Confronting the other man in my wife's affair

[movingforward]

My wife is into the third month of her affair, and I'm feeling I need to confront the other man. I may do it tomorrow. 

It's not because I'm vindictive. I'm watching my heart on that one, going to counseling, praying with my pastor.  Nor is it in any hopes of  getting my wife to come back. I've confronted her and she continues to justify the affair by claiming it is just a non-physical, Christian friendship (I know they've spent nights together though), and by shifting the blame to me.  The affair was just the natural culmination of a year long process of her detaching from me emotionally, and being angry at the Lord. She is firm on her decision to divorce.  I don't see her budging on this, despite the fact that I've given her no scriptural grounds for divorcing.  BTW, I am also praying about doing a Matthew 18 process with her -- taking a friend and then bringing her before the "church" but that is a different decision, and it's complicated because she has traits of a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder.

Confronting him would be in the spirit of Galatians James 5:19 and Galatians 6:1. ..hopefully seeing the restoration of a Christian brother.   Plus, he is in my 9 YO son's life on the weekends, and I realize may be his step dad someday.  He's my wife's employee and I recently worked a few days with him before the affair started.    believe he is a brother in Christ (he was raised a PK and his parents currently pastor a church in another state).

The questions I have are:
1. Do I ask him if he's been physical with my wife?  (I am sure they have, because they've spent so much time together, including overnight travel.)  He might deny it, like my wife continues to do. Or do I just confront him on what he can't deny --the emotional affair-- since that is infidelity and a serious sin by itself?
2. When advising him to cut off contact with my wife, do I let him know that I will escalate it according to Jesus' teaching in Matthew 18:16 if he doesn't repent?

Any other advice?

Please pray for my wife, myself, our son, and this brother, if he really is.

Thanks

[Willie T]

And you are thinking you will accomplish...... What?

[anx]

I don't have any suggestions for you, but I think you should go forward with this. Especially if he claims to be a believer. I think anything else would be a mistake.

You are correct that nothing may come of this. However, I very much agree the Mathew 18 references is clear in what direction you should go.

This is going to be hard and you will probably just see denial and defense. I expect this will do nothing in the short run. However, after you leave, it will give him time to think this through with God on his heart. You just need to follow Mathew 18 and talk with him and perhaps the next step with his pastor. The rest is up to him, your wife, and God.

Borderline is something very hard to deal with. I'm sorry you are going  through this. Follow your responsibilities and let everyone else make they choices they do.

Blessings

[JohnDB]

Unfortunately I have seen this play out before several times in front of me.
As well as seen the end results


If she and he decide to move forward with their relationship and she divorces you...she and he will have horrible consequences to deal with.


they will become a pariah of their community. Their church will shun them. Most of their friends will do the same.


they will have to move to a new community due to the gossip surrounding them. But the rumors will follow them still.


The effect will be that the Christian community will shun them and this gossip will in fact destroy their relationship. In the end both of them will be miserable and alone.


divorce statistics also show up to prove this. Over 90% of people who get divorced to persue a relationship with someone else end up divorced or never marry the person they persue.


Also the courts do provide you with some reimbursements for what they call "Alienation of affection". So, You can take him to court for stealing your wife away even if he doesn't marry her himself.


Just some factoids to put into your brain.

[chosenone]

I think that you need to concentrate on your wife and yourself. She is your wife and she need to be the one who comes clean with you about what is really happening. Why not find a trusted couple in your church who you both know, and meet them together so that you can talk with them to guide you both.
What does your pastor say about your intentions?
Has your pastor challenged your wife?

If he is a believer then contact his pastor who can go and see him and challenge him on his behaviour. If he isnt, then he isnt going to care what you do or dont say about the Bible anyway.
I cant see what good will come of you seeing him to be honest.

[movingforward]

What I would hope to accomplish is,

1) Restoration through him repenting.  Of course that would only happen if he is already under conviction...maybe he feels guilty because he never meant it to go this far, maybe it started with an innocent  desire to help her but one thing led to another and he really doesn't have an evil hardened heart.

2) If he isn't willing to repent of the relationship, I want to at least appeal to him to lay low and quit hanging out with her where people will see.  We haven't even filed or announced the divorce publicly -- our grown children don't even know, and she has been hanging out with him at her sister's house on the weekends, with my kids' cousins present (her sister's adult children), all under the banner of "he's just a friend." Does anybody really think they're going to keep that to themselves?  Plus, she is a well known leader in the community (head of a Christian values-based non profit) and it would be a scandal in the minds of a lot of the organization's supporters to have it get out what she is doing. Her non-profit runs two shelters for women escaping domestic violence and she is THE face of the organization.  (BPD clouds  their ability to assess what the consequences of their actions might be.   I know some may think, "Let her face the consequences" but I guess my heart is to protect her still...)

