Concerning the Soul

[Alethos]

3Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort

Jesus has a God and a Father

[ChristNU]

Are you stating that Jesus wasn't God but became God?

The text is very clear that Jesus attributed something to his Father that he himself did not possess.

The question you should ask is what was not good in Christ?

Did Jesus say that He was not good? You are making an assumption based on your pre-conceived notions.

Actually, this is one of the clearer passages of Jesus proclaiming His deity. Only God is good, Jesus is good, therefore Jesus is God.

Some serious deception going on there.

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God

-Jesus is not God
-Jesus rebukes for even implying he is good
-jesus moves his focus to the sole source of good -- God his Father.

Straight forward really.

You are reading your own prejudice into it. There is no rebuke and there is no denial of His own inherent goodness. There is simply the question the leads to the truth. Why call Jesus good if God alone is good? Why indeed.

Don't call me good only One is good that is God.

Your still reading into it. He does not say not to call Him good.

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Yep. Jesus is good, and Jesus is God. A clear proclamation of His own deity.

If this allows you to sleep easy...if its any consolation I understand why it is you hold on to these beliefs so tightly.

But imagine the discovery if you opened your mind to a deeper truth.

It does allow me to sleep easy, thank you. I am glad you understand why I hold to biblical Christian beliefs...seeing how I am a Christian.

I would rather imagine what you might discover if you would open your mind to the Truth, the only God our Savior, Jesus Christ (Jude 1:24).

This is Jude 24

24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

Thank you. Fixed. But do not strain out the gnat and swallow a camel. Or in other words do not miss the Truth that can set you free.

[Jimmy]

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus has a God.

You have thoroughly misunderstood what Jesus said concerning God and concerning His Father.

Jesus is God.  Jesus has a Father.  The Father is God.   There is one God.  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  They are one.

[grace]

In James 2:16
It says that the body without the spirit is dead. It does not say the spirit dies, does it? Just the body!

Hi Grace.

and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (Jas 2:16)

You might have done it again?

A.

did I give th wrong scripture again?

[Lively Stone]

Are you stating that Jesus wasn't God but became God?

The text is very clear that Jesus attributed something to his Father that he himself did not possess.

The question you should ask is what was not good in Christ?

How about a simple "yes" or "no" answer?

and that is ALL I want.

No....Jesus could never be God nor could he ever become God.

How can the created become the creator?

A Son could never become the Father but it was sufficient that he become like his Father.

A.

Denying that Jesus is God denies Jesus the Saviour.


But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.  Isaiah 7:14  (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. Luke 7:16

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

Lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:14-17

For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

[grace]

In James 2:16
It says that the body without the spirit is dead. It does not say the spirit dies, does it? Just the body!

Hi Grace.

and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (Jas 2:16)

You might have done it again?

A.

did I give th wrong scripture again?

I meant James 2:26..but you probably knew that...
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

You were to free to show my wrong scripture..but did not address anything in my post???  This shows that the body dies...not the spirit? So something in us is eternal!

[Alethos]

In James 2:16
It says that the body without the spirit is dead. It does not say the spirit dies, does it? Just the body!

Hi Grace.

and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (Jas 2:16)

You might have done it again?

A.

did I give th wrong scripture again?

Hi Grace,

Yes, but its ok...when ever people quote a passage to support a belief I like to look them up - it helps me to understand their reasoning.

A.

[Alethos]

In James 2:16
It says that the body without the spirit is dead. It does not say the spirit dies, does it? Just the body!

Hi Grace.

and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (Jas 2:16)

You might have done it again?

A.

did I give th wrong scripture again?

I meant James 2:16..but you probably knew that...
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

You were to free to show my wrong scripture..but did not address anything in my post???  This shows that the body dies...not the spirit? So something in us is eternal!

Yes Grace,

This is true in many respects.

If God were to withdraw his breath from us we would certainly and naturally die.

If he (God) set his heart (mind) upon man, if he (God) gather unto himself his spirit (breath) and his breath (wind); All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. (Job 34:14-15)

So Grace, James' understanding is correct; if God withdrew his Breath and Wind from us we all would return to dust...James 2 holds no teaching of man possessing an immortal part of God.

