Go an baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

[xheathen]

Matt 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
NIV



The apostles were told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Church has taken the above to mean that when anyone accepts the Jesus as Lord and savior they are to baptize them using the formula above.  



Acts 2:38-39

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 10:46-48

Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
NIV

Acts 19:4-5

4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
NIV



It seems as though the Apostles baptized converts into the name of Jesus. But in Matt 28:19 the Apostles were told to baptize in the name of the  Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It would seem as though there was a contradiction between what they were told to do and what they did.

Acts 8:17
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 19:6-7
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
NIV



Baptizing in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit seems to have taken place when the apostles placed their hands on them. There are two exceptions that did not require the laying on of hands. One was Pentecost and the other was in Acts 10 when God showed that He was offering salvation to the gentiles.

So does that mean if you are baptized only in the name of Jesus and do not get the baptism of the Father and Holy Spirit that you are not saved?


Acts 8:26-40

26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road — the desert road — that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
"He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,so he did not open his mouth. 33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.Who can speak of his descendants?For his life was taken from the earth."
34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"  38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
NIV

It seems as though one is saved if they have only been baptized in the name of Jesus. Otherwise I doubt if Phillip would have been sent to the Ethiopian. The Phillip above is one of the deacons chosen in Acts 8.  It also seems as though the authority of men to baptism in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit ended with the Apostles.

[xheathen]

It would seem as though only the apostles were sent out to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Second generation and later believers can only baptize in the name of Jesus. Being baptized into Jesus means you are saved but there are no outward manifestations of the spirit.

Which brings into question another scripture in Jesus' conversation with the disciples immediately after His resurrection.

Mark 16:17-18
7 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
NIV

The above although in another gospel is part of that discourse immediately after Jesus' resurrection. Nowhere in the bible do we read that all believers could ever do the above. As a matter of fact none of the apostles ever did all of them that we know of . Only one apostle, backed by scripture, did three of the above. Paul did all but drink poison. There is tradition that the apostle John was poisoned and it did not kill him.

So scripture supports that Mark 16:17-18 applies to apostles and only apostles. And I believe if anyone ever claims to have seen Jesus and to be sent out by Him as a messenger will also be able to do what is written in Mark 16:17-18 and in Matthew 28:19.

I believe that God has given His children a way to test those claiming to be apostles.

I am not saying that we should poison or have those claiming to be apostles stick their hands into a rattlesnake nest. Matt 28:19 would be sufficient if you personally  knew the people involved.

[grace]

Are you saying only the apostles can do great wonders and miraculous signs? 

Who do you say qualifies to be an apostle?

[xheathen]

Are you saying only the apostles can do great wonders and miraculous signs? 

Who do you say qualifies to be an apostle?

An apostle means one sent out by another as a messenger or envoy. So in one sense we are all envoys because we all represent Jesus.  As used in acts and the epistles the term apostle seems to have been limited to the 11 disciples plus Paul. In other words those who had been singled out by Jesus for leading His church. ( It might have been applied to the 120 at Pentecost who were baptized with tongues of fire because they all seen to me to meet the requirements)

So if someone tells me that they have seen Jesus and he sent them out with a message. Then I interpret that to mean he is claiming to be an apostle in the same way Paul was made an apostle.


We know that second generation believers could:

1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

but:

1 Cor 12:29-31
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
NIV

The implied answer to 1 Cor 12:29-31 is no. In 1 cor 17:7 it states that the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. Which means these manifestations are given as needed. If God determines they are not needed He doesn't give them. As I stated earlier in acts 8 no manifestation was given to believers until Peter and John laid hands on them. In acts 19 they were baptized into the name of Jesus and displayed manifestations of the Spirit only after Paul laid hands on them.

But every apostle was marked by:

2 Cor 12:12-13
12 The things that mark an apostle — signs, wonders and miracles — were done among you with great perseverance.
NIV

Now one sign of apostleship in acts was baptizing believers in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost.


Can believers in this generation display some manifestations of the Spirit?

As shown at Pentecost and in acts 10, God can  give manifestations of the Spirit whenever He wants.

Does this answer your question?

[Dr. Truth]

Matt 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
NIV



The apostles were told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Church has taken the above to mean that when anyone accepts the Jesus as Lord and savior they are to baptize them using the formula above.  



Acts 2:38-39

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 10:46-48

Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
NIV

Acts 19:4-5

4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
NIV



It seems as though the Apostles baptized converts into the name of Jesus. But in Matt 28:19 the Apostles were told to baptize in the name of the  Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It would seem as though there was a contradiction between what they were told to do and what they did.

