my wife is unilaterally celibate how do i manage this

[scullions]

she is decided, she isnt interested in counselling , discussing the issue , i love her but i need loving sexual union
what do i do?

[Jimmy]

Many here will disagree with me, but if I were in your place, I would consider her to be sexually unfaithful and file for divorce.  I don't think there would be a problem legally and I personally don't think there is a problem biblically.

[Bitter Sweet]

Do you have children? I think that would be the only biblical issue.

[DaveW]

Do you have a church home?  If so, your pastor needs to be involved to call her to biblical obedience.  What she is doing is a violation of a direct biblical command (1 Cor 7 and other places) and therfore is sinful.

I would think the Matt 18 framework should come into play here:

15 "If your brother [in this case your wife] sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

So if you and the pastor get nowhere, tell it to the whole congregation that she has stopped having marital relations with you.

[chosenone]

I agree with Dave and Jimmy. For a man or woman to refues sex with their spouse completely for no reaosn(ie they arent ill or anything) is totally wrong and disobedient and needs to be taken further.
Scullions have you been married long and how long has she been like this?

[Bitter Sweet]

Just because his wife isn't a believer doesn't mean he can just leave her if she is willing to live with him.

1 Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

[DaveW]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

[Jimmy]

Just because his wife isn't a believer doesn't mean he can just leave her if she is willing to live with him.

1 Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

I don't think you understand his concerns.  He didn't say that his wife was not a believer.

[chosenone]

Just because his wife isn't a believer doesn't mean he can just leave her if she is willing to live with him.

1 Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

I don't think you understand his concerns.  He didn't say that his wife was not a believer.

Exactly. This has nothing to do with whether or not she is a believer.

[Bitter Sweet]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

[chosenone]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isnt? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

[Bitter Sweet]

Just because his wife isn't a believer doesn't mean he can just leave her if she is willing to live with him.

1 Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

I don't think you understand his concerns.  He didn't say that his wife was not a believer.

Exactly. This has nothing to do with whether or not she is a believer.

Then what is she being disobedient against?

[Bitter Sweet]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isnt? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

And that's exactly why I posted scripture for the believing husband.

[Deborah4God]

adultery by an unbelieving spouse is still grounds for divorce. So if the argument is that there is sexual 'infidelity' happening here then it still works, believing or unbelieving, so I don't think it's relevant either way.

[chosenone]

adultery by an unbelieving spouse is still grounds for divorce. So if the argument is that there is sexual 'infidelity' happening here then it still works, believing or unbelieving, so I don't think it's relevant either way.

She isnt committing adultery, she is refusing to have sex with her husband!

[chosenone]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isn't? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

And that's exactly why I posted scripture for the believing husband.

  Yes for a believing husband married to a non believing wife. If she is a believer it doesn't apply.

[Deborah4God]

chosen i know but that is the argument that Jimmy gave, that there is a form of sexual infidelity happening. I thought it was very interesting and whether or not the argument holds water doesn't seem to depend on the spouse being believing or unbelieving.

[chosenone]

I don't agree that it is sexual infidelity, (unless she is sleeping with another man)but I do agree that she is disobeying God and being very cruel to her husband. Paul makes it clear that we are not to do this. However until we know whether she has always done this, or if it is a recent thing, its hard to say why it has happened and what he needs to do about it.  

[Bitter Sweet]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isn't? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

And that's exactly why I posted scripture for the believing husband.

 Yes for a believing husband married to a non believing wife. If she is a believer it doesn't apply.

I think we'll have to wait to find out if she is or not. Just want to look at it from all angles. Since it isn't a command from God to stay with her, but it is recommended that he does, what do you think, is it ok to still leave the unbelieving spouse?

Can I leave my husband if he becomes impotent and he and I are believers? I would never do that. Her problem may be psychological. Is it ethical to abandon a person with psychological handicap?

[anx]

This may not be permanent. Don't totally destroy everything in the short run when it may fix itself in the long run.

Pray hard and do what's right. Give this some time and patience.

You cannot control her actions, but you can control yours. Be a good and Godly example, and as patiently as loving as you can despite what she is doing isn't right.

If you are going to really bring this to make or break, do it after you have tried love.

[chosenone]

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isn't? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

And that's exactly why I posted scripture for the believing husband.

Yes for a believing husband married to a non believing wife. If she is a believer it doesn't apply.

I think we'll have to wait to find out if she is or not. Just want to look at it from all angles. Since it isn't a command from God to stay with her, but it is recommended that he does, what do you think, is it OK to still leave the unbelieving spouse?

Can I leave my husband if he becomes impotent and he and I are believers? I would never do that. Her problem may be psychological. Is it ethical to abandon a person with psychological handicap?

