Breadwinning wives

[boringoldguy]

Wendy,

First of all you're making an assumption:   who said that day care ends when the kids start to school?    I know an awful lot of children who go from school straight to day care and don't see their parents until 5:30 or 6:00 p.m., or even later.
Usually, by then, the kids are too tired to want to talk about their day.

Now, to answer your question, I'm not a child-development expert, but I know some people with background in that area, and they tell me that most of a child's intellectual and personality development take place in the first few years of life.

The Jesuits used to say that if you gave them a child until the age of 6 years, he was theirs for life.  That might be a bit optimistic, but there is no way to overemphasize the importance of those first few years.

Or I can put it in a way that might be slightly more real to you:

Who do you want to hear that child's first word?

Who do you want to see that child's first step?

[kmv]

Boring, I'm looking for the place where I said 'priorities matter more than actualities'  Guess what, I can't find it.  

Now, what I said-I tried to be clearer the second time- is that child care arrangements are not the sole evidence of the families priorities.

Here's where I said it:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]You don't really think that our particular day care set up is the sole evidence of our family priorities, do you?  [/quote]

Here's where Wiley elaborated it:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I don't think we should be in a rush to judgement based on that one parameter.  The family priorities that Kari was talking about, IMO, will always include what is best for the child within the parent's capabilities[/quote]

And here's where Winky rephrased it:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]There is a difference betweeen saying that day care is not the sole evidence of family priorities (I imagine that everyone would agree on that) and saying that family child care choices don't matter[/quote]

Now, is it clear enough yet?



Yes, some families have two working parents because the family places a higher priority on nice vacations and state-of-the-art  electronics than on the children's welfare.  And some families have a stay-at-home parent because the parents place higher priority on their reputation in the community and church than they do on how their children actually come out.

Now, you're wondering why I had children "if all (I) do with them is pack them off to the daycare" and I'm wondering if you only had children so you'd look good to others.

How about if we both acknowledge that we know nothing about what's best for the other's family?

You're way out of line with the 'why do they even bother having children...' crack, and you owe me and everyone else an apology.  


[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]My question is, assuming that you find qualified, competent, preferably even Christian care-givers (day care, in-home care, whatever), how is "packing them off to day care" for 3 or 4 years before they reach school age any different than "packing them off to school" for 12 years of their lives?[/quote]

While the earlier years are different in that mistakes in the infant and preschool years can be much more likely to be permanent that mistakes in the elementary years, the only automatic difference is that lots more people who don't know what they're talking about are willing to condemn you for daycare than school.

I've worked fulltime, worked parttime and stayed home fulltime in the last twelve years.  All had their good points, all had their bad.  I've seen high quality child care and bad, bad child care.  I've also seen high quality parenting and bad, bad parenting.  

When my husband and I both worked fulltime, we had to make certain changes in our 'lifestyle' to make it work.  We pretty much gave up entertainment, social life and housecleaning.  Entertainment became the trip to WalMart to exchange our paychecks for diapers, social life became dinner at my relatives or his, and housecleaning became scooping the toys off the couch and wiping off the coffee table.

[boringoldguy]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (kmv @ Nov. 24 2003,10:44)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]It doesn't matter what our family childcare choices are.  It matters what our family PRIORITIES are.  [/quote]
It's right there Kari, and you said it.

You said it doesn't matter what choices we make (actuality), but that our priorities matter.

I say that in most cases, choices reveal priorities.

[kmv]

Like I said, boring-when you didn't understand that post, I clarified in the second.  Now, was the second clear, or are you still confused?

If you need further clarification, I'm certainly glad to provide it, but I really can't imagine how to break it down further than "child care arrangements are not the sole evidence of the families priorities."  I'm a bit afraid that if you can't understand that sentence, you may just never get it.

Now, I've heard you pass a lot of judgement on a lot of folks on this board, but I'll admit I'm still amazed at your arrogance in this.  Imagine having the ability to discern other people's motives for having children, just from what you think their childcare arrangements are!

Wow.  Most of us have to leave that to God.

[Skip]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (winky @ Nov. 26 2003,11:57)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]OK. This question is going to probably just highlight my ignorance for everyone to see, but I'm going to go under the assumption that I was always taught in school "There's no such thing as a stupid question."

As a preface, my husband and I hope and intend with all our might to be able to stay home with the kids until they are school age. Right now, it's not possible, which is why we're holding off on having kids.

My question is, assuming that you find qualified, competent, preferably even Christian care-givers (day care, in-home care, whatever), how is "packing them off to day care" for 3 or 4 years before they reach school age any different than "packing them off to school" for 12 years of their lives?[/quote]
That's why we homeschool.

--Skip

[WileyClarkson]

Skip,

While I am a supporter of homeschooling, we did not homeschool our kids.  We sent ours to those horrible old public schools  ;) because it worked out better for us.  Actually we have a very good public scool system in our town/rural area.  It has less than 200 students from K-12, still plays 6 man football (there's nothing more exciting than 6 man ball), and anyone who wants to be on a school sponsered ball team can be--no one is left out.  Just bragging a little.    :D   We seriously considered homeschooling, but neither my wife or I were capable of doing that educationally or financially.  Any one who believes homeschooling is cheaper than sending the kids to public schools has got their heads buried in the sand!  The time required is also extremly intensive, depending on the student.  

Now, before going on, let me say that I am very much up on homeschooling.  My neices and nephews have been homeschooled all the way through high school and they are extremly bright students--much brighter, IMO, than most PS kids.  Their parents, however, are both college graduates (attended public schools before that), and my brother has an M.Div.  He also is the founder of Wholeheart Ministries, which is a ministry dedicated to homeschooling parents.  He and his wife have published a number of books and put on lectures all over the US and in Europe.  You may have heaqrd of them, being in homeschooling.  I run across people all the time who have.

Homeschooling is not the overall answer for everyone, but I trust it is working well for you and your family.  I have seen some absolutely awful homeschool parents and the results of those parents who try that just to keep the kids out of public school.  Their priorities (in cases that I know of) were to save money over the expense of the public schools.  Wrong priorities!  The kids were put last.  They would have been much better off if the parent had just gone to work and left them to a Public school or day care (and these were people in the CoC in my area!).

[WileyClarkson]

Wendy,

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]My question is, assuming that you find qualified, competent, preferably even Christian care-givers (day care, in-home care, whatever), how is "packing them off to day care" for 3 or 4 years before they reach school age any different than "packing them off to school" for 12 years of their lives?
[/quote]

I think in the end, the principles are the same.   We let the Public Schools provide the day care and most of it is not really very good, considering how much can happen.   Since there is as much growing and discovering done by the child during his 12 years in the PS system as at any other time in their lives, I can't see a whole lot of difference.

I glad BOG was able to do what many of us can't/couldn't afford--keep his wife at home with the kids until they can be packed off to the public schools.  We were very fortunate to be in a position that we had grandparents to help out with ours.  The kids were packed off to them a buinch!  We had no day cares in our area we could use anyway in our case.