Why can't I love her?

[wayne_68]

So, I've never told this to anyone but I can't really handle this alone anymore. I married a wonderful woman over 20 years ago, and she has never given me anything but faithfulness, blessing and support in all that time. The problem is that I don't love her as a man should love a woman, and really never have. We were young, and zealous, and immersed in a peer group that was full of certainty that whatever we did, God would bless and work and provide in whatever way we needed. That is to say, we believed with God all things were possible. In that environment, I met my future wife. She fell in love with me, and I thought I was in love with her, so I asked her to marry me. There were signs that I was not doing things the right way, and my heart told me so. Nonetheless, when I tried to talk about it with people I trusted, they told me that I was not seeing things correctly, and that the I had the wrong definition of what love should be. I had a wonderful girl who loved me very much, and that was not something to toss away. I thought that God would do a miracle. So we married, and it has been good, mostly because I have determined to be the man I am supposed to be, and because she is really a great wife and mom. But, I've never gotten an answer from God for the one thing I 've asked for all this time, that I would be in love with my wife. No one knows. She doesn't even know, in spite of my attempts to explain my feelings to her without hurting her. She's my friend above all, and a partner of unsurpassed quality, but the truth is, that is where it stops. In short, I feel let down by God. It has wrecked my faith, and the pain I feel over this has caused me to seek to medicate myself in unhealthy ways. I am tired of hurting, and have given up hope. I don't know what to do, other than soldier on. And one day I'll just drop. I was a coward, and now I am trapped by my own choices. I hate myself for being so selfish, but no matter what I do or have done for all these years, it will just not go away. That's it. Wondering what people would think once I finally shared this. Sorry for the long tale...

[chosenone]

wayne, welcome here and good for you for being brave
I have to ask you, what do you think love 'feels' like, and how would you think that the marriage would have been different if you had this love?

Ihave to say that I think its a bit hard blaming God when you knew early on that it wasnt right.
I do have suggestions but would like to hear back first.

[Willie T]

Do you think you deserve the love she has for you?

[wayne_68]

Thanks for the welcome. I don't know if I'm brave, but I'll try to answer your questions.
What does love feel like? Well, I don't want to sound sappy, and open myself up to justifiable accusations that I have misconceptions or am comparing things to unrealistic standards. Because that is what I heard from the people I tried to talk to long ago. Even my wife told me that I was comparing things to some crush I had when I was young. Others told me that emotions didn't really matter, that love was a "verb", etc. That was the theme of my relationship with God as well, as far as I was counseled in that regard. "Feelings don't matter, only faith." In that context I decided to marry anyway. Which dovetails prematurely into the fact that I kind of blame God for something I "knew" was wrong. I didn't know based on counsel. I just felt it, that what was there was not love in the most sensible and common usage. I was young, immature and trusted my counselors, in spite of what my heart was trying to tell me as I percieve it.

Anyway- I think that you should long for that person. They should be on your mind in a way that you can't dispel. That you should miss them when they are not around. That you should have more than just tolerance, acceptance, and respect for that person. They should make your heart flutter at times (sappy), and you should be stricken with fear at the thought of losing them. There is more, but I think that accurately reflects my understanding. Please understand, I KNOW that is not the every day, constant state of a relationship. I KNOW that relying on those feelings is a transitive and shallow approach to commitment. I KNOW a lot of those things. What I also KNOW is that I never felt those things for my wife. There is respect, deep friendship, admiration and trust. The Greeks spoke of 3 kinds of love: Philos, Eros and Agape. I presume you know about this. At best, I have Philos and Agape for my wife.

So how would the marriage have been different? Well, let me say that we have a widely respected marriage, and are in many ways the envy of our peers. It has been succesful in most every way. Some would say that is enough. However, this has been the result of two things: First, my wife is a stellar individual in every respect. Any blessing that has come our way can be traced to her character. Second, I have been a model husband. I am not boasting. I work very hard at it, and in many ways have sought to compensate for my lack of feelings by adhereing to the spiritual adage that if you "do" what is required in faith, that then the feelings will follow. The jury is still out on that one.

