Will Sunday worship keep Christians from Eternal Life?

[chosenone]

Now we can rest at any time in Jesus. HE is our rest now. We dont need to wait for a particular day, as He is in us ALL the time.

[DaveW]

Now we can rest at any time in Jesus. HE is our rest now. We dont need to wait for a particular day, as He is in us ALL the time.

That is very true.

But it does not change the fact that keeping a visible weekly sabbath is a covenantal sign between God and the Jews.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Jews are commanded to assemble before God on the Sabbath:Lev 23.1  The Lord spoke to Moses, saying,2 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the Lord that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.3 "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places.

Parallelism dictates that the word convocation is used as a synonym for "feast" in this passage.  Also in virtually every other verse where the word occurs, after a cursory check of Strong's lexicon.


There's nothing to dictate that they are to assemble "before God" nor that there is any worship or actions commanded of them.  In fact, they are commanded repeatedly not to do things.  The one exception - repeated exception - is to EAT.  They are to assemble to EAT.  Convocation means a group meal, not synagogue.


Jarrod

[DaveW]

There's nothing to dictate that they are to assemble "before God" nor that there is any worship or actions commanded of them.  In fact, they are commanded repeatedly not to do things.  The one exception - repeated exception - is to EAT.  They are to assemble to EAT.  Convocation means a group meal, not synagogue.

In most cases I could agree, at least in part.  The one glaring exception is Yom Kippur (day of atonement) when it was commanded to "afflict your souls" commonly understood to be a 24 hour fast. Our Lord did not change that understanding.

And traditional Jewish interpretation (which was also NOT corrected by our Lord) took 'convocation' to be a religious meeting either in the temple or synagogue.

(edited to correct spelling)

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

On the one hand there are the thirty something sabbaths per year legalists, and on the other hand the self-made Sunday legalists; and on the third hand even the one Sabbath-legalists competing for first place in legalism.

I back no one of them horses.

All I want to say, is, the biggest liar is the Sunday horse. From its mouth, don't accept anything!

It is a LIE man -  a just simply a lie man, quote, "On the first day of the week, we gathered " ... "we gathered ..." NOT WRITTEN! lying man pretending it is God's Word; that's what it is.

[DaveW]

All I want to say, is, the biggest liar is the Sunday horse. From its mouth, don't accept anything!

It is a LIE man -  a just simply a lie man, quote, "On the first day of the week, we gathered " ... "we gathered ..." NOT WRITTEN! lying man pretending it is God's Word; that's what it is.

Acts 20.7 On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and continued his speech until midnight.

To me the phrase (which is in passive tense instead of active) says what you say is "not written."

That should be example enough to allow for a Sunday worship service (at least for gentiles). To be sure there are many more references to the Saturday Sabbath, but always in reference to Jews/Israelites. But nowhere does it say Gentiles are mandated to follow that.

[MeMyself]

All I want to say, is, the biggest liar is the Sunday horse. From its mouth, don't accept anything!

It is a LIE man -  a just simply a lie man, quote, "On the first day of the week, we gathered " ... "we gathered ..." NOT WRITTEN! lying man pretending it is God's Word; that's what it is.

Acts 20.7 On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and continued his speech until midnight.

To me the phrase (which is in passive tense instead of active) says what you say is "not written."

That should be example enough to allow for a Sunday worship service (at least for gentiles). To be sure there are many more references to the Saturday Sabbath, but always in reference to Jews/Israelites. But nowhere does it say Gentiles are mandated to follow that.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Acts20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight."Looks like they simply came together to have a meal, not to worship God.

Facts are, "they" NOT "simply came together" on the First Day of the week.

Fact is, "Having been assembling STILL on the First Day of the week AFTER we BEFORE for THE to Break-Bread (Lord's Supper) OF US, HAD been assembling, Paul discussed matters with them ..."

That is what the Greek says.

Therefore the purpose of the disciples' ORIGINAL "having had come together" - the Perfect - was not "simply a meal" but "to worship God" through the Lord's DISCIPLES', "Breaking Bread" --- the breaking of the Bread "OF US" the believers-in-worship. And "when having been assembling STILL on the First Day, Paul addressed them".

