A man's intelligence vs a woman's intelligence

[Stan53]

There is a guy called Walid Shoebat who use to be a former Muslim. He is now a Christian and travels round warning churches about the threat of Islam. I have one of his books and he seems very genuine. However, on quite a few occasions when he's giving a sermon he says, "Women are smarter than men." And then people laugh and start clapping.

Now, as a man I do not know who is smarter. But the reason I find his statement a little ludicrous is because of technology. Men are the ones who have created space ships, satellite, computers, TV, airplanes, factories, machines, medication, etc. If it wasn't for men inventing computers and factories with machinery, millions of women wouldn't have a job. It's because of men creating all this technology that more women are able to work. How in the name of common sense can somebody make such a bold claim and say, "Women are smarter than men?"

I'm not saying men are smarter than women. Not at all. But to say that women are smarter than men (when men are the ones who have created all this technology) is a little naive and arrogant.

What do you think?

Smartness has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with education and opportunity. Men have always been given the opportunities but in the current generation things are much more equitable. I have met smart and dumb from both genders, and believe me it has NOTHING to do with their gender.

[Jaime]

Walid Shoebat is smarter than anyone I know, man or woman. His comment in the quote is an ice breaker type statement. I use the very same tool when I am to speak before people.

Stan I agree with your assessment.

[Cally]

There is a guy called Walid Shoebat who use to be a former Muslim. He is now a Christian and travels round warning churches about the threat of Islam. I have one of his books and he seems very genuine. However, on quite a few occasions when he's giving a sermon he says, "Women are smarter than men." And then people laugh and start clapping.

Now, as a man I do not know who is smarter. But the reason I find his statement a little ludicrous is because of technology. Men are the ones who have created space ships, satellite, computers, TV, airplanes, factories, machines, medication, etc. If it wasn't for men inventing computers and factories with machinery, millions of women wouldn't have a job. It's because of men creating all this technology that more women are able to work. How in the name of common sense can somebody make such a bold claim and say, "Women are smarter than men?"

I'm not saying men are smarter than women. Not at all. But to say that women are smarter than men (when men are the ones who have created all this technology) is a little naive and arrogant.

What do you think?

Smartness has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with education and opportunity. Men have always been given the opportunities but in the current generation things are much more equitable. I have met smart and dumb from both genders, and believe me it has NOTHING to do with their gender.

I don't think smartness has to do with education and opportunity at all. I think Peter was a smart man but was "uneducated" according to the Bible.

I disagree with your assessments about past and present generational opportunities.

[Stan53]

I don't think smartness has to do with education and opportunity at all. I think Peter was a smart man but was "uneducated" according to the Bible.
I disagree with your assessments about past and present generational opportunities.

Really? Where does the Bible say Peter was 'uneducated'?
Well of course you have the right to disagree, but at 28 you really don't have the span of experience I do, being 30 years older then  you.

[Cally]

I don't think smartness has to do with education and opportunity at all. I think Peter was a smart man but was "uneducated" according to the Bible.
I disagree with your assessments about past and present generational opportunities.

Really? Where does the Bible say Peter was 'uneducated'?
Well of course you have the right to disagree, but at 28 you really don't have the span of experience I do, being 30 years older then  you.

Acts 4:13 refers to Peter and John as uneducated and ordinary men.

Being 30 years older than me, you probably don't realize what your generation handed mine on this issue. You see, right now, women make a very significant majority of college attendance in general. And yet they still throw out scholarships for women only, and there are measures being taken to force colleges to find SOME way of getting more women into fields that men still dominate (since, as it happens, those fields like those in engineering tend to pay more and actually lead to employment).

The message to men of my generation is loud and clear: if you fail, you are hated as a loser and poor provider. If you succeed, you're hated because your success makes women's success look bad by comparison.

You can simplify that expression easily: men are hated.

[Cally]

When I was younger I would have regurgitated some of the tenets of feminism myself.

Really?  Let's review the "basic tenets" of feminism:

"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"  nah

"In the beginning God made a man.  Then God said 'I can do better than that.' "  really?

"the only good man is a dead man." uh-huh.

"All men are liars, cheaters and rapists.  All women are victims."

And don't forget the research (way behind Jill Ireland's timeline) to be able to perfect reproduction without any male input so they can eliminate all males from the planet.

