Mormon's are racist.

[hammer123]

2 Nephi 5:21
"And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."


Alma 3: 6
"And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men."

Moses 7:22
" And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them."

[the_last_gunslinger]

Well, this was an unnecessarily inflammatory title, don't you think? But I'll go along for now.

In addressing your claim, there are a few things to keep in mind. First off, these verses may seem racist only if you interpret them to literally be referencing skin pigmentation. This isn't necessarily the case. White and black have been traditionally assigned to represent good or bad respectively, and perhaps that is what the Book of Mormon prophets were doing, using symbolism and metaphors to illustrate the righteousness or wickedness of the people.

Another alternative is that yes, the Nephite people were racist. The Book of Mormon covers a time span from 600 B.C. to 421 A.D. It's not surprising that the Nephite civilization would have harbored racist feelings themselves, feelings that found their way into their written histories. Remember, we don't believe Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, as you probably do, so any racist language found therein would belong to the writers of the BoM. In fact, there is ample evidence that Joseph Smith himself was most definitely NOT a racist. There were at least two African-Americans ordained to the Priesthood during Joseph's life, one of which (Elijah Able) had his ordination certificate personally signed by the Prophet and he would later serve as a Seventy. Joseph Smith was also an outspoken abolitionist, speaking on how the color of one's skin does not lessen the worth of the soul.

In all fairness, if you look into the history of nearly any religion, you will find racist undertones, even in the Bible, prejudice was leveled at non Jews, at the Canaanites and Hittites, etc.   

[Carey]

RE: Mormons are racist.

People who live in glass houses.....

The last gunslinger is a Mormon, is he a racist? 

Hammer you might want to reconsider your approach,   just sayin,

[hammer123]

Well, this was an unnecessarily inflammatory title, don't you think? But I'll go along for now.

In addressing your claim, there are a few things to keep in mind. First off, these verses may seem racist only if you interpret them to literally be referencing skin pigmentation. This isn't necessarily the case. White and black have been traditionally assigned to represent good or bad respectively, and perhaps that is what the Book of Mormon prophets were doing, using symbolism and metaphors to illustrate the righteousness or wickedness of the people.

Another alternative is that yes, the Nephite people were racist. The Book of Mormon covers a time span from 600 B.C. to 421 A.D. It's not surprising that the Nephite civilization would have harbored racist feelings themselves, feelings that found their way into their written histories. Remember, we don't believe Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, as you probably do, so any racist language found therein would belong to the writers of the BoM. In fact, there is ample evidence that Joseph Smith himself was most definitely NOT a racist. There were at least two African-Americans ordained to the Priesthood during Joseph's life, one of which (Elijah Able) had his ordination certificate personally signed by the Prophet and he would later serve as a Seventy. Joseph Smith was also an outspoken abolitionist, speaking on how the color of one's skin does not lessen the worth of the soul.

In all fairness, if you look into the history of nearly any religion, you will find racist undertones, even in the Bible, prejudice was leveled at non Jews, at the Canaanites and Hittites, etc.   

Look buddy.  When I was a child I went to a Mormon temple several times with friends at school.   I was friends with around 20 Mormons and knew there parents as well.  All of them were racist towards blacks, it is well known that Mormons have changed there tune towards blacks presently, but in the past were very racist.

[hammer123]

RE: Mormons are racist.

People who live in glass houses.....

The last gunslinger is a Mormon, is he a racist? 

Hammer you might want to reconsider your approach,   just sayin,

You might want to educate yourself about the history of Mormons, just sayin.

[the_last_gunslinger]

Look buddy.  When I was a child I went to a Mormon temple several times with friends at school.   I was friends with around 20 Mormons and knew there parents as well.  All of them were racist towards blacks, it is well known that Mormons have changed there tune towards blacks presently, but in the past were very racist.