UNDENIABLE AND UNAVOIDABLE IMPLICATION:  The disciples on the day before - on the SABBATH before "on the First Day", "HAD HAD been assembling first for to worship God through 'their', Lord's Supper THE-OF-US-Breaking-of-Bread; THEN having been STILL assembling on the First Day of the week, Paul addressed them ..."

... "addressed them about / discussed with them", matters --- itinerary 'matters', OBVIOUS from the CONTEXT.

[Hobie]

Parallelism dictates that the word convocation is used as a synonym for "feast" in this passage.  Also in virtually every other verse where the word occurs, after a cursory check of Strong's lexicon.


There's nothing to dictate that they are to assemble "before God" nor that there is any worship or actions commanded of them.  In fact, they are commanded repeatedly not to do things.  The one exception - repeated exception - is to EAT.  They are to assemble to EAT.  Convocation means a group meal, not synagogue.


Jarrod

Well, you don't have to look far to see that the Sabbath is special, check out your local synagogue...

[beam]

Lets be clear about the fact that the old covenant has past.  It is no longer a binding agreement with Israel and God.  Since that is the real truth the laws of that covenant have also been cancelled.  Jews are longer bound to a covenant that does not exist, so they are no longer under the Sabbath requirements of that defunct covenant.

The new covenant that Jesus ratified at Calvary has nothing to do with the requirements of the old covenant that was only for Israel.  We are free to assemble when and where we please.  It is nonsense to believe that worshipping on Sunday will keep a person from eternal life.   It is also nonsense to believe that worshipping on the defunct old covenant required Sabbath has anything to do with salvation. 

Abraham was not saved because he kept Sabbath, which there is no account that he did such a thing anyway, he was saved because of his faith just like every living child of God is saved.

[Shubee]

Will Sunday worship keep Christians from Eternal Life?

Will the sin of enabling genocide sanctimoniously keep Seventh-day Adventists from Eternal Life?

[beam]

Will the sin of enabling genocide sanctimoniously keep Seventh-day Adventists from Eternal Life?

I guess you enjoy using the word "genocide".  The dictionary meaning of the word means: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
I guess i am not savvy enough to understand why you use a word like that to describe What might happen to SDAs.  Just who are SDAs trying to exterminate?.  Please answer my questions.  I am kind enough to answer yours.  Pay some respect to others if you want to continue debates.  Otherwise I have no other recourse that to ignore your posts.

[Shubee]

Please answer my questions.  I am kind enough to answer yours.

Liar. You don't have any sensible answers.

[beam]

Liar. You don't have any sensible answers.

That is really funny coming from you.   Notice, you cannot ever hurt me with your rhetoric.  Your bombastic words will never convince anyone to take you or your beliefs seriously.

[current occupant2]

Saturday worship is just as likely to keep a person from eternal life!!

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Beam:
That is really funny coming from you.   Notice, you cannot ever hurt me with your rhetoric.  Your bombastic words will never convince anyone to take you or your beliefs seriously.

Pride comes before the bomb blasts / fxxts flat.

[Hobie]

The answer is no. We can worship God any day any time. I am amazed that anyone would think that it matters that much.

So can we set aside the Commandments of God for the traditions of man?
Then why did Christ continually point everyone to the law?

"17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!" Mark 10:17:24.

[piecrust]

I don't know of any Christian that worships Sunday.

And Saturday is not the sabbath.  According to the Bible, you need to know when the new moon is. 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Piecrest: #52
I don't know of any Christian that worships Sunday.

And Saturday is not the sabbath.  According to the Bible, you need to know when the new moon is.

AH! Now I remember where I remembered you from, from Pie in the sky moon-crest-sabbath beset little island on plus minus the 0 longitude BECAUSE YOU CANNOT STAND YOUR MAN in the moon against the overwhelming majority of Sunday worshippers on the continents on both sides of you!

I have very bad news for you. Genesis 1 says the sun shall rule! Your moon is but the sun's small mirror deflecting its light to the earth.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Beam: #44
Lets be clear about the fact that the old covenant has past.

