Review of the Movie ‘Courageous’ – Bad Fathers beware. Rating: Chick Flick

[Dingdong]

With half curiosity and annoyance I sat down at my computer to review the much talked about men's movie "Courageous

[MeMyself]

I wish there was a movie encouraging women to be better moms, wives and friends.

I wish there was a movie that told mom's how *vital* they are to the family, how important to their husbands and how life affirming their presence is to their children's lives.

I was bummed at the movie, because it made it sound like all everyone needs is a good shipshape daddy...mommy fades into the wood work of invisibility.

My dh and sons LOVED it, however.  Go figure.

[Dingdong]

Thanks for your feedback.

I am agreeing with you. The movie offers what is already out there in society.

What do we hear in society about men and the tripe  the world is pumping?

Fathers are the reason why we have all these juviniles running amok
Most movies project a dad who is not spending enough time with kids – Liar Liar
The perfect man is one who is always with his children and does nothing else but
Men are the criminals and women the innocent victims
All men are violent/bad deep down, you just have to push them hard enough
Dads actions alone depend on how the daughter turns out later in life
Most Dads have let down their families
Every womans wish is for her man to suddenly wake up one day and be the man she has always dreamed of
When marriage splits happen – its the fathers who walk out and dont want anything to do with the kids  ever again – they chose to be absent.
Men dressed up equals some sort of honesty
For Christian women the best husband is one that is infatuated with God like they are
Dads should be their daughters nights in shining armour

The movie ticks all these boxes and so to me cranks the worldly line about men

[Cally]

I haven't seen the movie Courageous yet, but after seeing that sickening film "Fireproof" (in which it was clear, men are 200% responsible for marriage) this report doesn't surprise me one bit.

That's been the attitude of mainstream churches as long as I can remember. It defies the facts like crazy, like, say, the fact that the overwhelming majority of divorces are filed by the wife, not the husband, with the epidemic of marriage profiteering right now.

Thanks for being a rare voice of sanity here about this, Dingdong.

[chosenone]

I wish there was a movie encouraging women to be better moms, wives and friends.

I wish there was a movie that told mom's how *vital* they are to the family, how important to their husbands and how life affirming their presence is to their children's lives.

I was bummed at the movie, because it made it sound like all everyone needs is a good shipshape daddy...mommy fades into the wood work of invisibility.

My dh and sons LOVED it, however.   Go figure.

I agree memyself.
Actually I agree with all that has been said here. I wont watch Christian movies as a rule, because to me they are far too unreal, sickly sweet(yuk), and 'hollywood-ish'. I bought the film fireproof about 2 years ago, for me and DH to watch together, but after just reading the write up, I felt uncomfortable about watching it so never have. My DH had quite enough guilt poured onto him for 23 years by his ex without us watching anything that may add to that. She told him all through their marriage that everything was his fault and even after she had an affair and divorced him, she was still apparently only doing that to feel 'loved'. Sheesh.

I was once told that you don't have to be a perfect mother, just a 'good enough' mother,so surely this applies to dads/husbands too?

I def don't go with that whole 'if the marriage goes wrong its the man's fault' because I have seen marriages where the women behaved extremely badly and she alone led to the marriage ending.

Having read about that film, it wont be one that I will be watching. It sounds like another of those 'I want to throw up you must be an all American hero' sort sort of movie to me. Not my thing. I like movies that are more realistic and talk about REAL issues in a  REAL honest and down to earth way.

Surely films like this only serve to make discontent women feel even more discontent with their husbands?( most of whom are only doing their best anyway) Surely it will only serve to make women think that there is this 'perfect man' out there when there isnt?

[Dingdong]

Wow, I was half expecting a scolding for my review here and not agreement?

I and those above are obviously on the same wave length. I was/am a family court mediator in my country and saw the system kick dads in the teeth time and time again.

In the media and in society, men see themselves portrayed as the worst kind of animals, and many of us wonder if it is true. For growing boys - ten year-olds gazing at the prospect of their masculinity, or seventeen year-olds standing on the brink of male sexual experience -- a deep ambivalence, bordering on self-loathing is not hard to acquire.

Maybe my scolding is coming?

[MeMyself]

Maybe my scolding is coming?