3) He could be a long term fixture in our son's life, present at family events, etc, so I want to establish communication with him. I'm pretty sure she has painted me as a bad person in his eyes, and it would be good to let him see that I'm reasonable with kind intentions toward my wife no matter what happens between us two.

I don't trust my own perceptions right now however.  My life is turned upside down; I'm shattered to the core and in emotional shock and don't  trust my emotions or judgement.   That's why I'm reaching out for your here.

[chosenone]

What I would hope to accomplish is,

1) Restoration through him repenting.  Of course that would only happen if he is already under conviction...maybe he feels guilty because he never meant it to go this far, maybe it started with an innocent  desire to help her but one thing led to another and he really doesn't have an evil hardened heart.

2) If he isn't willing to repent of the relationship, I want to at least appeal to him to lay low and quit hanging out with her where people will see.  We haven't even filed or announced the divorce publicly -- our grown children don't even know, and she has been hanging out with him at her sister's house on the weekends, with my kids' cousins present (her sister's adult children), all under the banner of "he's just a friend." Does anybody really think they're going to keep that to themselves?  Plus, she is a well known leader in the community (head of a Christian values-based non profit) and it would be a scandal in the minds of a lot of the organization's supporters to have it get out what she is doing. Her non-profit runs two shelters for women escaping domestic violence and she is THE face of the organization.  (BPD clouds  their ability to assess what the consequences of their actions might be.   I know some may think, "Let her face the consequences" but I guess my heart is to protect her still...)

3) He could be a long term fixture in our son's life, present at family events, etc, so I want to establish communication with him. I'm pretty sure she has painted me as a bad person in his eyes, and it would be good to let him see that I'm reasonable with kind intentions toward my wife no matter what happens between us two.

I don't trust my own perceptions right now however.  My life is turned upside down; I'm shattered to the core and in emotional shock and don't  trust my emotions or judgement.   That's why I'm reaching out for your here.

MF how can this not come out at your wifes job? If she is determined to end her marriage for this man, then she isnt the right person to head such a Christian organisation anyway. How long do you honestly think that she will keep this a secret?

Why hasnt she at least told your children? If she is taking him to her families house, she needs to tell them asap before something is said and they find out through another person. That would be devastating for them.

What does your pastor think you need to do about this? Would he come with you to see the other man?

  How is your wife justifying a divorce as a Christian, when the only reason specifically given in the Bible is for sexual immorality?

[JohnDB]

Symptoms
People with BPD are often uncertain about their identity. As a result, their interests and values may change rapidly.
People with BPD also tend to see things in terms of extremes, such as either all good or all bad. Their views of other people may change quickly. A person who is looked up to one day may be looked down on the next day. These suddenly shifting feelings often lead to intense and unstable relationships.
Other symptoms of BPD include:

   
• Fear of being abandoned
• Feelings of emptiness and boredom
• Frequent displays of inappropriate anger
• Impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, or shoplifting
• Intolerance of being alone
• Repeated crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing

Signs and tests
Like other personality disorders, BPD is diagnosed based on a psychological evaluation and the history and severity of the symptoms.

Treatment
Many types of individual talk therapy, such as dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT), can successfully treat BPD. In addition, group therapy can help change self-destructive behaviors.
In some cases, medications can help level mood swings and treat depression or other disorders that may occur with this condition.

Expectations (prognosis)
The outlook depends on how severe the condition is and whether the person is willing to accept help. With long-term talk therapy, the person will often gradually improve.

This is pasted and copied from a medical website about the borderline personality disorder.
You got a tough road to hoe my friend.
Your best life may be coming after a divorce and yet you do not realize it yet.
But if you want you can play off her fears of being alone with this guy and explain the statistics to her about him abandoning her. He as well has no clue as to what is really going on. He doesn't have the history with her that you do. He knows nothing of what your life has really been like with her except what she has told him...and that is likely shaded to a point of resembling nothing of the truth.


