Jehovah Witnesses questions

[Blueflame]

I was raised a baptist, but i have study with the Jehovah witnesses and have a dear friend who is one. I am not a witness or belong to that church, but i feel they get a bad rap. They are are brothers and sisters too. They do believe in Jesus and baptism full submersion. I saw some one say goodness we are not Jehovah witnesses as if that was a bad thing. I just thought i could clear up misconception about them. I can not tell you how much negativity i met when i started to study with them. I heard all kinds of things from people like they had their own bible, and they did not believe in Jesus or baptism. These things are just not true. I am not saying i agree with all their views, but i think they must be doing something right for the world to hate them so much:) All who believe in Jesus need to come together, just trying to make that happen  in my small little way.

[gbzone]

if you go to the gospels  you will, find a group of Jews who" believed on him"
Yet they were not converted  and as the conversation went on in the end jesus said "ye are of yoru father the devil"
The roman catholic church  says a,lot about Jesus  and say they believe.

It is also written that the devil believes as well .

So it is clear there is more than meets the eye in  beeliving in Jesus .
In truth those who promote the idea of just believe Jesus  do themslves and all who follow them great spiritual injury.
I too had 'conversations' when  not a Christian .

Be warned  they have a form of godliness but deny the power of holyness.

Nor are they converted.

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

What fellowship has light with darkness?

The great troubel they have is that what they think iks light is in truth darkkness and therefor great.

In most cases its a waste of time  talkign to them .Unless the Lord directs you to do so to an individual.

Togther  it always is .

As it often is with others.

in Christ
gerald

[Trumpeter]

To The Church, Who Bear My Name, Who Neither Know My Church Nor Remain in His Body

Personal URL link deleted per rule 3.1

[fish153]

Blueflame--

Ask one of your Jehovah's Witnesses friends to open their "New World Translation" to John 1:1---then compare their translation to the 100 or so English translations there are.  You will note that the Jehovah's Witnesses' version states:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god" (John 1:1 NWT)

Then, check any legitimate translation put together by Greek scholars, and how they interpret the verse from the Greek (KJV, NIV, ESV, NLT, NASB, etc,):

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

They have literally altered Scripture so that Jesus is NOT GOD.  If you read John 1:14 you see that it says "And The WORD became flesh".  In other words, God incarnated Himself in human flesh. The Jehovah's Witnesses deny this.

Do you realize that 1 John says "Who is an anti-christ, but he that denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?"  He is saying that those who teach that God did not come in the flesh is of the spirit of Anti-Christ.  That is a serious charge---and the JW's are guilty of it.

Jehovah's Witnesses are very sincere----but they are sincerely wrong.  They are following a doctrine of demons---a doctrine that lowers Jesus from His glorious Deity, to the position of "a god"(John 1:1 Jehovah's Witness Bible).  It is truly blasphemous and horrific.  So, when the Jehovah's Witnesses get "a bad rap"---believe me, it's for good reason.

[Carey]

Blueflame--

Ask one of your Jehovah's Witnesses friends to open their "New World Translation" to John 1:1---then compare their translation to the 100 or so English translations there are.  You will note that the Jehovah's Witnesses' version states:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god" (John 1:1 NWT)

Then, check any legitimate translation put together by Greek scholars, and how they interpret the verse from the Greek (KJV, NIV, ESV, NLT, NASB, etc,):

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

They have literally altered Scripture so that Jesus is NOT GOD.  If you read John 1:14 you see that it says "And The WORD became flesh".  In other words, God incarnated Himself in human flesh. The Jehovah's Witnesses deny this.

Do you realize that 1 John says "Who is an anti-christ, but he that denies that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?"  He is saying that those who teach that God did not come in the flesh is of the spirit of Anti-Christ.  That is a serious charge---and the JW's are guilty of it.

Jehovah's Witnesses are very sincere----but they are sincerely wrong.  They are following a doctrine of demons---a doctrine that lowers Jesus from His glorious Deity, to the position of "a god"(John 1:1 Jehovah's Witness Bible).  It is truly blasphemous and horrific.  So, when the Jehovah's Witnesses get "a bad rap"---believe me, it's for good reason.

Well said fish,

As gbzone mentioned above, JW's deny the divinity of Christ, but if you question them on it, they they will deny the denial, saying they do believe in the divinity of Jesus.  It is only when one delves deeper does one get an understanding of what is meant by this.  Their Jesus is divine because he is a god, but they deny the trinity, Jesus is God.

[Blueflame]

WOW, I grew up a baptist and I believe Jesus is the son of God, that he has power over all things that God the father gave him power over everything. If Jesus is the father why does Jesus say No one Knows the end time except for my father in heaven, and tell me if Jesus is the father who did he pray to? Jesus did day me and my father are one in the same. I think he was referring to the father living inside of him and he living in the father, and if Jesus is the father why then is he called the  door, and why did Jesus say no one comes to the father except by me. Jesus is the door because through him we reach the father, Because he gave his life and did the fathers will perfectly, He said there is no other name that we are to be saved by. Why did Jesus say father i want your will to be done not mine, if he was the father. I am sorry but i find no fault with them on this teaching that Jesus is the son of God he is, God the father, Jesus the king, The holy spirit the father and Jesus together as my understanding.

Another point Jesus called us his brother and sisters, do you know why. That would make us son and daughters of God, we are. When we except Jesus His spirit comes to live in us and we live in his spirit, and because the Father lives in Jesus and Jesus in the Father, Through Jesus the Father lives in us because Jesus lives in us, another reason he is called the door, so we are sons and daughters of God because through Jesus the father lives in us.

