Fig leaves

[Carey]

To be clear I am not talking about pornography, which to me are images designed to arouse.

Rather nudity in general.  Cultures that are carefree about their bodies, ie. cultures where bare breasts are as common as a bare shoulder, a bare ankle; art that doesn't arouse me yet I can appreciate it for its beauty, ie.  the Venus de Milo, David.

As a Christian should one condemn all nudity?  As a young man I was more sensitive to such, but maturing, Christianity, and being a husband and Father, has had a profound desensitizing effect.  What would have inevitably led to lustful thoughts before, not so much now, and thus the sinful element has waned.   

It seems to me there is a full spectrum of opinion on nudity and Christianity. 

I have seen it suggested that even husband and wife should be modest with one another, after all Adam and Eve wore fig leaves when they were alone in the garden.  I take this more to them hiding there delicate bits from God, not one another.

It has been suggested that a man should only see his wife naked, and vice versa.

It has been suggested that all nudity is bad,  "If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?"  I am unsure how this works as nudity was fine when they were sinless, only after the fall did it seem to matter.  God did provide Adam and Eve clothing, but was this just for protection against the new elements they would face, or was He too concerned with their nakedness.

This takes us to the other end of the spectrum, actual "Christian" nudist camps, not my kind of party yuck.

We could get hung up on this to the extent of some Muslim factions requiring full covering to even the eyes, or we could go all the other way to full nudity being acceptable.  I know here in Canada, if a woman wishes to go topless, there is nothing stopping her, same with thongs.  This is pushing the limit IMO.

Personally, I can be led to sinful thought just as easily by a pair of beautiful eyes as a naked body, but I resist such temptation, and the Holy Spirit gives me strength.

Just a few thoughts.  I start with Adam and Eve but there is more scripture applicable, this is a work in progress.

Nudity can be sinful or rather be an agency to sin, but not always, where does one draw the line? 

Sincerely.
Carey.

[DaveW]

I find the question wrong minded.

Anytime someone asks "Is X ALWAYS sinful," or "Is Y ALWAYS ok," it shows a mechanistic view of scripture rather than a relational one.


ETA:

That goes for anything that does not have a crystal clear "Thou Shalt NOT ..." or  "Thou Shalt ..." 
In those cases, you follow it mechanisticly.

[Carey]

Thank you Dave,

Excellent point, any suggestions on how to amend to open beneficial discussion on the matter, I will attempt to restate as per your suggestion.

Carey.

[Bitter Sweet]

I think it's the intent of the person viewing it and also the intention of the nudity itself. Even just judging I think can be sinful without any lust in the eyes. Sinning with nudity doesn't only involve lust.

[chosenone]

Nudity as in a small child playing naked on a beach, is the opposite extreme from women or men who deliberately dress in such a way to attract attention of a sexual nature. Porn too is done to arouse men/women sexually. That's what it is for. That's why men and women look at it. The Bible seems really clear on nudity and what happened when some saw others naked. Paul is also clear on modesty, as in dressing and acting in a modest way. Also about men not allowing themselves to look at women who are dressed provocatively or who are naked. Flee from lust he says. I cant see anything on the Bible that would allow us to think that its OK for either, us to show our nudity,(except to our spouses), or for us to look at someone else naked body. We are looking at someone elses husband or wife or future husband or wife.

[Carey]

Thank you for your responses,

I want to assure that I am not try to push boundaries (I am a tad anxious in breaching this subject) I am just trying to learn and grasp opinion from other Christians.  I can say, since my rebirth I have taken a much more conservative view on this subject; what I once thought fine, is now taboo, and this is far from a complete transition.

There are cultural norms to be taken into account, what is sin in one set of people need not be sin in another.  If we do what we believe sinful, it is sinful even if the action itself is not.  Some Christian sects do dress significantly more conservatively than those in my church for example.  Although those in my church are not sinning, if one from the other group dressed the same way they could be?

I am going to spend some time studying scripture on this subject, but will be gone for the weekend, wife and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary. 

God bless,
Carey.

