Does Prayer Change Anything

[marc]

I appreciated this article, though I wish I could see the truth of it more clearly.  Much too often I have felt that my prayers aren't clearing the ceiling.  It's tough to go through long stretches when nothing goes right and you can't see the way out of the mess you're in.  Often giving up  is a temptation.

[Arkstfan]

I know.

It is so hard to try to explain prayer and what it does.

I think we need to look more often at the sheer frustration expressed in Psalms to get a better understanding.

[kondoo]

I tend to agree with you, Marc.  One thing I do know is that communicating with God is good for me even when He answers differently than I have requested.  I've been rereading Job lately & I think it helps me to understand somewhat better and to always look to God whatever the circumstances or outcome of my prayers.  Satan is standing by to tell me that it does no good to pray because God is not listening.  If I stop talking with God, Satan has won & I do not want that.

[janine]

Prayer changes me.

[ConnieLard]

It is impossible for me to understand why God has not answered my prayers in the ways that seemed clearly best for me sometimes.  Why did He allow my first marriage to fall apart, leaving me with two sons to raise without a father?  Why did He allow my second husband to die of cancer?  Why? Why? Why?  I still don't understand many of the things that have happened in my life.  But He is God and I am not.  I do know one thing - if I had my prayers always answered in the way I think best, I wouldn't experience much, if any, growth and neither would all the people I care about.  I have learned that it is futile to ask why.  Tragic things happen to all of mankind.  Why should these things NOT happen to me?!
Anyway, in all of my musing and pondering about prayer, God delivered these thoughts to me in the form of a poem a few years back.  It expresses some of what you guys are saying, I think.

ON PRAYER

I think, with awestruck wonder,
Of how it all began -
God wanted me to know Him,
So He became a Man.

It's quite beyond all reason
That such a thing could be.
I could not go to Him,
So, He came down for me!

He wanted me to know His heart,
To see inside His mind,
To discover truths which on my own
I'd never ever find.

Because He came to me like this
With many things to share,
Now I can also go to Him -
He gave me wings of prayer!

Sometimes I take these wings
And I am feeling strong.
My prayer has words all tumbling out
In rhythm like a song.

At other times I cannot phrase
Just what I need to say.
I can only ask Him in,
That in my heart He'll stay.

I cannot understand it all -
It is too much for me.
I only know I dwell in Him
And that He dwells in me!

Peace in Him, Connie :angel:

[janine]

Post that poem also down where the writers put stuff, will you babe?

[simple minded]

Beautiful thoughts and poem Connie! It has continued to amaze me, how prayer changes things, yet, never the way I would have done it.

His promise's are what I am learning to plead for and put hope in. Like my church which is named Grace. I pray deep within my heart it will grow. I pray with conviction knowing that He say's it will. I have that hope and belief that I can know it is. The thing I don't know. Will the people. But than the most incredibule thing happens. His grace starts working through  me. I become a living, breathing, prayer at work.

[ConnieLard]

Janine, I'm sorry, I just realized that's where the poem should have gone in the first place.  I tried to move it, but can't get it off!  The EDIT button must not work after a certain period of time! :computertrouble:

[simple minded]

Excuse me for butting in. Connie I believe Janine said also. Leave it here but also post it where you can share with more.

[ConnieLard]

Thanks, Simple!  As you noted, I misread what Janine said!

Marc,
In my morning reading today, I thought of you and your speaking of the temptation to give up.  I have often felt that, too, and I must admit that the only reason I haven't given up at times is simply because, where else would I go?  I believe Peter is the one who said (when Jesus asked the apostles if they, too, would leave Him), "Thou hast the words of eternal life!" or something like that.  

Anyway, the following passage spoke to me and I thought I would share it (from THE ROYAL WAY OF THE CROSS, Fenelon):

"We may be sure that we never need to pray so earnestly as when we cannot lay hold of any pleasure in prayer.  That is the season of proving and trial, and consequently, the time for most earnest recourse to God in urgent prayer.  On the other hand, it is well to accept all feeling of devotion very simply, as given to feed, comfort, and strengthen the soul, never counting on such sweetness, for in such feelings the imagination often has its share in flattering us.  Let us follow Jesus to His cross like St. John.  In so doing we shall never be deceived.  It is easy to say to oneself, 'I love God with all my heart,' when conscious of nothing but pleasure in such love.  But true love is that which suffers while loving: 'Though he slay me, yet will I trust him!' (Job 13:15)"

I hope I would be like John and follow Jesus to the cross, but more likely I would be like Peter who made such bold statements then deserted him when the chips were down!  I thank God that He made arrangements to save even someone like me!  And I thank God that when I don't know how to pray, the Spirit intercedes for me with groanings that cannot be expressed.

