Breast reduction

[Angus]

If I am making the decision to forgive her over and over, then have I really forgiven her?  On a day in day out basis, I'm not around very many people. Sometimes I go extremely long periods of time with out interacting with people (besides my family).  I have had very few experiences with "Hard Feelings" toward people. When I have been upset, or mad at someone, I always just forgave them and went on. I have said to myself many times----------Ok I'm over this, it's in the past. Next thing I know, I'm mad again. That's not forgiving. I may be misinterpreting your comments. If I am then I apologize. God forgave me the first time asked. Seems like I haven't forgiven her, if I'm constantly getting upset.

[RoninJedi]

God forgave me the first time asked. Seems like I haven't forgiven her, if I'm constantly getting upset.

Don't apologize.  I should have worded what I said a little different.  The decision to forgive over and over isn't, "I'm going to forgive her for this."  It's more like, "No.  I'm not dwelling on this.  I already forgave her."  So getting the meaning muddled was my fault.  Apologies for that.

However, per your statement I quoted - Just because you get upset doesn't mean you haven't forgiven her.  It's what you do with those emotions that really matter.  That's where the "No, I already forgave her" part comes in.  It's a mental exercise, so to speak, because it is a conscious thing you have to do.

And yes, God forgives the first time we ask. But there is a big difference.  He is God.  We are not.  When God forgives our sins, He also forgets them.

" I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." - Isaiah 43:25

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." - Hebrews 8:12

"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." - Hebrews 10:17

When we carry guilt for a sin we committed and repented of, and keep asking forgiveness for the same sin, God is looking down going, "What are you talking about?"  Because He is God, He forgets our sins.

You and I are human.  There's a big difference between forgiving and forgetting.  We can forgive, but not necessarily forget.  What falls to us when we forgive is not to take that forgiveness away by harboring ill feelings toward the offender, or bringing it up again.

I hope that clarifies things I bit.

Blessings.

[Angus]

I don't know if I'm making progress, or not. I'm haveing trouble wrapping my mind around---------forgiving----------if I'm still mad.


How I see forgiveness:
When I get mad at my children, I'm over it in an instant. Totally forgiven and forgotten.
When I'm upset with a stranger.  I just write it off, as oh well. No need in ruining my day over a stranger.
When I have an issue with a buddy. Which is rare. It's no big deal. Especially if they apologize. BTW I don't wait for them to apologize to forgive.


This situation:
My wife and I have never argued. Not even over this. I had a little blow up, but nothing I'm ashamed of.
In my mind (and maybe I'm biased), this thing is just off the charts for acceptable behavior. It fits no parameters of a husband and wife relationship.
People here either think I'm lying, or misread my post. It's not about her breast at all. I actually have put that behind me.
I don't believe I have forgiven her, if I am constantly upset about it.
I can have a perfectly clear head about it, and then it starts. I think to myself----------How in the world could she have had a full blown 4 or 5 hour surgery with out talking to me about it? How could she have not wanted me there?
Another hang up for me is---------If it had been an emergency surgery. She'd kill me if I wasn't there, and I would need killin. A husband should be at his wife's surgery.

[johndoo]

Angus,
I think that she took the easy way out.  It wasn't the right way to go about it but it was the easy way.  Many of us have instances in our life where we have done the same - take the easy way out - avoid conflict.  We can have grace for others because we know it is essentially human instinct to do what is best for us above what is best for others.  Perhaps a bit selfish.  Something about this either physically or psychologically was so important to her that she chose the surgery over informing you.  It is hard to wrap you head around but it was that important to her. 
The Bible tells us to live with our wives in an understanding way.  It's tough.  It is really tough.  Hang in there.  Your processing all this and it is hard going. 
Are you doing loving kind things for her?  An interesting principle is that sometimes loving thoughts follow loving actions.

[Angus]

To answer your question, I would have to say I am not doing as many loving and kind things as before, but I am still doing loving and kind things.