[Bitter Sweet]

John 20:23 If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

[chosenone]

Thank you for your responses,

I want to assure that I am not try to push boundaries (I am a tad anxious in breaching this subject) I am just trying to learn and grasp opinion from other Christians.  I can say, since my rebirth I have taken a much more conservative view on this subject; what I once thought fine, is now taboo, and this is far from a complete transition.

There are cultural norms to be taken into account, what is sin in one set of people need not be sin in another.  If we do what we believe sinful, it is sinful even if the action itself is not.  Some Christian sects do dress significantly more conservatively than those in my church for example.  Although those in my church are not sinning, if one from the other group dressed the same way they could be?

I am going to spend some time studying scripture on this subject, but will be gone for the weekend, wife and I are celebrating our 20Th anniversary. 

God bless,
Carey.

Yay well done you guys have a great time.

Just my reply.Yes there are some cultural norms, but the world generally pushes the boundaries to breaking point. The world sees nothing wrong with nudity in film, in magazines, in adverts. Sex sells and there are mega bucks in porn and sex related things. The world says "whats wrong with men looking at porn, its what all men do" or "look at porn together and it will spice up your sex life"The world says "there is nothing wrong with staring at women who are not dressed modesty".

God ways however are totally the opposite. He values high morals, integrity, complete faithfullness with our spouse(yes even with our eyes), dressing modestly, keeping our minds pure and being disciplined in what we see or do. We are going against the flow and that has become clearer and clearer in recent years as standards have dropped more and more.

[Carey]

Sex is used to sell, it is a big part of the marketing courses I have taken, many years ago; I would imagine those courses even worse today.  Even in the subtlest of ways it is used as a way to get at us subliminally.  It is nearly impossible to avoid such imagery today, but one can be shielded from its effect through sheer will, not always, but success is possible, indeed sometimes it involves averting one's eyes, a short prayer doesn't hurt either.

I find that if one can avoid lustful thoughts for extended periods it makes intimate moments with one's spouse far more rewarding, love more profound.  It is as if there is a finite pool of emotion, and to look at another with sinful desire is to deplete that which belongs to his/her spouse.  

Jesus was right lustful thought in itself is adultery.

[WILDJC]

Thank you for your responses,

I want to assure that I am not try to push boundaries (I am a tad anxious in breaching this subject) I am just trying to learn and grasp opinion from other Christians.  I can say, since my rebirth I have taken a much more conservative view on this subject; what I once thought fine, is now taboo, and this is far from a complete transition.

There are cultural norms to be taken into account, what is sin in one set of people need not be sin in another.  If we do what we believe sinful, it is sinful even if the action itself is not.  Some Christian sects do dress significantly more conservatively than those in my church for example.  Although those in my church are not sinning, if one from the other group dressed the same way they could be?

I am going to spend some time studying scripture on this subject, but will be gone for the weekend, wife and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary. 

God bless,
Carey.

Praise God in all His Glory.

Carey - Interesting topic you post. As an artist, especially when I was a student attending art school, I would sketch the nude in studio classes. I never felt uncomfortable nor lustful while doing this. I was also married at the time. My goal was to harness a talent in fine art, and drawing the nude to me was glorifying God's creation. Pure beauty in form and function, regardless if the model was 23 or 73 years old. I still believe it today.

I know Michelangelo's fresco's were later painted over with loin clothes because the nudity was found offensive after the Renaissance. Some people are uncomfortable with nudity, others are not. I do not believe it is a sin when viewed in it's purest form, without lust, without shame. It is wonderfully beautiful.

Yours in Christ.


John

[chosenone]

Sex is used to sell, it is a big part of the marketing courses I have taken, many years ago; I would imagine those courses even worse today.  Even in the subtlest of ways it is used as a way to get at us subliminally.  It is nearly impossible to avoid such imagery today, but one can be shielded from its effect through sheer will, not always, but success is possible, indeed sometimes it involves averting one's eyes, a short prayer doesn't hurt either.

I find that if one can avoid lustful thoughts for extended periods it makes intimate moments with one's spouse far more rewarding, love more profound.  It is as if there is a finite pool of emotion, and to look at another with sinful desire is to deplete that which belongs to his/her spouse.  

Jesus was right lustful thought in itself is adultery.

