Why can't I love her?

[chosenone]

CO- Your words touched me. Thank you for your compassion, it is so welcome. The response here has been so kind, that I already feel a lot more hopeful. Question: What do you mean be honest with God? He knows everything, so how do I go about this in a way that is different than simply relying on that truth? I'm very interested and curious as to some specifics, if that's not too personal.

Tell him exactly how you feel about Him, and the church, and your marriage and anything else that you are struggling with. Be yourself, honest, open and real.  It was a revelation to me many years ago that it was actually OK to say such things to God, and even to be angry with him. I didn't think that was what 'good' Christians did. I was bought up in a  very religious type of church. I had so many skewed and wrong ideas of who God is, and of what being a Christian means. I actually begun to learn that God isn't some distant angry  headmaster type of God, but a loving Dad, who actually' likes me as well as loves me.(That's an important distinction)

One day He said to me, ' Being a Christian is being my child. No more no less'.
I thought that you had to do and be so many things to be a good Christian and to be liked, loved and accepted by Him. I had burdened myself with so many 'shoulds' and 'oughts' that I had got overwhelmed. I felt that God didn't like me very much, that he was disappointed with me, and that I was a failure. One day He said to me, "I am so proud of you". I couldn't believe He said that. I was so taken aback, but it was Him I just KNEW it.
Another thing He said to me back then was"did you know that there is no such thing as a 'good' or a 'bad' Christian? You either ARE my child or you ARENT". Wow another amazing statement that made me stop and think. So many of His children think they are a 'bad' Christian, and that's a lie because all of His children are truly loved, adored and accepted.
You and I have accepted His dear Son, and he is delighted in you because of that. He takes great delight in you and he knows your struggles.

I have to go now but if you want to ask more please do.

[chosenone]

Well, last week for the first time, during worship I told Him that he had hurt me. And I meant it. I didn't try to talk myself out of it either. And I refused to even try to worship. That was the first time I openly acknowledged to myself that I really believed that, and didn't start admonishing myself, or even hating myself for thinking about it. And, I came on this board to tell the truth about my actions as a husband. And you know what? I don't regret it. I've come to like this, not for some abberant reasons, but because it does feel honest. And I admit, that has just not been my strong suit. So this all seems like good timing. And I have this new sense inside that He will talk to me about it. Kind of cool, and scary at the same time...

  The thing that I like about King David was His honesty. He said it like it was, no holds barred. I feel that is what God is wanting from you, at last. It will bring freedom, I am sure of that. No more pretending. Do you know people are so relieved when others are honest? They breathe a sigh of relief, that they dont have to pretend with this person, they can be real. I always try to be real and open with other believers, if I feel it will help them.

By the way coming here has hepled so many. I have been here for about 7 years, and I have seen many changing and getting help and support. I feel that for men especially they often dont have that network of family and friends that women tend to have, and find it harder to talk to other men about such things, so for them it may be the only chance they get to off load and talk.
Anyway I am a fan of the internet. After all I met my lovely husband on an internet dating site.

[Renae610]

Of course, take your time with God.  It's great that you will express to God exactly where you seem to be at, and ask Him if what anyone said here is another part of the truth, and ask Him for all the "wisdom pieces' you have missed over the last 20 years!! :)  The Scripture says if any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God....  And Wayne that includes you. God wants to give liberally what is right and good to you... pray that your heart has room to receive it and accept the whole truth He gives you.  Listen for His voice.  Jesus said His sheep know His voice, and you will hear...  Well, I'm excited for you, because it is high time for a breakthrough, and God does not withhold from  those who desire to walk uprightly with Him.  He's your Father, and He has GOOD in store for you!!  The Enemy wants to paint doom and gloom is you stay with this wife, but if you ask me, I think your marriage has produced now what God intended for it to do from the beginning...to bring you to this moment, where you look at the man in the mirror and look to your Heavenly Father and you "get it" for the first time and become a genuine authentic man of God moving forward with a clear understanding of truth, love, righteousness and purpose.  Why can't you love her? Because you haven't face God like you're starting to face Him now!  Wow, noone is the same old, same old... after being with Jesus and being transformed by the renewing of your mind!! 

[Renae610]

Perhaps you would consider starting a journal right now if you don't have one already.  It is a good way to have that heart-to-heart talk and grow with God. 

I need to go for now, but I will pray that your mourning will soon turn into dancing!! Grieve whatever you feel you have lost or never had and then ask God to "reboot" (a computer term)...and set you on a new course, free of pain, and full of LIFE and LOVE and with God and romance for the Bride He gave you !! 

[Janice]

Wayne, you say you would like to just know that God is there. I have to ask you if you believe in God's promises. Do you believe him when he says he will never leave or forsake you? Do you believe him when he says he only wants good for you? Just because you don't "feel" him doesn't mean he is not there. He is, because he promises he is, not because you feel or don't feel him. Feelings are fleeting and change. Feelings can be deceitful. But faith is knowing that he keeps his promises because God has the integrity to keep his word. Do you believe him when he says he is standing at the door knocking?

