Sex

[Trumpeter]

From God The Father-When lying together, remember the decrees of God, concerning these things of sex and intimacy:


You shall not lie with another, outside of marriage... With your spouse only shall you lie. Even sex before marriage, called fornication, is adultery.

You shall not think of others, but your spouse only, nor of unnatural acts.

You shall not lie with your wife, during her monthly shedding of blood.

You shall not partake in sodomy.

You shall not behold sexual sin with your eyes, nor partake of any form of pornography. To do so is to sin with them.

No man or woman, in all creation, shall lie with another of their same gender. This is abomination in the eyes of The Most High and full of blasphemy! I gave unto man, by Adam, woman... From his side did I form her. And he who was one became two, and they two became one again in marriage... Two of one flesh, man and woman... And I saw that it was very good.

[chosenone]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

[k-pappy]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

It may have  been jewish law back then...it should be common sense now.  Not only for the "eww" factor, but it is unhealthy.

[DaveW]

You shall not lie with another, outside of marriage... With your spouse only shall you lie. Even sex before marriage, called fornication, is adultery.

No it is not.  Adultery (the violation of marriage vows) is listed separately in both the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. Premarital sex does not involve violating the marriage vows so it is not adultery.

[DaveW]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

That is included in the 4 commands of Acts 15 which are binding on gentile believers. THose for prohibitions are:

idol worship
fornication
eating meat from a strangled animal
blood

"Fornication" is forbidden and the underlying Greek word is "pornia." As that word was used in the diaspora Jewish community (where the leadership of all the Gentile churches came from) it included ALL the Torah-prohibited sexual practices including sex during menses. 

Some also intrepret "blood" to specifically prohibit sex during menses. That view I do not believe has merit as the list closely follows the Noachide laws (losing a couple in the process) which has "shedding of innocent blood." (murder) That seems to make sense to me.

[Trumpeter]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

It may have  been jewish law back then...it should be common sense now.  Not only for the "eww" factor, but it is unhealthy.

Amen, God didn't give us His commandments to ruin our "fun", they were and still are for our protection. God loves us and doesn't want to see us hurt.

[chosenone]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

That is included in the 4 commands of Acts 15 which are binding on gentile believers. THose for prohibitions are:

idol worship
fornication
eating meat from a strangled animal
blood

"Fornication" is forbidden and the underlying Greek word is "pornia." As that word was used in the diaspora Jewish community (where the leadership of all the Gentile churches came from) it included ALL the Torah-prohibited sexual practices including sex during menses. 

Some also intrepret "blood" to specifically prohibit sex during menses. That view I do not believe has merit as the list closely follows the Noachide laws (losing a couple in the process) which has "shedding of innocent blood." (murder) That seems to make sense to me.

Yes I agree. The thing is that many women have days with a very very light shedding of blood,and I cant see why it is unhealthy. It doesnt apply to me (had a hysterectomy 10 years ago) but I cant see anywhere that it is forbidden for us as gentile believers.

[chosenone]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

It may have  been jewish law back then...it should be common sense now.  Not only for the "eww" factor, but it is unhealthy.

Amen, God didn't give us His commandments to ruin our "fun", they were and still are for our protection. God loves us and doesn't want to see us hurt.

I agree, but why would that hurt anyone??? 

Surely adultery is when we are married and have sex with someone else, not sex before marriage which is fornication?   

[k-pappy]

Hi chosenone, I think he meant during the menses.  There are risks to both men and women when they choose to engage in intercourse during that period of the woman's cycle:

* A woman's change of contracting and infection from her partner is higher
* It puts women at risk of pelvic inflammatory disease
* She is more likely to pass on blood-borne diseases (hep-b or hep-c)
* She is more likely to develope a yeast or bacterial infection

[Trumpeter]

Hi chosenone, I think he meant during the menses.  There are risks to both men and women when they choose to engage in intercourse during that period of the woman's cycle:

* A woman's change of contracting and infection from her partner is higher
* It puts women at risk of pelvic inflammatory disease
* She is more likely to pass on blood-borne diseases (hep-b or hep-c)
* She is more likely to develope a yeast or bacterial infection

That's right and God in His infinite wisdom knew this and the commandment to abstain was given.
Like I said earlier God isn't out to wreck our fun, he wants to protect us from ourselves.
It's the same with His laws regarding seafood, not to eat anything without fins and scales. It wasn't because he wanted to deprive us of a tasty crab or lobster, it's because shellfish are bottom feeders and they take a lot of pollution out of the water, something that science recently found out.
So even though you think something doesn't apply to us because we're under the "new" covenant you should remember that God gave His laws for a reason.
The shellfish example is even more applicable now due to the high levels of pollution in the water that weren't there thousands of years ago.