Not from me...

I am a mother of two sons, and that dating scene really urked me as well. (ok, the boy in the movie ended up being sketchy)  HOWEVER, young girls are NOT the innocent doves society thinks them to be, TRUST me!!!! 

Also, the scene where the guys come up with the pledge and the wife INSISTS they MUST get suits???  WHAAA?  WHY?  There was a couple that struggled to find enough cash to FEED their babies, but lets INSIST they get some fancy pants suit and waste HUNDREDS of dollars...because to take THIS pledge, we must be dressed up...after all, God looks at the heart, right?

UGH!

OTOH, my dh is going to a courageous bible study and is LOVING it.  I am just keeping my lips zipped and making sure I don't get in the way.

[MeMyself]

I was once told that you don't have to be a perfect mother, just a 'good enough' mother,so surely this applies to dads/husbands too?

YES!  Our children just want to know we LOVE them...and when we blow it, they are SO quick to forgive us when we ask for it.  Good enough *is* perfect, because it shows them we are human, not Super Heroes, perfect in every way.  We are fallible, imperfect people that do our best and find grace with the Father...which shows them that He will have grace for them as well. 

[Cally]

In the media and in society, men see themselves portrayed as the worst kind of animals, and many of us wonder if it is true. For growing boys - ten year-olds gazing at the prospect of their masculinity, or seventeen year-olds standing on the brink of male sexual experience -- a deep ambivalence, bordering on self-loathing is not hard to acquire.

Well, it's kind of ironic that Dads should probably be protecting their sons from garbage like this film in order to prevent that.

[chosenone]

Maybe my scolding is coming?

Not from me...

I am a mother of two sons, and that dating scene really urked me as well. (ok, the boy in the movie ended up being sketchy)  HOWEVER, young girls are NOT the innocent doves society thinks them to be, TRUST me!!!! 

Also, the scene where the guys come up with the pledge and the wife INSISTS they MUST get suits???  WHAAA?  WHY?  There was a couple that struggled to find enough cash to FEED their babies, but lets INSIST they get some fancy pants suit and waste HUNDREDS of dollars...because to take THIS pledge, we must be dressed up...after all, God looks at the heart, right?

UGH!

OTOH, my dh is going to a courageous bible study and is LOVING it.  I am just keeping my lips zipped and making sure I don't get in the way.

I agree so much about the girls not being innocent doves. Some of them today act appallingly, dress like hookers, and then wonder why the guys get tempted. No they are just as bad and just as keen to get drunk and have sex as any guy is. Its so sad.

[Jaime]

I think this group's movie effort known as "Fireproof" addressed BOTH men and women. The movie "Courageous" addressed the spiritual leadership of husbands. Not in any way giving woman a pass per se'.

Cally and DingDong obviously don't know what they are talking about. Both films were absolutely wonderful. They weren't attacks on men at all. Both movies inspired me and I wish I had seen them 40 years ago. There is nothing more manly than being a Godly father and husband.

I will watch EVERYTHING this group puts out, because it has been outstanding. I can watch Hollywood crap and be the worse off for it everytime with maybe a tad bit better acting. Movies like Pulp Fiction that got many honors, deserved nothing but condemnation and the trash heap. There is little to nothing of any redeeming value coming out of Hollywood other than stuff like this that THEY scoff at.

Also the scene about the little girl dancing without her daddy, was very poignant to me, since now havig grown daughters, I look back on those type of moments where I thought I was too busy, with some remorse. The movie inspired me, what can I say? Young dads should be drug to the movie and strapped in the chair in my opinion. I was sitting down the aisle from a couple in the movie Fireproof, and when it was over, BOTH had their faces in their hands sobbing. I cried and I'm a West Texas redneck for goodness sake. I know Scarlet O'hare's "frankly my dear, I don't give a ****" was a classic, but had little affect. These movies are touching people and making lives BETTER, not condemned and restricted. If we can't be inspired by a well delivered line in a movie, how are we to be affected by Jesus' sermon on the  mount. Talk about convicting!

So what the guys in the movie wanted to make their commitments in a formal way involving suits and ties and a typewritten commitment etc. I think that was great! It portrayed to the wives their "skin" in the game and not just some superficial promise of doing better.  

