The Fullness of the Everlasting Gospel

[larry2]

The Book of Mormon is a volume of the holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel.  Elder Hatch (A Mormon elder I was talking to) didn't believe it was complete, and yet Joseph Smith states that Moroni said that the fullness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it (the Bible), as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants.  Question - if one is the fullness and don't say what the other says, how can they both be the fullness. 3rd & 4th pages of Introduction of the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 29:9-10  . . Because I have spoken one word, ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another: for my work is not yet finished. . -  (10)  Wherefore, because that ye have a bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

In Colossians 1.25-26, Paul states  "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;  26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:"

Gal !:8 says if we or an angel of heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed. (the finished word which was hidden from other ages is now being given to you by Jesus Christ through Paul whom it was revealed to, so don't add any other doctrines to it)

The word  "fulfill"  according to the Strongs concordance is as follows -

4137 plhrow pleroo play-ro'-o

from 4134; TDNT-6:286,867; v

AV-fulfil 51, fill 19, be full 7, complete 2, end 2, misc 9; 90

1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Fulfill  in the thesaurus = accomplish - achieve, carry out, complete, consummate, discharge, effect, execute, perfect
   
Perform - discharge, implement, do, obey, observe

Satisfy - answer, comply with, fill, meet

Complete - conclude, end, finish, terminate

Fulfill or fulfil in Webster's  =

   1a - to put into effect   1b - to bring to an end   1c - to measure up to: satisfy

   2a - to convert into reality   2b - to develop the full potentialities of

   Sym - see perform      

[the_last_gunslinger]

The Book of Mormon is a volume of the holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel.  Elder Hatch (A Mormon elder I was talking to) didn't believe it was complete, and yet Joseph Smith states that Moroni said that the fullness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it (the Bible), as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants.  Question - if one is the fullness and don't say what the other says, how can they both be the fullness. 3rd & 4th pages of Introduction of the Book of Mormon.

This is a very good question, and I believe it is possible for both the Book of Mormon and the Holy Bible to contain the fulness of the gospel, even if they are not exact in what they say and are perceived as incomplete. But to understand how, one must know how we interpret "fulness of the gospel." I'm sure you know that gospel literally means 'good news,' but good news of what? It is the good news that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God come to earth to atone for our sins, making it possible for all who believe on his name to obtain everlasting life. 3rd Nephi 27:13-19 gives an account of a sermon by Jesus Christ to the Nephites where he plainly defined what the gospel was:

Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you–that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil–

And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

Essentially then, the gospel pertains to the fact that Christ was sent by the Father, was crucified for our sins, that all men will be judged before God according to their works, and that all men may be saved because of Christ's atonement if they believe, are baptized and endure to the end. Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon contain this message in remarkable clarity. All of the specific doctrines and practices are only appendages to the gospel

2 Nephi 29:9-10  . . Because I have spoken one word, ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another: for my work is not yet finished. . -  (10)  Wherefore, because that ye have a bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

In Colossians 1.25-26, Paul states  "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;  26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:"

Gal !:8 says if we or an angel of heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed. (the finished word which was hidden from other ages is now being given to you by Jesus Christ through Paul whom it was revealed to, so don't add any other doctrines to it)

I don't believe these verses run counter to the claim of possessing the fulness of the gospel. Even if the scriptures are incomplete, or if there is more to come (and I think there is) it does not change the fact that the "gospel" has always been preached in its fulness, even if all the specifics have not always been made known.

I hope I interpreted your charge correctly and answered it in a way that is satisfactory. These are good questions that provoke a tremendous amount of thought.

[larry2]

The Book of Mormon is a volume of the holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel.  Elder Hatch (A Mormon elder I was talking to) didn't believe it was complete, and yet Joseph Smith states that Moroni said that the fullness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it (the Bible), as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants.  Question - if one is the fullness and don't say what the other says, how can they both be the fullness. 3rd & 4th pages of Introduction of the Book of Mormon.

This is a very good question, and I believe it is possible for both the Book of Mormon and the Holy Bible to contain the fulness of the gospel, even if they are not exact in what they say and are perceived as incomplete. But to understand how, one must know how we interpret "fulness of the gospel." I'm sure you know that gospel literally means 'good news,' but good news of what? It is the good news that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God come to earth to atone for our sins, making it possible for all who believe on his name to obtain everlasting life. 3rd Nephi 27:13-19 gives an account of a sermon by Jesus Christ to the Nephites where he plainly defined what the gospel was:

Possibly I did not make clear what I believe the word "Fulfill" encapsulates in Colossians 1:25. In Strong's Concordance it suggests an end of, completeness, as well as the fullness of; thus the warning of Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Have you actually studied the differences in the bible and that which is told by Joseph Smith; the additions, the differences, etc.? Thanks, and we can cover them individually if you like.