[DaveW]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

That is included in the 4 commands of Acts 15 which are binding on gentile believers. THose for prohibitions are:

idol worship
fornication
eating meat from a strangled animal
blood

"Fornication" is forbidden and the underlying Greek word is "pornia." As that word was used in the diaspora Jewish community (where the leadership of all the Gentile churches came from) it included ALL the Torah-prohibited sexual practices including sex during menses. 

Some also intrepret "blood" to specifically prohibit sex during menses. That view I do not believe has merit as the list closely follows the Noachide laws (losing a couple in the process) which has "shedding of innocent blood." (murder) That seems to make sense to me.

Yes I agree. The thing is that many women have days with a very very light shedding of blood,and I cant see why it is unhealthy. It doesn't apply to me (had a hysterectomy 10 years ago) but I cant see anywhere that it is forbidden for us as gentile believers.

What are you agreeing with?  My point is that it IS forbidden according to Acts 15.  You say you agree but then say you do not see where it is forbidden.

Explain.

[chosenone]

Hi chosenone, I think he meant during the menses.  There are risks to both men and women when they choose to engage in intercourse during that period of the woman's cycle:

* A woman's change of contracting and infection from her partner is higher
* It puts women at risk of pelvic inflammatory disease
* She is more likely to pass on blood-borne diseases (hep-b or hep-c)
* She is more likely to develope a yeast or bacterial infection

  Gosh I never knew that.

[chosenone]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

That is included in the 4 commands of Acts 15 which are binding on gentile believers. THose for prohibitions are:

idol worship
fornication
eating meat from a strangled animal
blood

"Fornication" is forbidden and the underlying Greek word is "pornia." As that word was used in the diaspora Jewish community (where the leadership of all the Gentile churches came from) it included ALL the Torah-prohibited sexual practices including sex during menses. 

Some also intrepret "blood" to specifically prohibit sex during menses. That view I do not believe has merit as the list closely follows the Noachide laws (losing a couple in the process) which has "shedding of innocent blood." (murder) That seems to make sense to me.

Yes I agree. The thing is that many women have days with a very very light shedding of blood,and I cant see why it is unhealthy. It doesn't apply to me (had a hysterectomy 10 years ago) but I cant see anywhere that it is forbidden for us as gentile believers.

What are you agreeing with?  My point is that it IS forbidden according to Acts 15.  You say you agree but then say you do not see where it is forbidden.

Explain.

  I agree with you that it probably meant the shedding of blood.

[DaveW]

OK. 

But you do not agree that the prohibition of "pornia" would have included sex during menses?

[Stucky]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

That is included in the 4 commands of Acts 15 which are binding on gentile believers. THose for prohibitions are:

idol worship
fornication
eating meat from a strangled animal
blood

"Fornication" is forbidden and the underlying Greek word is "pornia." As that word was used in the diaspora Jewish community (where the leadership of all the Gentile churches came from) it included ALL the Torah-prohibited sexual practices including sex during menses. 

Some also intrepret "blood" to specifically prohibit sex during menses. That view I do not believe has merit as the list closely follows the Noachide laws (losing a couple in the process) which has "shedding of innocent blood." (murder) That seems to make sense to me.

Yes I agree. The thing is that many women have days with a very very light shedding of blood,and I cant see why it is unhealthy. It doesn't apply to me (had a hysterectomy 10 years ago) but I cant see anywhere that it is forbidden for us as gentile believers.

What are you agreeing with?  My point is that it IS forbidden according to Acts 15.  You say you agree but then say you do not see where it is forbidden.

Explain.

Dave,
If you're going to post something from Scripture, could you please include which verse you are referring to for an old goat like me cuz I read Acts 15 and cant find it?  Thanks.

[DaveW]

OK Stucky - one more time just for you. 

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication [pornia] and from what is strangled and from blood.

And again:

23 and they sent this letter by them,
"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

And again in Acts 21:

25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

[Stucky]

OK Stucky - one more time just for you. 

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication [pornia] and from what is strangled and from blood.