Dad's and husbands ARE the spiritual leaders. Do marriages get screwed up with good dads and husbands with sorry wifes and mothers? Absolutely. Maybe they will make another movie about mothers and wives. But again, if one was paying attention, Fireproof could apply both ways. I believe Kirk Cameron's mother in the show was who did the first love dare, even though everyone thought it was his dad until the end.

I can stomach the complaint about bad acting (Hollywood is covered up with that), but Lordy Mercy, it's the STORY! - The illustration of a Godly principle.

[Jaime]

Maybe my scolding is coming?

Not from me...

I am a mother of two sons, and that dating scene really urked me as well. (ok, the boy in the movie ended up being sketchy)  HOWEVER, young girls are NOT the innocent doves society thinks them to be, TRUST me!!!!  

Also, the scene where the guys come up with the pledge and the wife INSISTS they MUST get suits???  WHAAA?  WHY?  There was a couple that struggled to find enough cash to FEED their babies, but lets INSIST they get some fancy pants suit and waste HUNDREDS of dollars...because to take THIS pledge, we must be dressed up...after all, God looks at the heart, right?

UGH!

OTOH, my dh is going to a courageous bible study and is LOVING it.   I am just keeping my lips zipped and making sure I don't get in the way.

Don't be surprised if he wants to get dressed up and have a formal commitment ceremony. It means it's important to him. And it should be. Similar to why people get dressed up for a wedding.

[Cally]

^I can only speak for Fireproof, the story was AWFUL.

Plenty of things bug me about "Pulp Fiction," but from the looks of Fireproof these guys have no CLUE how to write a story.

Come on, break it down scene-by-scene. One guy is the preacher, the other guy is the soundboard. It's totally transparent and unnatural, and that's horrible storytelling. A story is supposed to have natural conversations reminiscent of REALITY in such a way that demonstrates it point, not say it matter-of-factly. Pulp Fiction (without a moral base, to be sure) did that, Fireproof sure didn't.

The writing of the female in Fireproof is absolutely awful. Can you even describe her character? I sure can't. She gets knocked around every which way by her circumstances and the conclusion is clearly that a woman can only do what the world makes her do (i.e. the husband in particular) so nobody should ever hold her accountable for anything.

[Jaime]

Sorry you missed the boat Cally. I have gathered you are 20 something. If you get married, you will need the principles portrayed in both movies. I was a pretty good guy, but I coulda been so much better husband and father had I seen these two movies early on. Those two jobs are way too important, as is the job of mother and wife for women. The acting was no worse than several dozen academy award winners I can think of. And both stories were great. I don't cry over lousy stories. I don't see how the story of Fireproof can be categorized as lousy. It got a powerful point across to millions of viewers. It was not a condemnation of men only. It portrayed a particular problem that men struggle with and their sometimes lack of empathy for the wives point of view or perspective. Like I said, Cameron's mother was who took the first love dare, not his dad. So it had an application for women as well. It was not a man bashing movie. It was a human weakness bashing movie that showed the power of humility and repentence. Where pride once ruled. Couples cannot expect 50 percent of a relationship from their spouse, it must be a 100/100 proposition, which was clearly portrayed in the movie. When we give of ourselves unconditionally to a spouse, sometimes we don't get reciprocated immediately, as in 50/50, but a marriage is both parties loving even when the other is unloveable. Sounds like Jesus, huh?

As to the wife in Fireproof, I can absolutely see how she devolved into a place where she was almost lured into an affair. That's how those things happen, when the other party's love bank is overdrawn. She became distant and uncaring more and more until she surmised, what the heck. Could the roles have been reversed? Absolutely! Nothing unreal about this portrayal. For an old married man, this movie was ultra real! That's why my wife and I BOTH cried. There was no finger pointing by my wife saying, "see that's the way you need to act." It was convicting on both of us.  We saw dangers from both perspectives when hardheadness prevails, and is overcome by the power of unconditional love. Just because Jesus used the example of a rich young ruler, doesn't mean his point couldn't be applied to poor, old nobodies.

Courageous portrayed that it takes more than the contribution of sperm to make a father. Not an unworthy story either.

[MeMyself]

Maybe my scolding is coming?