[fish153]

WOW, I grew up a baptist and I believe Jesus is the son of God, that he has power over all things that God the father gave him power over everything. If Jesus is the father why does Jesus say No one Knows the end time except for my father in heaven, and tell me if Jesus is the father who did he pray to? Jesus did day me and my father are one in the same. I think he was referring to the father living inside of him and he living in the father, and if Jesus is the father why then is he called the  door, and why did Jesus say no one comes to the father except by me. Jesus is the door because through him we reach the father, Because he gave his life and did the fathers will perfectly, He said there is no other name that we are to be saved by. Why did Jesus say father i want your will to be done not mine, if he was the father. I am sorry but i find no fault with them on this teaching that Jesus is the son of God he is, God the father, Jesus the king, The holy spirit the father and Jesus together as my understanding.

Another point Jesus called us his brother and sisters, do you know why. That would make us son and daughters of God, we are. When we except Jesus His spirit comes to live in us and we live in his spirit, and because the Father lives in Jesus and Jesus in the Father, Through Jesus the Father lives in us because Jesus lives in us, another reason he is called the door, so we are sons and daughters of God because through Jesus the father lives in us.

Blueflame----

No one is saying Jesus is the Father.  Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity.  God is one God in three persons----Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  The Jehovah's Witnesses also deny that the Holy Spirit is a person---they say the Spirit is an "active force", not a person.

By denying that the Word (the Son) was incarnated as a man (John 1:14) they are denying the very Gospel itself.  The Jehovah's Witnesses are a "cult".  There are many books you can read about them. Once you understand what their doctrine REALLY is then you understand why they are called a cult.  As I said, they are sincere, but sincerely wrong.

[Blueflame]

Fish i am afraid you are wrong i have studied with them, I listen to my friend preach to me about Jesus as if i Knew nothing at all, and i kept quite and let him so i could see what they were about. They do not say the holy spirit is a force, but that he is The father and son together. What they say about Jesus is God created all things through him. They say this about the word, that Jesus is the word and when it say in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God, They say that Jesus was with God in the beginning and God was with Jesus. My friend Gary has the holy spirit in him i see it in him. So tell me why would the holy spirit be with him if he was not a child of God. Gary came to my house every week for 6 months to talk to me about Jesus,and at the end 3 times a week. That is a child of God. We must stop persecuting them.

[fish153]

Fish i am afraid you are wrong i have studied with them, I listen to my friend preach to me about Jesus as if i Knew nothing at all, and i kept quite and let him so i could see what they were about. They do not say the holy spirit is a force, but that he is The father and son together. What they say about Jesus is God created all things through him. They say this about the word, that Jesus is the word and when it say in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God, They say that Jesus was with God in the beginning and God was with Jesus. My friend Gary has the holy spirit in him i see it in him. So tell me why would the holy spirit be with him if he was not a child of God. Gary came to my house every week for 6 months to talk to me about Jesus,and at the end 3 times a week. That is a child of God. We must stop persecuting them.

Blueflame---

I'm sorry, but you are quite wrong.  I have studied the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults for years.  They are very nice people, I do not deny that.  However, we must warn them that they are teaching heretical doctrine--not encourage them.  When they come to my door I am always kind to them.  But I remind them that Jesus is indeed God.  This of course starts a discussion---for they do not believe Jesus is God.

However, compare these two verses carefully:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8)

"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches"

Please note that the person who says they are the "ALPHA AND THE OMEGA" is God in Revelation 1:8--then Jesus uses the same title in Revelation 22.  It is very clear that Jesus is God.

By comparing these two verses one can see that the Jehovah's Witnesses have purposefully altered John 1:1 in their version of the Bible, so that Jesus is not the Almighty God, but a lesser being. This, my friend, is blasphemy in it's highest form.  It is a doctrine of demons to attempt to take Glory from Jesus.  You need to see that, and to explain this to your friends.  They are nice, sincere people---but someone doesn't have to be awful and bad to be deceived.  These people are deceived and you need to pray for them, not encourage them in their beliefs.

[gbzone]

WOW, I grew up a baptist and I believe Jesus is the son of God, that he has power over all things that God the father gave him power over everything. If Jesus is the father why does Jesus say No one Knows the end time except for my father in heaven, and tell me if Jesus is the father who did he pray to? Jesus did day me and my father are one in the same. I think he was referring to the father living inside of him and he living in the father, and if Jesus is the father why then is he called the  door, and why did Jesus say no one comes to the father except by me. Jesus is the door because through him we reach the father, Because he gave his life and did the fathers will perfectly, He said there is no other name that we are to be saved by. Why did Jesus say father i want your will to be done not mine, if he was the father. I am sorry but i find no fault with them on this teaching that Jesus is the son of God he is, God the father, Jesus the king, The holy spirit the father and Jesus together as my understanding.

Another point Jesus called us his brother and sisters, do you know why. That would make us son and daughters of God, we are. When we except Jesus His spirit comes to live in us and we live in his spirit, and because the Father lives in Jesus and Jesus in the Father, Through Jesus the Father lives in us because Jesus lives in us, another reason he is called the door, so we are sons and daughters of God because through Jesus the father lives in us.

Now you are touching upon the TRinity of God which will demand another OP.

But surfice to say is this.

Jesus is the WORD made flesh.
Man shall not l,ive by bread alone but by every WORD that proceedeth form the mouth of God.

Men do not hear or understand man if the one speaking does not give his life or breath to his word.

How much less then  the Word of God?

Did not jesus say only the Father has life in himself ? and again  and He ahs given this also to the SOn.Who ahs life in HImsefl.

