The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?

[howard]

Note what the scripture says, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Who was in the bush? The angel of the Lord.

Keep that in mind.

Let's continue.

And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, "Here am I.

[howard]

Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. (Exodus 3:6-8)


Who is doing the talking?

Is it the Lord or is the angel?

Let's go into Exodus the 23rd chapter, begin at the 20th verse, and let's see who's doing the talking.

[howard]

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. (Exodus 23:20-23)
Is the Lord doing the talking?

Note what's being said, "I send an Angel before thee." Remember in Exodus chapter 3 the scripture stated, "He has come down to deliver His people." Who came down?

The angel of the Lord came down, not the Lord Himself.

Notice what else the verse says, "Beware of him, and obey his voice, he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." Only God can pardon transgressions, not an angel. Note this, "But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak."

Plain and simple sisters and brothers, this particular angel brings the message to men and he will speak only what the Lord tells him to speak. Now, let's go to the book of Isaiah chapter 63 and see this a little clearer.

Note who was sent and also what he is called.

[fish153]

Non-traditional Theology debates can only be called one thing:  Nonsensical.

You have had scripture clearly showing a trinity in the Bible put right before you, yet you will state there is no trinity because that word does not appear in the Bible?  The word "trinity" itself does not need to be in the Bible for us to believe or not believe there is a trinity.  It is revealed by God Himself.  There are those who also deny the divinity of Jesus.  Jesus never clearly stated "Hello everyone, I am God"---but it is clear that Jesus was God incarnate.  Your reasoning is non-traditional, and along with that, nonsensical.

[Lively Stone]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

[Lively Stone]

Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God

1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

This spirit be it evil come from God

1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

A spirit from God

We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit

From God

God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike?  Thanks!

It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

Guess who that evil is ?

Satan and te evil angels

God created them

The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.

[Lively Stone]

Satan is that evil spirit from God

Satan job is to look for those who want to sin

1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Satan is a angel or spirit
He is a ministering spirit that does evil

Sent from God

Is he the spirit of truth?

He is a spirit. He is sent from God, he brings truth

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan can bring truth/light

Well you can believe that, but you would be considered an enemy of God for it.

[Lively Stone]

Note what the scripture says, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Who was in the bush? The angel of the Lord.

Keep that in mind.

Let's continue.

And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, "Here am I.

[howard]

Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God

1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

This spirit be it evil come from God

1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

A spirit from God

We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit

From God

God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike?   Thanks!

It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

Guess who that evil is ?

Satan and te evil angels

God created them

Yes, in that sense they are "from" God...and I am not denying He is the creator...but you seem to be twisting scripture to say "from" God as in, cooperation with Him.  God allowed Satan to persecute Job, but HE Himself was not in the persecution.

The Holy Spirit is NOT an evil one.  The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Comforter.

Satan obeys God
God controls everything and commands everything even Satan
Satan was in the persecution of Job

Who is th dialogue between

Job 1:6-10 (KJV)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord , and Satan came also among them. [7] And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [8] And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? [9] Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? [10] Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Look what the Lord  told Satan what  not to do to Job.


Job 1:11-12 (KJV)
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. [12] And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord .

Satan had his hand in trying to break Job

The evil angels as is the holy angels obey the Lord

[MeMyself]

Satan obeys God

Oh please!  Obedience in the most forced coerced sense of the word!  Before the Holy God he is a wet noodle.  Satan hasn't the power of God..he has no choice and is bound when God gives him boundaries. IF he could, he wouldn't obey at all!

[howard]

Non-traditional Theology debates can only be called one thing:  Nonsensical.

You have had scripture clearly showing a trinity in the Bible put right before you, yet you will state there is no trinity because that word does not appear in the Bible?  The word "trinity" itself does not need to be in the Bible for us to believe or not believe there is a trinity.  It is revealed by God Himself.  There are those who also deny the divinity of Jesus.  Jesus never clearly stated "Hello everyone, I am God"---but it is clear that Jesus was God incarnate.  Your reasoning is non-traditional, and along with that, nonsensical.

evangelical is not in the Bible? do you apply the same non-traditional  nonsensical doctrine?