Please note the brackets () in the above verse show the actual meaning of the word being implied.

But dont take my word for that; feel oblidged to look yourself.

A.

[Alethos]

For as the body without the spirit (breath) is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (Jas 2:26)

For this is true is it not?

If you stop breathing what happens?

However, Grace, if you took this to a spiritual level which is also intended.

When Adam was created "God spoke" His voice went forth and they were created.

We read this truth in - - Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created. (Psa 148:5)

So the Physical Creation is reliant on the command (voice) of God - how more so in terms of the message of hope within us?

The New Covenant which God shall use to regraft his people Israel back into the Olive Tree is it not a divine message taking root in the mind?

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:10)

This is the definition of being in a covenant relationship with God...nothing to do at all with anything eternal in their nature - - the only thing eternal is the message - - full stop!

Enjoy

A.

[Alethos]

How confused in the Theology Forum with threads like this one:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-experience-of-mixing-soul-and-spirit/

[Lively Stone]

How confused in the Theology Forum with threads like this one:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-experience-of-mixing-soul-and-spirit/

You're telling me. Some people think they can explain things better than God can in His very word. Instead, they sow confusion.

[Alethos]

How confused in the Theology Forum with threads like this one:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-experience-of-mixing-soul-and-spirit/

You're telling me. Some people think they can explain things better than God can in His very word. Instead, they sow confusion.

Cute...is she yours?

The thread is a disaster... be thankful you didnt start it...the Father hates lies and falsehood.

[Lively Stone]

How confused in the Theology Forum with threads like this one:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-experience-of-mixing-soul-and-spirit/

You're telling me. Some people think they can explain things better than God can in His very word. Instead, they sow confusion.

Cute...is she yours?

The thread is a disaster... be thankful you didnt start it...the Father hates lies and falsehood.

Yes she is cute but only a gif from the internet.

I would never initiate a thread like that. It is just more of the same nonsense we are up against all the time.

[Hobie]

This consideration on the subject of the Soul hopes to be a very simple review of the word soul and how it is used in the Bible.

Discussion thread which motivated this thread can be read here

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/what-does-the-dividing-of-spirit-soul-and-body-look-like-pictorally/?PHPSESSID=790289897fe22b3f40483f659213850c

Firstly, it is important I put forth the Bible teaching of Soul in light of the above thread and its apparent confusion.  It is not conceivable that man has an 'immortal soul' or any immortal element within him naturally for reason explored below. 

And by naturally I mean within our flesh and blood nature - - has no good thing.

For I (Paul) know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (Romans 7:18)

Here Paul is very particular to focus our attention on the flesh nature knowing that inherently within that nature is no good thing. He goes on to define why our nature is absent of any good thing, because a law works within its mortal frame that makes it bias toward sin and death.
 
We hope to attempt to clear up any confusion surrounding the word 'soul' in this study.  While I expect many will interject and I believe this is valuable I would ask that you always provide Bible verses to support your understanding. In doing this we will have a common point of reference to work from. 

And God is never wrong 

Hebrew = Nephesh
Greek = Psuche

Translated as such:

•   Body
•   Breath
•   Creature
•   Heart
•   Mind
•   Person
•   Himself 

Those reading this will recall how the soul of an animal is no different to the soul of a person; only that the word soul will infer different meaning depending on context.

The first occurrence of Soul in the Bible (animal):

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. (Genesis 1:20)