"My Word said God that goeth forth out of my mouth shall not return unto me void  bus shall acomplish that where unto I send it"

"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone but by every WORD that proccedeth from thne MOUTH of God"

"he then that receiveth me recievth HIm that sent me"
he then that ahs the Son ahs life  he who has not the Son ahs not even seen life.

The fact that for oursakes  they seem seperate  denies the fact as it were that they act as an idivisable ONE  in perfect harmony.

The only time when it was not so . wa when  for one awe full moment  he who knew no sin became sin ,and God for an eternal moment  turned away  from His only Son.
and he died.
That we might have life.
and life more abundantly.

When Andrew was it said "show us the father....."

It was the SON who tunred to him and with words of expression I know not said in reply.
"have I been with you so long that ye know me not...."?

if you want to 'understand' the Trinity of God.
and I use the word understand  in the most limited sense .
You will ahve to enter the most Holy place  and walk VERY softly.

and your head bowed.
and your hands clapsed togther in suplication.
confessing  your ignorance.
and asking  to know HIM who is from the beginning.

In Christ

gerald

[Alan]

Blueflame, perhaps your friend is not disclosing all the information regarding JW, ask your friend about hell, see what the reply is.

I had a friend that was a JW, as well as his entire family. He informed me that JW's place as much emphasis on Watch Tower Publications as they do the Bible. I also believe it to be a cultist society.

[Blueflame]

Alan you are right they do not believe in a hell they think everyone good and wicked will be raised to be with Jesus for 1000 years for one last chance for the wicked, They believe the wicked will be destroyed no hell, it will be like they just like they never were. This is wrong i agree.

But jesus said i have been give authority over all of heaven and earth and below by the father, why would Jesus need the father to give him the power. It is correct to say Jesus is God because Jesus said i have no will of my own i only will is to do what the father wants me to do. If Jesus tells us something it comes from the father, For he only speaks what the father says. He said that. You are saying Jesus and the father are the same and they are because the father lives in Jesus and Jesus i the father, They are the same because Jesus only does what the father commands. But tell me this how can Jesus be seated at Gods right hand at the seat of honor If he is the father. They are the same and not different but the father is the father and the son the son, The father said to Jesus come up here and sit at the place of honor until i humble your enemies and make them your foot stool.

I can not say i do not believe in the trinity, I know if any one of them speaks it comes from the father, We are not meant to separate them. I don't think you fully understand the father and son. This is something i am working on, but at the end when the anti Christ says he is God in the holy temple. It is then the jews realize he is not the messiah, I believe they realize this Because Jesus is the son Not the father. Waiting for an answer if that is true or not so don't hold me to that.

[Alan]

The Jews simply denied that Jesus was the Messiah, they were expected a ravishing display of glamour but instead they were given the appearance of a simple man dressed in a tunic, not at all what they were expecting.

Today, the Messianic (Jews that have accepted Jesus as the son of God while retaining their Jewish heritage) movement is growing somewhat, but there still remains traditional Jews that are awaiting Elijah and the Messiah, but we know that both have already come 

[Blueflame]

The Jews simply denied that Jesus was the Messiah, they were expected a ravishing display of glamour but instead they were given the appearance of a simple man dressed in a tunic, not at all what they were expecting.

Today, the Messianic (Jews that have accepted Jesus as the son of God while retaining their Jewish heritage) movement is growing somewhat, but there still remains traditional Jews that are awaiting Elijah and the Messiah, but we know that both have already come 

Yeah my brother went to a Jewish church for Jesus. They still need much help they were preaching to him that it is commanded to read through the whole torah every year. I told him it was not by the law we were saved but by Jesus, and i didn't think they understood that. They are still teacher of the law like in Jesus day, at least that church anyway.
Yep Jesus and Elijah already came. The anti Christ to come will deceive traditional Jews because he will come in the way they expect, Taking over the world by force. They will see Jesus coming like lighting goes from east to west in the sky, but it will be his second coming.

[Alan]

We have a couple of Messianic guest speakers that visit our ministry fairly regularly, one of which lives in Israel. They both adhere to salvation through Christ and the grace of God. Both very good men of God with strong passions for Israel.

[Blueflame]

We have a couple of Messianic guest speakers that visit our ministry fairly regularly, one of which lives in Israel. They both adhere to salvation through Christ and the grace of God. Both very good men of God with strong passions for Israel.

That is so awesome. I hope it spreads throughout the Jewish faith.I know how much the father longs to pull them close, Like a hen protecting its chicks I think Jesus said.

[Jdm]

My wife is seeking to be a baptized Jehovah's witness. We live separately and are unable to pray together. I am a Charismatic Christian and she believes that I pray to demons. The Jehovah's witness not only reject the deity of Jesus and the Trinity but reject all other Christians as part of "Christendom" and believe that their organization has an exclusive handle on the truth.

[Lively Stone]

My wife is seeking to be a baptized Jehovah's witness. We live separately and are unable to pray together. I am a Charismatic Christian and she believes that I pray to demons. The Jehovah's witness not only reject the deity of Jesus and the Trinity but reject all other Christians as part of "Christendom" and believe that their organization has an exclusive handle on the truth.

Much prayer is needed for you and your wife. The differences in your beliefs will be overwhelming and cannot be overcome without one person renouncing his or her understanding of God. Hold fast to your faith!

[Jdm]

Lively Stone- I intend to. My favorite scripture is Romans 8:38-9  "For I am persuaded, that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height , nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which i in Christ Jesus our Lord. Please pray for me. Some additional information about my circumstances can be found under the category of prayer requests, then under deliverance.