That being said, I believe if I really loved her, I would not have been so selfish over all these years. I temper it with dutiful efforts, but really what I have done has not been motivated by selflessness, which is the essence of love, right? I mean, "For God so loved the world that he GAVE... etc." He didn't give because it was the right thing to do. He gave because of love. That 's not why I have given. As a result, I have pursued endless self interested goals, and made many mistakes as a result that have cost my family much time, money and opportunities. I have put myself first, seeking to fill this hole. It hasn't worked, and here I am. I am convinced that if I had the love of which I speak, at least most of that would not have occurred. It hasn't diminished her love for me, which in itself is evidence of what I don't have, but she does.

Sorry again for the length of this, but as I said, this is the first time I have ever really had the chance to explain it to anyone.
Thanks.

[chosenone]

wayne I am just recovering from a migraine, will reply more tomorrow.I do believe that God can change you if you are prepared to stick with it. More tomorrow.

[wayne_68]

Hello Willie- You ask a good question, which I'm not sure I understand. So I'll look at it a couple ways:
If you mean am I a good man to her, then yes. I treat her well, and she has told me countless times, when I have been down about this state I'm in, that if I were doing anything out of line she would tell me. And she would. I have been faithful sexually, and try to put her needs in the right priority. I guess there is a bit of a flaw in analysis in a few ways, in that almost all of her friends and a number of our family have bad examples in the husband departments. So I may be benifitting from those lower standards. Also, I can't help but think she loves me so much that she can't see the things in me that I think are so despicable, my failures and flaws. Love is blind, but not completely.
If you mean am I a good enough person to deserve love in general, well, yes and no. On the outside I think I am. I am well liked and respected, and treat people right. I have certain personality traits that endear me to others; leadership, intelligence, wit, etc. But I guess that's just about likeability.
On the other hand, I go to bed every night feeling like a failure, loathing my faults, my secrets and my lack of faith. I know in my mind God loves me, and that my wife does too, but I feel like a fraud.
I don't know if that is what you were looking for.
Thanks,
W

[wayne_68]

No problem. I doubt my answer is the best cure for a migraine. Probably the opposite. Thanks again.

[Willie T]

Hello Willie- You ask a good question, which I'm not sure I understand. So I'll look at it a couple ways:
If you mean am I a good man to her, then yes. I treat her well, and she has told me countless times, when I have been down about this state I'm in, that if I were doing anything out of line she would tell me. And she would. I have been faithful sexually, and try to put her needs in the right priority. I guess there is a bit of a flaw in analysis in a few ways, in that almost all of her friends and a number of our family have bad examples in the husband departments. So I may be benifitting from those lower standards. Also, I can't help but think she loves me so much that she can't see the things in me that I think are so despicable, my failures and flaws. Love is blind, but not completely.
If you mean am I a good enough person to deserve love in general, well, yes and no. On the outside I think I am. I am well liked and respected, and treat people right. I have certain personality traits that endear me to others; leadership, intelligence, wit, etc. But I guess that's just about likeability.
On the other hand, I go to bed every night feeling like a failure, loathing my faults, my secrets and my lack of faith. I know in my mind God loves me, and that my wife does too, but I feel like a fraud.
I don't know if that is what you were looking for.
Thanks,
W

I'm actually not looking for anything at all.  Just helping to open doors for you to walk through, and take a look around, for yourself.  But I would ask if you feel that God knows any of this.  Does he know what an utter failure you are, and how incapable you are of maintaining a relationship?

Love is blind?  No, I don't think so.  She may not have noticed a lot in the beginning, but by now I imagine she pretty well sees you for what you are.  Oh, she may not know for certain about THOSE things.  You know.  The hidden ones you just now thought about.  But I'd say there's a good chance she suspects.