Not from me...

I am a mother of two sons, and that dating scene really urked me as well. (ok, the boy in the movie ended up being sketchy)  HOWEVER, young girls are NOT the innocent doves society thinks them to be, TRUST me!!!!  

Also, the scene where the guys come up with the pledge and the wife INSISTS they MUST get suits???  WHAAA?  WHY?  There was a couple that struggled to find enough cash to FEED their babies, but lets INSIST they get some fancy pants suit and waste HUNDREDS of dollars...because to take THIS pledge, we must be dressed up...after all, God looks at the heart, right?

UGH!

OTOH, my dh is going to a courageous bible study and is LOVING it.   I am just keeping my lips zipped and making sure I don't get in the way.

Don't be surprised if he wants to get dressed up and have a formal commitment ceremony. It means it's important to him. And it should be. Similar to why people get dressed up for a wedding.

perhaps...I just feel like the heart issue is waaay more important than a suit.  Besides, it bugged me further that it was the *wife* insisting on it...BUTT OUT!  It is about the guys and how THEY want to do it.  I will say NOTHING if my dh comes and says they are taking the pledge, I will let it be about the men who agreed and let *them* decide what they want to do. *IF* I was to find out one of the other men's wives started dictating how it was to be done, what they were to wear, etc...I'd make a stink then.
I have issue with things appearing prettied up on the outside, but the inside or just deeper than surface level, its a farce, nothing but a show...so that's probably were I was coming from and why I took it the way I did.

[Jaime]

Maybe my scolding is coming?

Not from me...

I am a mother of two sons, and that dating scene really urked me as well. (ok, the boy in the movie ended up being sketchy)  HOWEVER, young girls are NOT the innocent doves society thinks them to be, TRUST me!!!!  

Also, the scene where the guys come up with the pledge and the wife INSISTS they MUST get suits???  WHAAA?  WHY?  There was a couple that struggled to find enough cash to FEED their babies, but lets INSIST they get some fancy pants suit and waste HUNDREDS of dollars...because to take THIS pledge, we must be dressed up...after all, God looks at the heart, right?

UGH!

OTOH, my dh is going to a courageous bible study and is LOVING it.   I am just keeping my lips zipped and making sure I don't get in the way.

Don't be surprised if he wants to get dressed up and have a formal commitment ceremony. It means it's important to him. And it should be. Similar to why people get dressed up for a wedding.

perhaps...I just feel like the heart issue is waaay more important than a suit.  Besides, it bugged me further that it was the *wife* insisting on it...BUTT OUT!  It is about the guys and how THEY want to do it.  I will say NOTHING if my dh comes and says they are taking the pledge, I will let it be about the men who agreed and let *them* decide what they want to do. *IF* I was to find out one of the other men's wives started dictating how it was to be done, what they were to wear, etc...I'd make a stink then.
I have issue with things appearing prettied up on the outside, but the inside or just deeper than surface level, its a farce, nothing but a show...so that's probably were I was coming from and why I took it the way I did.

From my take on the movie, it was the GUYs that wanted to make a big deal about it. The signing of the formal agreement was the guy's idea. But at any rate, certainly not an issue to poo poo the entire movie. It would be like complaining that the computer Cameron trashed in Fireproof was a PC and not a Mac, or that Cameron needed a haircut. So many more positive aspects. Besides, it was a movie afterall, not a documentary. No more unusual than a couple renting a church building and dressing up to renew their vows. Practically speaking that could be done in a booth at McDonald's. Ceremony seems to add credence sometimes, even with the low opinion I personally have with pomp and ceremony.

[Cally]

Sorry you missed the boat Cally. I have gathered you are 20 something. If you get married, you will need the principles portrayed in both movies. I was a pretty good guy, but I coulda been so much better husband and father had I seen these two movies early on. Those two jobs are way too important, as is the job of mother and wife for women. The acting was no worse than several dozen academy award winners I can think of. And both stories were great. I don't cry over lousy stories. I don't see how the story of Fireproof can be categorized as lousy. It got a powerful point across to millions of viewers. It was not a condemnation of men only. It portrayed a particular problem that men struggle with and their sometimes lack of empathy for the wives point of view or perspective. Like I said, Cameron's mother was who took the first love dare, not his dad. So it had an application for women as well. It was not a man bashing movie. It was a human weakness bashing movie that showed the power of humility and repentence. Where pride once ruled. Couples cannot expect 50 percent of a relationship from their spouse, it must be a 100/100 proposition, which was clearly portrayed in the movie. When we give of ourselves unconditionally to a spouse, sometimes we don't get reciprocated immediately, as in 50/50, but a marriage is both parties loving even when the other is unloveable. Sounds like Jesus, huh?