Yes that's very profound Carey. I read a book a while back when a man said the same, that the less he looked at other women, the more he noticed his wife and wanted her and her alone. The Bible does say that God rewards fidelity and maybe that is part of it.
I am blessed with a man who does all he can to avoid looking at other women like this. He will close his eyes when the adverts come on, he wont watch films with any sex in them, and of course porn is out. He has always done this since a very young man, and it has become a very good habit. As he says, you cant help noticing something, but you can help staring at it. As a women it makes me feel loved and valued and safe, and I love him for it. As you say Carey, it has got harder and harder in recent years not to notice these things (for women too) and so much that used to be off limits has become the norm, but that's where we need to be different and not allow ourselves to go with the flow of "anything goes" Not easy to swim against the tide is it.

   

[MeMyself]

Sex is used to sell, it is a big part of the marketing courses I have taken, many years ago; I would imagine those courses even worse today.  Even in the subtlest of ways it is used as a way to get at us subliminally.  It is nearly impossible to avoid such imagery today, but one can be shielded from its effect through sheer will, not always, but success is possible, indeed sometimes it involves averting one's eyes, a short prayer doesn't hurt either.

I find that if one can avoid lustful thoughts for extended periods it makes intimate moments with one's spouse far more rewarding, love more profound.  It is as if there is a finite pool of emotion, and to look at another with sinful desire is to deplete that which belongs to his/her spouse.  

Jesus was right lustful thought in itself is adultery.

[MeMyself]

I am blessed with a man who does all he can to avoid looking at other women like this. He will close his eyes when the adverts come on, he wont watch films with any sex in them, and of course porn is out. He has always done this since a very young man, and it has become a very good habit. As he says, you cant help noticing something, but you can help staring at it. As a women it makes me feel loved and valued and safe, and I love him for it.

Blessed indeed, Chosen! 

[Carey]

Thank you for your responses,

I want to assure that I am not try to push boundaries (I am a tad anxious in breaching this subject) I am just trying to learn and grasp opinion from other Christians.  I can say, since my rebirth I have taken a much more conservative view on this subject; what I once thought fine, is now taboo, and this is far from a complete transition.

There are cultural norms to be taken into account, what is sin in one set of people need not be sin in another.  If we do what we believe sinful, it is sinful even if the action itself is not.  Some Christian sects do dress significantly more conservatively than those in my church for example.  Although those in my church are not sinning, if one from the other group dressed the same way they could be?

I am going to spend some time studying scripture on this subject, but will be gone for the weekend, wife and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary. 

God bless,
Carey.

Praise God in all His Glory.

Carey - Interesting topic you post. As an artist, especially when I was a student attending art school, I would sketch the nude in studio classes. I never felt uncomfortable nor lustful while doing this. I was also married at the time. My goal was to harness a talent in fine art, and drawing the nude to me was glorifying God's creation. Pure beauty in form and function, regardless if the model was 23 or 73 years old. I still believe it today.

I know Michelangelo's fresco's were later painted over with loin clothes because the nudity was found offensive after the Renaissance. Some people are uncomfortable with nudity, others are not. I do not believe it is a sin when viewed in it's purest form, without lust, without shame. It is wonderfully beautiful.

Yours in Christ.


John

Thanks for posting John,

Your experience I do not consider unique, and seeing models, sketching, painting, and viewing art as such can indeed be a sinless activity.  I am not quite where you are, so some of what is safe for you, I might avoid.

Carey.

[WILDJC]

Sex is used to sell, it is a big part of the marketing courses I have taken, many years ago; I would imagine those courses even worse today.  Even in the subtlest of ways it is used as a way to get at us subliminally.  It is nearly impossible to avoid such imagery today, but one can be shielded from its effect through sheer will, not always, but success is possible, indeed sometimes it involves averting one's eyes, a short prayer doesn't hurt either.

I find that if one can avoid lustful thoughts for extended periods it makes intimate moments with one's spouse far more rewarding, love more profound.  It is as if there is a finite pool of emotion, and to look at another with sinful desire is to deplete that which belongs to his/her spouse.  

Jesus was right lustful thought in itself is adultery.