IF your husband was impotent that it not his fault, and there are things that he can do about that, if a person chooses not to have sex and refuses to do anything about it such as get medical or other help, that is entirely different. I never said that he should leave her, but that may be a last option if she is going to be totally disobedient to Gods clear instruction for one spouse to another. The op just hasn't said why or when this started so its impossible to say.

A married person however, doesn't have the option of 'declaring themselves celibate' for no reason, without there being repercussions for them and the marriage.

My mil decided after she had her 2 sons, that she was no longer going to have sex or share her husbands bed(he had  served his purpose). Many many years later after they divorced, she told my husband that she thinks he may have had an affair during the 20 or so years they lived like that. Hmmm, what did she expect exactly? She was totally disobedient to God while considering herself to be 'superspiritual'.

[Bitter Sweet]

I think anx give some good advice to wait, she may change.

Where did you get that she was not a believer?

What makes you think she is?

What makes you think she isn't? Her husband presumably is a believer or why is he posting here, so the chances are that she is too.

And that's exactly why I posted scripture for the believing husband.

Yes for a believing husband married to a non believing wife. If she is a believer it doesn't apply.

I think we'll have to wait to find out if she is or not. Just want to look at it from all angles. Since it isn't a command from God to stay with her, but it is recommended that he does, what do you think, is it OK to still leave the unbelieving spouse?

Can I leave my husband if he becomes impotent and he and I are believers? I would never do that. Her problem may be psychological. Is it ethical to abandon a person with psychological handicap?

IF your husband was impotent that it not his fault, and there are things that he can do about that, if a person chooses not to have sex and refuses to do anything about it such as get medical or other help, that is entirely different. I never said that he should leave her, but that may be a last option if she is going to be totally disobedient to Gods clear instruction for one spouse to another. The op just hasn't said why or when this started so its impossible to say.

A married person however, doesn't have the option of 'declaring themselves celibate' for no reason, without there being repercussions for them and the marriage.

My mil decided after she had her 2 sons, that she was no longer going to have sex or share her husbands bed(he had  served his purpose). Many many years later after they divorced, she told my husband that she thinks he may have had an affair during the 20 or so years they lived like that. Hmmm, what did she expect exactly? She was totally disobedient to God while considering herself to be 'superspiritual'.

I like that word superspiritual! Too bad it seems to have a negative effect. It seems more like some psychological defect to me, even with the example you used, it's not normal and it's too bad that religion does have this effect on people. It may be more common than we realize to have such sexual inhibition in marriage, it could also be a generational thing. Why would God chastise a married woman like this?

I personally have no desire for sex and consider myself celibate to a point but I would never punish my husband. We have normal relations, I just don't initiate it and he prefers that anyway. But then I also have a different history so even my lack of desire could be psychological because of my past. IDK, but then all of what I used to desire, I don't desire anymore. Which brings me to a question for the OP, does she over indulge in anything else in life such as shopping or friends or eating or has she cut most everything out?

[scullions]

hallo bittersweet i have posted a general reply
love jeff

[DaveW]

chosen i know but that is the argument that Jimmy gave, that there is a form of sexual infidelity happening. I thought it was very interesting and whether or not the argument holds water doesn't seem to depend on the spouse being believing or unbelieving.

Adultery has a very narrow definition in scripture.  It is having sex with someone in violation of your marriage covenant vows.

And that is not biblical grounds for divorce as it was biblical grounds for the death penalty.  There is no need for a divorce if the offending spouse is dead.

[chosenone]

The thing is that we are supposed to have sex with our spouse whether we 'feel' like it or not, and whether we 'desire' it or not at that time. We can have sex because we love our spouses, because we want to please them, because God tells us to, and because its good for the marriage. Refusing sex also makes temptation to stray stronger, and this is why Paul tells us not to deprive the other. I feel so sorry for people whose spouse refuse sex, because they are supposed to be faithful and therefore they are stuck in a horrible place.

[scullions]

what has this to do with celibacy?

[chosenone]

A lot.
scullions how long has your wife been refusing to have sex? Was it recent or has she always been like this? What reason does she give for doing this?  Is she a believer and do you both have a church?

[scullions]

she has always been this way no we keep moving for work so dont have achurch
she says not being attached to the flesh is more spiritual

[chosenone]

she has always been this way no we keep moving for work so dont have achurch
she says not being attached to the flesh is more spiritual

She has always been this way, so she married you under false pretences. She is totally wrong that it makes you more spiritual, what it does is make you more likely to have a divorce. How can it be spiritual to disobey Gods clear instructions for wives and husbands?  Find a good church and get some good teaching.
My feeling is that your wife has serious sex avoidance issues, and what she says is just an excuse, because it isnt biblical.