Both of them are chasing a fantasy at the moment. Aided by a family member of hers that really is not helping anyone. (and her sanity may also be in question...the disorder might be genetic)

[Red Baker]

What I would hope to accomplish is,

1) Restoration through him repenting.  Of course that would only happen if he is already under conviction...maybe he feels guilty because he never meant it to go this far, maybe it started with an innocent  desire to help her but one thing led to another and he really doesn't have an evil hardened heart.

2) If he isn't willing to repent of the relationship, I want to at least appeal to him to lay low and quit hanging out with her where people will see.  We haven't even filed or announced the divorce publicly -- our grown children don't even know, and she has been hanging out with him at her sister's house on the weekends, with my kids' cousins present (her sister's adult children), all under the banner of "he's just a friend." Does anybody really think they're going to keep that to themselves?  Plus, she is a well known leader in the community (head of a Christian values-based non profit) and it would be a scandal in the minds of a lot of the organization's supporters to have it get out what she is doing. Her non-profit runs two shelters for women escaping domestic violence and she is THE face of the organization.  (BPD clouds  their ability to assess what the consequences of their actions might be.   I know some may think, "Let her face the consequences" but I guess my heart is to protect her still...)

3) He could be a long term fixture in our son's life, present at family events, etc, so I want to establish communication with him. I'm pretty sure she has painted me as a bad person in his eyes, and it would be good to let him see that I'm reasonable with kind intentions toward my wife no matter what happens between us two.

I don't trust my own perceptions right now however.  My life is turned upside down; I'm shattered to the core and in emotional shock and don't  trust my emotions or judgement.   That's why I'm reaching out for your here.

Dear movingforward,

You are one gracious man, to even desire to convert the man who is involved with your wife~in whatever way it may be, still he is involved, and has no right to be.  Adultery is not limited to going to bed, we know that from the words of our blessed Lord.  Men can commit adultery by looking and by speaking certain words to women that they have no right to speak.  They do so by excessive praise, which is one of the main ways that they commit adultery, outside of visual, which is number one. 

I definitely would confront him, but I would not reason with him.  People in those type of affairs, could care less, if you are a nice guy or not.  That would not stop him from doing what he desires to do.  This has went too far, thereby, I do not believe any good can come by confronting him in order to win him or your wife.  I would move forward, and show yourself to be strong, take your son and live a peaceable and godly life.  IF your wife repents, and wants to come back, then you must judge for yourself, if she has truly repented, and you can truly put that behind you and let go of it.  Never to mention it to her again.  I know too well.  I have went through this with my best friend and his wife.  She got into affair with the pastor of the church they where attending!  One big mess.  They did eventually work through all of it, but it was extremely hard on my friend.  I spent several months working with him and her.

Remember Paul's words, they will serve you greatly:

1 Corinthians 7:15

"But and if the unbelieving depart, let them depart.  A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.]"   

In the scriptures above this one, Paul had given a commandment that if the unbelieving spouse of a believer, desires to stay married to a believer, then that believer must not leave that unbeliever.  But in this verse, he said this: if a unbeliever desires to depart and does, then let them depart!!!

The reason why is this:  God has called his children to LIVE IN PEACE!  We are not BOUND BY GOD'S WORD to try to MAKE them stay AGAINST their will!  If you do so, then trust me, it will drive you insane, my dear brother.  God knows that better than we do, so he said again~let them depart! I know dear soul, it might not be easy to do that, but you will live a miserable life if you do not listen to the word of God.   The Lord be with thee dear believer.  His grace is wonderful, and he is gracious above ALL.  May he give you the grace, and wisdom that you need. 
RB

[Janice]

In the OP you mentioned the Matthew 18 process. I have a few points for you to consider. There is a verse that says if someone is caught in a sin, you who are mature in Christ should restore him gently. There is another verse that says to speak the truth in love. There is another verse that talks about taking a plank from your own eye before taking the speck from your brother's (I'm not saying you are guilty here, but hear me out). The verses speak of the mindset you need to be in when going to "restore" this other man. But the situation greatly affects your marriage, your reputation, etc, and you are subjectively involved (emotionally). This could be a "plank" that prevents you from speaking truth in love. I would suggest that if you do confront him, you might want the pastor to go with you and do all the talking. I think it would be appropriate to express your concern about his well-being, his spirituality. But I would only do this if he claims to be a believer.

Your wife is another story. If you are divorcing, her own actions will be found out and chances are she will be held accountable at her place of work, in the church, and in your community of family and friends. I don't understand how her family of origin would support this extra-marital relationship, unless they are not believers. If my sister tried pulling that, I would be doing the Matthew 18 process with her. There are also consequences for your children. I think you said they are adults, so when it does come out, and how it comes out, will affect her relationship with them. They are old enough to figure it out. But if you are separated, it is not your place to tell anyone her business.