We have a long time ahead of us to sit here and type back and forth, so I wont go into a whole bunch just yet.  But I will leave you with this thought.

The next time you look at her, trust your suspicions.  Take into consideration the fact that she DOES know most of it already.  And let that settle into your awareness for a few days.

Later......

[Janice]

Hello Willie- You ask a good question, which I'm not sure I understand. So I'll look at it a couple ways:
If you mean am I a good man to her, then yes. I treat her well, and she has told me countless times, when I have been down about this state I'm in, that if I were doing anything out of line she would tell me. And she would. I have been faithful sexually, and try to put her needs in the right priority. I guess there is a bit of a flaw in analysis in a few ways, in that almost all of her friends and a number of our family have bad examples in the husband departments. So I may be benifitting from those lower standards. Also, I can't help but think she loves me so much that she can't see the things in me that I think are so despicable, my failures and flaws. Love is blind, but not completely.
If you mean am I a good enough person to deserve love in general, well, yes and no. On the outside I think I am. I am well liked and respected, and treat people right. I have certain personality traits that endear me to others; leadership, intelligence, wit, etc. But I guess that's just about likeability.
On the other hand, I go to bed every night feeling like a failure, loathing my faults, my secrets and my lack of faith. I know in my mind God loves me, and that my wife does too, but I feel like a fraud.
I don't know if that is what you were looking for.
Thanks,
W

This post tells me more about you than it does about your marriage. I am going to suggest that you have a spiritual issue going on rather than a marital issue, like not loving your wife.

Your post speaks of a godly sorrow that leads to repentance. You say you feel like a fraud, and you are recognizing the extent of your faults and failures and defects, and lack of love as a motive for giving, etc. You are recognizing that your life is unfulfilled for a couple of reasons. One, your relationship with God is not what it should be, and two, you may be expecting your marriage to provide what only God can provide. I know in your mind it is not so much about what your marriage can provide, but I'm talking more about your expectations in your marriage, the expectation to love her selflessly, etc.

The truth is, we all are prone to selfishness, even when we love someone. You are recognizing that your love for her has been imperfect, and there is only one way to learn perfect love. That is to experience the love of Christ. To me it sounds right now like there is more of a cognitive dissonance going on about love....the world says you experience love in those fluttery feelings in your belly when you think about your beloved, and the anticipation of seeing them at the end of the day, etc. But God's love gives us greater satisfaction than the occasional butterflies in the belly.

If you go onto youtube and search for a sacred marriage by Gary Thomas, you will find one that is called sacred marriage small group bible study by Gary Thomas - it's about 25 minutes long, and I think a really important part for you to hear is more towards the last 15 minutes. Gary talks about things that would address your post.

I think this is a wonderful opportunity for you to grow in your love for your wife, and learn to deliberately love her with selflessness as the motivation. Experiencing God's love intimately will really help you to experience deeper love - the kind God wants us to have for a spouse - with your wife.

[Cally]

I'm not married but the part where you said in your OP that you got the idea that, just because she loved you, you should just be grateful that such a thing even happened and went with it.

Do you feel like you were meant to be single? I'm just wondering. I'd hate to be in a situation where I'm stuck with a wife when all I wanted was a friend who'd really stick with me, where in today's culture close friends who care and stick with you are probably harder to get than spouses. Is it that you really wanted a friend to actually stick around, and not a wife? It makes me think so, if you don't have anyone to confide in with this stuff so as to resort to posting on a forum.

[chosenone]

Hi Wayne
Migraine a lot better so here I am. lol

What I am going to suggest is something that someone I know did and it works. Their situation was slightly different but alone the lines of what you are facing.
a)Search the Bible, especially song of songs, and pick out good verses that apply to your situation.
b)write them out and personalise them to you and your wife
c)read them aloud every day, maybe 2 or 3 times every day, ann EVERY time that negative thoughts come into your mind replace them immediatly with these verses.
d) in faith believe that these things WILL happen, and thank God that he is changing you through the power of His word.
e) carry on doing this for as long as it takes to see your wife as your true love and soul mate. It WILL happen IF you persevere.