Living Translation (©2007)
The husband should fulfill his wife's sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband's needs
For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does
Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

[Deborah4God]

chosen i know but that is the argument that Jimmy gave, that there is a form of sexual infidelity happening. I thought it was very interesting and whether or not the argument holds water doesn't seem to depend on the spouse being believing or unbelieving.

Adultery has a very narrow definition in scripture.  It is having sex with someone in violation of your marriage covenant vows.

And that is not biblical grounds for divorce as it was biblical grounds for the death penalty.  There is no need for a divorce if the offending spouse is dead.

I'm not the one who put forward the argument that there is sexual infidelity going on, I was simply commenting that I found the argument interesting and it *could* have merit.

But why would you say that adultery is not grounds for divorce

Mat 19:9   And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

There isn't a condition here, well after she's killed obviously you won't be married! I think that is reading too much into the text.

[DaveW]

But why would you say that adultery is not grounds for divorce

Mat 19:9   And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

The word translated "sexual immorality" here is pornia, and is usually translated fornication which is the older english for premarital sex. Pornia can include adultery but usually does not as it (adultery) carries the sense of covenant  breaking that pornia does not.

Jesus is refering back to Deut 24.1 where it says if a man finds "ervah" in his wife he can give her a certificate of divorce. The exact meaning of Ervah was a hot topic discussion between the rabbis, with those of the school of Shammai saying it meant ONLY that he found her to not be a virgin on their wedding night, while Hillel said it could be for "any reason" including her being a bad cook. At the start of the 2nd century, Rabbi Akiva (of the house of Hillel) said it meant if the husband found someone prettier.

But since adultery brought the death penalty, that was not included in either side of the argument. And IMO neither was it in Jesus' statement.

[musician_for_God]

But why would you say that adultery is not grounds for divorce

Mat 19:9   And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

The word translated "sexual immorality" here is pornia, and is usually translated fornication which is the older english for premarital sex. Pornia can include adultery but usually does not as it (adultery) carries the sense of covenant  breaking that pornia does not.

Jesus is refering back to Deut 24.1 where it says if a man finds "ervah" in his wife he can give her a certificate of divorce. The exact meaning of Ervah was a hot topic discussion between the rabbis, with those of the school of Shammai saying it meant ONLY that he found her to not be a virgin on their wedding night, while Hillel said it could be for "any reason" including her being a bad cook. At the start of the 2nd century, Rabbi Akiva (of the house of Hillel) said it meant if the husband found someone prettier.

But since adultery brought the death penalty, that was not included in either side of the argument. And IMO neither was it in Jesus' statement.

Your post intrigued me, so I asked a theologian friend of mind about it, and he said the question the Pharisees brought to Jesus was a direct allusion to the adultery and divorce passage of Deuteronomy 24 (See Matthew 19:1-9). And that furthermore, the New Testament does make a categorical distinction between fornication and adultery in passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Hebrews 13:4.

All I can say is that ignorance apparently looms large about how to handle the issue of marriage and divorce, and many Christians would feel they have to plead that ignorance if told by God they made the wrong move.  (i.e. "Lord, I didn't know what You meant, even though I wanted to.  I'm sorry!") I mean, all we've established here is that Jesus' marriage and divorce rules are unclear to us.  Great.  So, many Christians will make the wrong decisions regarding the extremely serious matters of marriage and divorce, because they don't know what their Lord meant.  This is REALLY frustrating!  The only consolation is that God looks on the intent of the heart, and judges one based on that.

[psalm22]

     A healthy marriage should involve physical affection and intimacy.  While I would respect someones choice to remain celibate for spiritual reasons, I do not believe that is an option after you have chosen marriage.  Sex is a privaledge and obligation of marriage.  Just as providing for your home and family is an obligation of marriage.  I wonder how she would feel if told her that in order to be more spiritual, you had decided to give up your paying job in favor of full time prayer or study or that you feel that you should cast off all of your possessions.

      I appologise for all the sarcasim but this is a close to home issue that really gets the best of me.  It is uncommon and abnormal for anyone to not have a age appropriate libido or sex drive.  She may be using spirituality as an excuse not only to you but for herself as it lends a little more of an aire of irrefutability.  If she wants to honor God she should understand that honoring her husband and marriage with full participation, including sex, is a part of that.  While chasity is a praised virtue, it has no place in a marriage. 

      Before you go and get a ghet. I would focus on how her behavior is affecting you and how it make you feel.  Let her know that you feel it is putting your relationship at risk.  There is no spiritual case for her choice and the rammifications can leave you very damaged, with a low self worth and feelings of rejection and unlovability.

My prayers for both of you brother.  Go with love and compassion but stay strong.