Don't protect her from the consequences. Sometimes it is severe consequences and personal "cost" that drives a person with BPD to finally realize that they do need help. The whole thing might be the "rock bottom" she needs to hit before seeking help. I'm sure as her husband, it's hard to let her deal with the consequences, but just as your children needed to experience consequences as they were growing up, they learned from them. I believe that consequences are the natural discipline that God uses to restore people. Let God deal with her.

[chosenone]

Red, doesnt that verse about letting the errant spouse depart only apply to non believers? I believe the op's wife is a believer.

[epiphanius]

The questions I have are:

1. Do I ask him if he's been physical with my wife?  (I am sure they have, because they've spent so much time together, including overnight travel.)  He might deny it, like my wife continues to do. Or do I just confront him on what he can't deny --the emotional affair-- since that is infidelity and a serious sin by itself?

2. When advising him to cut off contact with my wife, do I let him know that I will escalate it according to Jesus' teaching in Matthew 18:16 if he doesn't repent?

Moving,

For both No. 1 and No. 2, I would definitely say "NO."  Either of these would immediately set a tone of hostility, and nullify any good you might hope to accomplish.  At your first encounter, approach him as a brother and do everything you can to keep it on that level.  Simply express your concern about the amount of time he is spending with your wife, as well as anything she may have said about her relationship with him that is troubling you.  If you manage to keep the discussion on the level of a concerned brother in Christ, it may actually prick his conscience.  Otherwise, it will only set you up as his enemy.  (Pray about this--if you have any doubts about being able to do it this way, it would be better not to do it at all.)

Remember how the prophet Nathan confronted King David after the death of Uriah.  By avoiding a direct confrontation until he had aroused the king's sympathy, he made it possible for David to keep his guard down, and that left him open to be convicted by God.

Any other advice?

One of the hardest things will be to react appropriately, despite the fact that his response could very well take you by surprise.  He may very well try to shock you or provoke you to anger, in which case you would be playing right into his hands if you responded with shock or anger.  Also, taking on an air of calm sarcasm or contempt will have the same effect.

[JohnDB]

From PubMed:


People with borderline personality disorder often have difficulties controlling their emotions and impulses, and find it hard to keep relationships. They can experience feelings of emptiness, suffer quick changes in mood and they may harm themselves. Problems coping with abandonment and a rapidly changing view of other people can form part of their difficulties. All of these things make it hard for them to engage with any treatment they may be offered. Those who are able to engage often find it hard to stick with the treatment and leave before the end.

[movingforward]

Well I spoke with him, the other man, today. I arrived at his workplace unannounced and asked if he had some time. We sat in my car and talked for about 45 minutes.

I started out by questioning whether he really had my wife's best interests in mind, since being seen with him in public puts her in jeopardy of losing her grown children's respect, as well as damaging her reputation as a leader in the non-profit community.

He didn't think them being seen together really posed a problem, because they were just friends, and their relationship being completely platonic. He said he was used to living in a glass house as he was raised as a pastor's kid, and knew how to live under scrutiny. I told him that even if the relationship was just a "friendship," it didn't matter anyway, because their emotional relationship was still infidelity, and also because as far as people's perceptions were concerned, it was an "appearance of evil" that would stumble Christians and cause unbelievers to point out the hypocrisy of a Christian leader belying their faith, and bringing reproach upon the Gospel.

He tried to deflect my argument by pointing out that since I had gone to one of her board members the day before to ask him to intercede with my wife (this board member is a Christian who's been a friend for 12 years) that my motives were obviously vindictive and I was seeking to get back at my wife. I said no, my motives were ONLY to get my wife to realize the destruction she was heading for. I appealed to him strongly to think of what she is risking by acting in this reckless way with him, without regard to how it could hurt others.

Then I said, "I want to switch gears... Are you a believer in Jesus?" At first he took it as a personal attack, "Why would you ask that, why would you say that about me?" I said, I'm not saying you are or you aren't, I'm just asking, what do you profess, because I don't know. I want to know if you're my brother?"

