , when we have a new religion, apart from Judaism, that came into being through Jesus-"The Christ"... and was spread continually through out the world ... even unto today.... why there should be no day to commemorate Him  , but only the original Sabbath that was in effect since creation and continues even to today with those who do not acknowledge that their Messiah came 2000 give or take years ago?

Your last statement above is a gross misrepresentation of historical facts. Millions of Christians have kept God's seventh day Sabbath right from the beginning of the new covenant to the present. Not just the Jews.

The Sabbath is not Jewish. It is not the Jew's Sabbath. It is God's Sabbath, as He has declared it to be so many times over in scripture. It was established thousands of years before there ever was a Jew. When God established Israel, He told them to remember His Sabbath, not to observe a Jewish one. God's Sabbath will also be observed in heaven, as the scriptures also plainly state.

The original Sabbath does commemorate our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who created, sustains, and has saved this world. He is Lord of the Sabbath. Who established the Sabbath at creation. Called His people to remember it during the old covenant. Taught the misguided Jews its proper observance once again when here among us as our living human example. And conclusively stated that He did not come to change God's law while among us, but rather to establish it.

While there is nothing wrong with choosing to celebrate the Lord's resurrection on Sundays, there is most definitely something wrong with replacing Christ's Sabbath according to the commandment, with another extra biblical man made one. Which man made day of worship has been forced upon countless souls throughout history by human laws. As it still is today in many places around the world. Some of these laws having been established recently. There simply is no command from scripture anywhere to exalt the first day of the week as such, or enforce such upon anyone. Nevertheless, this is the history of Sunday "sacredness". Man made "sacredness" supported by man made laws.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 
QuoteThat just tells me we are ignoring the reason for our FAITH.

How is keeping God's fourth commandment, ignoring the reason for our faith? How is keeping a day never even mentioned in scripture as a holy day, supposedly holy, faith? Faith in what? Apparently not God's word. Because there is nothing in God's word about doing so.

Here is how Paul describes our faith in one place -

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

It is the carnal mind which is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.  How can those who would walk according to the Spirit, have the righteousness of the law fulfilled within them, while disregarding one of God's commandments? By replacing it, with a man made commandment?

QuoteAGREED... GOD rested on the seventh day from His work.... and thus all were supposed to rest on that day.... And God never told us to celebrate Jesus' Birth' or the shedding of His blood for you and me... or even His resurrection.............. BUT DID GOD EVER SAY IT WAS WRONG?

No He didn't. But He did say that it was wrong to teach others not to keep any one of His commandments. And it is wrong to replace God's Sabbath, with a man made one. Let alone force countless other people to observe it via man made legislation.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hope the above satisfactorily answers your questions Rella. God bless.

DaveW

Quote from: Rella on Sun Apr 09, 2023 - 10:57:34
Happy Easter, Amo... or do you not celebrate or acknowledge that it was on a Sunday that the tomb was found empty?
And I hope you had a very happy Resurrection Day. I know you were asking Amo but there was something that I hope Amo and the others here will not mind me chiming in on.

QuoteNow... while I acknowledge that day 7 was the time God stopped working and rested in it.... And while you are honoring this day in the same way... and as the Jewish Sabbath commanded them to do.... can you explain why , when we have a new religion, apart from Judaism,
While that is certainly what happened, there is no indication in scripture or elsewhere that God ever intended to make a separate religion called Christianity.  Indeed, all thru Acts the early church was considered a branch of Pharisaic Judaism.  It was not until after the Bar Kochba revolt that there became a permanent separation between church and synagogue. Rome enacted some very harsh laws against Judasim, and were even more harsh against Gentiles by birth who practiced anything that looked like Judaism. 

So the church stopped meeting on Saturdays, stopped observing the Feasts of the Lord like Passover and Tabernacles, stopped reading the scriptures in Hebrew and instead used the Greek Septuagint; and the list could go on and on.

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Apr 11, 2023 - 05:13:04
Indeed, all thru Acts the early church was considered a branch of Pharisaic Judaism.
That's not a well-established fact.  Actually, that's a minority position.  Most scholars find Christianity to have more in common with the Essene community than the Pharisees.