Yes that's very profound Carey. I read a book a while back when a man said the same, that the less he looked at other women, the more he noticed his wife and wanted her and her alone. The Bible does say that God rewards fidelity and maybe that is part of it.
I am blessed with a man who does all he can to avoid looking at other women like this. He will close his eyes when the adverts come on, he wont watch films with any sex in them, and of course porn is out. He has always done this since a very young man, and it has become a very good habit. As he says, you cant help noticing something, but you can help staring at it. As a women it makes me feel loved and valued and safe, and I love him for it. As you say Carey, it has got harder and harder in recent years not to notice these things (for women too) and so much that used to be off limits has become the norm, but that's where we need to be different and not allow ourselves to go with the flow of "anything goes" Not easy to swim against the tide is it.

   

Choseone,

Very well said. Not an easy swim against the tide, indeed, but we will never sink. Amen.

John

[chosenone]

Thank you for your responses,

I want to assure that I am not try to push boundaries (I am a tad anxious in breaching this subject) I am just trying to learn and grasp opinion from other Christians.  I can say, since my rebirth I have taken a much more conservative view on this subject; what I once thought fine, is now taboo, and this is far from a complete transition.

There are cultural norms to be taken into account, what is sin in one set of people need not be sin in another.  If we do what we believe sinful, it is sinful even if the action itself is not.  Some Christian sects do dress significantly more conservatively than those in my church for example.  Although those in my church are not sinning, if one from the other group dressed the same way they could be?

I am going to spend some time studying scripture on this subject, but will be gone for the weekend, wife and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary. 

God bless,
Carey.

Praise God in all His Glory.

Carey - Interesting topic you post. As an artist, especially when I was a student attending art school, I would sketch the nude in studio classes. I never felt uncomfortable nor lustful while doing this. I was also married at the time. My goal was to harness a talent in fine art, and drawing the nude to me was glorifying God's creation. Pure beauty in form and function, regardless if the model was 23 or 73 years old. I still believe it today.

I know Michelangelo's fresco's were later painted over with loin clothes because the nudity was found offensive after the Renaissance. Some people are uncomfortable with nudity, others are not. I do not believe it is a sin when viewed in it's purest form, without lust, without shame. It is wonderfully beautiful.

Yours in Christ.


John

Thanks for posting John,

Your experience I do not consider unique, and seeing models, sketching, painting, and viewing art as such can indeed be a sinless activity.  I am not quite where you are, so some of what is safe for you, I might avoid.

Carey.

I suppose the way that I would see that it this. I am not uncomfortable with male nudity. After all, I have been married for many years, have 2 brothers and have bought up a son(as well as 2 daughters). I can also say that if I were to draw/paint a nude male model, it would do nothing for me in that sexual way. Howewer I would have to ask myself, should I be looking at a nude man, a man who is probably someone elses husband, (or will be?) The only man that I feel I should be looking at in that way, is my husband. Is that model dressing modestly? Well no, but they probably arent Christians so they dont know better.
Just cant get my head round that being ok, but we are all different. So for me it isnt all about what effect doing something will have on me, but of whether seeing that person, or film or photo is something that I should be doing at all. Do you get what I am saying? My daughter went to painting clases and their model had some clothes on. I am not sure why they have to be nude myself but hey.

I remember that Noahs son walked in backwards to cover up his fathers nakedness so that he wouldnt see him that way after he got drunk. I wonder what that means.

[Willie T]

An interesting point to consider is that it was the shame felt that caused fear, not simply being naked.  (Gen. 2:25 and then 3:7, I think)
I feel no shame when seeing my wife nude.  But I AM aware she isn't dressed... and so is all of me thus aware.  If that weren't so - and designed to be so by God - there would never be any little Willies running around.
So, don't get feeling, "Oh, I saw a nude person... I'm going to burn."  Just stop looking if you know you shouldn't be doing it.

[Bitter Sweet]

When my husband see's me nude he doesn't usually react in a lustful manner when I am changing clothes or about to shower. This tells me that being naked isn't always a lustful thing between husband and wife. If I confine my husband to only be aroused when he see's me nude, that would be carnal on his part and mine for expecting it to be that way.