And again:

23 and they sent this letter by them,
"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

And again in Acts 21:

25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

Thanks Dave, I appreciate that.  See?  That's what I mean when I talk about different people having different opinions on interpretation of Scriptures.  You take that word "blood" and apply it to sex and I take it and apply it to food.  "from what is strangled and from blood. This, to me has to do with food, not sex.  Sex was dealt with in the previous part of the sentence "and from fornication [pornia]".

So, you interpret it one way and I interpret it another.

[Janice]

Hi chosenone, I think he meant during the menses.  There are risks to both men and women when they choose to engage in intercourse during that period of the woman's cycle:

* A woman's change of contracting and infection from her partner is higher
* It puts women at risk of pelvic inflammatory disease
* She is more likely to pass on blood-borne diseases (hep-b or hep-c)
* She is more likely to develope a yeast or bacterial infection

  Gosh I never knew that.

There is no evidence for this. The transmission of STI's or blood-borne diseases (him to her or her to him) is no more risky than sex any other time of the month. There is no greater risk for infection or PID. PID is the result of untreated STI's such as chlamydia. And yeast infections happen as the result of unbalanced vaginal fluid, which can happen any time of the month.

If a couple is comfortable with it, sex during menstruation can actually help ease a woman's menstrual cramps. Some couples think it is just messier, but it is no more messy than any time of the month, if flow is light, or if a cervical cup is used.

Biblically speaking, I think it renders a woman "unclean". Of course, then they do not have the amenities we have today, such as running water and privacy in the washroom, sanitary products, or feminine sprays. Of course, as with anything, it is between the two in the marriage and God. Some are convicted not to, and some might say they have no conviction about it.

[k-pappy]

Janice, you are free to do what ever you want, I pointed out the health risks.  The risks are proven, but if you want to close your eyes to them and ignore them go ahead.  However, please do not misinform others.  You could be responsible for their health by promoting behavior that is unhealthy in nature.

[Lively Stone]

Hi chosenone, I think he meant during the menses.  There are risks to both men and women when they choose to engage in intercourse during that period of the woman's cycle:

* A woman's change of contracting and infection from her partner is higher
* It puts women at risk of pelvic inflammatory disease
* She is more likely to pass on blood-borne diseases (hep-b or hep-c)
* She is more likely to develope a yeast or bacterial infection

  Gosh I never knew that.

There is no evidence for this. The transmission of STI's or blood-borne diseases (him to her or her to him) is no more risky than sex any other time of the month. There is no greater risk for infection or PID. PID is the result of untreated STI's such as chlamydia. And yeast infections happen as the result of unbalanced vaginal fluid, which can happen any time of the month.

If a couple is comfortable with it, sex during menstruation can actually help ease a woman's menstrual cramps. Some couples think it is just messier, but it is no more messy than any time of the month, if flow is light, or if a cervical cup is used.

Biblically speaking, I think it renders a woman "unclean". Of course, then they do not have the amenities we have today, such as running water and privacy in the washroom, sanitary products, or feminine sprays. Of course, as with anything, it is between the two in the marriage and God. Some are convicted not to, and some might say they have no conviction about it.

I agree with this.

[Lively Stone]

Mostly right but you do realise that the monthly shedding of blood thing was a jewish law? It was never mentioned in the NT I believe.

It may have  been jewish law back then...it should be common sense now.  Not only for the "eww" factor, but it is unhealthy.

There is nothing unhealthy about sexual intercourse any day of the month for a woman or a man. We live in a culture that is aware of cleanliness and have the means for maintaining it.

The amount of blood passed from the woman during her menses is about a couple teaspoons or tablespoons. The rest is the material that sloughs off the uterine walls, awaiting implantation of the fertilized ovum.

There is so much misinformation and myths out there concerning this.

[Stucky]

 

Janice, you are free to do what ever you want, I pointed out the health risks.  The risks are proven, but if you want to close your eyes to them and ignore them go ahead.  However, please do not misinform others.  You could be responsible for their health by promoting behavior that is unhealthy in nature.

   

[Janice]

Janice, you are free to do what ever you want, I pointed out the health risks.  The risks are proven, but if you want to close your eyes to them and ignore them go ahead.  However, please do not misinform others.  You could be responsible for their health by promoting behavior that is unhealthy in nature.

Are you a physician? OBGYN?

Where are your medical research sources?