Came across this which seems to agree..
Body, Soul, Spirit

Man, like all beings endowed with life, originated from two elements,—namely, from earthly material (עָפָר, אֲדָמָה), and from the Divine Spirit (רוּחַ), Gen. 2:7, comp. Ps. 104:29 f., 146:4. As in general נֶפֶשׁ, soul, originates in the בָּשָׂר, the flesh, by the union of spirit with matter, so in particular the human soul arises in the human body by the breathing of the divine breath (נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים) into the material frame of the human body. But although the life-spring of the רוּחַ, from which the soul arises, is common to man and beast, both do not originate from it in the same way. The souls of animals arise, like plants from the earth, as a consequence of the divine word of power, Gen. 1:24 (תּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ). Thus the creating spirit which entered in the beginning, 1:2, into matter, rules in them; their connection with the divine spring of life is through the medium of the common terrestrial creation. But the human soul does not spring from the earth; it is created by a special act of divine inbreathing; see 2:7 in connection with 1:26. The human body was formed from the earth before the soul; in it, therefore, those powers operate which are inherent to matter apart from the soul (a proposition which is of great importance, as Delitzsch rightly remarks). But the human body is still not an animated body; the powers existing in the material frame are not yet comprehended into a unity of life; the breath of life is communicated to this frame directly from God, and so the living man originates. According to the view of many, the specific difference between the life of the human soul and that of animals is expressed by the use of the term נְשָׁמָה in 2:7 (2). This, however, cannot be established, for in 7:22 ("All in whose nostrils was the breath of life died"), the exclusive reference of the expression נְשָׁמָה to man (as merely another expression for כֹּל הָאָדָם, ver. 21), coming between the general terms comprehending man and beast, which stand both before and after it, is not natural. In Deut. 20:16, Josh. 10:40, 11:11–14, כָּל־נְשָׁמָה denotes only men; but in these passages the special reference of the expression is made clear by the connection,—in the passage in Deuteronomy by ver. 18, and in the book of Joshua because from 8:2 onward the cattle are excepted from the חֵרֶם. Otherwise one might as well prove from Josh. 11:11, where כָּל־הַנֶּפֶשׁ is used exclusively of man, that the human soul alone is called נֶפֶשׁ. But it is correct that in the other places in the Old Testament in which נְשָׁמָה occurs it is never expressly used of the mere animal principle of life; p 150 comp. Isa. 42:5, Prov. 20:27, Job 32:8, and Ps. 150:6 (כֹּל הַנְּשָׁמָה). Thus the substance of the human soul is the divine spirit of life uniting itself with matter; the spirit is not merely the cause by reason of which the נֶפֶש contained beforehand in the body becomes living, as Gen. 2:7 has by some been understood (3). For in the עָפָר as such, in the structure of dust, there is, according to the Old Testament, as yet no נֶפֶשׁ, even latently. This is first in the בָּשָׂר, in the flesh; but the earthly materials do not become flesh until the רוּחַ has become united with it, 6:17, 7:15, Job 12:10, 34:14 f. It is no proof against this (as has further been objected) that in some passages (Lev. 21:11; Num. 6:6), the dead body from which, according to Gen. 35:18, the soul has departed, is called נֶפֶשׁ מֵת before it crumbles to dust. I believe this expression is to be understood as a euphemistic metonymy, just as we speak of a dead person without meaning to say that the personality lies in the body; or perhaps in this designation of a dead person the impression is expressed which the corpse makes immediately after death, as if the element of the soul had not yet entirely separated itself (thus Delitzsch) (4). But as the soul sprang from the spirit, the רוּחַ, and contains the substance of the spirit as the basis of its existence, the soul exists and lives also only by the power of the רוּחַ; in order to live, the soul which is called into existence must remain in connection with the source of its life. "God's spirit made me" (רוּחַ אֵל עָשָׂ֑תְנִי), says Job. 33:4, "and the breath of the Almighty animates