In fact I'm not even nude when he get's aroused, usually i'm just sitting next to him minding my own business and suddenly he'll say let's go in the secret hiding place.

[chosenone]

Its normal and good if a husband does get aroused by his wife's body. That's the way it is supposed to be. Its when a man looks at other women that the problems start.


Let your fountain of human life be blessed with the rewards of fidelity
Let her bosom satisfy you at all times, and always be transported with delight in her love.
prov 5v17 

We can be unfaithful with our eyes and minds, as well as our bodies. In fact unfaithfulness starts in the mind.

[Bitter Sweet]

I just made an inappropriate sexual comment to my husband and he turned to me and said "I don't know why all you women think that all men care about is sex. I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

[MeMyself]

I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont' get it?

[Bitter Sweet]

I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont' get it?

He thinks he's special in a sarcastic way because of a stigmata thing that has been happening to him. I posted about it in the Catholic forum. But he is one of the least carnal men I have ever known so in a way, he really isn't like natural man is with their pleasures. We both aren't so we are more accepting of some things because they have no effect on us. Does that make sense?

[MeMyself]

I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont' get it?

He thinks he's special in a sarcastic way because of a stigmata thing that has been happening to him. I posted about it in the Catholic forum. But he is one of the least carnal men I have ever known so in a way, he really isn't like natural man is with their pleasures. We both aren't so we are more accepting of some things because they have no effect on us. Does that make sense?

ah, gotcha!  That makes more sense now.  Thanks...

Though..just for the record...don't go much for that stigmata schtuff...

[chosenone]

I just made an inappropriate sexual comment to my husband and he turned to me and said "I don't know why all you women think that all men care about is sex. I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont think that all women do think that do they? I certainly dont.

[chosenone]

I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont' get it?

He thinks he's special in a sarcastic way because of a stigmata thing that has been happening to him. I posted about it in the Catholic forum. But he is one of the least carnal men I have ever known so in a way, he really isn't like natural man is with their pleasures. We both aren't so we are more accepting of some things because they have no effect on us. Does that make sense?

  People were made by God to be sexual beings and to have and enjoy sex with their spouses. Its not carnal its Godly. Maybe read the song of songs. Its all about sex in marriage. What IS carnal  is looking at magazines with naked women in them. Taking pleasure in your wife is good and godly. Taking pleasure in looking at other women is not.

As for the stigmata, Bittersweet you have REAL problems there. You have a non Christian guy who is getting stigmata which is not only entirely unBiblical, but also almost certainly demonic. You guys REALLY need to get to a good church and ask about prayer and ministry for deliverance asap. You appear to have so much that needs dealing with.

[Lively Stone]

What your husband has been experiencing, BS, is not stigmata (which is demonic also) but demons will attack people with lashes, bites, burns, bruises and scratches.

The only way to be free from something like that is to receive Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord and receive His deliverance from the enemy.

[Bitter Sweet]

I'm the Chosen One and I don't share the same earthly pleasures as humans."

I dont' get it?

He thinks he's special in a sarcastic way because of a stigmata thing that has been happening to him. I posted about it in the Catholic forum. But he is one of the least carnal men I have ever known so in a way, he really isn't like natural man is with their pleasures. We both aren't so we are more accepting of some things because they have no effect on us. Does that make sense?

ah, gotcha!  That makes more sense now.  Thanks...

Though..just for the record...don't go much for that stigmata schtuff...

Neither do I, that's why I was asking the Catholics about it. I think there has only been about 300 of these happenings documented since the 1100's, Francis Assi was the first to experience it, besides Jesus and Paul in the bible with their wounds. We sent the pictures to a friends brother that happens to be a doctor to see what he has to say about it.

[fassopony]

I think this has turned into a really good discussion, especially good thoughts from all :)

However, Carey, next you take one of my quotes, please do use it in context of the actual discussion.  In this case, you purposely mislead folks to think that my statement was saying that all nudity is bad.  I did not.  The entire discussion can be found under the Singles folder titled "Oh Yuck!".  This is my post--

"Well then, there's always this

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?  Oh yes, then they went one better and hid from God.  *eyeroll*

Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!"