[k-pappy]

Janice,

When you get a chance, try and find a copy of "WHO Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive Use."  It is available in most of the higher university libraries.   The WHO has done numerous studies on varioys methods of contraception.  Risks of intercourse while a woman is mentrating was included in many of them, but the one I listed for your should be sufficient.

Bond.

[DaveW]

That's what I mean when I talk about different people having different opinions on interpretation of Scriptures.  You take that word "blood" and apply it to sex and I take it and apply it to food.  "from what is strangled and from blood. This, to me has to do with food, not sex.  Sex was dealt with in the previous part of the sentence "and from fornication [pornia]"

Actually it was "pornia" that I said prohibited sex during menses.  "Blood" I take to mean what was said in the Noachide laws - the shedding of innocent blood (murder).

The Noachide laws:

1    Prohibition of Idolatry
2    Prohibition of Murder (lit: shedding of innocent blood)
3    Prohibition of Theft
4    Prohibition of Sexual immorality
5    Prohibition of Blasphemy
6    Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
7    Establishment of courts of law to enforce the above.

From Talmud Bavli [Babylonian], Sanhedrin 58b–59a

[Janice]

Janice,

When you get a chance, try and find a copy of "WHO Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive Use."  It is available in most of the higher university libraries.   The WHO has done numerous studies on varioys methods of contraception.  Risks of intercourse while a woman is mentrating was included in many of them, but the one I listed for your should be sufficient.

Bond.

I'm not going to read through 130 pages. I have a busy life, thank you. What page is it on?

On another note, I have searched the WHO website, and there is nothing at all indicating sex during menstruation is any riskier than any other time of the month.

[Stucky]

That's what I mean when I talk about different people having different opinions on interpretation of Scriptures.  You take that word "blood" and apply it to sex and I take it and apply it to food.  "from what is strangled and from blood. This, to me has to do with food, not sex.  Sex was dealt with in the previous part of the sentence "and from fornication [pornia]"

Actually it was "pornia" that I said prohibited sex during menses.  "Blood" I take to mean what was said in the Noachide laws - the shedding of innocent blood (murder).

The Noachide laws:

1    Prohibition of Idolatry
2    Prohibition of Murder (lit: shedding of innocent blood)
3    Prohibition of Theft
4    Prohibition of Sexual immorality
5    Prohibition of Blasphemy
6    Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
7    Establishment of courts of law to enforce the above.

From Talmud Bavli [Babylonian], Sanhedrin 58b–59a

Dave,
From what I read "pornia" was the Greek word for "pornography" and "fornication".  I cant find anything that says "pornia" meant prohibition of sex during menses.  (Just to clarify something, I am not propagating sex during menses.  I am just discussing this for discussions sake.)

[k-pappy]

Janice,

When you get a chance, try and find a copy of "WHO Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive Use."  It is available in most of the higher university libraries.   The WHO has done numerous studies on varioys methods of contraception.  Risks of intercourse while a woman is mentrating was included in many of them, but the one I listed for your should be sufficient.

Bond.

I'm not going to read through 130 pages. I have a busy life, thank you. What page is it on?

On another note, I have searched the WHO website, and there is nothing at all indicating sex during menstruation is any riskier than any other time of the month.

If you search the internet, you will find arguments on both sides.  However, taking medical advice for anything off the internet is a very iffy proposition.  That's why I like to read actual books.  If you are not willing to do the research, then please do not tell me I am wrong.

[DaveW]

Dave,
From what I read "pornia" was the Greek word for "pornography" and "fornication".  I cant find anything that says "pornia" meant prohibition of sex during menses.  (Just to clarify something, I am not propagating sex during menses.  I am just discussing this for discussions sake.)

Actually 'pornography' was pornagraphos (sp?) It is from the root pornas which was a class of slaves kept for sexual purposes and graphos which means writing.

As to the use of "pornia," it was not how the word was used in common Greek society but how it was used in the diaspora Greek speaking Jewish communities. From what I have been able to glean is that it was used to mean ANYTHING that violated Torah (Law of Moses) sexual rules.   That would include the prohibition on sex during menses.

[Stucky]

Dave,
From what I read "pornia" was the Greek word for "pornography" and "fornication".  I cant find anything that says "pornia" meant prohibition of sex during menses.  (Just to clarify something, I am not propagating sex during menses.  I am just discussing this for discussions sake.)