Let's be clear about the fact that the old covenant is alive and well better than ever before. You are one perfect example of its resilience and blooming vitality.

[piecrust]

Let's be clear about the fact that the old covenant is alive and well better than ever before. You are one perfect example of its resilience and blooming vitality.

Right so that answers the question I just asked you.

Trapped on Mount Sinai in the smoke and thunder.

Grace and peace came with Jesus Christ, while the law came with Moses.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

ChoseNone: #35
Now we can rest at any time in Jesus. HE is our rest now. We dont need to wait for a particular day, as He is in us ALL the time. 

"If Jesus gave them Rest (Himself, "the Rest of God"), there therefore for the People of God remains a Sabbath's-Day-of-Rest" .. which you despise and judge as below yourself or your need in the fear of God. Rather let SELF sit on the throne in us ALL the time, not He, Jesus, because how can He "the Lord of the SABBATH" - despicable thing - be in US all the time!? WE don't need it! NOT EVEN AS THE BODY THAT IS CHRIST'S OWN HIS CHURCH, do we need The Lord's Day. What can a day even if it is the Sabbath of the LORD GOD the Son of God Resurrected on, mean to US? It's an insult!

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

MoonPie: #55
Right so that answers the question I just asked you.
Trapped on Mount Sinai in the smoke and thunder.
Grace and peace came with Jesus Christ, while the law came with Moses.

Read Hebrews 12:18-28. To be trapped on Mount Sinai is child's play. But to be trapped in God's Judgement is another matter. If an Israelite who despised the law and Moses got caught in smoke and thunder, boy o boy, what do you think will a Christian who despises The Law of God in Christ be caught in? "No grace and peace for the wicked!"

[Texas Conservative]

Read Hebrews 12:18-28. To be trapped on Mount Sinai is child's play. But to be trapped in God's Judgement is another matter. If an Israelite who despised the law and Moses got caught in smoke and thunder, boy o boy, what do you think will a Christian who despises The Law of God in Christ be caught in? "No grace and peace for the wicked!"

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

...and even more silliness...

'It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.'

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Dave W: #40

Acts 20.7 On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and continued his speech until midnight.

To me the phrase (which is in passive tense instead of active) says what you say is "not written."

That should be example enough to allow for a Sunday worship service (at least for gentiles). To be sure there are many more references to the Saturday Sabbath, but always in reference to Jews/Israelites. But nowhere does it say Gentiles are mandated to follow that.

pathetic.

There's not one <reference to the Saturday Sabbath> in all of Scripture.

There is no example of the Sabbath <in reference to Jews/Israelites> exclusively.

There is no instance in all of Scripture where <Gentiles are mandated> anything under the sun.

Acts 20.7 <On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread> is the exact opposite of what the Greek Text strictly and unassailable and exclusive, says and implies. It goes, "On the First Day of the week they (with Paul, 7 disciples) were ('sun-ehg-men-ohn' Pf Prt) still assembling together, after before (on the Sabbath) having been assembling together for Our To Break Bread". [Infinitive of Noun-force 'hehmohn klasai arton' Lord's Supper] 

[piecrust]

Read Hebrews 12:18-28. To be trapped on Mount Sinai is child's play. But to be trapped in God's Judgement is another matter. If an Israelite who despised the law and Moses got caught in smoke and thunder, boy o boy, what do you think will a Christian who despises The Law of God in Christ be caught in? "No grace and peace for the wicked!"

Child's play?  But you haven't escaped.

Christians who believe the words of Jesus have passed from death to life.  John 5:24.  They have plenty of grace and peace. 

You should try it.  The way you speak to people round here shows you haven't found grace and peace.  Let Jesus find you.  Stop running.

[Amo]

Child's play?  But you haven't escaped.

Christians who believe the words of Jesus have passed from death to life.  John 5:24.  They have plenty of grace and peace. 

You should try it.  The way you speak to people round here shows you haven't found grace and peace.  Let Jesus find you.  Stop running.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Yet many who professed Him were never known by Him.

