Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?

[Bitter Sweet]

John 4:23 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth[/b], for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit? There are 2 requirements mentioned in this verse, spirit and truth, God is spirit and as worshipers we must be in Spirit and Truth.

[raggthyme76]

Hi Bitter Sweet,

You asked:

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit?

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Here's my two cents on the verse you quoted:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His laws on the heart and in the mind. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)




Hope this makes some sense. 

[Willie T]

Hi Bitter Sweet,

Here's my two cents:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His law on the heart. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)

Wow!  Nailed it, Raggy.

[Beta]

Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man

[chosenone]

If we are believers we have the Holy Spirit in us,and we worship God through Jesus with the Spirit.

[Bitter Sweet]

Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man

I agree, I am really glad I asked this question, opened up a can of love!

TY Raggthyme!

[howard]

John 4:23 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth[/b], for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit? There are 2 requirements mentioned in this verse, spirit and truth, God is spirit and as worshipers we must be in Spirit and Truth.

both have to do with Jesus words that he has spoken to us

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Jesus words are spirit and Holy


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus who is God and who is a Spirit got the words from The Father who is God and who is a Spirit

Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we know God is a spirit and God the Father is the Father of Spirits

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

man is not a spirit, we are flesh, we have to worship the Lord by using this form of the spirit and that is his word

How?

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

the word is also called spirit

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus sheep hear his words(voice) if we hear Jesus voice we then hear the Father

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

what comes from the Lord's voice(words)

I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

[howard]

Hi Bitter Sweet,

You asked:

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit?

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Here's my two cents on the verse you quoted:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His laws on the heart and in the mind. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)




Hope this makes some sense. 

Amen Sister

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Not one person!!! Not One!!!

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Jesus testimony is the SPIRIT of prophecy.

I guarantee you that certain people don't have a clue what this is

some even dare to think that the Holy Spirit started in the OT not understanding that the NT even Paul told us that the circumcised who are the Israelites worshipped God in spirit even in the OT

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

How is this done? by obeying the word which is spirit

[Bitter Sweet]

I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

TY Howard, I was hoping you will be involved in this discussion.

[howard]

Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man

its not hard if we read his spirit(word)

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God's word tells us what to do and how to live

1 Corinthians 14:25
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.


God truth is is us?

what is truth?

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

God's words is in us

the spirit is truth as Jesus said

1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

Jesus said the spirit is word

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are
Spirit
truth
life
prophecy

[howard]

I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

TY Howard, I was hoping you will be involved in this discussion.

good job

in only shows how God wants us to show the people through his word the many forms and functions of the word spirit in the bible

i was thinking the same thing concerning my next topic

[howard]

Numbers 16:22
And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?


what is the spirits of all flesh?

headed to bible class

Great responses so far,

I can't wait to hear the other sides theory

[howard]

God words are spirit

God spirit dwells in us

the New Covenant dwells in our inward parts

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How?

God put his Word/Spirit in our inward parts, this is how we know the Lord

   what are the inward parts the Lord speak of?

our minds/brain.

[raggthyme76]

opened up a can of love!

haha, I like that! And I fully agree with Beta, it's definitely God's love as defined by the word. It's His love which is written on the heart of the believer in Jesus. Man's idea of love is really self-love, definitely the opposite of agape.

[MeMyself]

I believe we worship in spirit and in truth when we remember worship is doing everything for the glory of God.

[Beta]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

[Bitter Sweet]

Exactly Beta! Everyone forget's it's not all about us, it's all about HIM! There is no I in T.E.A.M!

[raggthyme76]

 Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

[Bitter Sweet]

Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

I love it when we all know what we are thinking and talking about! Not only are we on the same page, we are reading the same book! I was talking about the third person of the trinity, I don't think there is any other spirit worshiped.

[raggthyme76]

Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

I love it when we all know what we are thinking and talking about! Not only are we on the same page, we are reading the same book! I was talking about the third person of the trinity, I don't think there is any other spirit worshiped.

Ok, thanks. That's what I thought you were asking. I like to have people define the terms, helps in the communication process. 