He said, yes, very much so. So I asked him if he had remorse for getting involved with my wife at a time we were still trying to work things out. He calmly looked into my eyes and said, "I don't feel any remorse because I don't think I did anything wrong." He followed my wife's line exactly, that their late night texts and calls were mainly about work issues, and that my wife communicated with a lot of friends the same way at night. I said, "I believe you defrauded me...how can you say that when my wife's attention was focused on you during that period that my wife and I were still physically coming together on weekends?" (Some days there were 50 -70 texts between, which I discovered later by checking her cell phone logs.) He got visibly uncomfortable for just a moment, but repeated that his conscience was clear, that he had never been after my wife.

Next he tried to get me on the defensive by bringing up a couple of my shortcomings and mistakes that he'd heard from my wife, and that really hurt, but I kept my composure and said, "I totally admit I blew it in certain areas."

Well I realized I wasn't getting anywhere, so I thought I'd test his resolve by asking, "Do you mind if we speak to your parents about this together? I want to find out what they were thinking, allowing you to hang out with a married woman." He rolled his eyes, "So you're going to TELL on me, eh?." I said, "No, I just really want to understand how they as pastors could allow you guys to hang out at their house for 10 days together, albiet in separate bedrooms, when she is a married woman." He said, "Yes then, let's talk to them together." He explained that he understood that we were divorcing. I said, "But I for one, didn't know we were divorcing until January, a week after your visit to your parents."

It was eerie, how assured he seemed for the most part, looking straight into my eyes. I'm wondering, is he pure evil, or, is he just an immature, confused believer?

We agreed that the talk wasn't getting anywhere. I finished by saying I didn't believe my wife had scriptural grounds for divorce, but I couldn't change her mind about divorcing me. He softened a bit and said that he really empathized with my pain, having gone through a divorce himself, and having another man now raising his kids.

Then out of nowhere he announced that he knew he was called to be a minister and that the most important thing was to spread the gospel to a hurting world. To which I replied with a bit of puzzlement, "What does THAT have to do with what we're talking about?"...but he just mumbled something. He did assure me that he would treat my son well if the r/s continued with my wife, and added, "If we did end up getting married someday - not saying that it was in the works -- but if we ever did get married, I would rather be friends than have animosity between us."

UGH.

Then he said he would pray and ask God about what I had said to him

As I drove away, I had this odd thought come into my head from somewhere, that I should be thankful this guy might be the one to take care of my disordered wife in her old age. I often feel tremendous angst wonder who's going to look after her. (I know, I'm in need of major healing from this codependency !!)

Then a few minutes later, a furious call from my wife that I made him really upset, and saying that she was going SUE me for slander if he quit. "Game on!" she said, which her favorite new saying to intimidate me. Every day, our interaction in characterized by a demonic intensity of hatred for me, which as I recently learned about BPD, is what they do when the "split" somebody evil.

Sorry for the long blow-by-blow; it soothes the hurt a bit to write it all out. Taking a step back, it really hits me how absurd this all really is.

[chosenone]

So he claims he has never been after your wife, but then says that he will treat your son well if it continues??? He is contradicting himself. 
If he isn't interested in her, he wouldn't be exchanging 60 texts a day. That is not normal for mere friends. Didnt you say that they were seen holding hands? He takes her to stay with his family? Of course they are in a relationship, whether they will admit it or not
I think they are both in complete denial actually.

You don't know if the way she is acting is due to an illness, or as you seem to suspect, demonic activity, it could be either, or she may merely be a woman who is very selfish and isn't prepared to live Gods way. We are very quick to blame bad and selfish behaviour on an illness.
From what you said, this may be a blessing for you in the long run, so if she insists on divorcing you, she will be held accountable as she has no Biblical reason. If they did marry, many would say they would be committing adultery by being married as she left you for him, and the likely hood of it lasting is minimal.

When my husbands ex met another man and divorced him(also for no Biblical reason)he felt he had failed. He was struggling to get past it. One day God clearly said to Him firmly "I have opened the door for you, now walk through it". From that day on he left it in the past, and is now in a very happy marriage with me. Her relationship didn't last, and she is alone 8 years later. That may well be where your wife ends up, but what she is doing is very serious and there will be bad consequences for them both. She needs to feel those consequences or she may never repent or see how wrong she is being.

She does need to tell your children, after all she is divorcing you. They need to know, and if she wont tell them then you need to.


Of course she cant sue you, she is being rediculous. She is mad because she may loose her 'friendship' with this man. If they are mere friends then why is she so angry?

[JohnDB]

A couple of things stood out...


This quote:


Then out of nowhere he announced that he knew he was called to be a minister and that the most important thing was to spread the gospel to a hurting world.