[Texas Conservative]

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Yet many who professed Him were never known by Him.

Law keeping as found in Galatians 5 will do much harm.  Colossians 2 says:

Colossians 2:16-22
[16]Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-
[17]things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
[18]Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
[19]and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
[20]If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
[21]"Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
[22](which all refer to things destined to perish with use)-in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

[piecrust]

Yet many who professed Him were never known by Him.

Yes.  Remember that. 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

TexCon: #63
Colossians 2 says:

Colossians 2 KJV
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:- 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul COMMENDS and ENCOURAGES and ASSURES the 'heathen' Christians of Collosae in face of the haughty unbelieving WORLD:
"Do not you THEREFORE (because of Christ's triumph over death) let yourselves be judged / condemned / damned by anybody (of the world) with regard to your eating and drinking of a feast of yours whether of month's or of Sabbaths': WHICH IS a spectre of things a-coming, indeed the Body of Christ's Own (the Church) .... holding to the Head from which all the Body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered (by eating and drinking of Christ spiritually), and knit together (united against the world) increaseth with the increase of God."
SHOW ME A MORE POSITIVE PICTURE OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST WHILE SABBATH-KEEPING!

the "shadow is indeed the promise / spectre / shadow of things-a-coming...." "Of things-a-coming" which Paul goes straight on to define as "the reality / the substance / the solid fact of the Body that belongs to Christ / the Body
of Christ's (Own)" the Church.
Paul's intention is not 'the Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact', of what had been foreshadowed in the past and that realised in Christ Himself.  His intention in this verse is BASED upon it, and "therefore" ('oun', in still wider scope), it FOLLOWS: "The Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact of what presently is being foreshadowed"— 'ha estin' presently since and because of the fact Christ had had come; "The Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact" of the CHURCH: "The BODY of Christ's Own ..... growing with the growth of God" (verse 19)—  'the Fact of' the Church, in Paul's own day having been in the process of becoming and being realised "the Body of Christ's Own". This 'whole process' was busy being realised by "The Body's", "Sabbaths'-feasting", by its / their "eating and drinking" of Christ spiritually. Paul "comforts" the Church  (2:2) "with regard to" THIS, telling them, "Do not you let yourselves be judged by anyone!"
Therefore words translations importune ADD about the "shadow", like "they have ONLY a symbolic value" or, "those things are MERE shadows", miss-reckon themselves with "the Reality" the Church, as found in and founded upon Christ, that by its "Sabbath's-Feasting" gloriously and honourably "semblances forth" the glory and honour of Christ "The Head", of "The Body of Christ's Own".

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Pie in the Sky: #61
Child's play?  But you haven't escaped.

Christians who believe the words of Jesus have passed from death to life.  John 5:24.  They have plenty of grace and peace. 

You should try it.  The way you speak to people round here shows you haven't found grace and peace.  Let Jesus find you.  Stop running.

Not for the life of me will I <try> your false gospel and do Jesus Christ dishonour. So help me God

[piecrust]

Not for the life of me will I <try> your false gospel and do Jesus Christ dishonour. So help me God

He is the only One who can.

[beam]

It is funny that the SDAs and some other groups believe that keeping a day is required to gain eternal life.  It isn't really funny at all, it is serious.  People who teach such a thing are teaching heresy.  The command to observe days are found only in the Sinai covenant and that covenant was not concerning salvation.   God specifically told Moses that the covenant was about: 6 you[/size] will be for me a kingdom of priests[/size] and a holy nation.'[/size] These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." Ex19  The commands for the keeping of days in the Sinai covenant were ritual commands.  and, of course, had nothing to do with salvation.   Just how do you suppose the Sabbath command of the Sinai covenant morphed into being a salvational issue so that the supposed prophet of the SDAs would write the following: [/size]It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy[/size][/color] unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Beam: #68
It is funny that the SDAs and some other groups believe that keeping a day is required to gain eternal life. 

It's not funny. It's not even funny you think it's funny. But I tell you that there is not a single SDA or group who believes that keeping a day is required to gain eternal life. You are absolutely ... no don't let me say that word again.