I wrote this when I felt that certain posters, Carey included, were trying to push the lines of what God expects of us.  Asking leading questions such as this quote from Carey--

"With regards to A&E, it is interesting that God gave them clothing also.  Given they were alone does this mean we must hide or nudity from our spouses?  Hiding such from God seems kind of silly."

The point, which is very clear in the context of the actual discussion is that while nudity in itself is not evil, God is not okay with men who peruse naked pics stating that they don't feel lust or women who run around half clothed in order to draw attention from men.  In no way did I state that all nudity is evil, and certainly not between married couples.

I love that all can discuss this so well but I do not like that my words were purposefully taken out of context to try and skew debate for whatever purpose.  As a Christian, honesty is a valuable trait and it is important to be honest when presenting things, especially anothers words.

Sheesh!  I only clicked on this accidentally, singles usually don't hang out in the married sex section.  I wonder why it was put here.

[MeMyself]

Fassopony, I can't speak for Carey, but I will say I don't think he meant anything by using your quote...just that what you said got him to thinkin and wonderin...

[fassopony]

One would hope so although the second post is Dave stating that it was a wrong minded question (and, quite honestly, the way Carey presented it IS wrong minded!) and then Carey agreed and asked for suggestions as to amend it.

It's just very odd.  Again, I think the discussion is great but I am not sure why my quote was blatantly taken out of context to start it, KWIM?

Whatever floats peoples boats I suppose, good to know LOL!!

[chosenone]

fassopony
you said
"The point, which is very clear in the context of the actual discussion is that while nudity in itself is not evil, God is not okay with men who peruse naked pics stating that they don't feel lust or women who run around half clothed in order to draw attention from men.  In no way did I state that all nudity is evil, and certainly not between married couples."

I agree totally with this. Its the context of the nudity. A man and his wife are supposed to enjoy each others body, and its hard to do that if they have all their chothes on. lol, but that is a special covenant relationship that should never be shared with other people, whether that be in person, or through magazines, or through a porn movie. We can be unfaithful with our eyes, and thats what happens when we look at porn of any kind. We can also control our eyes and what we allow ourselves to see.
After all, why would anyone look at pictures of naked men/women unless they liked to do so and it gave them some sort of 'pleasure?' If it didnt they wouldnt bother.
A member of my family used to look at porn mags(was just mags back then) and I found them accidently when I was about 11. Even at that young age I just knew it was wrong , and I wasnt a believer then. You just 'know'.

[fassopony]

Agreed!  This is such a good discussion!

I was just cranky I stumbled onto my words being used out of context.  BUT!  The result is good.

[Carey]

To Fasso, (unless I have found my way on to her ignore list)

You can continue to see a hidden agenda if you wish, but I am not pushing boundaries, and I am not trying to harm you.  I like you and respect your opinions.   I was not trying to hide this from you, just thought this a good place to address some questions and express some thoughts on the topic.

I tried to address your quote and open this discussion on your thread (perhaps presented poorly, but sincere nonetheless) and was accused of wrongdoing, even having my actions compared to those of the enemy.   Thought I'd open something up here to address my musings.

I could have attributed the words to you, and the thread in which they came from, but here is the funny part    I thought it better for you, to just leave it anonymous.  Failed again huh?    My humility is constantly ensured,  I screwed up again.

FWIW I thought that those that recognized your words would have the context, those that did not....the relevance of the quote serves the purposes of the discussion at hand, IMO really there was no need to involve you.

Anyway, see in me whatever you wish, I am saddened because I thought you and I got off to a pretty good start.

I am sorry.

God knows my mind, therein is my solace.

Kindest regards always,
Carey.

[Carey]

In the interest of giving context, here is the quote:

Well then, there's always this

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If indeed nudity is just fine then why, after sinning and becoming acquainted with evil, did A&E decide on a wardrobe to cover themselves?  Oh yes, then they went one better and hid from God.  *eyeroll*

Y'all can argue but any guy that needs or wants or just "peruses" porn can have that, I certainly don't want them.  And, my decision is final on that ;)  Just say no to hos!

And her is the thread: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/christian-singles-forum/oh-yuck!/

[fenton]

ok... i need to know sum thin... wood fig leaves be good n a salad