As to the wife in Fireproof, I can absolutely see how she devolved into a place where she was almost lured into an affair. That's how those things happen, when the other party's love bank is overdrawn. She became distant and uncaring more and more until she surmised, what the heck. Could the roles have been reversed? Absolutely! Nothing unreal about this portrayal. For an old married man, this movie was ultra real! That's why my wife and I BOTH cried. There was no finger pointing by my wife saying, "see that's the way you need to act." It was convicting on both of us.  We saw dangers from both perspectives when hardheadness prevails, and is overcome by the power of unconditional love. Just because Jesus used the example of a rich young ruler, doesn't mean his point couldn't be applied to poor, old nobodies.

Courageous portrayed that it takes more than the contribution of sperm to make a father. Not an unworthy story either.

Jaime, it's stuff like Fireproof that makes me think ten times before going anywhere near a female and about a thousand times before even dreaming about getting married (in the United States, at least), because I know what to expect from the community: I'm instantly guilty, and my concerns won't be considered. It's not because women are more "evil" than men, it's because this culture is full of men ready to jump at the opportunity to white knight a female.

It's real life. Men (husbands) go through this all the time. See: "marriage profiteering" and the causes of it for example.

In Fireproof, the wife hardly did anything that I could remotely consider selfless (I don't know, remind me if I forget). The ending saying that his mother did the love dare, not the father, I couldn't see as a call for wives to be long-suffering since no such thing was ever portrayed: just stated, in order to let us think of her (the female) as the saintly one.

Again, the men are the only ones who make mistakes in such a way that they're to be held accountable for what they do.

[Jaime]

The wife DIDN'T do anything selfless. Just the opposite. She succumbed to her love bank being overdrawn. Her near encounter with the doctor was extremely selfish.

The mother doing the love dare not the father most certainly implied that it can be other than the husband. It clearly and unequivocally portrayed that it can happen to one or both parties, not just husbands.

No, I did not and my wife did not take it as an indictment of husbands. Which is why the couples I saw leaving the movie, BOTH had been crying. It wasn't the case of the triumphant wives herding their husbands back to the car. The roles could be reversed and it would still be just as powerful of a movie. Again, Jesus' indictment of the rich young ruler did not imply that poor, old nobodies can feel vindicated. It had a broader message.

You are short changing yourself if you think this was an attempt to discourage men from going anywhere near a female. That is an extremely shallow view. The absolute opposite was portrayed. It was an example of how unconditional love can solve seemingly unsolvable problems. ie, look at the divorce rate even among Christians - the epitomy of selfishness and lack of unconditional love. This movie addressed a human issue not a male issue. It could have been portrayed with Cameron's wife being the dolt. When the wife realized that her arch nemesis, her husband had used his bonus to pay the several thousand dollars of medical expenses for her parent, after she had given him unmitigated hell, was an unavoidable tear jerker.

I have been on sort of similar situations as Cameron was in, where no matter what you tried, it didn't seem to matter and then all of sudden, the light comes on with the spouse. And I have been in the reverse situations.

[MeMyself]

But at any rate, certainly not an issue to poo poo the entire movie.

I'm not poo pooing the entire movie based on that...I didn't especially *looove* it for other reasons I've already mentioned.

Though, it is a *huge* issue for me...the plastic, look purdy on the outside, smile darling, nothing ever is wrong, we are perfect, don't we look lovely in our nice clothes (That we can't afford)...appearance based garbage.  Guess it hits too close to home for me.  We said all the right things in public, looked good doing it, but at our core growing up was festering anger, resentment and phoniness that makes me go batty!

[Jaime]

But at any rate, certainly not an issue to poo poo the entire movie.