Amo

https://www.fulcrum7.com/blog/2023/4/14/supreme-court-showdown-over-sunday-could-change-us-workplaces

Quoted article below from link above.

QuoteSupreme Court Showdown over Sunday Could Change US Workplaces

When God said to remember the Sabbath, he was pretty explicit about which day it was.  Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.  It is the seventh day of creation week, immortalized in the Ten Commandments, and honored by faith followers of God. But...
 
Some people are confused and substitute the first day of the week for the seventh, thinking it probably doesn't matter to God.  It does, though.

Now we have court case that is about to be heard in the Supreme Court, where the plaintiff is demanding Sundays off from work.  And he's calling it the Sabbath.  Maybe the court will correct his misuse of the term—but I doubt it.

Former U.S. Postal Service letter carrier Gerald Groff spent every day for seven years delivering the mail in a rural corner of southeast Pennsylvania -- except for Sundays when he would attend worship services and rest.

But in 2019, the former Mennonite missionary and son of a truck driver said his boss forced him to choose between practicing his faith or a paycheck distributing packages, and he resigned.

Next week, Groff will ask the U.S. Supreme Court to require employers to be more accommodating of religiously observant workers, including a right to skip shifts on the Sabbath and still keep their jobs.

The case has the potential to transform workplaces -- and the employer-employee relationship -- across America, experts say.

"I didn't really think I should have to quit. I really expected the post office to find a way to accommodate me and make it work for both them and myself," Groff said.

Federal law requires employers to accommodate the religious beliefs of workers unless it would impose an "undue hardship" on business -- a standard the Supreme Court interpreted 46 years ago to mean anything more than a "de minimis cost."

The USPS says Groff's refusal to work Sundays imposed a significant cost on operations, alleging the absences "created a tense atmosphere" and bred "resentment toward management" and that the need to find substitutes was "time consuming," according to court documents.

Two lower federal courts agreed.

The Postal Service does not deliver mail on Sundays, but beginning in 2015 carriers nationwide were contracted to help deliver packages for the online retail giant Amazon. The USPS says the arrangement has been a major source of revenue in the face of declining traditional mail.

"They began to ask people in my position to deliver on Sundays or holidays, and I told them, 'I'm not going to be able to work on the Lord's day at all,'" Groff said. "The Bible says that we're supposed to keep the Lord's day as unique and holy, a day that's set apart to worship and honor God."

After being repeatedly disciplined for not showing up, Groff resigned in 2019 and sued USPS for religious discrimination.

Groff says the bar for an employer legally refusing to accommodate sincere religious practice needs to be higher. But critics warn that could create a sweeping impact on non-observant Americans.

"This case opens the floodgates to every employee in the workforce being forced to carry the burden of someone else's religious practices," said Rachel Laser, president and CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Groff's attorneys insist those concerns are overblown.

"Why in the world do you want to get rid of the guy who's going to deliver on Thanksgiving Day and deliver two shifts on a Saturday and go into the night all the rest of the days [of the] week over a few Sundays that we can always schedule around?" asked Hiram Sasser, executive general counsel for First Liberty Institute.

The Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case on Tuesday and issue a decision before the end of June.

At a minimum, we hope that Groff will discover the true biblical Sabbath Day, and remember it (Exodus 20:8-11).  That would be a real win.

Now we will find out if the seven or eight Catholics out of our nine member Supreme Court, will submit to the teachings of their spiritual leaders. The problem with this man's argument, is of course that the bible does not say anywhere, that any should keep the first day of the week holy. Nor is Sunday the biblical Sabbath at all. So this should not be a part of his argument. Nevertheless, people should have the freedom to choose a day rest according to religious convictions, or not.

QuoteCATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[107] 
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.[108]

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."[109] Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

A day of grace and rest from work
2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"[121] human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.[122]

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.[123] Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health. 
The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.[124]

2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."[125]

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).

2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).

2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 # 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

2193 "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body" (CIC, can. 1247).

2194 The institution of Sunday helps all "to be allowed sufficient rest and leisure to cultivate their amilial, cultural, social, and religious lives" (GS 67 # 3).

2195 Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.

Amo

#639
https://europeansundayalliance.eu/2023-european-day-for-a-work-free-sunday-synchronised-quality-resting-time-for-an-improved-mental-health-of-workers/

Quote article below from link above. Emphasis in blue is mine.