me" (וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְחַיֵנִי, with the imperfect). The first sentence expresses the way in which the human soul is called into being; the second, the continuing condition of its subsistence. By the withdrawing of the רוּחַ the soul becomes wearied and weak, till at last in death it becomes a shadow, and enters the kingdom of the dead (comp. § 78); while by the רוּחַ streaming in, it receives vital energy. With this explanation the Old Testament usage in connection with the terms נֶפֶשׁ and רוּחַ becomes intelligible. In the soul, which sprang from the spirit, and exists continually through it, lies the individuality,—in the case of man his personality, his self, his ego; because man is not רוּחַ, but has it—he is soul. Hence only נַפְשִׁי, נַפְשְׁךָ, can stand for egomet ipse, tu ipse, etc., not רוּחִי, רוּחֲךָ, etc. (not so in Arabic); hence "soul" often stands for the whole person, Gen. 12:5, 17:14, Ezek. 18:4, etc. When man is exhausted by illness, his רוּחַ is corrupted within him, Job 17:1 (רוּחִי חֻבָּלָה), so that the soul still continues to vegetate wearily. When a person in a swoon comes to himself again, it is said his spirit returns to him, 1 Sam. 30:12 (וַתָּֽשָׁב נֶפֶשׁ) compared with Judg. 15:19. But when one dies, it is said the soul departs, Gen. 35:18; his soul is taken from him, 1 Kings 19:4, Jonah 4:3. When a dead person becomes alive again, is is said the soul returns again, 1 Kings 17:22 (וַתָּֽשָׁב נֶפֶשׁ). It is said of Jacob, whose sunken vital energy revived when he found his son again, that his spirit was quickened, Gen. 45:27 (וַתְּחִי רוּחַ). On the contrary, of one who is preserved in life it is said, חָיְתָה נֶפֶשׁ, [the soul lives] Jer. 38:17–20. When God rescues one from the jaws of death, it is said, Ps. 30:4, "Thou hast brought up my soul out of Sheol;" comp. Ps. 16:10 (5).—Man perceives and thinks by virtue of the spirit which animates him (Job 32:8; Prov. 20:27); wherefore it is said in 1 Kings 10:5, when the Queen of Sheba's comprehension was brought to a stand, that "there was no spirit in her more" (לֹא־הָיָה בָהּ עוֹד רוּחַ); but the p 151 perceiving and thinking subject itself is the נֶפֶש (comp. § 71). The impulse to act proceeds from the רוּחִ, Ex. 35:21; hence one who rules himself is a משֵׁל בְּרוּחוֹ, Prov. 16:32. But the acting subject is not the רוּחַ, but the נֶפֶשׁ; the soul is the subject which sins, Ezek. 18:4, etc. Love and attachment are of course a thing of the soul, Gen. 34:3 (וִתִּדְבַּק נַפְשׁוֹ) and ver. 8 (חָשְׁקָה נַפְשׁוֹ); and so in Cant. 5:6, the words of the beloved, נַפְשִׁי יָצְאָה, cannot be explained, "I was out of my senses" (as De Wette thinks), but the bride feels as if her very personality had gone forth from her to follow and seek her beloved. In many cases, indeed, נֶפֶשׁ and רוּחַ stand indifferently, according as the matter is looked upon—that is, to use Hofmann's words (Schriftbeweis, i. p. 296), according as "the personality is named after its special individual life, or after the living power which forms the condition of its special character." Thus it may be said on the one hand, "Why is thy spirit so stubborn?" (מַה־זֶּה רוּחֲךָ סָרָה), 1 Kings 21:5; on the other hand, "Why are thou so bowed down, O my soul?" (מַה־תּשְׁתּוחֲחִי נַפְשׁי), Ps. 42:12. Of impatience it may be said, "The soul is short" (וַתִּקְצַר נֶפֶשׁ), Num. 21:4, and "shortness of the spirit" (קֹצֶר רוּחַ), Ex. 6:9; compare Job 21:4. Trouble of heart is "bitterness of the spirit" (מֹרַת רוּחַ), Gen. 26:35; and of the soul (הֵמַר נַפְשִׁי), Job 27:2, it is said וַתּפָֽעֶם רוּחוֹ, Gen. 41:8, and נַפְשִׁי נִבְהֲלָה מְאֹד, Ps. 6:4. Compare with this in particular the climax in Isa. 26:9 (6). From all this it is clear that the Old Testament does not teach a trichotomy of the human being in the sense of body, soul, and spirit, as being originally three co-ordinate elements of man; rather the whole man is included in the בָּשָׂר and נֶפֶשׁ (body and soul), which spring from the union of the רוּחַ with matter, Ps. 84:3, Isa. 10:18; comp. Ps. 16:9. The רוּחַ forms in part the substance of the soul individualized in it, and in part, after the soul is established, the power and endowments which flow into it and can be withdrawn from it (7), (8)...Oehler, G. F., & Day, G. E. (1883). Theology of the Old Testament (pp. 149–152). Funk & Wagnalls.