Acts 8:17
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 19:6-7
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
NIV



Baptizing in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit seems to have taken place when the apostles placed their hands on them. There are two exceptions that did not require the laying on of hands. One was Pentecost and the other was in Acts 10 when God showed that He was offering salvation to the gentiles.

So does that mean if you are baptized only in the name of Jesus and do not get the baptism of the Father and Holy Spirit that you are not saved?


Acts 8:26-40

26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road — the desert road — that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
"He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,so he did not open his mouth. 33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.Who can speak of his descendants?For his life was taken from the earth."
34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"  38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
NIV

It seems as though one is saved if they have only been baptized in the name of Jesus. Otherwise I doubt if Phillip would have been sent to the Ethiopian. The Phillip above is one of the deacons chosen in Acts 8.  It also seems as though the authority of men to baptism in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit ended with the Apostles.

Matt 28: 19 is the onle Biblical reference we have of how to baptise people, And it is in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.

The meaning of the Apostles in the book of Acts, Is, baptising them INTO the name of Jesus. NOT, IN the name of Jesus.

[Dr. Truth]

Are you saying only the apostles can do great wonders and miraculous signs? 

Who do you say qualifies to be an apostle?

An apostle means one sent out by another as a messenger or envoy. So in one sense we are all envoys because we all represent Jesus.  As used in acts and the epistles the term apostle seems to have been limited to the 11 disciples plus Paul. In other words those who had been singled out by Jesus for leading His church. ( It might have been applied to the 120 at Pentecost who were baptized with tongues of fire because they all seen to me to meet the requirements)

So if someone tells me that they have seen Jesus and he sent them out with a message. Then I interpret that to mean he is claiming to be an apostle in the same way Paul was made an apostle.


We know that second generation believers could:

1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

but:

1 Cor 12:29-31
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
NIV

The implied answer to 1 Cor 12:29-31 is no. In 1 cor 17:7 it states that the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. Which means these manifestations are given as needed. If God determines they are not needed He doesn't give them. As I stated earlier in acts 8 no manifestation was given to believers until Peter and John laid hands on them. In acts 19 they were baptized into the name of Jesus and displayed manifestations of the Spirit only after Paul laid hands on them.

But every apostle was marked by:

2 Cor 12:12-13
12 The things that mark an apostle — signs, wonders and miracles — were done among you with great perseverance.
NIV

Now one sign of apostleship in acts was baptizing believers in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost.


Can believers in this generation display some manifestations of the Spirit?

As shown at Pentecost and in acts 10, God can  give manifestations of the Spirit whenever He wants.

Does this answer your question?

Not everyone is in the five fold Ministry, The,
Apostle Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher.
But every Christian should have a at least one of the gifts of the Spirit.

They are in three groups,

The revelation group.
The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge and the discerning of Spirits.
These all reveal something.


The Insperation group.
Prophecy, Divers tongues and the interpretaion of tongue.
These all say something.

The power group.
The working of miracles, The gifts of healings and special faith.
These all do something.

They tell us that God want's to  reveal something to the Church and through the Church.
Speak to the Church and through the Church..And.
Do something for the Church and through the Chruch.


If God determines the manifestation of the gift, How come God told us to stir the gift up, How come God told us not to neglect the gift.
When a person has a gift, They can use it whenever there is a need, And as they act in faith, God will use that gift through them.

[grace]

Are you saying only the apostles can do great wonders and miraculous signs? 

Who do you say qualifies to be an apostle?

An apostle means one sent out by another as a messenger or envoy. So in one sense we are all envoys because we all represent Jesus.  As used in acts and the epistles the term apostle seems to have been limited to the 11 disciples plus Paul. In other words those who had been singled out by Jesus for leading His church. ( It might have been applied to the 120 at Pentecost who were baptized with tongues of fire because they all seen to me to meet the requirements)

So if someone tells me that they have seen Jesus and he sent them out with a message. Then I interpret that to mean he is claiming to be an apostle in the same way Paul was made an apostle.


We know that second generation believers could:

1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

but:

1 Cor 12:29-31
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
NIV

The implied answer to 1 Cor 12:29-31 is no. In 1 cor 17:7 it states that the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. Which means these manifestations are given as needed. If God determines they are not needed He doesn't give them. As I stated earlier in acts 8 no manifestation was given to believers until Peter and John laid hands on them. In acts 19 they were baptized into the name of Jesus and displayed manifestations of the Spirit only after Paul laid hands on them.