[Lee Freeman]

The "edit" button won't work after about an hour-you've got that long to edit something.

Pax.

[marc]

Connie, thanks. :)

[coffeesucker]

what's the point of prayer anyway?  :thinking:
if indeed God is omniscient and is not a micro manager of our world - which there is some debate to that - then why pray? have we not always been taught that God knows the desires of our hearts even before we ask? that He is in control and that He already knows what will happen?

why pray if my life is already planned out by God?
-g-

[ConnieLard]

I pray because I need to talk to Somebody and He is so gracious as to have provided a way to do that.  I pray because I want to be closer to Him and prayer brings me closer. I pray because I can see the transforming effects of prayer in the lives of godly men and women.  I pray because Jesus Himself prayed and taught His disciples to pray.  

Yes, I know there is no reason to tell the God of the universe anything, because He already knows everything.  Still, there are many reasons for me as His child to converse with him as my Father.

[memmy]

It's called building a relationship, opening up communication for us all to have a relationship to a Father who will never leave us, always love us and stay by our side for eternity.

God wants a relationship with us all, but He gave us a free will to do as we please, make choices as we feel to do so, He just wants us to be close to Him, as any even earthly Father would want, only out of a want for us, not as a robot maker would have.

If He forced this on us, there would be more of us who would not think we need Him and therefore we would not have a relationship with God as our Father.

If we could make it without any need of Him, just as we do in the secular mode of this life, then we would never feel the want of being close to Him, much like a spoiled child who has never given back, just been a taker and never a giver. Alone in this world is a lonely cold place, and He knows that.

Without a relationship I believe we would never understand the need to help others either, through His giving we receive the ability to know how to give back. If we had it all without our Father, why would we ever need His closeness, which is the only lasting thing that can give us peace in our hearts forever, no one, or nothing else can give that to us at all for eternity. He knows these things, remember we came from Him.

We pray to stay close to our Daddy in a Father child relationship, in other words.
:hug:

Memmy :D

[coffeesucker]

good points Connie and Memmy.
i'm not saying we don't need a relationship with God; that we don't crave a personal connection with our Maker.
what i'm asking is how is that achieved through prayer, taking into account that God is omniscient and that our lives are already planned out?
maybe i'm thinking too hard on this, but the thought only recently occurred to me and i'm disturbed by it.  :moping:
-g-

[memmy]

Maybe God created prayer for us, not Him.

I believe that prayer is like the line of communication that is left open direct to Him, our Maker. We have a direct line when we need it.

I remember when my catholic friend said she hated to go into "confession" with her priest and didn't think it was necessary. I said, "Well the way I was brought up, we always had a direct line to reach God, no operator (priest) needed." She thought that was funny, but she did agree that she believed so too. (We all do. "Ask and you shall recieve")

Our pastor this morning said something that struck a chord with me and maybe this will help you CS.......

"Giving thanks, (and going to God in prayer) increases our level of trust."

I thought that was a good way of looking at this point.

Maybe prayer is just as much for us to stay close to Him, not only just for Him to stay close to us.

What a blessing we should look at this as, huh?

:pray:

Memmy :clap:

[kondoo]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (coffeesucker @ May 09 2004,04:56)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]what's the point of prayer anyway?  :thinking:
if indeed God is omniscient and is not a micro manager of our world - which there is some debate to that - then why pray? have we not always been taught that God knows the desires of our hearts even before we ask? that He is in control and that He already knows what will happen?

why pray if my life is already planned out by God?
-g-[/quote]
God is omniscient, omnipresent, in control, all powerful and much more.  However, we are none of these.  We can come to know about God from the study of His word but we will not come to know Him unless we talk with Him.

Knowing about Christ as He lived on earth as a man shows us the Father's will.  However, Christ's way of like and His commands are just rules and regulations until we come to know Him.  How can we know Him if we don't talk with Him?

Seems to me that the Bible tells us of times that God changed what we thought the apparent outcome was to be because of prayer.  Could it be, that the prayer changed because of his communication with God?

Thanks for bring this up again and giving me the opportunity to think about it again.  Also thanks to Connie & Memmy for their words of wisdom.