A couple of you guys seem to have a background in counseling. Here are the things that I am doing to hopefully get out the other side of this. 
1. I have upped my bible reading from once a day, to 3 times a day.
2.   I call it fake it till I make it.  I put my best foot forward to seem like nothing is wrong. Especially to my children.
3.  I intentionally spend more time with my children, and less time with her. My children bring me a lot of joy.
4.  This is more of a side affect, than an attempt to get better. I have virtually quit going to ropings and jackpots. I didn't enjoy them any more, so there seemed to be no point.

All of these, but number one are probably mistakes. I don't know. I had to get the ball rolling some how. People were starting to get concerned, and asking questions.

[MeMyself]

What can SHE do to get to you forgive her?

That is what you must ask yourself.  When you have your answer, approach her and ask her for it.
When she gives it, then offer her the grace you so readily and easily offer others in your life that have fallen short and failed you.

Blessings.

[Angus]

What can SHE do to get to you forgive her?

I'm lost.

[MeMyself]

What can SHE do to get to you forgive her?

I'm lost.

Well, start thinking about it. What is keeping you from offering her what you so readily offer others when they fall short and let you down?

There has to be SOMETHING you are waiting for, looking for, wanting from her that is keeping you from allowing yourself to forgive her.

[chosenone]

I honestly think that the two of you HAVE to talk properly about this, even if it has to be with a third party to help.
You BOTH need to be able to tell the other how you are feeling and why you did what you did and said what you did.  You need to then apologise to her for not thinking of her health and well being but only of how it would affect YOU, and she needs to apologise to you for going behind your back. Once this has happened and you have talked it though properly and tried to understand each other, you need to make that decision to forgive and move on.

[Lively Stone]

I honestly think that the two of you HAVE to talk properly about this, even if it has to be with a third party to help.
You BOTH need to be able to tell the other how you are feeling and why you did what you did and said what you did.  You need to then apologise to her for not thinking of her health and well being but only of how it would affect YOU, and she needs to apologise to you for going behind your back. Once this has happened and you have talked it though properly and tried to understand each other, you need to make that decision to forgive and move on.

This is the best advice, Angus! Please do this and we will rejoice with you about the good outcome---as that is the only possible result!

[Angus]

It took a very bizarre catalyst for me to have to face some issues that i had, and quit frankly didn't even realize that they were even present. I guess sometimes we don't see the little indicator lights that God puts in our life. We need a cold hard slap in the face.

Things I learned:
I like to hold the moral high ground, and Infact I am no better than anyone else--ouch

When I sin, you sin, or my wife sins. Once repented of, it is as far as the east is from the west. It's better left in the past where God intended it to be.

Forgiveness is expected by God. He ain't playing. Try to hold on to bad feeling, and it will put you in a bad place fast.

My wife had packed those things as far as she was going to pack them. It didn't matter what anybody thought. In the end I respect that.

I somehow place my profession/lifestyle in a category by itself. I put too much emphasis on it. I'm not the toughest or the strongest. God is tougher and stronger. I'm just a man. A man that needs to serve God more, and focus less on what I enjoy.

Work had started to come first. She says, and I truely believe her that she didn't want me there because she knew I can't stand to be away. That is sad. I had made it a well established fact that nothing came before the ranch.

Warning to all------God knows your heart. If you don't face your issues he will make you. It'd been better if I had laid down my headstrong ways years ago. Now I've hurt the one that loved me the most. Thank God she has a forgiving nature.

[chosenone]

Angus, that's so encouraging. Humility is something we all need.

[MeMyself]

It took a very bizarre catalyst for me to have to face some issues that i had, and quit frankly didn't even realize that they were even present. I guess sometimes we don't see the little indicator lights that God puts in our life. We need a cold hard slap in the face.

Things I learned:
I like to hold the moral high ground, and Infact I am no better than anyone else--ouch

When I sin, you sin, or my wife sins. Once repented of, it is as far as the east is from the west. It's better left in the past where God intended it to be.

