You don't think Religion is man made?

[grams]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

[winsome]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

I don't know, but just because some people have odd ideas does not mean that what the Catholic Church actually teaches is wrong.

Can we leave aside anecdotal evidence and "someone said" and stick to Catholic teaching.

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.

[grams]

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.       

Out dated ?     Why is it a sin ?   and then it is not ? 

Eat meat on Fri.  ?    Wear a hat ?    Go to confession ?

Tell me go ahead    "  I must have been dreaming all those years ?"

[Catholica]

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.       

Out dated ?     Why is it a sin ?   and then it is not ? 

Eat meat on Fri.  ?    Wear a hat ?    Go to confession ?

Tell me go ahead    "  I must have been dreaming all those years ?"

As a Catholic you were bound to the Church and it's disciplines. At that time chapel veiling was a discipline. So was abstaining from animal meat on Friday. The sin was being disobedient, not eating meat. Eating meat in itself is never inherently sinful. But purposefully violating discipline from God's established authority is.

The Church has been given the authority to bind and loose from God. It is a necessary authority for the governance of any people. The sin of disobeying real authority never changes. What that authority might require of us does. Which explains why some things are different now then they were then.

But I'm not sure that you really care to understand that. If you do, then God bless you for trying to understand.

[DaveW]

God made one religion: ancient tabernacle Judaism.

God also made one way to Himself" the death and resurrection of Messiah.

James says this:

James 1:27   Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

[LightHammer]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

[mclees8]

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.       

Out dated ?     Why is it a sin ?   and then it is not ? 

Eat meat on Fri.  ?    Wear a hat ?    Go to confession ?

Tell me go ahead    "  I must have been dreaming all those years ?"

As a Catholic you were bound to the Church and it's disciplines. At that time chapel veiling was a discipline. So was abstaining from animal meat on Friday. The sin was being disobedient, not eating meat. Eating meat in itself is never inherently sinful. But purposefully violating discipline from God's established authority is.

The Church has been given the authority to bind and loose from God. It is a necessary authority for the governance of any people. The sin of disobeying real authority never changes. What that authority might require of us does. Which explains why some things are different now then they were then.

But I'm not sure that you really care to understand that. If you do, then God bless you for trying to understand.

Beware of the false prophet who will be a champion of the church and its values sitting on a throne of power. Who will this man be and what should we look for? No false prophet sees himself as a false prophet but a doer of good and not evil. So will the church see him as a most godly man.  Both he and the man of Sin will be of great power and influence in the world religiously and politically. They both will seek world peace, morality religious unity, and posterity.  The church and the world today is ripe for this. These two men will be of one mind with like agendas.

[winsome]

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.       

Out dated ?     Why is it a sin ?   and then it is not ? 

Eat meat on Fri.  ?    Wear a hat ?    Go to confession ?

Tell me go ahead    "  I must have been dreaming all those years ?"

As a Catholic you were bound to the Church and it's disciplines. At that time chapel veiling was a discipline. So was abstaining from animal meat on Friday. The sin was being disobedient, not eating meat. Eating meat in itself is never inherently sinful. But purposefully violating discipline from God's established authority is.

The Church has been given the authority to bind and loose from God. It is a necessary authority for the governance of any people. The sin of disobeying real authority never changes. What that authority might require of us does. Which explains why some things are different now then they were then.

But I'm not sure that you really care to understand that. If you do, then God bless you for trying to understand.

Beware of the false prophet who will be a champion of the church and its values sitting on a throne of power. Who will this man be and what should we look for? No false prophet sees himself as a false prophet but a doer of good and not evil. So will the church see him as a most godly man.  Both he and the man of Sin will be of great power and influence in the world religiously and politically. They both will seek world peace, morality religious unity, and posterity.  The church and the world today is ripe for this. These two men will be of one mind with like agendas.

So saith mclees. Well thanks for your opinion.

[grams]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

You have no answer so you think name calling will stop this ?

I have been asking question of the Catholic faith, hoping things have changed for the better !   I guess not. 
You think I am lying about what my then Catholic church had been doing all those years ago ?   

[LightHammer]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

You have no answer so you think name calling will stop this ?

I have been asking question of the Catholic faith, hoping things have changed for the better !   I guess not. 
You think I am lying about what my then Catholic church had been doing all those years ago ?   

The answer? Its been given to you a thousand times over. You just don't listen very well.

[Lively Stone]

Of course practices grow up - some good, some that get distorted, some that become outdated, but that does not invalidate religion.       

Out dated ?     Why is it a sin ?   and then it is not ? 

Eat meat on Fri.  ?    Wear a hat ?    Go to confession ?

Tell me go ahead    "  I must have been dreaming all those years ?"

As a Catholic you were bound to the Church and it's disciplines. At that time chapel veiling was a discipline. So was abstaining from animal meat on Friday. The sin was being disobedient, not eating meat. Eating meat in itself is never inherently sinful. But purposefully violating discipline from God's established authority is.

The Church has been given the authority to bind and loose from God. It is a necessary authority for the governance of any people. The sin of disobeying real authority never changes. What that authority might require of us does. Which explains why some things are different now then they were then.