Examples to start you off

Proverbs 5v 19
I am always transported with delight in her(wives name)love.

S of S ch7v10
She(wifes name) is my beloved, and my desire is towards her

S of S ch 7v5
I watch her with absorbed admiration and am held captive by her.


Proverbs 31v10
A capable intelligent and virtuous woman-who is he who can find her? She is far more precious that jewels, and her value is far above rubies or pearls.

I think you get the picture?

I guarantee that if you do this faithfully for 6 months you will see your wife differently. No longer go by feelings but by what Gods word says.

[wayne_68]

Willie-
After 20 years, I'm sure she knows most everything as you point out. If/since that is so, what should I do? She has demonstrated a contentment and happiness that is constant and reassuring as to her love for me. I am in the process of trying to accept the level of "love" I have for her. But there are times when I just ache in my spirit and grieve that acceptance of something that does not seem right, or to be the way that God would want me to exist. That grief is the issue here, as far as I can tell.

Yes, God knows me of course. But I've failed in my faith in Him, having sought this healing for many years with no real response has set my heart to cynicism. No doubt most of what I say here seems immature, and perhaps whiny, but I really do want to get better so I can be the man God wants me to be.

[wayne_68]

Janice-
Thank you, there is wisdom in your post. I agree, and accept that the issue is my relationship with God. I would like to know the love of which you speak. I've acknowledged this many, many times to Him, and have asked for healing more times than I can count. But, something just keeps me from getting there. It has made me cynical to think that something that seems so vital to the life of a Christian has eluded me for so long. I am ashamed of blaming God for this, but it is what it is.
I'm tired of the morbid introspection that this whole thing has engendered. I'll just ask the question that is on my mind, and that has been uttered by untold numbers of believers over the centuries: Where is He? And the more personal follow up: If love is the mark of the believer, why is it missing in my life? Its so hard and discouraging to see how little my life resembles the experience that is revealed in the pages of my Bible...

[wayne_68]

Cally- Yeah, posting on a forum seems a little sad doesn't it? That's probably a whole different discussion though. I don't think I was meant to be single, but there are times I wish I was so that I could deal with this without having it affect people who love and depend on me. It would be great if I had someone I could confide in, but dissapointment and disillusionment has crept in after witnessing how people can be. I just don't trust anyone I know, which may be irrational. Given that no one on here has any vested interest in my situation, I'm hoping the objectivity will help.

[wayne_68]

Chosenone- This is sound advice. I will spend time on it. Thank you for your kindness!

[Willie T]

The name of this forum is Grace Centered.  Nice name.  But there are really only a handful of people here who seem to have incorporated that concept into their lives. (You're speaking with a few of them)  And that's too bad.  Because it sounds like Grace is the biggest thing missing from your life right now.

Now, I can't stand to watch this guy on TV, but he has one particular book out that is just fantastic.  His name is Joseph Prince, and the book is called Destined to Reign.

I don't often suggest books, but this one is outstanding.

[Willie T]

This sounds a bit trite, but "You can't give away to another what you don't have for yourself."  (Our subject is "love".)

[wayne_68]

WT-
Yep- It's always been a problem. Your other quote below is not trite. It's true. I have almost no desire to share my beliefs, because I can't really see inviting people to experience what for me has been a trek of mild agony and depression for so long. It's wrong, I know. But people can tell if you believe what you're saying no matter how well we say it.
I started out so legalistic, so long ago, because I was so disgusted with what I was at the time. It seemed that a life of rigid discipline was the only way to get my life together. I wish it could have been different.

It has not worked out well.
I've looked at the reviews of that book, and it sounds wonderful. Time will tell...