You say you can't go out and "act" like it's all good anymore. You say you compare yourself to those who seem to have it all together. What if they are saying the same thing? What if they are tired of acting like it's all good, too? What if they had just as much pain in their lives as you do in yours?

The truth is, most people do not live authentically. Most people live in denial or even oblivion of why we do what we do, and our own powerlessness over what we do (meaning we can't overcome without the power of the Lord Jesus). This is step one in the healing programs I mentioned and it sounds like you are ready to deal with it.

What would happen if you could talk to your pastor about bringing in Freedom Session? I do have to warn you, though, that any of these healing programs are very painful, and you mentioned you stay away from worship because it's less painful to just stay away. You withdraw – that is one of the ways you cope with your stuff, but it is not a healthy way to cope.

I wish I could just walk you through the program...I will pray that you have the ability to talk with your pastor about bringing it in.

[wayne_68]

Co- OK. I have no problem with letting my real feelings be known to God, and expressing myself in that way.
What do I do after that? I know many of my questions seem to be very "rookie," even though I've been a Christian for a long time. I'm just not going to rely on what I knew/did before, so I'm rebuilding my understanding of the basics.
One other thing- The idea that I am God's child is very biblical and I truly believe that is how he wants me to relate to him. But it brings up lots of other problems. Briefly: I had a terrible relationship with my step-dad, who raised me. There were NO feelings of affection for him, at all. I have absolutely no reference point for what being a child of a father, let alone a perfect one, is like. At all.
I know the theory, but the reality is not within my grasp.
So, I think there is a pattern here, in that I've had to self-teach about love. I just don't know how to have a relationship of any other type than obligation. I must confess that, even though I love my children, more often than not it is duty and playing the part that makes me do what needs to be done.

So- I repeat the question: How does one "be" God's child relationally? Your words about "no such thing as a good or bad Christian" are important, b/c no matter how I examine myself- as a Christian, (servant/child/minister/whatever) I just feel that I am BAD at it.
Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
Thanks again- Hoping that God will speak to my heart as he has spoken to yours.

[wayne_68]

Janice- If I'm really, really honest here, I have to answer "No," I don't think I really believe those promises anymore. I used to. I bet everything I had on those promises and lost. I'm just too tired to do this again, at least in the way it's been done before. It's like I said in some other part of this thread, if God really wants to find me he knows where I am. Doesn't someone who makes a promise have to deliver on it eventually? If they don't, are we not justified in feeling let down, and not giving that person the benefit of the doubt anymore?
Ok- so that ugly confession is out of the way. 
I can tell you this- I believe- in my head, my rationality, my analytical abilities, and every other facet of my being OTHER than my inner heart- that everything good about God is true. The problem is I just don't believe it for me. And as far as I can tell from scripture, nothing is going to happen until I can overcome that unbelief.
And I really want to overcome it, I just don't know how.
Sigh. That hurt.

[chosenone]

Co- OK. I have no problem with letting my real feelings be known to God, and expressing myself in that way.
What do I do after that? I know many of my questions seem to be very "rookie," even though I've been a Christian for a long time. I'm just not going to rely on what I knew/did before, so I'm rebuilding my understanding of the basics.
One other thing- The idea that I am God's child is very biblical and I truly believe that is how he wants me to relate to him. But it brings up lots of other problems. Briefly: I had a terrible relationship with my step-dad, who raised me. There were NO feelings of affection for him, at all. I have absolutely no reference point for what being a child of a father, let alone a perfect one, is like. At all.
I know the theory, but the reality is not within my grasp.
So, I think there is a pattern here, in that I've had to self-teach about love. I just don't know how to have a relationship of any other type than obligation. I must confess that, even though I love my children, more often than not it is duty and playing the part that makes me do what needs to be done.

So- I repeat the question: How does one "be" God's child relationally? Your words about "no such thing as a good or bad Christian" are important, b/c no matter how I examine myself- as a Christian, (servant/child/minister/whatever) I just feel that I am BAD at it.
Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
Thanks again- Hoping that God will speak to my heart as he has spoken to yours.

That's what God did with me all those years ago after I had a breakdown. Got me right back to the basics of who He is(Our Farher) and who we are(His children).I cant say that I immediately 'got' it, and for many years even after that, I still found it almost impossible to relate to God. The picture that I had of Him was of a distant rather angry and disapproving father. Like you I struggled with my relationship with my own Father, who was a  hard man to live with, and was very emotionally distant all through my teenage years, as well as being a womaniser. So this did affect the way I saw God, and at the same time I had been bought up in a very religious church where my impression of God was very wrong and distorted. The change in How I saw Him and related to Him was very gradual but has now changed beyond all measure now.
I think what helped me was when I met and married my second husband(we married 7 years ago). He has a very close relationship with His heavenly Dad, and gradually it has rubbed off on me as we have prayed together and spent time together. In the last few years I have actually been able to pray to God rather than to Jesus which I did before then.