[howard]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don’t take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, “Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

Acts 7:52-54

King James Version (KJV)


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel

[howard]

Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God

1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

This spirit be it evil come from God

1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

A spirit from God

We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit

From God

God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike?   Thanks!

It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

Guess who that evil is ?

Satan and te evil angels

God created them

Yes, in that sense they are "from" God...and I am not denying He is the creator...but you seem to be twisting scripture to say "from" God as in, cooperation with Him.  God allowed Satan to persecute Job, but HE Himself was not in the persecution.

The Holy Spirit is NOT an evil one.  The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Comforter.

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

[howard]

Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God

1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

This spirit be it evil come from God

1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

A spirit from God

We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit

From God

God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike?  Thanks!

It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

Guess who that evil is ?

Satan and te evil angels

God created them

The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.

it still sin whatever context you read it in.

without sin there is no such thing as calamity or disaters

[howard]

somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word



what happen to God the holy Ghost?

[Lively Stone]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

Acts 7:52-54

King James Version (KJV)


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel

So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.

[howard]

here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God


Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)

where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?



 

[Lively Stone]

somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word



what happen to God the holy Ghost?

No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.

[howard]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

Acts 7:52-54

King James Version (KJV)


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel

So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.

then where does the holy spirit come in at?

where is God the holy spirit?

[Lively Stone]

here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God


Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)

where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?



 

LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.

[Lively Stone]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

Acts 7:52-54

King James Version (KJV)


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel

So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.

then where does the holy spirit come in at?

where is God the holy spirit?

Holy Spirit came to earth to stay and do the works of Christ at Pentecost.

[howard]

somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word



what happen to God the holy Ghost?

No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.

yes I beleive in Jesus
Yes I beleive in the Father
yes I beleive in the Holy Spirit

the Holy spirit is not God

there is no proof of the HS being God

 all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.

[howard]

It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.

The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this

It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who is th Christ of the bible?

Jesus

Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.

Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?

Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.

1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.

Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don’t take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them.  Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, “Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?

Acts 7:52-54

King James Version (KJV)


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel

So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.

then where does the holy spirit come in at?

where is God the holy spirit?

Holy Spirit came to earth to stay and do the works of Christ at Pentecost.

God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit?

the Holy Spirit did but he is not God.

[Lively Stone]

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

[Lively Stone]

Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God

1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

This spirit be it evil come from God

1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

A spirit from God

We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit

From God

God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike?   Thanks!

It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

Guess who that evil is ?

Satan and te evil angels

God created them

The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.

it still sin whatever context you read it in.

without sin there is no such thing as calamity or disaters

No it isn't. God's judgments are righteous.

[Lively Stone]

somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word



what happen to God the holy Ghost?

No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.

yes I believe in Jesus
Yes I believe in the Father
yes I believe in the Holy Spirit

the Holy spirit is not God

there is no proof of the HS being God

 all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.

Then who is Holy Spirit in relation to God the Father? In relation to Jesus the Son?

[howard]

here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God


Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)

where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?



 

LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.

revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?

[Lively Stone]

here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God


Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)

where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?



 

LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.

revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?

No, Jesus sent an angel alright, but the Spirit of God is who was at work in John to receive the massive revelation.

[howard]

somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word



what happen to God the holy Ghost?

No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.

yes I believe in Jesus
Yes I believe in the Father
yes I believe in the Holy Spirit

the Holy spirit is not God

there is no proof of the HS being God

 all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.

Then who is Holy Spirit in relation to God the Father? In relation to Jesus the Son?

exactly what Jesus said he was to them both

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

the Father sends the HS in Jesus name, his job is to teach us all things and bring things to our remembrance whatever Jesus has said

[Lively Stone]

Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

[howard]

here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God


Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)

where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?



 

LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.

revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?

No, Jesus sent an angel alright, but the Spirit of God is who was at work in John to receive the massive revelation.

put the verse

lets read where the angel is bringing the message(truth)

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

lets read where the angel went and what else they are called


Revelation 2:

2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks
7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;


8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

the angel is the spirit that went to the churches and gave them God's word

[howard]

Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit.


Romans 8:9
But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)

Jesus is God

where do it say that the Holy Spirit is God?

all you proven with these verses is Jesus is God we both agree in this, we all agree on this.

[howard]

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Proverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

[Lively Stone]

John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.

I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

[Lively Stone]

Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.