Statements like that are really blatant and won't quite stand in the mainstream, but, just as many who support feminism won't exactly wage war against the people who make those statements, many have ways of veiling those sentiments.

[Stan53]

I don't think smartness has to do with education and opportunity at all. I think Peter was a smart man but was "uneducated" according to the Bible.
I disagree with your assessments about past and present generational opportunities.

Really? Where does the Bible say Peter was 'uneducated'?
Well of course you have the right to disagree, but at 28 you really don't have the span of experience I do, being 30 years older then  you.

Acts 4:13 refers to Peter and John as uneducated and ordinary men.

Being 30 years older than me, you probably don't realize what your generation handed mine on this issue. You see, right now, women make a very significant majority of college attendance in general. And yet they still throw out scholarships for women only, and there are measures being taken to force colleges to find SOME way of getting more women into fields that men still dominate (since, as it happens, those fields like those in engineering tend to pay more and actually lead to employment).

The message to men of my generation is loud and clear: if you fail, you are hated as a loser and poor provider. If you succeed, you're hated because your success makes women's success look bad by comparison.

You can simplify that expression easily: men are hated.

Ah yes well unschooled and uneducated are two different things. Both of them were orthodox Jews and were definitely educated in the laws of the OT.  I was actually talking about modern day 21st century people.
I can't really speak to your assertions except to say that yes females do make up a higher % of postsecondary enrolment. So as a result women could be as a % of the overall population, "smarter" than men. That is a statistic, not a gender or human condition. People also say whites are smarter than blacks, which is also false and based on postsecondary statistics. You seem to have a personal bias in this issue, which does not make for very effective rational thinking. My original statement stands, regardless of any apparent inequity in our postsecondary systems. I do agree though that most guys look for work rather then get a better education so they can have better professions, but the world is still full of unemployed PHD's or PHD's that aren't working in their chosen secter. In NA this may be the case, but in most other countries in the world, the men get the opportunities and the women don't. Again, not germane to the OP.

[Cally]

I don't think smartness has to do with education and opportunity at all. I think Peter was a smart man but was "uneducated" according to the Bible.
I disagree with your assessments about past and present generational opportunities.

Really? Where does the Bible say Peter was 'uneducated'?
Well of course you have the right to disagree, but at 28 you really don't have the span of experience I do, being 30 years older then  you.

Acts 4:13 refers to Peter and John as uneducated and ordinary men.

Being 30 years older than me, you probably don't realize what your generation handed mine on this issue. You see, right now, women make a very significant majority of college attendance in general. And yet they still throw out scholarships for women only, and there are measures being taken to force colleges to find SOME way of getting more women into fields that men still dominate (since, as it happens, those fields like those in engineering tend to pay more and actually lead to employment).

The message to men of my generation is loud and clear: if you fail, you are hated as a loser and poor provider. If you succeed, you're hated because your success makes women's success look bad by comparison.

You can simplify that expression easily: men are hated.

Ah yes well unschooled and uneducated are two different things. Both of them were orthodox Jews and were definitely educated in the laws of the OT.  I was actually talking about modern day 21st century people.
I can't really speak to your assertions except to say that yes females do make up a higher % of postsecondary enrolment. So as a result women could be as a % of the overall population, "smarter" than men. That is a statistic, not a gender or human condition. People also say whites are smarter than blacks, which is also false and based on postsecondary statistics. You seem to have a personal bias in this issue, which does not make for very effective rational thinking. My original statement stands, regardless of any apparent inequity in our postsecondary systems. I do agree though that most guys look for work rather then get a better education so they can have better professions, but the world is still full of unemployed PHD's or PHD's that aren't working in their chosen secter. In NA this may be the case, but in most other countries in the world, the men get the opportunities and the women don't. Again, not germane to the OP.

Stan,

Some translations of Acts 4:13 say "unschooled." It doesn't matter at any rate, as "uneducated" I think is obviously in the sense that one would be uneducated today. The point is, unless you think that means John and Peter were not smart because they were uneducated, I believe strongly that "smart" has no connection to whether or not you have a college degree. My college degree did not make me smarter (I'd say it was an uphill battle not to let it make me become dumber), although my post-bacc and graduate studies in Computer Science have been rather stimulating to learn new skills . . . but again, no way would I say it makes me "smarter," nor does my success with it indicate intelligence meaningfully; at least, not as meaningfully as the astuteness and wisdom of figures like John and Peter.