Forgiveness is expected by God. He ain't playing. Try to hold on to bad feeling, and it will put you in a bad place fast.

My wife had packed those things as far as she was going to pack them. It didn't matter what anybody thought. In the end I respect that.

I somehow place my profession/lifestyle in a category by itself. I put too much emphasis on it. I'm not the toughest or the strongest. God is tougher and stronger. I'm just a man. A man that needs to serve God more, and focus less on what I enjoy.

Work had started to come first. She says, and I truely believe her that she didn't want me there because she knew I can't stand to be away. That is sad. I had made it a well established fact that nothing came before the ranch.

Warning to all------God knows your heart. If you don't face your issues he will make you. It'd been better if I had laid down my headstrong ways years ago. Now I've hurt the one that loved me the most. Thank God she has a forgiving nature.

Glad things have smoothed out and you both can move on as a team and united front!  Thanks for sharing this report. :)

[BlackSepulcher]

My wife had a breast reduction a few weeks ago. She had mentioned having one maybe 5 or 6 times in our 17 year marriage. I never dreamt in a million years that she would actually have one. Way back in the summer she went for a consultation with a plastic surgeon. When she came back, all she said was that it was very scary. She never mentioned it again. I thought the situation had resolved itself.

Flash forward 6 months. She told me on a Sunday night after church that she was having one two days later, and that I wasn't going with her to the surgery. This thing was totally off my radar. We never discussed it one single time. I was more hurt by by her not wanting me there. When she got home, and after a few days I saw them, I was actually more hurt by her not preparing for how serious and evasive this surgery really is.

I understand that they were causing her pain. I love my wife, and I am glad they are gone if they were hurting her back. I would love her without breast. I'm not going to lie about, I liked her natural breast better. My hang up is how she went about it. We are married. She didn't come home from a shopping spree. She came home with new breast.

I am having some pretty serious resentment issues. She said she knew I would be freaked out, so she just avoided what she thought would be the worst part. I'm sorry to say the worst part is having a wife that will hide from you to a breast reduction. I've lost all respect for her. It's bleeding over into everything that we do. It's the first marital problem we have ever had.

I see it as a respect and honor issue. It has became like a snow ball rolling down a hill. I dread the thought of being around her. We were so happy for so many years. I don't see how I could resent someone I love.

It's very strange that she wouldn't want you there while she undergoes surgery. It just doesn't fit into the usual paradigm of a spouse to not want their significant other around for something like that.

Perhaps she may have felt insecure about it, and didn't want you to see her. I would say that's the most probable case, and that she masks it by making it seem like something else.
Regardless, there is no 'I' in marriage, marriage is 'becoming one flesh'. It should have been discussed with you as much as she discussed it with herself, and you been there through the whole thing.

I think however that in time the issue will resolve itself, especially if this is a relatively recent event. I'm sure she will make it up to you in some way even if not directly- many couples, more so the woman, will make up for something they realize was wrong in an indirect way.

[chosenone]

My wife had a breast reduction a few weeks ago. She had mentioned having one maybe 5 or 6 times in our 17 year marriage. I never dreamt in a million years that she would actually have one. Way back in the summer she went for a consultation with a plastic surgeon. When she came back, all she said was that it was very scary. She never mentioned it again. I thought the situation had resolved itself.

Flash forward 6 months. She told me on a Sunday night after church that she was having one two days later, and that I wasn't going with her to the surgery. This thing was totally off my radar. We never discussed it one single time. I was more hurt by by her not wanting me there. When she got home, and after a few days I saw them, I was actually more hurt by her not preparing for how serious and evasive this surgery really is.

I understand that they were causing her pain. I love my wife, and I am glad they are gone if they were hurting her back. I would love her without breast. I'm not going to lie about, I liked her natural breast better. My hang up is how she went about it. We are married. She didn't come home from a shopping spree. She came home with new breast.