[Lively Stone]

Lively Stone- I intend to. My favorite scripture is Romans 8:38-9  "For I am persuaded, that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height , nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which i in Christ Jesus our Lord. Please pray for me. Some additional information about my circumstances can be found under the category of prayer requests, then under deliverance.

I make a promise right now to pray for you and your situation. Your wife needs a revelation of truth, and with that, your relationship will become a fully equal one before God and there will be no limit on what the two of you can do in serving Jesus Christ together.

[Jdm]

Thank you, Lively Stone

[LaSpino3]

Blueflame, how are you, doing well I hope!  This thing about Jesus has many parts concerning what he has done in the past, who he is now, what he was before he was born of Mary, and what is he now? So let's begin from the beginning.

A correct understanding of who Jesus is of the utmost importance concerning our salvation, as is who is the Holy Spirit? But let's begin with Jesus. We know before He came to us as a child, he had an existence before. How do we know? Isa.9:6, is one of many good clues. Isa.9:6, Unto us a Son is given;" Now in order for Jesus to come from the Father (be given,) this would mean he had to be before He came. This is supported in John 1:1, "In the beginning the Word (Jesus) was with God (the Father,) ane the Word was God." Now itsw logical that you cannot be with someone, and be that person at the same time.

Now who was He before He came? I am going to quote 3 verses in the N.T. that will reveal who he was.

We know the Jehovah Witnesses used the K.J.B. up to 1961. Their whole foundation was, or rather should have been based on its teachings. Now of course, they have written another version to suit their teachings.

Col.1:16, "For by Him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible ..." The context in which this verse is built on refers to Jesus see ver.14-15-17-18.

John 1:3, "All things were made by him (Jesus) and without him (Jesus) was not any thing made that was made." How do we know this? The context tells us it was the Word, one of the many offices Jesus has. Verse 14 clarifies this, "And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us." This is also supported with Matt.1:23, "A virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name Immanuel which being interpreted is God (Jehovah) with us.)  Also K.J.V. 1 Tim.3:16.

Heb.1:8, "But unto the Son (Jesus) he (the Father) said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. Ver.10, "You, Lord, (Jesus) in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands."

Now my question to them would be, "Who is the Creator of Gen.1:1? Now they will say Jehovah, and I would agree. But who is Jehovah? The clues lie in the three verses I quoted above. Jesus is called the Word because it was he who spoke the Creation into existence in Gen.1:1, and this is supported in the above verses, and all of the creation was to the glory of his Father in heaven. And it was the Holy Spirit who moved on his spoken word. Therefore He is called the Word of God."

If you have any questions concerning this post, please ask,
Phil LaSpino

[TruthScientist]

I was raised a baptist, but i have study with the Jehovah witnesses and have a dear friend who is one. I am not a witness or belong to that church, but i feel they get a bad rap. They are are brothers and sisters too. They do believe in Jesus and baptism full submersion. I saw some one say goodness we are not Jehovah witnesses as if that was a bad thing. I just thought i could clear up misconception about them. I can not tell you how much negativity i met when i started to study with them. I heard all kinds of things from people like they had their own bible, and they did not believe in Jesus or baptism. These things are just not true. I am not saying i agree with all their views, but i think they must be doing something right for the world to hate them so much:) All who believe in Jesus need to come together, just trying to make that happen  in my small little way.

Would vouchsafe them for your children of a new believer to be exposed to their teachings...  they should not be hated but the doctrine...

[willieH]

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

in Christ
gerald

There is not one Scripture which notes that JESUS CHRIST is God.  Please supply one... 


If you cannot supply a witness from Scripture, then indeed you answer your own question!  (and btw, I'm not a Jehovah Witness either!  )


JESUS CHRIST is the SON (offspring) of YHVH God... and IS in His unchanging way -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- IN SUBMISSION to His (and our) FATHER, ...YHVH God -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49


JESUS clearly claimed His SONSHIP of YHVH (which is WHY the Jews sought to put Him to death -- John 10:34-36)...  but never once did He name Himself as "GOD"... nor does any other writer of Scripture do so.


When ALL is said and done, ...YHVH God shall be ALL in ALL -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- which means that there shall be NO part of any of us (His sons), nor of His primary SON, that can be separated from YHVH's presence in EVERY WAY.


YOU my friend gbzone, are a "god" because YHVH has stated that you ARE -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 --  However... NONE of us (including JESUS), ...IS GOD Himself... only YHVH GOD is GOD...


YHVH alone is GOD, and NO other "god" stands with Him as "GOD", and states it over and again in Scripture, people just will not listen to the testimony of the WORD of YHVH, ...they instead, ...would rather have their ears tickled by deviant preachers which propose there is a "TRINITY" (unbiblical term) of "gods", which is UNBIBLICALLY presented by those preachers which are in deception -- Isaiah 43:10-11 -- Ex 20:1-3 -- Isaiah 44:6; 8 -- Isaiah 45:5-6; 14; 21-22 -- Isaiah 46:9


PEACE...  ...willieH

[chosenone]

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

in Christ
gerald

There is not one Scripture which notes that JESUS CHRIST is God.  Please supply one... 


If you cannot supply a witness from Scripture, then indeed you answer your own question!  (and btw, I'm not a Jehovah Witness either!  )


JESUS CHRIST is the SON (offspring) of YHVH God... and IS in His unchanging way -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- IN SUBMISSION to His (and our) FATHER, ...YHVH God -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49


JESUS clearly claimed His SONSHIP of YHVH (which is WHY the Jews sought to put Him to death -- John 10:34-36)...  but never once did He name Himself as "GOD"... nor does any other writer of Scripture do so.