I'm not poo pooing the entire movie based on that...I didn't especially *looove* it for other reasons I've already mentioned.

Though, it is a *huge* issue for me...the plastic, look purdy on the outside, smile darling, nothing ever is wrong, we are perfect, don't we look lovely in our nice clothes (That we can't afford)...appearance based garbage.   Guess it hits too close to home for me.  We said all the right things in public, looked good doing it, but at our core growing up was festering anger, resentment and phoniness that makes me go batty!

Well yeah, a whole nuther movie could be made on that! Again, my perspective saw level of commitment, your perspective saw plastic gawdiness. I certainly concur with most events like weddings. They ARE way over done. Sounds like one or both of ya'll coulda used an extreme love dare to overcome the core of festering anger. Which exactly portrays the couple and story in Fireproof to a tee! Were not BOTH of them festering pustules of anger and resentment in the movie?

[MeMyself]

But at any rate, certainly not an issue to poo poo the entire movie.

I'm not poo pooing the entire movie based on that...I didn't especially *looove* it for other reasons I've already mentioned.

Though, it is a *huge* issue for me...the plastic, look purdy on the outside, smile darling, nothing ever is wrong, we are perfect, don't we look lovely in our nice clothes (That we can't afford)...appearance based garbage.   Guess it hits too close to home for me.  We said all the right things in public, looked good doing it, but at our core growing up was festering anger, resentment and phoniness that makes me go batty!

Well yeah, a whole nuther movie could be made on that! Again, my perspective saw level of commitment, your perspective saw plastic gawdiness. I certainly concur with most events like weddings. They ARE way over done. Sounds like one or both of ya'll coulda used an extreme love dare to overcome the core of festering anger. Which exactly portrays the couple and story in Fireproof to a tee!

IMO fireproof was  meh.  I wasn't as touched and moved as the others who saw it either.  I guess I am just a big dolt?  And, AGREE that weddings are over.the.top! UGH!

At anyrate, my issue stems from my childhood and growing up like that.   

Now, the movie I *did* really like was Facing the Giants.    Gotta love a movie about football and God! 

[Jaime]

But at any rate, certainly not an issue to poo poo the entire movie.

I'm not poo pooing the entire movie based on that...I didn't especially *looove* it for other reasons I've already mentioned.

Though, it is a *huge* issue for me...the plastic, look purdy on the outside, smile darling, nothing ever is wrong, we are perfect, don't we look lovely in our nice clothes (That we can't afford)...appearance based garbage.   Guess it hits too close to home for me.  We said all the right things in public, looked good doing it, but at our core growing up was festering anger, resentment and phoniness that makes me go batty!

Well yeah, a whole nuther movie could be made on that! Again, my perspective saw level of commitment, your perspective saw plastic gawdiness. I certainly concur with most events like weddings. They ARE way over done. Sounds like one or both of ya'll coulda used an extreme love dare to overcome the core of festering anger. Which exactly portrays the couple and story in Fireproof to a tee!

IMO fireproof was   meh.  I wasn't as touched and moved as the others who saw it either.  I guess I am just a big dolt?  And, AGREE that weddings are over.the.top! UGH!

At anyrate, my issue stems from my childhood and growing up like that.  

Now, the movie I *did* really like was Facing the Giants.    Gotta love a movie about football and God!  

I really don't understand how it could NOT touch you expecially with the circumstances you have shared in your life about festering and anger and all.  

Even though Facing the Giants was about Football and God, It was about so much more than football. But it was a great movie. I really identified with the coach when he was almost unfairly let go. The way he handled the situation was really inspiring. That has happened to me and I didn't handle it as well. I just thought each movie those guys did kept getting better and better - Fireproof then Courageous. I guess if they are viewed as cinematic treasures or extremely valuable life lessons makes a difference too. Probably why I am a Little House on the Prarie fan.

[Dingdong]

I am 46 years old and have been happily married 23. I have been a pastor, counsellor, family court mediator and now a layman running a men's ministry.

In all my experience, there is a strong culture that suppresses masculinity in western society, particularly in our education system. Schools reinforce the television and movie stereotypes of masculinity, and feminise education to the point where boys have to choose between succeeding in school or succeeding as a male.