[Cally]

Also, Stan, let's take a step back and take a gander at reality for a moment: college, today, is a sham for the most part, says a trillion dollars in student debt. Like school in general it's an artificial environment that is obviously not indicative of actual competence.

As it happens--and this may be worth pondering--most of the fields women appear to dominate in college are the ones that prove the least effective degrees.  Hence the fact that now measures are being taken to shoehorn women into male-dominated fields that actually DO have some credibility.

Try wrapping your head around that fact and see what happens.

[Stan53]

Stan,
Some translations of Acts 4:13 say "unschooled." It doesn't matter at any rate, as "uneducated" I think is obviously in the sense that one would be uneducated today. The point is, unless you think that means John and Peter were not smart because they were uneducated, I believe strongly that "smart" has no connection to whether or not you have a college degree. My college degree did not make me smarter (I'd say it was an uphill battle not to let it make me become dumber), although my post-bacc and graduate studies in Computer Science have been rather stimulating to learn new skills . . . but again, no way would I say it makes me "smarter," nor does my success with it indicate intelligence meaningfully; at least, not as meaningfully as the astuteness and wisdom of figures like John and Peter.

The OP was about today, NOT 2000 years ago. You brought up Peter and I asked. You answered. I'm fine with it. There is NO correlation.
Smart as the OP dealt with does. It doesn't as far as gender is concerned. Wise and smart, astute and smart, are NOT the same. In the context of the OP was how I answered. Please don't try to make this about bad school system or other inequities in North America. Your education makes you 'smarter' than me, but NOT wiser, or better equipped to handle life, or anything else for that matter, except to get a job. Although I'm retired so need for me to work.    The furthest I got in school was grade 10 and then went and got a job. Did it for almost 40 years. Was not very smart in business and did some pretty dumb things in business and life. My educated sons are much better off on the smart scale, except for the one whole didn't finish high school. He's not dumb, but he's not smart. I pray you are seeing the difference.

[Stan53]

Also, Stan, let's take a step back and take a gander at reality for a moment: college, today, is a sham for the most part, says a trillion dollars in student debt. Like school in general it's an artificial environment that is obviously not indicative of actual competence.

As it happens--and this may be worth pondering--most of the fields women appear to dominate in college are the ones that prove the least effective degrees.  Hence the fact that now measures are being taken to shoehorn women into male-dominated fields that actually DO have some credibility.

Try wrapping your head around that fact and see what happens.

Let's take a step back all right, OFF your soapbox and back onto topic if you don't mind. You my friend, are developing a couple of noids. I suggest you pray about it.

[Cally]

Stan,
Some translations of Acts 4:13 say "unschooled." It doesn't matter at any rate, as "uneducated" I think is obviously in the sense that one would be uneducated today. The point is, unless you think that means John and Peter were not smart because they were uneducated, I believe strongly that "smart" has no connection to whether or not you have a college degree. My college degree did not make me smarter (I'd say it was an uphill battle not to let it make me become dumber), although my post-bacc and graduate studies in Computer Science have been rather stimulating to learn new skills . . . but again, no way would I say it makes me "smarter," nor does my success with it indicate intelligence meaningfully; at least, not as meaningfully as the astuteness and wisdom of figures like John and Peter.

The OP was about today, NOT 2000 years ago. You brought up Peter and I asked. You answered. I'm fine with it. There is NO correlation.
Smart as the OP dealt with does. It doesn't as far as gender is concerned. Wise and smart, astute and smart, are NOT the same. In the context of the OP was how I answered. Please don't try to make this about bad school system or other inequities in North America. Your education makes you 'smarter' than me, but NOT wiser, or better equipped to handle life, or anything else for that matter, except to get a job. Although I'm retired so need for me to work.    The furthest I got in school was grade 10 and then went and got a job. Did it for almost 40 years. Was not very smart in business and did some pretty dumb things in business and life. My educated sons are much better off on the smart scale, except for the one whole didn't finish high school. He's not dumb, but he's not smart. I pray you are seeing the difference.

Foregoing prolonging in arguing semantics, I think I agree. Some people teach themselves skills and run circles around those who are "educated" for that matter (the ultimate examples can be found with those educated in scriptures in Jesus' day, of course).

[Cally]

Also, Stan, let's take a step back and take a gander at reality for a moment: college, today, is a sham for the most part, says a trillion dollars in student debt. Like school in general it's an artificial environment that is obviously not indicative of actual competence.