But every apostle was marked by:

2 Cor 12:12-13
12 The things that mark an apostle — signs, wonders and miracles — were done among you with great perseverance.
NIV

Now one sign of apostleship in acts was baptizing believers in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost.


Can believers in this generation display some manifestations of the Spirit?

As shown at Pentecost and in acts 10, God can  give manifestations of the Spirit whenever He wants.

Does this answer your question?

Not everyone is in the five fold Ministry, The,
Apostle Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher.
But every Christian should have a at least one of the gifts of the Spirit.

They are in three groups,

The revelation group.
The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge and the discerning of Spirits.
These all reveal something.


The Insperation group.
Prophecy, Divers tongues and the interpretaion of tongue.
These all say something.

The power group.
The working of miracles, The gifts of healings and special faith.
These all do something.

They tell us that God want's to  reveal something to the Church and through the Church.
Speak to the Church and through the Church..And.
Do something for the Church and through the Chruch.


If God determines the manifestation of the gift, How come God told us to stir the gift up, How come God told us not to neglect the gift.
When a person has a gift, They can use it whenever there is a need, And as they act in faith, God will use that gift through them.

That is how I understand it too!

[xheathen]

Matt 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
NIV



The apostles were told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Church has taken the above to mean that when anyone accepts the Jesus as Lord and savior they are to baptize them using the formula above.  



Acts 2:38-39

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 10:46-48

Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
NIV

Acts 19:4-5

4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
NIV



It seems as though the Apostles baptized converts into the name of Jesus. But in Matt 28:19 the Apostles were told to baptize in the name of the  Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It would seem as though there was a contradiction between what they were told to do and what they did.

Acts 8:17
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
NIV

Acts 19:6-7
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
NIV



Baptizing in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit seems to have taken place when the apostles placed their hands on them. There are two exceptions that did not require the laying on of hands. One was Pentecost and the other was in Acts 10 when God showed that He was offering salvation to the gentiles.

So does that mean if you are baptized only in the name of Jesus and do not get the baptism of the Father and Holy Spirit that you are not saved?


Acts 8:26-40

26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road — the desert road — that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
"He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,so he did not open his mouth. 33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.Who can speak of his descendants?For his life was taken from the earth."
34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"  38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
NIV

It seems as though one is saved if they have only been baptized in the name of Jesus. Otherwise I doubt if Phillip would have been sent to the Ethiopian. The Phillip above is one of the deacons chosen in Acts 8.  It also seems as though the authority of men to baptism in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit ended with the Apostles.

Matt 28: 19 is the onle Biblical reference we have of how to baptise people, And it is in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.

The meaning of the Apostles in the book of Acts, Is, baptising them INTO the name of Jesus. NOT, IN the name of Jesus.

Since I don' t know how to make multiple quotes I'll just discuss the one item first then we'll deal with the rest.

Matt 28:19-20
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
NIV


Acts 10:48
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
NIV

As I read the two above they are looking forward to the baptism. Mathew and acts same words.


Acts 8:16
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
NIV



Acts 19:5-6
5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
NIV

The two above are past tense.

So into or in has to do tense.

[xheathen]

Are you saying only the apostles can do great wonders and miraculous signs? 

Who do you say qualifies to be an apostle?

An apostle means one sent out by another as a messenger or envoy. So in one sense we are all envoys because we all represent Jesus.  As used in acts and the epistles the term apostle seems to have been limited to the 11 disciples plus Paul. In other words those who had been singled out by Jesus for leading His church. ( It might have been applied to the 120 at Pentecost who were baptized with tongues of fire because they all seen to me to meet the requirements)

So if someone tells me that they have seen Jesus and he sent them out with a message. Then I interpret that to mean he is claiming to be an apostle in the same way Paul was made an apostle.


We know that second generation believers could:

1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

but:

1 Cor 12:29-31
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
NIV

The implied answer to 1 Cor 12:29-31 is no. In 1 cor 17:7 it states that the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. Which means these manifestations are given as needed. If God determines they are not needed He doesn't give them. As I stated earlier in acts 8 no manifestation was given to believers until Peter and John laid hands on them. In acts 19 they were baptized into the name of Jesus and displayed manifestations of the Spirit only after Paul laid hands on them.