When ALL is said and done, ...YHVH God shall be ALL in ALL -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- which means that there shall be NO part of any of us (His sons), nor of His primary SON, that can be separated from YHVH's presence in EVERY WAY.


YOU my friend gbzone, are a "god" because YHVH has stated that you ARE -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 --  However... NONE of us (including JESUS), ...IS GOD Himself... only YHVH GOD is GOD...


YHVH alone is GOD, and NO other "god" stands with Him as "GOD", and states it over and again in Scripture, people just will not listen to the testimony of the WORD of YHVH, ...they instead, ...would rather have their ears tickled by deviant preachers which propose there is a "TRINITY" (unbiblical term) of "gods", which is UNBIBLICALLY presented by those preachers which are in deception -- Isaiah 43:10-11 -- Ex 20:1-3 -- Isaiah 44:6; 8 -- Isaiah 45:5-6; 14; 21-22 -- Isaiah 46:9


PEACE...  ...willieH

Hebrews 1:3
New International Version (NIV)

3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

John 14 v 9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

[willieH]

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

in Christ
gerald

There is not one Scripture which notes that JESUS CHRIST is God.  Please supply one... 


If you cannot supply a witness from Scripture, then indeed you answer your own question!  (and btw, I'm not a Jehovah Witness either!  )


JESUS CHRIST is the SON (offspring) of YHVH God... and IS in His unchanging way -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- IN SUBMISSION to His (and our) FATHER, ...YHVH God -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49


JESUS clearly claimed His SONSHIP of YHVH (which is WHY the Jews sought to put Him to death -- John 10:34-36)...  but never once did He name Himself as "GOD"... nor does any other writer of Scripture do so.


When ALL is said and done, ...YHVH God shall be ALL in ALL -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- which means that there shall be NO part of any of us (His sons), nor of His primary SON, that can be separated from YHVH's presence in EVERY WAY.


YOU my friend gbzone, are a "god" because YHVH has stated that you ARE -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 --  However... NONE of us (including JESUS), ...IS GOD Himself... only YHVH GOD is GOD...


YHVH alone is GOD, and NO other "god" stands with Him as "GOD", and states it over and again in Scripture, people just will not listen to the testimony of the WORD of YHVH, ...they instead, ...would rather have their ears tickled by deviant preachers which propose there is a "TRINITY" (unbiblical term) of "gods", which is UNBIBLICALLY presented by those preachers which are in deception -- Isaiah 43:10-11 -- Ex 20:1-3 -- Isaiah 44:6; 8 -- Isaiah 45:5-6; 14; 21-22 -- Isaiah 46:9


PEACE...  ...willieH

Hebrews 1:3
New International Version (NIV)

3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Ennnhhhh... not good enough!     Unfortunately, you appear to have little grasp of the English language.  In your own quotation, the words call the "Son" an "EXACT REPRESENTATION of His being"...  A "representation" of something is a COPY, REFLECTION or REPRESENTATIVE, ...of another THING... In this case... The SON, is OFFSPRING, and therefore a "god" -- Psalm 82:6 -- (as I have already explained)... but NOT "GOD" Himself, as the above verses I quoted testify.


The SON is a REFLECTION of the Father...  According to SCIPTURE... an IMAGE which is visible, of the INVISIBLE God  -- Col 1:15 -- You need to come to grips with what SCRIPTURE SAYS, not continue to try to support YOUR (incomplete) view over what IT ...SAYS.


JESUS is the SON of GOD, and being an UNCHANGING entity -- Heb 13:8 -- ...IS (unchangingly)... IN SUBMISSION to Him -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49 -- 1 Cor 15:28 --  The OFFSPRING of YHVH, ...NOT... God. 


Take even the slightest MOMENT, and look at the Old Testament SCRIPTURES I provided you above, they are EXPLICIT and DETAILED in the statements made by the Father YHVH God... 


Either the Scriptures are TRUE and SAY what they SAY (without YOU or another altering them), or SCRIPTURE cannot be depended upon.  In the end, ...you are just being stubborn, dear chosenone...  unwilling to yield to the CORRECTION of Scripture provided to you -- 2 Tim 3:16 -- in due time, you will come around.     After all is said and done, it isn't in the LEAST, about you and me, chosenone... it is ALL about HIM. 

John 14 v 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

The WORDS that JESUS Spoke by HIS OWN ADMISSION, were NOT His own WORDS -- John 12:49 -- the FATHER was most certainly represented by the SON, ...but the SON Himself, did not find it fit to substitute HIMSELF for God, as you endeavor to do with Him... He clearly NOTED His position:


John 12:49 --  for I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF... but THE FATHER who SENT Me,  ....HE gave ME a ...commandment... what I SHOULD SAY, and what I SHOULD SPEAK.


After reading the above verse, ...only an UNREASONABLE person (IN DENIAL) could gather that JESUS spoke OF HIMSELF.  If you disagree with the WORDS in the verse quoted, then you are naming the above personal TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST, a LIE.


PEACE...    ...willieH

[Beta]

willieH ,
really glad that finally there is another voice speaking out against the traditional christian's nonsense/misconception and confusion that has plagued man for centuries.
The 6 days of 'human works are coming to a close and the return of Jesus Christ will finally bring truth and correction to a 'deceived world....as scripture has predicted. 

[Red Baker]

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

in Christ
gerald

There is not one Scripture which notes that JESUS CHRIST is God.  Please supply one... 