Quote2023 European Day for a Work-Free Sunday: Synchronised quality resting time for an improved mental health of workers

On the occasion of the 2023 European Day for a Work-free Sunday on March 3, the European Sunday Alliance recalls the urgent need for synchronised quality and social resting tune for workers, in order to enable them to preserve their mental health.


Every worker has the right to working conditions which respect his or her health, safety and dignity. Every worker has the right to limitation of maximum working hours, to daily and weekly rest periods and to an annual period of paid leave.

Article 31 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU



Weekly rest periods not only encompass the quantity of time, i.e. a work-free day, but also the quality of this rest. A work-free day must allow to combine both personal rest and social bonding. Individuals are indeed social beings, part of a community, and their interpersonal relationships play a key role in their work-life balance, wellbeing, and recovery from work. Where resting tune can be organised as synchronised resting time, this allows individual to spend time with their family members, friends or peers, or collective social communities, which can include volunteering, worship, leisure and sport. A common day of rest during the week is a prerequisite for a healthy work-life balance and a recovery from daily stress.

Furthermore, the phenomenon of loneliness is a growing and unpreceded reality in Europe, impacting negatively the work-life balance and wellbeing of workers. Loneliness and social exclusion have also consequences at the collective level. As a recent science-for-policy report published by the European Commission's Joint Research Center (JRC) on Loneliness in the EU. Insights from surveys and online media data stresses, "research shows that loneliness and social isolation have harmful repercussions on mental and physical health, as well as significant consequences on social cohesion and community trust." Synchronised resting time is an effective tool to counter loneliness.


In 2020.25% of EU citizens felt lonely more than half of the time.[

Loneliness in the EU. Insights from surveys and online media data.


Last September, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced in her speech on the State of the Union an upcoming initiative on mental health in 2023. In the context of this initiative, the European Sunday Alliance invites interested policy makers and stakeholders to also consider the importance of the quality of synchronised resting time for the mental health of workers, not least to further the debate on the establishment of a weekly common day of rest at the EU level for all citizens.

_____________________________________

The European Sunday Alliance is a broad network of more than 100 national Sunday Alliances, trade unions, employers' organisations, civil society organisations, churches and religious communities committed to raise awareness of the unique value of synchronised free time for our European societies.[/size]


Amo

https://europeansundayalliance.eu/statement-of-the-european-sunday-alliance-on-the-annual-european-day-for-a-work-free-sunday-on-march-3-2022/

Quoted article below from link above. Emphasis in blue is mine.

QuoteStatement of the European Sunday Alliance on the annual European Day for a Work-Free Sunday on March 3 2022

On March 3, the annual European Day for a Work-Free Sunday, the European Sunday Alliance calls on political leaders to put as a priority on the EU social policy agenda the establishment of a European weekly common day of rest.
Work-life balance, as well as healthy, safe and well-adapted work environments, are at the heart of the European Pillar of Social Rights, which all EU institutions and Member States governments have committed to implement.

A weekly day of rest
One of the major impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic has been the rise of telework and the fragmentation of working time, often detrimental to the work-life balance of workers. In order to prevent a work environment that compromises the health and wellbeing of workers, it is crucial to ensure a right to disconnect, during the week but also during the weekend, with a work free day. A full day of rest per week is indispensable to recover and to ensure both a better wellbeing and a better productivity of workers.

A common day of rest
Humans are social beings, and for many of them their health requires more than individual time to spend alone. The challenges of the pandemic have highlighted the issue of loneliness in the EU. A common work-free day enables families to spend time together, children with parents and grandparents, who are the first ones to suffer from loneliness. A work free day makes it also possible to pursue volunteer work, civic engagement, joint social, sports or faith-related activities, and, more generally, to strengthen the social cohesion of our communities.

By tradition and custom, most European countries establish the weekly day of rest on Sunday.

The European Sunday Alliance thus calls on European political leaders to put as a priority the establishment of a European weekly common day of rest for workers, by tradition on Sunday, as enshrined in Art. 2 of the European Social Charter.