I am having some pretty serious resentment issues. She said she knew I would be freaked out, so she just avoided what she thought would be the worst part. I'm sorry to say the worst part is having a wife that will hide from you to a breast reduction. I've lost all respect for her. It's bleeding over into everything that we do. It's the first marital problem we have ever had.

I see it as a respect and honor issue. It has became like a snow ball rolling down a hill. I dread the thought of being around her. We were so happy for so many years. I don't see how I could resent someone I love.

It's very strange that she wouldn't want you there while she undergoes surgery. It just doesn't fit into the usual paradigm of a spouse to not want their significant other around for something like that.

Perhaps she may have felt insecure about it, and didn't want you to see her. I would say that's the most probable case, and that she masks it by making it seem like something else.
Regardless, there is no 'I' in marriage, marriage is 'becoming one flesh'. It should have been discussed with you as much as she discussed it with herself, and you been there through the whole thing.

I think however that in time the issue will resolve itself, especially if this is a relatively recent event. I'm sure she will make it up to you in some way even if not directly- many couples, more so the woman, will make up for something they realize was wrong in an indirect way.

She probably didn't want him there because he had made it clear he didn't want her to have it despite it affecting her health.
However that has been resolved and he has recognised when where he went wrong.

[mommydi]

My wife had a breast reduction a few weeks ago. She had mentioned having one maybe 5 or 6 times in our 17 year marriage. I never dreamt in a million years that she would actually have one. Way back in the summer she went for a consultation with a plastic surgeon. When she came back, all she said was that it was very scary. She never mentioned it again. I thought the situation had resolved itself.

Flash forward 6 months. She told me on a Sunday night after church that she was having one two days later, and that I wasn't going with her to the surgery. This thing was totally off my radar. We never discussed it one single time. I was more hurt by by her not wanting me there. When she got home, and after a few days I saw them, I was actually more hurt by her not preparing for how serious and evasive this surgery really is.

I understand that they were causing her pain. I love my wife, and I am glad they are gone if they were hurting her back. I would love her without breast. I'm not going to lie about, I liked her natural breast better. My hang up is how she went about it. We are married. She didn't come home from a shopping spree. She came home with new breast.

I am having some pretty serious resentment issues. She said she knew I would be freaked out, so she just avoided what she thought would be the worst part. I'm sorry to say the worst part is having a wife that will hide from you to a breast reduction. I've lost all respect for her. It's bleeding over into everything that we do. It's the first marital problem we have ever had.

I see it as a respect and honor issue. It has became like a snow ball rolling down a hill. I dread the thought of being around her. We were so happy for so many years. I don't see how I could resent someone I love.

It's very strange that she wouldn't want you there while she undergoes surgery. It just doesn't fit into the usual paradigm of a spouse to not want their significant other around for something like that.

Perhaps she may have felt insecure about it, and didn't want you to see her. I would say that's the most probable case, and that she masks it by making it seem like something else.
Regardless, there is no 'I' in marriage, marriage is 'becoming one flesh'. It should have been discussed with you as much as she discussed it with herself, and you been there through the whole thing.

I think however that in time the issue will resolve itself, especially if this is a relatively recent event. I'm sure she will make it up to you in some way even if not directly- many couples, more so the woman, will make up for something they realize was wrong in an indirect way.

No offense, but did you not read what he wrote?
"She says, and I truely believe her that she didn't want me there because she knew I can't stand to be away. That is sad. I had made it a well established fact that nothing came before the ranch."

[Angus]

I got a lot of good advice here. I also noticed a lot of people commented without reading my post. Either way I've made my peace with the circumstance.

[MeMyself]

I got a lot of good advice here. I also noticed a lot of people commented without reading my post. Either way I've made my peace with the circumstance.

I am so glad for that!  God bless you and your beautiful bride!

[chosenone]

I got a lot of good advice here. I also noticed a lot of people commented without reading my post. Either way I've made my peace with the circumstance.

Yes and that's the important thing in the end.