A couple things. One, unless you yourself were a Mormon, you didn't go to a temple, at least not inside. And two, just because you knew racist Mormons doesn't mean Mormons are racist. I know lots and lots of racist Protestants too. Look into various Protestant denominations and you'll find that they too have a racist history. Christians used the Bible to justify slavery, believing that the descendants of Ham (Aftrican Americans) were cursed to forever be in servitude to others. The Southern Baptist church started because of their defense of Slavery. Does the LDS church have some racist elements in its past? Absolutely, and I'd never say otherwise. But racism is not unique to my church.

[Carey]

RE: Mormons are racist.

People who live in glass houses.....

The last gunslinger is a Mormon, is he a racist? 

Hammer you might want to reconsider your approach,   just sayin,

You might want to educate yourself about the history of Mormons, just sayin.

I know a bit about the history of Mormons with regard to racism.  I am also aware of a few racist actions that took place in mainstream Christian churches not all that long ago.  Sadly Joseph Smith in his day was far more accepting of blacks than many Christians of the day.  Hence the glass houses comment.

I abhor racism, part of that is an extreme distaste for comments such as the title of this thread.  Some Mormons may be racist, as are some mainstream Christians; is it then acceptable to say Christians are racist.  LDS Doctrine did include racist elements,  the doctrine of many churches did include racist elements;  is it then acceptable to say Christians are racist.

You have called all Mormons racist, now much as I consider LDS teaching as false, I do not think it appropriate to resort to such inflammatory name calling.  Maybe that is just me...



 

[hammer123]

RE: Mormons are racist.

People who live in glass houses.....

The last gunslinger is a Mormon, is he a racist? 

Hammer you might want to reconsider your approach,   just sayin,

You might want to educate yourself about the history of Mormons, just sayin.

I know a bit about the history of Mormons with regard to racism.  I am also aware of a few racist actions that took place in mainstream Christian churches not all that long ago.  Sadly Joseph Smith in his day was far more accepting of blacks than many Christians of the day.  Hence the glass houses comment.

I abhor racism, part of that is an extreme distaste for comments such as the title of this thread.  Some Mormons may be racist, as are some mainstream Christians; is it then acceptable to say Christians are racist.  LDS Doctrine did include racist elements,  the doctrine of many churches did include racist elements;  is it then acceptable to say Christians are racist.

You have called all Mormons racist, now much as I consider LDS teaching as false, I do not think it appropriate to resort to such inflammatory name calling.  Maybe that is just me...

Mormons have begun to denounce racsim due to outside pressures, but they have many verses in their literature clearly indicating their racist believes.  Instead of admitting it,they side step the issue and say those verse  are up for interpretation.

[Carey]

Mormons have begun to denounce racsim due to outside pressures, but they have many verses in their literature clearly indicating their racist believes.  Instead of admitting it,they side step the issue and say those verse  are up for interpretation.

Mormons "begun" to denounce racism in the late 70's;  only about a decade after many other churches did the same, and reinterpreted those verses used to justify their earlier racist stance.  However, I do see the verses you present as much more difficult to set aside and interpret in a non racist light.

My main motivation for stepping in here was the title of this thread, I will never be convinced it is appropriate.  And now I find myself fighting to justify LDS church doctrine.   

Here is an interesting article on the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/racism-and-the-mormon-church.html?_r=1&

[MeMyself]

Mormons have changed there tune towards blacks presently, but in the past were very racist.

and???

Hold the past against them forever?

[Carey]

Mormons have changed there tune towards blacks presently, but in the past were very racist.

and???

Hold the past against them forever?

And that is the thing.  I see over and over again the tactic of using some group's past to damage them currently, even as they repent.  The truth is there are skeletons in everyone's closet.

This runs contrary to what I see as a key component in our Christianity.   Our love and forgiveness of an adversary (not necessarily THE adversary) is our command.  When we recognize our own failings this becomes a much easier thing to do.

By all means we should address doctrine we see false, but we need do so with love and forgiveness, for these are the greatest tools at our disposal.