But every apostle was marked by:

2 Cor 12:12-13
12 The things that mark an apostle — signs, wonders and miracles — were done among you with great perseverance.
NIV

Now one sign of apostleship in acts was baptizing believers in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost.


Can believers in this generation display some manifestations of the Spirit?

As shown at Pentecost and in acts 10, God can  give manifestations of the Spirit whenever He wants.

Does this answer your question?

Not everyone is in the five fold Ministry, The,
Apostle Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher.
But every Christian should have a at least one of the gifts of the Spirit.

They are in three groups,

The revelation group.
The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge and the discerning of Spirits.
These all reveal something.


The Insperation group.
Prophecy, Divers tongues and the interpretaion of tongue.
These all say something.

The power group.
The working of miracles, The gifts of healings and special faith.
These all do something.

They tell us that God want's to  reveal something to the Church and through the Church.
Speak to the Church and through the Church..And.
Do something for the Church and through the Chruch.


If God determines the manifestation of the gift, How come God told us to stir the gift up, How come God told us not to neglect the gift.
When a person has a gift, They can use it whenever there is a need, And as they act in faith, God will use that gift through them.

I did not say that we of this generation did not get any gifts. I was talking about manifestations of the  Spirit. Manifestations meaning visible signs. If I said that gifts ended with the apostles I was wrong.

The below gifts are given and there is no immediate outward sign. The reason that these gifts are listed by themselves in other places as gifts is they are not options.

We all are given the following gifts:   Ro 5:17 Righteousness, Ro  6:23 eternal life, Eph 2:8 faith ,Eph 3:7 grace.

There are also other less claimed gifts that don't have an immediate outward display.


In 1 Cor 12:28 is teaching, helps and administration.



I'm also of the mind that maybe God would bless His people more if they obeyed His word. God doesn't want His people to make doctrines based on tradition and just a cursory reading of His word. Doctrines should be compared to all scripture to determine if its true. Acts is the main epistle where we can observe how the apostles carried out the act of baptism. And the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus with water and the laying on of hands for the Father and Holy Ghost. When the hands were laid on then the manifestations were there. In acts only the apostles laid on hands with accompanying manifestations.

The one notable exception is the disciple Ananias laying hands on Paul in acts 9. Paul  was filled with the Holy Spirit and the scales fell off his eyes. The manifestation was not a listed gift but a cure for his blindness. He was then baptized and through it all no manifestation (except for the scales falling) of the Spirit is mentioned. Paul does not display any extraordinary powers (outside of preaching) until after going down to Jerusalem and meeting with the apostles. We have no exact time as to when he saw Jesus and became an apostle.

[xheathen]

Certain gifts are given for the good of the believer.
Every believer has all of these gifts :   RI 5:17 Righteousness, RI  6:23 eternal life, Eh 2:8 faith ,Eh 3:7 grace.


The below gifts are given for the good of the body of Christ. God determines if they are needed and who gets them. It should be noted that its the worldwide body and not each individual church. So its possible a church may not have any.


1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

Dr Truth was correct. I said that the manifested gifts ended with the apostles. What I meant was that the manifested gifts given with the laying on of hands in acts ended with the apostles. By the scriptures only apostles have that ability.

[xheathen]

 I was  asked two questions in a message.

Where does it say that that gifts given by laying on of hands ended with the apostles.

Where does it say that apostleship ended? And I was to give two references for each.

I cannot give two scriptures that state either of the above.  There are beliefs such as the rapture that are  not stated directly but can be inferred from scripture. Needless to say on such beliefs there are many different ideas on those items. Pertrib, posttrib and no trib. All believers and only obedient believers in the rapture. 


If the command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and  Holy Spirit was blanket command for all Christians to follow then Peter (Acts 10:47-48), Paul (Acts 19:5)and Phillip (Acts 8:16) were all disobeying God. At the very least Jesus would have let His church know that they were wrong in violating His  command by at least verbal correction in the scriptures .  Therefore, I believe that all three baptized properly. I do not add words to God's word saying that in or into means that the correct words were used, unless it is supported by scripture. I see no such support so in and into is signifying tense.

In Peter's case God baptized them in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit when the Spirit came on them (Acts 10:44) then Peter ordered water baptism    in the name of Jesus.    Paul baptized them         in the name of Jesus    by water, laid on hands and the Spirit came on them and completed the ritual. Phillip baptized in the name of Jesus with water baptism. Then Peter and John traveled to Samaria, laid hands on them and baptized them in the name of the Father and Holy Spiritl.