DaveW

Interesting.  Were you aware that the European International Standards Organization (ISO) has defined the calendar with Sunday as the 7th day? ISO publication 8601 moved Sunday to the last day of the week and was first adopted in 1988.  It not only changed the order of days of the week, but also the length of the year.  It does away with months altogether.  It works on week number and day of the week number.  Not all of the provisions have been adopted in general population usage, like the lack of months and month dates. But putting Sunday as the 7th day has become adopted thru much of Europe. 


https://help.tableau.com/current/pro/desktop/en-us/dates_calendar.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday

Jaime

#642
Wasn't it the Beast who would think to change times and laws?  ::pondering::

Rella

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Apr 25, 2023 - 06:29:08
Wasn't it the Beast who would think to change times and laws?

Deserving of more study ( to be done later) I could not hep but think of the players in this direction and I am not... yet... thinking of those on 7 hills rofl (but am certain they are in this mix.)

Too coincidental to be ignored.

1. Michael J. Cohen, in his earlier book on Truman and Israel, states that in 1947 and 1948, "Truman arguably played the decisive diplomatic role in the birth of the new state of Israel."


2. https://www.newyork.org/history/how-and-why-israel-was-founded-in-1947
QuoteHow And Why Israel Was Founded In 1947
Illuminati, Nazis & The Illegal State of Israel
Baron Edmond de Rothschild built the first oil pipeline from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean to bring BP Iranian oil to Israel. He founded Israeli General Bank and Paz Oil and is considered the father of modern Israel. The Rothschilds are the planet's wealthiest clan, worth an estimated $100 trillion.

3. The ISO story began in 1946 when delegates from 25 countries gathered in London to discuss the future of standardization. A year later, on 23 February 1947, ISO officially came into existence. In this post-war era, the founding members saw International Standards as a key to the world's reconstruction efforts. ( the very ones who Dave W said " Were you aware that the European International Standards Organization (ISO) has defined the calendar with Sunday as the 7th day? )

Jaime asks...Wasn't it the Beast who would think to change times and laws?

Apparently so..... considering he either thinks to change times and law...suggesting the law of God ...or he sets himself in the Temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. The implication is that he has the authority to do these things ( Daniel 7:25; II Thessalonians 2:4 ).

The puzzle pieces are definitely falling more and more into the completion of that "end times" picture.

What a time to be alive....  ::eek::

Jaime

#644
Yes, it IS quite a time to be alive! With as fast as things are "progressing" today, it is a blessing my parents generation is quickly passing. Probably part of God's plan to keep each generation from melting down with the speed the world is melting down. My dad went into an immediate depression over the Oklahoma City bombing. He wouldn't have been able to take 911 and the ensuing craziness since.

Amo

Yes, very interesting. I've heard of the Sunday seventh day movement or what have you, but never dealt with any actual application, effecting anything I can see or tell.

DaveW

Quote from: Amo on Tue Apr 25, 2023 - 08:54:42
Yes, very interesting. I've heard of the Sunday seventh day movement or what have you, but never dealt with any actual application, effecting anything I can see or tell.
Try to buy a standard calendar in many places in Europe, Monday will be shown as the first day.  I have even seen that as an option in many computer calendars.

Texas Conservative

If Son'sDay is the 7th day, then I am keeping the Sabbath.    ::clappingoverhead::

Jaime

#648
That's the beast's plan. Change times and laws.

Amo

Kind of blows the whole celebrating the resurrection day theme, doesn't it?

Jaime

#650
I for one would like to see some discussion on celebrating resurrection day. A reasonable topic.

DaveW

Quote from: Jaime on Wed Apr 26, 2023 - 07:28:47
I for one would like to see some discussion on celebrating resurrection day. A reasonable topic.
Sounds like a good topic for a new thread.

Texas Conservative

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 26, 2023 - 06:59:16
Kind of blows the whole celebrating the resurrection day theme, doesn't it?

Resurrection Day would now be on the Sabbath.  We can update where it says first day in the NT to the 7th day. 

DaveW

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Apr 25, 2023 - 16:21:25
If Son'sDay is the 7th day, then I am keeping the Sabbath.    ::clappingoverhead::
I have heard the arguments of whether what we know as Saturday is actually the same 7th day that Moses was instructed to observe, given the various bouts of idolatry and the major dispersions of the Jewish people.  I say that we DO know that what we call Saturday was the same Sabbath our Lord Jesus kept 2000 years ago since the calendar has been meticulously kept since then.