If you cannot supply a witness from Scripture, then indeed you answer your own question!  (and btw, I'm not a Jehovah Witness either!  )


JESUS CHRIST is the SON (offspring) of YHVH God... and IS in His unchanging way -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- IN SUBMISSION to His (and our) FATHER, ...YHVH God -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49


JESUS clearly claimed His SONSHIP of YHVH (which is WHY the Jews sought to put Him to death -- John 10:34-36)...  but never once did He name Himself as "GOD"... nor does any other writer of Scripture do so.


When ALL is said and done, ...YHVH God shall be ALL in ALL -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- which means that there shall be NO part of any of us (His sons), nor of His primary SON, that can be separated from YHVH's presence in EVERY WAY.


YOU my friend gbzone, are a "god" because YHVH has stated that you ARE -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 --  However... NONE of us (including JESUS), ...IS GOD Himself... only YHVH GOD is GOD...


YHVH alone is GOD, and NO other "god" stands with Him as "GOD", and states it over and again in Scripture, people just will not listen to the testimony of the WORD of YHVH, ...they instead, ...would rather have their ears tickled by deviant preachers which propose there is a "TRINITY" (unbiblical term) of "gods", which is UNBIBLICALLY presented by those preachers which are in deception -- Isaiah 43:10-11 -- Ex 20:1-3 -- Isaiah 44:6; 8 -- Isaiah 45:5-6; 14; 21-22 -- Isaiah 46:9


PEACE...  ...willieH

I see that you are still jangling.  Read and understand: Isaiah 9:6; 1 John 5:21; Romans 9:5~concerning who Jesus Christ is... Learn how to give the scriptures their proper sense, something Willie, you have not learned, and may never learn.

RB

[raggthyme13]

I agree mostly with willie. According to the Bible, Jesus is the Offspring of the only true God, (and the true God, according to Christ, is one... the FATHER.) The Father is above all. The Father is greater than all. It is my understanding that Jesus is not the Father (God) in human flesh, he is the Word of the Father become flesh. I would not say that he is merely "a god" either, but that he is deity begotten of deity. Gods (with a little g) as Judges speaks of, are still creations of the one true God. Jesus is not a created being (as JWs do teach) he is begotten, not made. No one else is like him or ever will be because he alone proceeded forth from the Father before the foundations of the earth, before all of creation, from everlasting. He alone is the Word of God, His Beloved and Holy One. He alone shares in the Father's glory and is to be honored just as his Father and is the exact representation of him. All things that came into being came by the Father through him, the Logos. That can be said of no other. He is totally unique and according to the Father, is worthy of our worship and praise. Taking it a step further tho, I do not adhere to the trinity as traditionally taught. Here is why..

Jesus said the Father (one person) is the one true God. He never claims to be the one true God, but the Son if him. But the trinity doctrine says that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (three distinct persons) together are the one true God. Two different doctrines.

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of both Christ and God, not a distinct person. God is a Spirit, I do not believe the Spirit is a third distinct person.But I don't believe perfect doctrine is necessary for salvation. Therefore, I have a hard time with those who say no JWs are Christians. Some are saved, if Jesus is their king. Anyone who trusts in the death and resurrection of Jesus shares in the promises of the Father... no?

[willieH]

I see that you are still jangling.

Please!   Right backacha Red! 


Useless and irrelevant commentary, which is as applicable to you as you foolishly and vainly attempt to apply it to me. 


Make your points with SCRIPTURE, and your points MIGHT just find themselves to be aligned with TRUTH.  If indeed you have bothered to PERSONALLY devote yourself to STUDY, and not just blindly repeat fallacies your ears have heard elsewhere.


If you just try to oppose me by noting my position as somehow purposed argument (without providing a SCRIPTURAL basis showing it to be so), then your assertion is based upon YOU and your VAIN OPINION, not upon the SCRIPTURES which we might discuss.


I provided you MANY verses of SCRIPTURE, which YOU in turn, have purposely IGNORED...  You did not attempt in the slightest, to refute what I stated...  or even point out" where I might have erroneously applied those verses, ....instead, ...you just foolishly try to employ the word "jangle", and in delusion - envision that you have somehow been effective in the use of that word, in application of it to me...     


It is a good thing for you that you and I are not opposing one another in a LIVE, SPOKEN conversation...  You are so very elementary and pathetically inept in your endeavor to belittle...  continually failing to make your points, and falling sorrowfully short within your attempt to effectively demean.


The dictionary definition of "jangle" (not that you have bothered to research words you use), is basically ----- purposed irritating verbal argument.   That I OPPOSE your position is my right.   That you may find my opposition to you IRRITATING (during our interactions on this forum), is your own personal issue, not mine.  I have just as much right to OPPOSE YOU, as you do to OPPOSE me.  Get over it.   


That YOU OPPOSE my position, makes the term "jangling" EQUALLY AS APPLICABLE to YOU as it is to me...  (though your rantings do not in the least, bother me)  ...Instead of this foolish time wasting approach, you might try proving your positions with SCRIPTURE instead of this weak, ineffective and EMPTY approach you continue to employ.

Read and understand: Isaiah 9:6;

It is a matter of opinion what the reading of this verse conveys...   You obviously have no understanding of it, as you did not volunteer that "understanding".  I shall exceed your empty approach (devoid of understanding):


JESUS Himself noted -- John 5:19 -- John 12:49 -- that of HIS OWN ADMISSION, ...He DID and SAID nothing of Himself, rather EMULATED the words and doings of the FATHER...   THIS is "understanding" enough --- which is that His "doings and sayings" were not His own, rather, He continuously FOLLOWED the commands of the one that HE, in His UNCHANGING way -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 -- was IN SUBMISSION unto -- 1 Cor 15:28


Get a clue, RED!  ----   JESUS was NOT, and IS NOT, the Father...  He was/is the (representative VISUAL) IMAGE of the INVISIBLE FATHER -- Col 1:15 -- Heb 1:3 -- which notes Him to be EMERGENT of the FATHER (offspring = son), ...OF... the FATHER's will, not His own...