[chosenone]

Cally- Yeah, posting on a forum seems a little sad doesn't it? That's probably a whole different discussion though. I don't think I was meant to be single, but there are times I wish I was so that I could deal with this without having it affect people who love and depend on me. It would be great if I had someone I could confide in, but dissapointment and disillusionment has crept in after witnessing how people can be. I just don't trust anyone I know, which may be irrational. Given that no one on here has any vested interest in my situation, I'm hoping the objectivity will help.

Thats sad that you cant trust anyone to share this with them. Do you cultivate friendships at your church? Go to mens groups etc?

[Willie T]

WT-
Yep- It's always been a problem. Your other quote below is not trite. It's true. I have almost no desire to share my beliefs, because I can't really see inviting people to experience what for me has been a trek of mild agony and depression for so long. It's wrong, I know. But people can tell if you believe what you're saying no matter how well we say it.
I started out so legalistic, so long ago, because I was so disgusted with what I was at the time. It seemed that a life of rigid discipline was the only way to get my life together. I wish it could have been different.

It has not worked out well.
I've looked at the reviews of that book, and it sounds wonderful. Time will tell...

It was not that long ago, at all, that I almost called other Believers "liars" (well, I probably actually did, in my mind) when they would talk about having a "personal" relationship with Jesus.

I won't share it here (Too much Matthew 7:6 involved), but I'll send you a link to a few words I said about that.  You aren't alone in this.

[HRoberson]

Here are some observations.

Loving someone is a choice, and we can love anyone we want; anyone we set our minds toward loving.

Love though, is outward focused, not inward focused. Loving someone is done for who they are, not whether I long for them, or whether I feel good around them (although, those certainly help). Here's an exercise you might try:

--Make a list of your wife's positive personality and behavioral attributes. Include the things she does specifically for you, but more general examples as well.

--Does the person you just described deserve (I use the word guardedly here because it has too many aspects) your loving response?

I think this quote is telling, as it reveals your view of yourself. If you live defensively, as though you're playing a game, as though you are hollow, it will be hard to extend love - or to admit you're doing it - to anyone else.

"On the other hand, I go to bed every night feeling like a failure, loathing my faults, my secrets and my lack of faith. I know in my mind God loves me, and that my wife does too, but I feel like a fraud."

Not all of us are built to "long for someone," but that does not mean we cannot love people. We love in our own ways and those may not be the same as what we have been told love is, or in ways that our spouses love us.

Here's another exercise:

--Who do you want to be? Be that.
--Read Galatians 5.22-23. Pause and reflect over each of those words and identify (write down) ways in which you can be more like each of them.
--Practice what you wrote down.
--Repeat each week.

How do you walk? With your eyes watching the ground, or do you have your head and eyes lifted, looking at the goodness of God, the marvel of the Creation, and love God has shown you?

Go find a Christian counselor. Someone who is licensed but who also has graduate training in theology/ministry/etc. They should be able to help you with your defensiveness, frustration, identity, and I suspect a bit of depression and anxiety.

You might also benefit from spiritual direction and training in awareness and contemplation.

[Janice]

Janice-
Thank you, there is wisdom in your post. I agree, and accept that the issue is my relationship with God. I would like to know the love of which you speak. I've acknowledged this many, many times to Him, and have asked for healing more times than I can count. But, something just keeps me from getting there. It has made me cynical to think that something that seems so vital to the life of a Christian has eluded me for so long. I am ashamed of blaming God for this, but it is what it is.
I'm tired of the morbid introspection that this whole thing has engendered. I'll just ask the question that is on my mind, and that has been uttered by untold numbers of believers over the centuries: Where is He? And the more personal follow up: If love is the mark of the believer, why is it missing in my life? Its so hard and discouraging to see how little my life resembles the experience that is revealed in the pages of my Bible...