Just as I suggested saying those verses each day about your wife, do the same with God. Find some good verses about how God sees us as His children, and say them every day. I will come back with a few good ones later.

[Francois du Toit]

Hi,

I love you, brother.  And our Father loves you too, much more than anyone could love you.

Here's something I recently learned - to focus on His love for me.  (John 3:16, 1 John 4, Ps 23, etc). 

I feel you when you say that you feel absolutely no affection towards your step-dad.  Fortunately, There are many places where God reveals His Fatherly love for us.  (The lost child in Luke 17)

He turned really messed up people's lives around.  Cold blooded killers - David and Paul, adulterers - David,  traitors - Peter. 

He gave new direction to those at the end of their line - lepers, people who lost their loved ones, blind, lame, etc. 

And yes, it's all because of grace - Jesus took our failures and paid for it on the cross.  He consumed all God's condemnation, anger, wrath over our sins.  Now we are free from condemnation, fear and guilt.  We are free to live for God and to let Him pour out His blessings in our lives.

I'd also recommend Joseph Prince's book Destined to Reign.  He made a DVD that complements the message of the book - The Righteousness of God.  Both are all about grace and how Jesus stood in our place before the judgement of God.  He, the blameless, took our blame and gave His righteousness to us.  He died as us, and we live with Him for God. 

Choosenone gave excellent advice quite early on in this discussion.     That is to pick a few verses from Songs of Songs and make it personal. 

I do this regularly when I'm facing challenges.  I ask the Holy Spirit to give me one one verse each day to meditate on.  When I'm thinking this verse over, saying it to myself, I'm contently asking the holy Spirit to make this verse my own.  I want the meaning of that particular verse to become a reality in my life (because in my daily experiences it's not a reality yet).  In Christ, though, it's already a reality.  All God's promises are Yes and True, through Him.  Once I went out into my garden, late one night.  The I recited a verse over and over, maybe 100 times.  As I did that, I began to see myself exactly as the verse describe.  Next thing, brilliant solutions   to my situation popped into my head.  That's the faithful working of the Holy Spirit.  He'll give us the assurance that we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ, and He'll give us the wisdom we need as promised in James 1:5.

You mentioned that you need a new heart?  Here's absolute great news:  God is a expert heart surgeon :)
Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

I believe that by focusing on God's love for you, His grace given freely and undeserving, your 'Eros'-love for your wife will grow and explode. 

And don't let anyone condemn you any more - for there are no condemnation for us who are in Jesus Christ.  (Rom 8:1, John 3:16-18)   

When My love fails, I focus on His love for me.

Hey, remember through His wounds, we are healed (Isa 53).

Blessings,
Francois

[Willie T]

Well, last week for the first time, during worship I told Him that he had hurt me. And I meant it. I didn't try to talk myself out of it either. And I refused to even try to worship. That was the first time I openly acknowledged to myself that I really believed that, and didn't start admonishing myself, or even hating myself for thinking about it. And, I came on this board to tell the truth about my actions as a husband. And you know what? I don't regret it. I've come to like this, not for some abberant reasons, but because it does feel honest. And I admit, that has just not been my strong suit. So this all seems like good timing. And I have this new sense inside that He will talk to me about it. Kind of cool, and scary at the same time...

I haven't been to this post for a few days.  (I am kind of involved in a couple of classes... one I'm taking, and one I'm giving... They both need a fair amount of prep.)  But when I read this post, I almost wanted to hug you.  People often call me one of the most open and honest men they know.  Well, I don't know about that.  To be truthful, the honesty I show to humanity is only the amount I feel confident in exposing.  But I do get awfully honest with God.  Not all the way yet. (I still think I can hide some things.  Stupid, huh?)  But the more open and honest I am, the brighter the light becomes.  The same will happen in your life.

I think it's neat you are growing this way.  Now comes the audacity of actually being able to say you forgive God for the areas in which you feel he has wronged you.  Of course, the fact is, he hasn't....... but we DO get to feeling, and sometimes believing, that it's true.

[Willie T]

Janice- If I'm really, really honest here, I have to answer "No," I don't think I really believe those promises anymore. I used to. I bet everything I had on those promises and lost. I'm just too tired to do this again, at least in the way it's been done before. It's like I said in some other part of this thread, if God really wants to find me he knows where I am. Doesn't someone who makes a promise have to deliver on it eventually? If they don't, are we not justified in feeling let down, and not giving that person the benefit of the doubt anymore?
Ok- so that ugly confession is out of the way. 
I can tell you this- I believe- in my head, my rationality, my analytical abilities, and every other facet of my being OTHER than my inner heart- that everything good about God is true. The problem is I just don't believe it for me. And as far as I can tell from scripture, nothing is going to happen until I can overcome that unbelief.
And I really want to overcome it, I just don't know how.
Sigh. That hurt.