For me, I do not worship a third person of a trinity, as I do not believe God is a trinity. So if I split up your topic question to read:

Do you worship (a) the spirit/third person of the trinity or (b) in the spirit? I would personally say (b) for sure. I believe Jesus was speaking in John 4 about worshipping the Father in the inner man, as opposed to a specific location.

I hope that came across clearly in my original post.

I mean no offense to those who believe otherwise, I think God is more concerned with the heart of the worshipper than with his intellect. Everyone is growing and learning and (hopefully) weeding out what is not biblical doctrine. We're all in different places in our walk.

I like these forums because I think being challenged with Scripture to consider what we believe makes us dig in deeper and with a humble and teachable heart, it's a very good thing. It only becomes unprofitable when pride and stubbornness are involved, when a person is unwilling to examine themselves (and their sincerely-held beliefs) with the word of God.

[Beta]

I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical. 

[Lively Stone]

I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical. 

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

Yes, the trinity is biblical.

[Willie T]

John 16:7; 14:16; 15:26

How are we to account for the "sending" spoken of in these verses?  Can you "send" yourself.... or can the son override the father's authority, and "send" him?

And doesn't one of these verses speak of "sending ANOTHER"?

Just as the Bible says "There is one God"... and yet Jesus says he and the father are one, I see no problem with three parts of one being..... just as Jesus is a second part of that One God.  Yet I do see them as individual in purpose and function.

I see the Holy Spirit much like the influence your impressions and memory and respect for your own earthly father have on your thoughts, concionous, and conscious actions.  He's one person, but that part of him lives inside you.......... certainly with nowhere the power of the Holy Spirit, but similarly.

When one goes off to war, a father (or even a lover) often says "I will be right there beside you".  We know that is not physically possible... but when we are facing those horrid times, and his face or voice breaks in and holds us up... we also KNOW he's there with us.

In case this is more confusing than I intended, "Yes" I do believe in the Trinity.

[MeMyself]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

[Bitter Sweet]

I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical. 

I am right next to you on this!

Who is the spirit in the trinity being worshiped?

[Beta]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

[MeMyself]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta?   Just funnin' ya. 

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

[Beta]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta?   Just funnin' ya. 

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

Still comes down to the same thing....
whatever WE do.....
or what GOD wants done !!!!

We either please ourself or we please God !
And what is Paul's conclusion in 1Cor.11v1 ?

[MeMyself]

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta?   Just funnin' ya. 

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

Still comes down to the same thing....
whatever WE do.....
or what GOD wants done !!!!

We either please ourself or we please God !
And what is Paul's conclusion in 1Cor.11v1 ?

What?  It is pleasing to please the Father!  To imply otherwise is just beyond bizarre to me! 

We feel good about pleasing those we love...and that's not a bad thing! I deny self all.the.time for the people I love and I do it happily for God too.  Sometimes I wish He would be pleased with me judging others, or digging the specks out of their eyes, but I know its best to deny my own desires to do so and work on my own 400 lb plank. Though it is harder some times than others...I'm always so glad I obey Him, deny myself and offer grace..because it glorifies Him.  

God wants us to do everything for.His.glory. period. 

[raggthyme76]

In case this is more confusing than I intended, "Yes" I do believe in the Trinity.

It was a bit over my head, but I did get that much out of it...

[raggthyme76]

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

[Willie T]

Well, since I seem to recall the word "spirit" here is pnuma (wind, more or less), I'd say that's an answer to the woman's question.... We worship anywhere... wherever we are.

[Lively Stone]

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

Check this out, and maybe BS will explain later:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494

[raggthyme76]

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

Check this out, and maybe BS will explain later:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494

ok yes, I can see where it might be a little confusing. I was going off of the comment made to Beta right after that...

I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical. 

I am right next to you on this!

Who is the spirit in the trinity being worshiped?

I could totally be misunderstanding this.. I guess we'll have to let her speak for herself. 

[Bitter Sweet]

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

You are absolutely correct I do not believe in man made doctrines and I especially don't believe in adding anything to the bible!