You ask "where is he?" Take it on faith that he is there. You might not "feel" him or experience him in the magnificent ways that are described in the Bible, like Saul's experience. But we can take it on faith that he is here because he said so.

You have asked God for healing and the experience of his love. Have you done anything to actually pursue healing and love? What kinds of things do you do? Do you spend time meditating on the word? Abandoning yourself in worship? Being silent before him, waiting for him to speak? Fasting and prayer?

I used to have it all...great life. But then I had a life-altering injury that in the end, cost everything I had - family, friends, reputation, job, home, roots, and even "identity". It even almost cost me a body part, but thank God he answered my prayer to keep my leg. I came to the very end of my "self" - there was nothing left of me except bits and pieces. I had my son, my dog, and a few worldly possessions. It was only when I came to the end of my "self" that I could really experience God at work in my life, including his great love for me.

Likewise, when you come to the end of your "self", that is when, imo, authentic salvation can happen; when there is nothing left of "you", and God has to "rebuild" you according to his purpose. It sounds like you are ready for this to happen. But it takes time and much, much painful effort. It's like the painful physio that I had to go through for a long time, learning to walk again. But the good news is that there is help for this, like I had a physiotherapist, there are people and programs that are designed to help, coach and encourage you as you heal and grow.

I know it can be hard to think about, but please consider two things - one, find someone who will disciple and mentor you. This should be someone who has gone through similar struggles and come out victorious, someone you can trust to keep your confidence, someone who is objective and who will speak the truth to you in love, someone who you will accept their leading. Even leaders need leaders. Two, ask around about healing programs. There is one that I definitely recommend for healing. It is very, very hard and painful work, but I have gone through it twice now, for two different issues, and I find it extremely helpful. I really do not like the work, the painful introspection, the steps, but the end justifies the means. It's worth it. The one I recommend is called Freedom Session. You can see if it is available in your area, or you can talk with your pastor about bringing it in. If that is not available, you can try Celebrate Recovery. It is widely available, but it is more geared for people with recovery (typically from addictions). The thing is that recovery can be from anything - even marriage issues. I don't know how good Celebrate Recovery is, or how deep it goes, but if it is accessible, it might be worth checking out.

This is a good place for you to be, imo. It is a place of self-discovery, of sorrow, of confession, of penance.

[Cally]

Cally- Yeah, posting on a forum seems a little sad doesn't it? That's probably a whole different discussion though. I don't think I was meant to be single, but there are times I wish I was so that I could deal with this without having it affect people who love and depend on me. It would be great if I had someone I could confide in, but dissapointment and disillusionment has crept in after witnessing how people can be. I just don't trust anyone I know, which may be irrational. Given that no one on here has any vested interest in my situation, I'm hoping the objectivity will help.

I feel ya, but even if others aren't much help for whatever reason, I've learned that God (from whom all good things originate) really can be your confidante. He cares, and he's got the power, and he can take on all of your problems.

[wayne_68]

I do believe that too. Thanks for the kind words...

[wayne_68]

C.o- Yeah, I have in the past, but not currently. Some disappointing experiences, and also I often just feel like I can't ever be what those people are presenting themselves to be. I go to a great church, but still feel loke an outsider, as though I'm watching all these people have these beautiful experiences, but nothing is happening for me.
Also- I'm embarrased and afraid, really, to be honest about this stuff. I mean the perception is that no normal, mature Christian would feel, think or say this stuff. So it's a lonely place, and I wish I had the strength to get past all that.

[wayne_68]

Thanks WT- It is always helpfult to not feel like you're the only one dealing with something. I listened to that clip. I am happy for your victory. Even though there weren't personal details, it seems that you can relate.