Actually 'pornography' was pornagraphos (sp?) It is from the root pornas which was a class of slaves kept for sexual purposes and graphos which means writing.

As to the use of "pornia," it was not how the word was used in common Greek society but how it was used in the diaspora Greek speaking Jewish communities. From what I have been able to glean is that it was used to mean ANYTHING that violated Torah (Law of Moses) sexual rules.   That would include the prohibition on sex during menses.

Bethrothment in Jewish culture gave a couple the right to live together under the roof of the man's father's house. Pre-marital sexual relations were forbidden until after the marriage celebration had taken place.

Fornication:
Greek Word: porneia
Pronunciation: por-nā'-ä
Part of Speech: feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
from G4203

Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12
2) metaphaphorically: the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Source(s):

www.blueletterbible.org

[Lehigh]

Christ's Law has nothing to do with Gentile Christians converting to Judaism first! We are not bound by Jewish laws!

If a married couple wants to have sex during a women's menses- that's their business.

The cleanliness issue in not law. It is the same for male circumcision.

Not required for gentiles believers.

[DaveW]

Christ's Law has nothing to do with Gentile Christians converting to Judaism first! We are not bound by Jewish laws!

Quite true. Gentiles are bound by the 4 laws in Acts 15.

If a married couple wants to have sex during a women's menses- that's their business.

So I take it you do not believe that pornia includes that practice?

[Stucky]

Christ's Law has nothing to do with Gentile Christians converting to Judaism first! We are not bound by Jewish laws!

Quite true. Gentiles are bound by the 4 laws in Acts 15.

If a married couple wants to have sex during a women's menses- that's their business.

So I take it you do not believe that pornia includes that practice?

I dont.

[Janice]

Janice,

When you get a chance, try and find a copy of "WHO Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive Use."  It is available in most of the higher university libraries.   The WHO has done numerous studies on varioys methods of contraception.  Risks of intercourse while a woman is mentrating was included in many of them, but the one I listed for your should be sufficient.

Bond.

I'm not going to read through 130 pages. I have a busy life, thank you. What page is it on?

On another note, I have searched the WHO website, and there is nothing at all indicating sex during menstruation is any riskier than any other time of the month.

If you search the internet, you will find arguments on both sides.  However, taking medical advice for anything off the internet is a very iffy proposition.  That's why I like to read actual books.  If you are not willing to do the research, then please do not tell me I am wrong.

So taking medical advice from you on the net is more credible? LOL!!

I found the exact paper you cited ON THE NET. I don't happen to have a university down the block with an accessible library. I searched the WHO website. I'm not stupid. I know what sites I can and can't trust. Not only that, but I have experience. I am a woman with plenty of experience in the things you discuss. I had PID that I got when I was 18 after being raped at 16. I was a virgin and not on my period. I have had numerous yeast infections over 35 years, many of which were after a hysterectomy, meaning I could not possibly even have sex on a period. And I used to do public education in the transmission and protection of STD's. I think I am pretty well qualified to discuss the very things you THINK are "truth."

You have accused me of passing around false information. You might want to listen to your own advice.

[Stucky]

Janice,

When you get a chance, try and find a copy of "WHO Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive Use."  It is available in most of the higher university libraries.   The WHO has done numerous studies on varioys methods of contraception.  Risks of intercourse while a woman is mentrating was included in many of them, but the one I listed for your should be sufficient.

Bond.

I'm not going to read through 130 pages. I have a busy life, thank you. What page is it on?

On another note, I have searched the WHO website, and there is nothing at all indicating sex during menstruation is any riskier than any other time of the month.

If you search the internet, you will find arguments on both sides.  However, taking medical advice for anything off the internet is a very iffy proposition.  That's why I like to read actual books.  If you are not willing to do the research, then please do not tell me I am wrong.

I found the exact paper you cited ON THE NET. I don't happen to have a university down the block with an accessible library. I searched the WHO website. I'm not stupid. I know what sites I can and can't trust. Not only that, but I have experience. I am a woman with plenty of experience in the things you discuss. I had PID that I got when I was 18 after being raped at 16. I was a virgin and not on my period. I have had numerous yeast infections over 35 years, many of which were after a hysterectomy, meaning I could not possibly even have sex on a period. And I used to do public education in the transmission and protection of STD's. I think I am pretty well qualified to discuss the very things you THINK are "truth."

You have accused me of passing around false information. You might want to listen to your own advice.

   

You go, girl.