Our men are in a state of ambivalence. The call is for the masculine side of men when it comes to protecting our countries, families against danger and threats. And then there is the call to me more female like, more intuitive and spontaneous. The homosexual revolution is a step in this direction where women are now heard saying, "why are all the best men either taken or gay".

So we have a superhero with a pretty face. He looks like a powerful knight but when he speaks wants to know how you go that cake to rise so well. We cant have our cake and eat it too. God made them male and female and we need to celebrate/highlight the differences rather than try to meld them.

I have a question for Cally - have you always been a christian? Just curious. You saw grown men crying in the theater after Fireproof (which I did see). I can guarantee you that these were christian men. As I said before, these movies only appeal to the christian man but the man on the street will write it off as a chick flick - trust me on this.

The concept of Courageous is fine but it is the way the movie portrays men which will cause the blue collar guy to change channels. This movie offers nothing different to what common chick flicks offer. Why do women attend chick flicks more than average men? Because it appeals to women more. Why do many 'churchy' men like chick flicks? Because they have been conditioned from a young age that everything revolves around female approval or disapproval at church. Most christian churches are made up of 60% women and 40% men - that's a serious overbalance of females to grow up with - some of it has to rub off.

Show me something in the movie (apart from the religious bits), that is not already commonplace in a chick flick? My wife would agree with me by the way on everything I have said here.

[Cally]

I am 46 years old and have been happily married 23. I have been a pastor, counsellor, family court mediator and now a layman running a men's ministry.

In all my experience, there is a strong culture that suppresses masculinity in western society, particularly in our education system. Schools reinforce the television and movie stereotypes of masculinity, and feminise education to the point where boys have to choose between succeeding in school or succeeding as a male.

Our men are in a state of ambivalence. The call is for the masculine side of men when it comes to protecting our countries, families against danger and threats. And then there is the call to me more female like, more intuitive and spontaneous. The homosexual revolution is a step in this direction where women are now heard saying, "why are all the best men either taken or gay".

So we have a superhero with a pretty face. He looks like a powerful knight but when he speaks wants to know how you go that cake to rise so well. We cant have our cake and eat it too. God made them male and female and we need to celebrate/highlight the differences rather than try to meld them.

I have a question for Cally - have you always been a christian? Just curious. You saw grown men crying in the theater after Fireproof (which I did see). As I said before, these movies only appeal to the christian man but the man on the street will write it off as a chick flick - trust me on this.

The concept of Courageous is fine but it is the way the movie portrays men which will cause the blue collar guy to change channels. This movie offers nothing different to what common chick flicks offer. Why do women attend chick flicks more than average men? Because it appeals to women more. Why do many 'churchy' men like chick flicks? Because they have been conditioned from a young age that everything revolves around female approval or disapproval at church. Most christian churches are made up of 60% women and 40% men - that's a serious overbalance of females to grow up with - some of it has to rub off.

Show me something in the movie (apart from the religious bits), that is not already commonplace in a chick flick? My wife would agree with me by the way on everything I have said here.

Are you sure you're not talking to Jaime?

I've always been a Christian, grew up going to church but later discovered the sheer difference between what our culture calls "church" and what's written in the Bible--not to mention God who actually loves and cares about me. I recognize Fireproof as . . . well, EXACTLY what you're saying in your post.

Great post!



I've heard of some kind of, I dunno, "movement" called "Men Going Their Own Way." Men kind of get to choose between "how come you guys aren't man enough to be leaders/providers and put out, put out, put out . . ." or "You guys are all such oppressors" and strangely, both from the same sources sometimes. MGTOW is kind of like, "we get it, you hate us, goodbye and all the best for you." THAT'S where the good men are going--learning how to survive.

[Jaime]

DingDong, I have been a Christian for 47 years and basically was raised in church. I live in Midland Texas which is a big church town, but made up of ruggedly independent macho types. Also, the message of this movie like the Gospel is foolishness to those that don't believe. I wouldn't expect a big impact to those that think the gospel is foolishness, but the gospel message is not diminished by that is it?

[Cally]

Why do many 'churchy' men like chick flicks? Because they have been conditioned from a young age that everything revolves around female approval or disapproval at church.