And that is good enough for me.

Amo

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 26, 2023 - 08:18:48
Resurrection Day would now be on the Sabbath.  We can update where it says first day in the NT to the 7th day.

People may of course choose to update God's word as they please for themselves, because for now, God allows for such. But there will come a day when all such stand before Him to explain why they thought they had the authority to do so. The only acceptable answer will of course be, that they received such authority from Him. As some have claimed and do claim to this day concerning many things in God's word. Not the least of which, is concerning His seventh day Sabbath. I wouldn't want to be one who chose to update God's word without His direct authorization, let alone be one involved in forcing others to accept and observe such updates. I don't think such will end well. 

Amo


DaveW

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 26, 2023 - 21:43:30
People may of course choose to update God's word as they please for themselves, because for now, God allows for such.
Actually, no HE does not.  God says HIS word is unchanging.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.


I wrote a song back in 1973.  (senior in HS) 

You can't get to Chicago on a ticket to LA
You'll never reach the moon by driving down the old freeway.
Even though things are changing all around us here today
You'll never get to Heaven by changing God's written way.

No you can't get to Heaven on a re-written bible,
Satan's blocked the way.
SO the only way to get there is on
Jesus' side to stay  Hey hey.


While my theology needed a lot of work, and my song writing skills needed to be improved, the idea stands.  If we TRY to change the written Word of God, we will pay a very heavy price.

Deut. 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Prov. 30:6   
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Texas Conservative

I was just messing with you guys. 

The 7th day is always Saturday, and is the Sabbath.

I worship on the 1st day and also the 4th out of tradition.  As a Christian, and a gentile, I am also not under the Law of Moses. 

Jaime

i am not under the curse of the Law, which is the penalty of the Law. We have been freed from then PENALTY as Christians.

Texas Conservative


Amo

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Thu Apr 27, 2023 - 11:42:50
Not just the penalty.

I guess it all depends on what one means by the term under the law. Moses didn't have a law to be under, which didn't come from God. Though God did allow him to write or author as it were, certain laws, told to him by God. The ten commandments though, were uttered, authored, and written by God Himself. They are God's law, not Moses' law. And all of God's own are admonished to keep them right up to the last book and pages of holy scripture.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Amo

Quote from: DaveW on Thu Apr 27, 2023 - 09:01:24
Actually, no HE does not.  God says HIS word is unchanging.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.


I wrote a song back in 1973.  (senior in HS) 

You can't get to Chicago on a ticket to LA
You'll never reach the moon by driving down the old freeway.
Even though things are changing all around us here today
You'll never get to Heaven by changing God's written way.

No you can't get to Heaven on a re-written bible,
Satan's blocked the way.
SO the only way to get there is on
Jesus' side to stay  Hey hey.


While my theology needed a lot of work, and my song writing skills needed to be improved, the idea stands.  If we TRY to change the written Word of God, we will pay a very heavy price.

Deut. 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Prov. 30:6   
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


I agree, but God does allow for dissenting voices now, which He will not allow for after all is settled.

Texas Conservative

Quote from: Amo on Thu Apr 27, 2023 - 12:22:31
I guess it all depends on what one means by the term under the law. Moses didn't have a law to be under, which didn't come from God. Though God did allow him to write or author as it were, certain laws, told to him by God. The ten commandments though, were uttered, authored, and written by God Himself. They are God's law, not Moses' law. And all of God's own are admonished to keep them right up to the last book and pages of holy scripture.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Pretty weak. You must have never read Romans or Galatians to have that view.

Jaime

Our righteousness is not by the law, no one's ever was.

Amo

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Thu Apr 27, 2023 - 12:27:51
Pretty weak. You must have never read Romans or Galatians to have that view.

I don't consider any scriptures to be weak. Certainly not conclusive statements like the ones made in the scriptures I shared with you. Why do you consider them weak, and apparently some other scriptures in Romans or Galatians strong? Do the scriptures teach that some of them are weak and others are strong? To the contrary -

2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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