I believe the reason they did this to confirm to the church in Jerusalem  that God had granted salvation to the Samaritans whom the Jews thought were out of God's favor. The truth is established by two witnesses so two apostles were sent. It was not done to complete their salvation. Baptism in Jesus' name gives no immediate outward sign to confirm salvation . Because the apostles could baptize in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit with the outward manifestation it would prove that God had accepted them. When Simon saw (acts 8:18)  that the spirit was given by the laying on of the apostles hands  means there was an outward manifestation of the gifts. Now if the Samaritans had not been saved prior to the  laying on of hands the apostles would have ordered water baptism as Peter did in acts 10. Therefore, water baptism in the name of Jesus means you are  filled with the Spirit of Jesus with no outward signs of salvation. And baptism in the name of Father and Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands and the Spirit is upon you with visible confirmation of salvation.


In Acts 9 Ananias (a disciple not apostle)  laid hands on Saul (Paul) to restore his vision. Saul was filled with the Spirit and scales fell off. The Spirit did not come on him and he did not speak in tongues or show any other immediate outward gifts. Because of this even the believers in Damascus were leery of him.

I have shown two references to support my claim that the apostles are the lowest in the kingdom of God with ability to give gifts through the laying on of hands. It also supports my claim that only the apostles were authorized to baptize in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit. Unless you can show one scripture that disputes that claim.


2 Cor 12:12
12 The things that mark an apostle — signs, wonders and miracles — were done among you with great perseverance.
NIV

I cannot give two scriptures to prove apostleship has ended. Apostles can do the above consistently. Nothing in the history of the church  suggests that anyone other than the twelve displayed the above signs. There may have been people that gave signs or wonders or miracles but not all three. God can appoint apostles or give the manifest signs whenever He wants.

[xheathen]

In another section of this board ( apologetics ) this same topic is being discussed. Someone there seems to agree with my conclusion (about the words for baptism) but other reasons are given. I have chosen to voice my disagreements with  some of their reasons here (I am dealing only with those that seem plausible) because I do not want to intrude in their discussion. (It is also obvious that they do not want to discuss it with me so I will respect that) They do  cite other scriptures to support their conclusions so if your reading this and disagree with me, maybe their arguments will prove more beneficial to you.


I'm just restating what I've already said but maybe in another, hopefully clearer, way.




Acts 8:15-17
15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
NIV

In Acts8:16 above the reason given for Peter and John traveling to Samaria was because   the Holy Spirit had not come upon them. And the reason given for that is because        they had   simply  been baptized into the name of Jesus.      To me its clear that the Holy Spirit (when He inspired Luke to write this account) is explaining why the  Holy Spirit had not come upon the Samaritans. If everyone was being baptized in the name of Jesus then why would the phrase  "simply been baptized in the name of Jesus

[Dr. Truth]

Certain gifts are given for the good of the believer.
Every believer has all of these gifts :   RI 5:17 Righteousness, RI  6:23 eternal life, Eh 2:8 faith ,Eh 3:7 grace.


The below gifts are given for the good of the body of Christ. God determines if they are needed and who gets them. It should be noted that its the worldwide body and not each individual church. So its possible a church may not have any.


1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.  11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
NIV

Dr Truth was correct. I said that the manifested gifts ended with the apostles. What I meant was that the manifested gifts given with the laying on of hands in acts ended with the apostles. By the scriptures only apostles have that ability.

Nothing ended with the Apostles, Because the Apostles haven't ended yet, And they won't this side of etermity.
Eph 4: 11.
Philip wasn't an Apostle, But in Acts 8, We see him doing healings and miracles.
Ananias was only a disciple, But God used him to get Saul [Paul] filled with the Holy Ghost.

[xheathen]

I got sidetracked, the main point of this topic is the formula for baptism. It should be in the name of Jesus. I believe that its been proven

[kjb1769]

In the opening post a reference was made to Acts 8:26-40 vs 37 was omitted and in verse 37 there is a requirement of the eunach before Philip would baptise him.

What was that requirement ?

[xheathen]

In the opening post a reference was made to Acts 8:26-40 vs 37 was omitted and in verse 37 there is a requirement of the eunach before Philip would baptise him.

What was that requirement ?

Acts 8:37

37 And Philip said unto him, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. Then he answered, and said, I believe that that Jesus Christ is that Son of God.
GENEVA


The version that I quoted did not include verse 37.