JESUS noted CLEARLY that the WILL of the FATHER was that which HE stood upon, NOT... His own -- Luke 22:42 -- The FATHER never has, and never WILL, ...do the "will" of the SON -- as ALL THINGS are worked according to HIS OWN WILL -- Eph 1:11 --  PERIOD!


That YOU presently (in your inept, vain and empty approach), do not recognize JESUS' unchanging SUBMISSION unto the Father (which shall continue FOREVER), is your own personal brand of "misunderstanding" -- 1 Cor 15:28


YHVH outlined, and PROPHESIED the entirety of JESUS' life and mission.   JESUS followed to the LETTER, those prophetic WORDS... which were SPOKEN by the Father, NOT the other way around.  That you insist to put the CART before the HORSE, is to your own current and coming undoing.


JESUS was/IS... the IMAGE of the Father... not the reverse -- Heb 1:3 -- That you are firmly bound within the chains of tradition (as with the religious Pharisees which came before you), keeps you from the "understandings" which you aspire to, but fail to recognize.


JESUS was the VISIBLE representation of the INVISIBLE God -- Col 1:15 -- of course, THAT escapes your mentality, and in that lack, you proceed to EXALT the CHRIST as GOD Himself, where the very words spoken by the Prophet ISAIAH (which "prophet" you attempt to quote), firmly and CLEARLY DISMISS as true -- Isaiah 43:10-11 -- Isaiah 44:6; 8; 24 -- Isaiah 45:6; 18; 21-22

1 John 5:21;

1 John 5:21 -- Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.


Though there is no applicable relevance in this discussion afforded by this verse...  it remains a viable and TRUTHFUL admonition which I abide by in my walk with God.

Romans 9:5~concerning who Jesus Christ is...[/b] Learn how to give the scriptures their proper sense, something Willie, you have not learned, and may never learn.

Another verse given of a scattered and unfocused mind.   You are so blinded by your own vanity, that you are not even able to produce Scripture which actually supports a position... It is YOU that do not apply in the PROPER sense, and something Red, you have not learned and may never learn.


In your case, it would be better to remain silent in your foolishness, than to speak out    ...and thereby remove all doubt.    Now march forth to the moderation staff and within your INABILITY to actually discuss SCRIPTURE, ...whine to them about me.


You have very little observational insight, and even LESS ability with which to convey what you "think" you "know".      Such a shame.   


I do however, wish you well my brother...    ...and in sincerity offer prayer on your behalf,  for God's blessings to remove the veil currently in place, ...from your eyes... 


PEACE...    ...willieH

[dalet]

WOW, I grew up a baptist and I believe Jesus is the son of God, that he has power over all things that God the father gave him power over everything. If Jesus is the father why does Jesus say No one Knows the end time except for my father in heaven, and tell me if Jesus is the father who did he pray to? Jesus did day me and my father are one in the same. I think he was referring to the father living inside of him and he living in the father, and if Jesus is the father why then is he called the  door, and why did Jesus say no one comes to the father except by me. Jesus is the door because through him we reach the father, Because he gave his life and did the fathers will perfectly, He said there is no other name that we are to be saved by. Why did Jesus say father i want your will to be done not mine, if he was the father. I am sorry but i find no fault with them on this teaching that Jesus is the son of God he is, God the father, Jesus the king, The holy spirit the father and Jesus together as my understanding.

Another point Jesus called us his brother and sisters, do you know why. That would make us son and daughters of God, we are. When we except Jesus His spirit comes to live in us and we live in his spirit, and because the Father lives in Jesus and Jesus in the Father, Through Jesus the Father lives in us because Jesus lives in us, another reason he is called the door, so we are sons and daughters of God because through Jesus the father lives in us.

Blueflame----

No one is saying Jesus is the Father.  Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity.  God is one God in three persons----Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  The Jehovah's Witnesses also deny that the Holy Spirit is a person---they say the Spirit is an "active force", not a person.

By denying that the Word (the Son) was incarnated as a man (John 1:14) they are denying the very Gospel itself.  The Jehovah's Witnesses are a "cult".  There are many books you can read about them. Once you understand what their doctrine REALLY is then you understand why they are called a cult.  As I said, they are sincere, but sincerely wrong.

There is no need to waste time of figuring out things that is separate from the message of repentance. Yahusha was humble and need not identify himself as an Elohim(Ruler) much less by the name god that originally meant to invoke a presence by some pouring ritual by a Germanic tribe that practice paganism hence the name meaning of one who is invoked by pouring. Yahuah was Elohim of Israel because Elohim meant ruler or Judge that has authority in guiding providing for and protecting a nation. But his preferred character is of Existence or to cause existence which is as The Creator as that is the meaning of Yahuah, to cause existence. Yahusha did not waste time to claim such but came for people to repent to Yahuah. They are many scriptures that implies Yahusha Rules in the kingdom but for us to argue on that is useless in being shown mercy by the Creator

[SwordMaster]

willieH said...

How can you be if you deny the diety of Christ?

in Christ
gerald

There is not one Scripture which notes that JESUS CHRIST is God.  Please supply one... 

Sure thing...

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Then later in verse 14 the Spirit says through John...

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

And then again the Spirit says through John in I John...

1 John 1:1-3
1   That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--
2   the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us--
3   that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

The Word is Jesus Christ, which is ratified here in Jesus' own words...