As it happens--and this may be worth pondering--most of the fields women appear to dominate in college are the ones that prove the least effective degrees.  Hence the fact that now measures are being taken to shoehorn women into male-dominated fields that actually DO have some credibility.

Try wrapping your head around that fact and see what happens.

Let's take a step back all right, OFF your soapbox and back onto topic if you don't mind. You my friend, are developing a couple of noids. I suggest you pray about it.

What's a "noid"? 

[TonkaTim]

Also, Stan, let's take a step back and take a gander at reality for a moment: college, today, is a sham for the most part, says a trillion dollars in student debt. Like school in general it's an artificial environment that is obviously not indicative of actual competence.

As it happens--and this may be worth pondering--most of the fields women appear to dominate in college are the ones that prove the least effective degrees.  Hence the fact that now measures are being taken to shoehorn women into male-dominated fields that actually DO have some credibility.

Try wrapping your head around that fact and see what happens.

Let's take a step back all right, OFF your soapbox and back onto topic if you don't mind. You my friend, are developing a couple of noids. I suggest you pray about it.

What's a "noid"? 

The Noid

The Noid

[Cally]

Yikes! I think Stan is right about needing to pray about developing noids in that case!   

[Jaime]

I took Stan's comment is that you are developing noids, as in para. could be way off. But based on previous threads, that might be it.

[Cally]

I took Stan's comment is that you are developing noids, as in para. could be way off. But based on previous threads, that might be it.

That was my best guess too, actually.

[DaveW]

Statements like that are really blatant and won't quite stand in the mainstream, but, just as many who support feminism won't exactly wage war against the people who make those statements, many have ways of veiling those sentiments.

Not mainstream? 

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle - Gloria Steinem [quoting Irene Dunn]

In the beginning God made a man.  Then God said 'I can do better than that.' -  Adela Rogers St. Johns  [a reporter who covered the women's movement in the 60s and 70s]

the only good man is a dead man. - Margaret Holmes Bates

I would say that Steinem and Rogers St Johns are pretty mainstream in the feminist movement.  Perhaps Bates not so much.

[Bitter Sweet]

"well-behaved women seldom make history" Marilyn Monroe

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"well-behaved women seldom make history" Marilyn Monroe

A solid quote, but it also applies equally to men.  Ironic, iddn't it?

Jarrod

[Man_Of_Honor]

Statements like that are really blatant and won't quite stand in the mainstream, but, just as many who support feminism won't exactly wage war against the people who make those statements, many have ways of veiling those sentiments.

Not mainstream? 

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle - Gloria Steinem [quoting Irene Dunn]

In the beginning God made a man.  Then God said 'I can do better than that.' -  Adela Rogers St. Johns  [a reporter who covered the women's movement in the 60s and 70s]

the only good man is a dead man. - Margaret Holmes Bates

I would say that Steinem and Rogers St Johns are pretty mainstream in the feminist movement. Perhaps Bates not so much.

Yep.

[Bitter Sweet]

"well-behaved women seldom make history" Marilyn Monroe

A solid quote, but it also applies equally to men.  Ironic, iddn't it?

Jarrod

Sure is but Eve did it first. 

[Down Syndrome Danny]

What obey the gospel may have been trying to raise of awareness of was not the question of who is actually smarter, but instead, why does the topic come up every so often and get the same type of laughter-based response?

The answer is that there pervades among the populace a particular sickness.  It is so common that it has become normalized.  Sexual envy and strife are not part of the true believer though.  God declares that the role of the child bearer is just as important as the man who teaches the gospel.  Being a stay-at-home mom is just as important as the man who works in the field, sweating, to produce food for his wives and children. 

I'm typing differently today.  Notice the capitalization of every sentence?  What's that?  You don't like it?  ~~~~~~~~~~~ deal with it  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"well-behaved women seldom make history" Marilyn Monroe

A solid quote, but it also applies equally to men.  Ironic, iddn't it?

Jarrod

Sure is but Eve did it first. 

Thank you for that excellent example of "female logic."

Bazinga!

[Bitter Sweet]

Thank you for that excellent example of "female logic."

Bazinga!

Have you been drinking that b-12 stuff today?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

No, officer, I'm clean.  I swear!

[Bitter Sweet]

Ok, considering your location I suppose it isn't too late to be catching a second wind.