4137 plhrow pleroo play-ro'-o

from 4134; TDNT-6:286,867; v

AV-fulfil 51, fill 19, be full 7, complete 2, end 2, misc 9; 90

1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment   

[the_last_gunslinger]

Possibly I did not make clear what I believe the word "Fulfill" encapsulates in Colossians 1:25. In Strong's Concordance it suggests an end of, completeness, as well as the fullness of; thus the warning of Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Have you actually studied the differences in the bible and that which is told by Joseph Smith; the additions, the differences, etc.? Thanks, and we can cover them individually if you like.

I don't believe there is a discrepancy between Galatians 1:8, especially in light of how we define "gospel." What this verse says is 100 percent true. I believe that the  gospel that Paul is speaking of here is that of Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice. The warning of any other gospel, I feel, would be one that runs counter to that which claims Christ as the sole way to eternal life. But assuming that it is speaking more specifically about the doctrines and practices that spring from the doctrine, this cure or warning has efficacy only if one is to assume that one belief system is right and the other is not. Since this verse does not give a laundry list of acceptable beliefs that makes one gospel true and the other false, it is open for interpretation.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean between differences in the Bible and what is told by Joseph Smith. I have studied both extensively and do not find that they are counter to each other.

I might still be missing the point of what you are trying to prove with this verse from Galatians, but how do you interpret "gospel" in this sense?

[larry2]

Possibly I did not make clear what I believe the word "Fulfill" encapsulates in Colossians 1:25. In Strong's Concordance it suggests an end of, completeness, as well as the fullness of; thus the warning of Galatians 1:8. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Have you actually studied the differences in the bible and that which is told by Joseph Smith; the additions, the differences, etc.? Thanks, and we can cover them individually if you like.

I don't believe there is a discrepancy between Galatians 1:8, especially in light of how we define "gospel." What this verse says is 100 percent true. I believe that the  gospel that Paul is speaking of here is that of Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice. The warning of any other gospel, I feel, would be one that runs counter to that which claims Christ as the sole way to eternal life. But assuming that it is speaking more specifically about the doctrines and practices that spring from the doctrine, this cure or warning has efficacy only if one is to assume that one belief system is right and the other is not. Since this verse does not give a laundry list of acceptable beliefs that makes one gospel true and the other false, it is open for interpretation.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean between differences in the Bible and what is told by Joseph Smith. I have studied both extensively and do not find that they are counter to each other.

I might still be missing the point of what you are trying to prove with this verse from Galatians, but how do you interpret "gospel" in this sense?

The warning of any other gospel, I feel, would be one that runs counter to that which claims Christ as the sole way to eternal life.

Dear Gunslinger, things I do not agree with are:

7 And again, I would that ye should learn that he only is saved who endureth unto the end. Even so. Amen.

Even though the above doctrine is based on scripture; Matthew 24:13  "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved," they apply it out of context. Matthew Chapter Twenty-four covers the second half of the tribulation and those saved through it are physically saved to enter the millennium. We're told in some of the following scripture of our spiritual salvation.

Romans 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.
Acts 16:31  And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 5:11  And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, . .   

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The two separate thoughts differing between the Apostle Paul and LDS concerning salvation are contradictory to one another. I'll leave off with this at this time so as to not get too spread out on what we're discussing.

Thanks.

[the_last_gunslinger]

Even though the above doctrine is based on scripture; Matthew 24:13  "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved," they apply it out of context. Matthew Chapter Twenty-four covers the second half of the tribulation and those saved through it are physically saved to enter the millennium. We're told in some of the following scripture of our spiritual salvation.

To me, enduring to the end is essential to the Christian faith. Even if it is not spelled out as such in the Bible. I look at enduring to the end as holding fast to the faith in the face of trials and tribulations. This spirit of endurance was epitomized by Christ's earlier followers, those who continued in the faith even though their very life was in jeopardy. What if the apostles, when challenged by various hardships, decided to just call it quits and stopped preaching, stopped following the gospel, abandoned the faith? This is what I think it means to endure to the end, and I think salvation would be a pretty hard thing to come by if you relinquished what you believed because of opposition.

Romans 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.
Acts 16:31  And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 5:11  And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, . .   

I would agree with every one of these statements. First and foremost a belief in Jesus Christ is needed for salvation. But a belief in Christ, I feel, entails following his word and his council, his commandments. I don't think the above statements are meant to be an exhaustive definition of all that is required for salvation.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The two separate thoughts differing between the Apostle Paul and LDS concerning salvation are contradictory to one another. I'll leave off with this at this time so as to not get too spread out on what we're discussing.

I see no contradiction. The Latter-day Saints affirm the above scriptures. I think this comes down to a misunderstanding on both parties regarding the faith/works debate. We do not believe that we are justified by our works. They alone cannot save us. Had Christ not died for our sins, we would be lost, regardless of how well we lived our lives. But, we believe that works make our faith whole. I don't believe someone is truly a faithful follower of Christ if they proclaim such in name only but do not patter their life after him to the best of their abilities.