[wayne_68]

Janice- It is kind of you to share that story. I can't imagine what that was like. Your words resonated with me when you spoke of the "end of yourself." Is it strange that I have daydreamed of sad things happening that would hasten something like that in my life? Well, I have. I hope it is not necessary, but honestly I would like to just know that God is there, and that he has not just written me off. If sadness would cause Him to reveal himself to me, I would almost welcome that. But I do hope it doesn't come to that.
As for the question as to what I do to seek healing... It's hard to admit, but I've withdrawn from those things b/c they only seem to make me feel worse. I end up seeing my failures when I compare things to the word, I only end up feeling like an outsider in worship. It's less painful to just stay away. I guess I've let myself adopt the attitude that if God really is interested in me, he can come find me. Ugh, I know that's terrible. The thing is that it has been so long, and I'm just tired. I can't just go and "act" like it's all good anymore. I'm not going to go and be a mirror of the surroundings at church. I've done that. This has to be real, or it's not real. Again, not God's fault, but I just stink at this.
I looked at the group you spoke of, and there aren't any near me. I could order the DVD's, but I would have to do it alone, and that has not worked out any other time.
I need a new heart I guess. Mine doesn't seem to work anymore...
But, I am going to look for a healing program. I can't afford a pro counselor, so hopefully there is something else out there.
Thanks again for the time you took to respond.

[chosenone]

C.o- Yeah, I have in the past, but not currently. Some disappointing experiences, and also I often just feel like I can't ever be what those people are presenting themselves to be. I go to a great church, but still feel like an outsider, as though I'm watching all these people have these beautiful experiences, but nothing is happening for me.
Also- I'm embarrassed and afraid, really, to be honest about this stuff. I mean the perception is that no normal, mature Christian would feel, think or say this stuff. So it's a lonely place, and I wish I had the strength to get past all that.

Wayne your words that these people 'are presenting themselves to be' are telling . Many do 'present themselves' to be what they feel they need to be. If you actually get to know people well, and ask them, many many will say what you do, that they feel like outsiders, that they feel they don't belong and that they don't fit in. Its VERY common, so please don't think its just you. For many many years I tried to be a 'good' Christian and tried to 'fit 'in' and feel 'part of it all'.l I copied other older believers, did what they did, tried so hard to 'feel' and 'look right', but it was only when I gave up and allowed myself to be me, and was honest with God, that I began to get to know Him in a real sense.
I know many believers who feel the same as you, and who always feel like outsiders. I bet there are many in your own church. Maybe you can start an 'outsiders' group for those who find it hard to fit in.
How many time have I seen people who appear to be having this amazing spiritual worship experience, later in the service going for ministry in tears. So things not hunky dory at all. Things you think you see are often not what is reallly going on. There will be many like you who are sitting there thinking, I wish I was like him or her and could have what they have. Many many in fact, but few are brave enough to admit it........Tell God, He can take it, and He knows anyway. Be honest with Him.

[Willie T]

Thanks WT- It is always helpfult to not feel like you're the only one dealing with something. I listened to that clip. I am happy for your victory. Even though there weren't personal details, it seems that you can relate.

Relate?  A little bit of an understatement.   

I won't tell you the things I have said, AFTER becoming a Christian, shaking my fists at the heavens (I'd get banned for the language, alone.)  And we won't go into the raging compulsions I've experienced for years of just ACHING to beat someone's head in with a baseball bat, or whack off their heads with a sword.  (also as a supposed Christian)  We won't go into the dozens of times I have been only moments away from killing myself, either.

And this covers none of the stealing, knife fighting, and drug selling I did in my younger days.

And you, no doubt, will notice that I am not even touching on the very personal stuff.  (Yeah, that's what I mean.)  So, perhaps I can relate a little bit.

[wayne_68]

Oh man, what a response! Thanks, I needed that, and no I'm not making light of your struggles. My younger days were dark and criminal as well. Anyway, your story gives hope, and for that I thank you! Having someone to talk to, without fear, is really refreshing...

[wayne_68]

CO- Your words touched me. Thank you for your compassion, it is so welcome. The response here has been so kind, that I already feel a lot more hopeful. Question: What do you mean be honest with God? He knows everything, so how do I go about this in a way that is different than simply relying on that truth? I'm very interested and curious as to some specifics, if that's not too personal.