You DO know that YOU cannot, don't you?  Nope, not on your own.

We respond, and react, and see life's situations through the lens of our entire past.  All the hurts we suffered growing up.  God shows up with a new pair of glasses for us.  But the aggravating thing is that we have to get used to wearing those glasses.  And there are a hundred good reasons we come up with for not wearing those glasses all the time.  Well, during those times when we are neglecting the use of them, we still see the same ugly crap we have always seen.

Notice that I said, "neglect"?  It's not always the case that we "refuse" to wear the glasses... we often just neglect the benefits we know they bring.

Something to think about.

[wayne_68]

Hi Ranae- As I said, I took some time to read your posts. Again I am touched by your concern. You make much of this all as a new beginning. I am more hopeful that that is the case than I was before. Just a couple of specifics: I don't do a very good job in assigning the enemy the blame for these things I guess. I've lost track of the whole spiritual warfare thing. But I recognize it's truth and hope to place it in its proper context from now on. My favorite part of what you said: "He is the author of confusion and lovelessness." I have to get free from that.
I am not ready to journal just yet. Being on here is sort of playing the role of the whole "writing it out" part of therapy. Maybe when I get past the first few miles of this long road.

Thank you for the encouragement, and for using terms like "breakthrough" and "reboot." That is really all I want, for my wife and family as much as for myself.

[wayne_68]

Hello Everyone-
I am just writing to say that I've not been avoiding the subject, but rather that I am taking some time to consider what we've discussed, trying to implement certain changes, and waiting to see what changes take place as a result. My only feedback at this time is that I have concluded that my relationship with God needs healing, and that is a result of many factors. It is more than likely that my inability to feel certain things is a result of this not-quite-right relationship. I feel much more calm than before having accepted this. I also have come to the conclusion, with your help and having providentially come across some good studies, that what I am feeling by and large is condemnation, plain and simple. So, I am trying to focus on that truth, and replace the thoughts, attitudes and theological mistakes I have made with those that lead me TO God, rather than driving me AWAY. Seems obvious, but it's harder than some people would think. Anyway, that's where I'm at.
Any further input on how to beat the condemnation rap would be very welcome.
Thanks as always,
W

[anx]

I don't have great advise, but I can give you some.

When going through counseling and separation with my wife, I went through serious anxiety and depression from all the stress, which is something I've dealt with before. It was almost impossible to "feel" the butterflies or joy of love. Love at that time for me was much more responsibility and a Godly path/role.

What fixed the depression was her ending the separation. However, what may help you is I kept a short journal and read through the entire bible. Reading the bible was one of few things that would make the emotional pain stop. I wrote down everything that really spoke to me. Verses and promises from God. I would read through them at least weekly and try to focus on the truth when I was struggling to see any hope or feel the joy of my faith.

I'm not sure that would work for you, but find something that does. There isn't a magic bullet only a Godly path through a messy world. For me, there were also TONS of sermons, books, and resources for  anxiety and depression.

I don't know of anything for condemnation. This verse comes to mind. Romans 8 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,a 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,b God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit."

There are countless sermons online from great pastors. I found one and listened to many of his sermons. I think very likely you could find books and sermons on condemnation that may give you more incite.

Past that I do hope and pray you find a path through this. It will take time, work, and focus.

Blessings

[Angelamyers]

I don't claim to have all the Answers but I do listen to a lot of Mark Driscoll of Marz Hill Church. He has a great sermon called the church of Corinth on Coirnthians. I am not saying that I know everything about your marriage, but If you dont not have romantic love and thats what you want, I cant help you there. But Christ gave us an example of Selfless love that last forever. Romantic love is fiction and only last for a little while then it dies. then you end up with another rotten marriage. You need to ask Jesus for His love for her, I think it will change your perspective of things. Do you like your wife? You know that love is not a feeling, Right? if its feeling you want, then its not love.If she is wonderful, what do you like about her?she has dedicated her heart to you, do you not know how hard it is for a woman to just her heart to a man. She must think the world of you.The church of Corinth was marrying and divorceing just because they got tired. there is no perfect woman or man. The problem with society and christianity today is people are not reading what the gospel says, marriage is not about your feelings, but about God. I know you may not feel love for her, and if thats what you want then realize that you are not thinking about her, but your self. I pray for your situation, I believe God can make a dead man live again, he can put some majic in your marriage. so real! 

[spiritlead]

Have you ever heard of the book the 5 love languages. It was very helpful to me. It explained alot.