Just want to reinforce this: this hits the nail directly on the head. As lousy as the rest of the world can be, being away from that scene is sweet, sweet freedom from "everything revolves around female approval or disapproval".

Gotta go out, be a man, and get an actual job done without that garbage. It's too bad so many people don't realize that the man's man really is holding the world together regardless of how you hate his being a little rough around the edges at times.

[Jaime]

Cally nothing about these movies emasculates a man any more that the gospel itself.

[MeMyself]

I really don't understand how it could NOT touch you expecially with the circumstances you have shared in your life about festering and anger and all.  

I donno...just wasn't all that moved by it.  

I didn't much like the Iron Man movies ethere...folks thought I was   for that too.   Whatevs.  

Facing the Giants was the best of all of them IMO.

[Dingdong]

Sorry, yeah, I was talking to Jamie.

Jamie you said,

"I wouldn't expect a big impact to those that think the gospel is foolishness, but the gospel message is not diminished by that is it?"

I think it is.

Is our main task to reach the churchy man and draw out more emotion from him that he already has loads of? Or, is our goal to reach the non-churched guys and get them into a community of faith and baptised into Christ?

I think the latter.

I have met big rough looking churchy men but underneath they still are emotionally deficient and vulnerable to feminisation. They still have not developed beyond what I call the Christian Nice Guy Syndrome. Their greatest goal is to be nice and be liked by everybody. They come to church not to be transformed but to participate in comforting rituals that have changed little since their childhood.

If we claim to be christian we need to show our scars from the conflict. All who live Godly in Christ will suffer - no exceptions. And that conflict will always be conflict with your own church and not the world. The world did not crucify Christ - religious people did.

The western church is feminised - if you are comfortable in it, then you have been affected.

[Dingdong]

Below are two sets of values. Which set do you think characterises christian values most of all? The first set or the second set?

FIRST SET
Love
Communication
Beauty
Relationships
Support
Help
Nurturing
Feelings
Sharing
Relating
Harmony
Community
Cooperation
Personal expression

SECOND SET
Competence
Power
Efficiency
Achievement
Skills
Proving oneself
Results
Accomplishment
Objects
Technology
Goal oriented
Self-sufficiency
Success
Competition

I will give my answer later but will leave this up for you for a while to consider a choice. No ifs or buts either.

[Cally]

Sorry, yeah, I was talking to Jamie.

Jamie you said,

"I wouldn't expect a big impact to those that think the gospel is foolishness, but the gospel message is not diminished by that is it?"

I think it is.

Is our main task to reach the churchy man and draw out more emotion from him that he already has loads of? Or, is our goal to reach the non-churched guys and get them into a community of faith and baptised into Christ?

I think the latter.

I have met big rough looking churchy men but underneath they still are emotionally deficient and vulnerable to feminisation. They still have not developed beyond what I call the Christian Nice Guy Syndrome. Their greatest goal is to be nice and be liked by everybody. They come to church not to be transformed but to participate in comforting rituals that have changed little since their childhood.

If we claim to be christian we need to show our scars from the conflict. All who live Godly in Christ will suffer - no exceptions. And that conflict will always be conflict with your own church and not the world. The world did not crucify Christ - religious people did.

The western church is feminised - if you are comfortable in it, then you have been affected.

Yeah, that's exactly it. That's the portrayal of the gospel message to men from today's churches. And it's not even love with real action either--you know, like seriously figuring out how to help the needy, for example. It's wishy-washy niceness.

[Jaime]

I would say the first set.

[Jaime]

DingDong, the goodness of the movie was not to make men cry so their wives would like them. As I said before the movie touched upon our weaknesses as people to love unconditionally not to conjure up tears, but to impart Godly sorry unto repentence. Tthe ultimate teaching tool.

To go through that movie untouched is a sign of hard heartedness not manly virtue.

[Jaime]

Memyself, are you saying with the festering anger issues you described, Fireproof did not prick either your heart or your husband at all? Since that was the point of the movie. Were you gone a lot to the concession stand or bathroom?

[Jaime]

Cally, think of the movie as a life lesson. It wasn't all about just being outwardly nice. We are to show unconditional love to all not just our spouses. I need every life lesson I can get. I venture you and Ding do to. Godly sorrow is not becoming feminized.