[Willie T]

CO- Your words touched me. Thank you for your compassion, it is so welcome. The response here has been so kind, that I already feel a lot more hopeful. Question: What do you mean be honest with God? He knows everything, so how do I go about this in a way that is different than simply relying on that truth? I'm very interested and curious as to some specifics, if that's not too personal.

Just a couple here...... Ever told God that you sometimes think you hate him?  Ever openly confessed that you think he lied about some things?  Ever admit your doubts as to his real desires to see that YOU get some of those good things?  Ever felt he was out to punish you?  Can you tell him those things.............(or whatever others are yours, alone).................... and then sit down and see if he will talk with you about them?

[Renae610]

I haven't been to this forum in a long time, but  for some reason came tonight and find this thread.  Perhaps God is leading me here right now.  It is definitely NOT a sad or shameful or pitiful act to come to a forum!!!  I was a member of a couple other forums in the past (they closed), and I witnessed the working of the Holy Spirit countless times both in my life and the lives of others! God uses these forums!!    Wayne, sharing your heart openly is an important step. Why? Because Satan wants us to remain in hiding and to let our wounds fester as we are accountable noone.  Accountablity is important to getting a breakthrough!  You need the prayers of those of us who have heard your heart.  Have you considered the possibility that this pain is not really your own heart at all, but the Enemy causing doubt and conflict in your marriage?  This is one tactic He uses, to tell one spouse that he/she never was in love or that one fell out of love, or we married for wrong reasons, etc....and therefore this "marriage" is a lie and you need to be honest about it and at some point you can justify the idea that the relationship should be ended by divorce. The goal of the Enemy is always to destroy Covenants.  He is the author of confusion and lovelessness.
If this is what you are suffering from, then you cannot win until you embrace the truth of what love and marriage are by God's definition and resist the lies of the Enemy that seem like truth but are not!  If you do need something more from your wife to turn on your feelings, have you identified what "that" is?  What could she do that would cause your heart to flutter? You don't have to express that here, but face this nagging ache in your soul straight on and if it has no substance, ask God to remove it, and also exchange it for a new positive mindset.  Since the two of you were young, perhaps not strong Christians at the time of your wedding, consider the fact that was only the BEGINNING of LEARNING how to LOVE.  You have been performing.  You have to start on a new foundation-- Christ... Surrender yourself and your marriage to Him, and ask Him to redeem it, and bring it into alignment with God design and grow to fulfill His purposes. Marriage does not exist for our happiness as much as it does to expose  our heart, so that we can take it to God and become a new creation.... where the Love of Christ flows through you, and you love her as Christ loves the church and gives Himself for it. Your goal is to one day be able to present her to Christ, a bride without spot or wrinkle, shining with the Glory of God because of His love that flowed through you.  Does this seem unachievable?  Answer back with Scripture, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."  Go for it, brother!!  Don't walk away and miss the great opportunity that this present pain offers... you can overcome as you allow the truth to work in you! 

[wayne_68]

Well, last week for the first time, during worship I told Him that he had hurt me. And I meant it. I didn't try to talk myself out of it either. And I refused to even try to worship. That was the first time I openly acknowledged to myself that I really believed that, and didn't start admonishing myself, or even hating myself for thinking about it. And, I came on this board to tell the truth about my actions as a husband. And you know what? I don't regret it. I've come to like this, not for some abberant reasons, but because it does feel honest. And I admit, that has just not been my strong suit. So this all seems like good timing. And I have this new sense inside that He will talk to me about it. Kind of cool, and scary at the same time...

[wayne_68]

Ranae- This is a really good one. I want to spend some time thinking about it. I will get back to you asap, ok? And- Thanks, really. I'm touched again by the kindness and understanding of the sweet people here...