OK...if he is wanting to be a minister then he should know that a role of a minister's wife is going to be very similar as was his role as a PK. I know about the PK's I grew up around...they were the ones you went to if you wanted to get into some real trouble and fun all at the same time. The kids always rebelled against such harsh and rigid rules that they were to have to live under in order to pass public scrutiny. The wives were also usually fractured in some way due to the demands of public life in a congregation as well. This is definitely NOT a lifestyle she could withstand...if anything both he and she will lose everything they want if they continue to persue a relationship...which it sounds like they are...and the statistics will fall exactly as I lined out earlier...in disaster.




Then there was this quote:

He said, yes, very much so. So I asked him if he had remorse for getting involved with my wife at a time we were still trying to work things out. He calmly looked into my eyes and said, "I don't feel any remorse because I don't think I did anything wrong." He followed my wife's line exactly, that their late night texts and calls were mainly about work issues, and that my wife communicated with a lot of friends the same way at night. I said, "I believe you defrauded me...how can you say that when my wife's attention was focused on you during that period that my wife and I were still physically coming together on weekends?" (Some days there were 50 -70 texts between, which I discovered later by checking her cell phone logs.) He got visibly uncomfortable for just a moment, but repeated that his conscience was clear, that he had never been after my wife.Next he tried to get me on the defensive by bringing up a couple of my shortcomings and mistakes that he'd heard from my wife, and that really hurt, but I kept my composure and said, "I totally admit I blew it in certain areas."

The guy is totally and completely refusing to recognize and own any guilt or any possibility of guilt. (common with pharisees and Narcissists) Never mind the fact that he looks forward to the child raising...


Sooooo...denial is only a river in Egypt for this guy. He is all about pointing out your shortcomings and recognizing none of his own?


OK...so when she leaves you and divorces you...bring all of this up in court and sue him (while you are in the middle of your suit against your wife in divorce court) for alienation of affection. Bring out the clinical diagnosis of your wife's disorder and that he basically stole your wife away from you. When you are awarded damages (for most lawyers this is a slam dunk case) maybe then he will admit and see his guilt.


Then,
Where you may have some co-dependancy issues going on...what you do not realize is that a solidly Christian, older man with no real vice and a decent career is in extremely high demand. The available and unavailable women will hound you to no end for a chance to be the woman in your life. Take a look and see the total lack of single, older men in your congregation...then notice that there are still a lot of single older women there...
You won't be alone if you don't wish to be. She, on the other hand, will most likely be.


Look, I am telling you that I have been in your shoes. The wife I have now is so wonderful to me I can't even begin to tell you how I wish I had been married to her for all those years I was married to my first wife. I wish that she had gotten the benefits of the strength of my youth. I love her so much and she loves me so hard that I always wish to give her more than I am able. She in turn wants to be with me in so many ways of ministry and service...side by side...It is awesome what I have now versus the imitation I had before of true love.


And that is it...real pearls and fake pearls look a lot alike. The main difference is in price. But...one is always going to be worth fixing and keeping and both parties always agree that it is worth fixing. The other is disposable. Due to sentiment you wish it to be fixed...and there really is not any value in fixing it. That is the problem. Your soon to be ex-wife does not see any value in fixing the relationship even though it is the best thing in her life. She benefits more from your marriage than you do.


If my wife and I perceive an issue both of us are quick to jump on it...not just me and not just her...both of us look to resolve any issue we see might be a problem. It is almost like a race between the two of us to resolve a relationship problem. I know it is hard to imagine this when you have been doing most of the repair work on your relationship all these many years. But I am telling you that it is like living in a dream...a fantasy come true...and you never really feel worthy of a relationship that is healthy and wonderful. It is a long road to travel to get there...but soooo worth it in the end.

[movingforward]

Wow JohnDB, that lifted my spirits considerably.  Thank you, and everyone else for supporting me with excellence and mercy.

John, I posted on another board (but got no replies) whether it is inevitable that a giver/caretaker type would end up with a taker/user type. What if both partners by nature tended to be givers/caretakers?  What kind of r/s would this be?

I tend to over-contribute in any relationship, partly because I crave acceptance.  I am working on that and asking God to heal whatever is in me needs to be healed that I would fear rejection. But I also know that in anonymous situations where acceptance or rejection is a non-issue, I still have a merciful heart for people who are suffering want to bless them with what I have. That surely isn't a dysfunction or weakness, I don't think.  It's just the way I am.