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins."

Jesus was telling the Pharisees that unless they believed that He was God in the flesh, they could not have their sins forgiven and they would die in their sins. The Pharisees understood full well what He was claiming, and that is why they tried to stone Him for what they considered blasphemy...

John 8:58-59
58   Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59   So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

[Sister_barista]

From the Watchtower:  http://e-watchman.com/jesus-michael-the-archangel/

[Red Baker]

From the Watchtower:  http://e-watchman.com/jesus-michael-the-archangel/

I will quote the first few paragraphs:

"The simple truth revealed in the Holy Scriptures, is that Jehovah is God and Jesus is his son. More exactly, Jesus is Jehovah's only begotten Son, being the only creation in all existence that was directly created by Jehovah himself. But Jesus is not the only son. God is also Father to millions of other sons. Long before the universe was created God had a family of sons in heaven. All the angels are sons of God, created by God by means his firstborn Son.

But the angelic sons of God are not all the same sort. God created one sort as cherubs. Another classification of the spirits is seraphim.  And then there is the chief angel, an Archangel known as Michael, the great prince.

As has already been established, God's name was originally represented in Hebrew by the Tetragrammaton – the YHWH – represented in English by the name Jehovah. But before God sent his Firstborn son to the earth his name was not Jesus. Jesus was the name given to him at birth by Joseph and Mary. Besides, the name Jesus is derived from the Hebrew name Joshua which means "Jehovah is salvation." It is unlikely that a spirit would have been named a name that extols salvation from Jehovah long before the earth was even created or before Adam and Eve caused their offspring to be in need of salvation from God in the first place.

The Scriptures inform us that God has a specific name for all of the countless stars in the heavens. And of course, in the human experience everyone has a name too. It is usually the first thing a newborn baby is given. So what was Jesus' name before he came to the Earth? Reasoning upon the Scriptures it becomes evident that the chief angel, Michael, is the one referred to by the apostle Paul, who emptied himself of his divine form and became the man, Jesus. This is what the Watchtower Society has long recognized and it is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach."

The simple truth revealed in the Holy Scriptures, is that Jehovah is God and Jesus is his son.

This is half truth~Jesus is (in his Divine nature) also the I am that I am~Jehovah God! With no beginning, and no end. eternal both ways. 

more exactly, Jesus is Jehovah's only begotten Son, being the only creation in all existence that was directly created by Jehovah himself.

This is a lie from the devil himself! Jesus Christ WAS NOT A CREATED BEING FROM THE BEGINNING! That at once is a wicked attempt to destroys his Deity of being the I am that I am!

But Jesus is not the only son.

Oh yes he was God only begotten Son in the manner in which he was begotten! 

God is also Father to millions of other sons. Long before the universe was created God had a family of sons in heaven. All the angels are sons of God, created by God by means his firstborn Son.

Angles are created spirits, and are called the son of God, yet they were not begotten in the manner in which Jesus was begotten, and besides, Jesus was begotten in TIME not before the worlds began!  We have God's very own testimony concerning the glorious news of this conception in Luke 1:26-38, and other than this record, there is no account of how God begot his Son Jesus Christ.  All other teachings are vain assumptions and worthless opinions of men.

And then there is the chief angel, an Archangel known as Michael, the great prince.

There is a created angel named Micheal, yet Michael is not Jesus Christ!  There are angels created by God, that have different degree of power and glory, yet they are still created spirits sent forth to minister to the elect, for which they were created, and for no other reason were they created.  They too were elected to stay in their first estate in which they were created, and were not allowed to be deceived and fall from their first estate, as some were, including the greatest among them called Lucifer. 

But before God sent his Firstborn son to the earth his name was not Jesus.

Here is where the Jehovah Witnesses and many others agree, and it is here, and I will explain it.  The JW believe that Jesus was in the beginning just as many others believe, only with a little different slant.   Notice how they said that God sent his Firstborn into the world!  They and others believe because God sent his Firstborn into world, then he must already had been before the world begun! But that is a weak argument with no scriptures support, but only playing with words.  In john 1:6 there John said that God sent John Baptist from him. That scriptures cannot be used to support a position that John was before the world began, can it?  Jesus as we know him was born around two thousand years ago, and up until that time, God had not begotten a Son.   He he surely was not a created spirit like the rest of the angels. Jesus Christ in his Deity had NO BEGINNING, and he was not created a little god, by the Word.

The Scriptures inform us that God has a specific name for all of the countless stars in the heavens. And of course, in the human experience everyone has a name too. It is usually the first thing a newborn baby is given. So what was Jesus' name before he came to the Earth? Reasoning upon the Scriptures it becomes evident that the chief angel, Michael, is the one referred to by the apostle Paul, who emptied himself of his divine form and became the man, Jesus. This is what the Watchtower Society has long recognized and it is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach.

God did not have a Son until Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary.  It was an angel that appeared to Joesph in a dream, telling him what the child in Mary's womb shall be called, and that Joseph should call his name JESUS: for he shall saved his people from their sins. Matthew 1:20,21 Jesus is God's only begotten Son, Michael the great prince of God's children was a created spirit for that very purpose to stand and defend the elect. Daniel 12:1

[geneh_33]

I once came into my living room to find a lady sitting on my couch with my wife teaching her out of Genesis. I heard her say "millions of years" and so I asked her, "What is it you are teaching my wife when the text clearly states "day" and nowhere mentions millions of years"? I further asked her what her religion was and she said "Jehovah's Witness." I promptly told her to leave my home and not to come back teaching things about Genesis that are not written in the Bible.