But I'm not sure that you really care to understand that. If you do, then God bless you for trying to understand.

As a born again Christian no one is bound by anything. We are free in Christ. No organized religion that calls itself THE CHURCH has power over anyone. The only discipline need to conform to is God's will for our individual lives, which is communicated to us by His word.

[Ladonia]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

You have no answer so you think name calling will stop this ?

I have been asking question of the Catholic faith, hoping things have changed for the better !   I guess not. 
You think I am lying about what my then Catholic church had been doing all those years ago ?   

The answer? Its been given to you a thousand times over. You just don't listen very well.

Very true LH. Take the Holy Eucharist for example. You can quote verbatim from the Holy Scriptures that the Eucharist is indeed the real body and blood of Christ, you can quote the Early Church Fathers from the 1st century (St Iraneus), you can point out that for hundreds upon hundreds of years this is what every Christian believed - yet our friend in Christ, a former Catholic no less, rejects this reality in toto! She does not want to LISTEN to the truth and instead insists on following some new fangled interprtation of the Holy Writ.

[Catholica]

I have been asking question of the Catholic faith, hoping things have changed for the better !

grams have you had a chance to try to understand what I wrote to you above?

[Swiss_Guard]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

You need to ask? ;)

[Lively Stone]

Man made religion.
I came from that !  I now believe in Gods word I read from my bible !

Let me give you a quick example, and I do have a lot!  one for now.

Communion !

The nuns and priest told us back then we could not touch the communion "wafer"
! 
"we were told some one did and it bleed  at the touch..........."

Now a days does that sound dumb ?

And some one chewed the wafer !   And it also bleed !

 
I would say that was mans ideas !  WHY ?

Are you illiterate?

You need to ask? ;)

Wow.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/general-discussion-forum/try-to-be-nice!/msg1054814202/#msg1054814202

[Black KnightMI]

As a born again Christian no one is bound by anything. We are free in Christ. No organized religion that calls itself THE CHURCH has power over anyone. The only discipline need to conform to is God's will for our individual lives, which is communicated to us by His word.

But is this what the New Testament teaches?
Let's see...

Matthew 18 [15] But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.[16] And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. [17] And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. [18] Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. [19] Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning any thing whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven. [20] For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

[Black KnightMI]

Yeah Grams...in case you never heard it before. Individual priests and nuns are not infallible teachers so what you allege to have been taught can be wrong since it is not church teaching.

However, you'd do well to read  and prayerfully consider the following article from my blog. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

[grams]

Yeah Grams...in case you never heard it before. Individual priests and nuns are not infallible teachers so what you allege to have been taught can be wrong since it is not church teaching.

However, you'd do well to read  and prayerfully consider the following article from my blog. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

But it was church teaching back then !   And I found out that all the churches around here were the same !
Not one time do I remember any one telling me to open up a bible.
Never.
How do you learn from a prayer book ?
And the nuns teaching most of the time about Saints.
There is one difference.  They were not all Polish Churches.
What do you learn at a Mass that is all Polish  or Latin ?
They did wrong in those day's, and I am very happy to learn they now use a bible.

[Black KnightMI]

But it was church teaching back then !   And I found out that all the churches around here were the same !

No, actually it wasn't. There is no such documentation and authoritative teaching to that effect.

Not one time do I remember any one telling me to open up a bible.
Never.

Every Mass you attended taught you straight from the Bible, and always has.  The Liturgy of the Word contains a reading from the Old Testament, a responsoral Psalm, a New Testament reading, and a reading from the Gospels. If you missed the Bible then you weren't paying attention. (I know that there was a time when I didn't.) My Testimony

How do you learn from a prayer book ?

Funny you should mention that because I was just thinking about that tonight and gave praise to God for being Catholic and having so many great prayers that put into words things I want to say to Him far better than I ever can. The Anima Christi for example:

Soul of Christ, sanctify me
Body of Christ, save me
Blood of Christ, inebriate me
Water from Christ's side, wash me
Passion of Christ, strengthen me
O good Jesus, hear me
Within Thy wounds hide me
Suffer me not to be separated from Thee
From the malicious enemy defend me
In the hour of my death call me
And bid me come unto Thee
That I may praise Thee with Thy saints
and with Thy angels
Forever and ever
Amen

And the nuns teaching most of the time about Saints.

That's not really much different than the Acts of the Apostles which teach us about the apostles and saints. Besides, how better can one relate to Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ than to see and hear how he changed the lives of those who took up their cross daily and followed him? Isn't that pretty much the same thing that n-Cs do when they give testimonies and witness about their faith?

There is one difference.  They were not all Polish Churches.
What do you learn at a Mass that is all Polish  or Latin ?

What? You didn't simply take up one of the missals that were in every pew and follow along? Every Latin missal I ever saw had the English right there opposite. Every single one... If I didn't follow along, it was my own fault, not the Church's.

As for foreign language Masses...if the community was Polish, the Mass was too, or Italian, or Irish, or Native American, so how is that different from attending any n-C service in a Spanish community where it's all in that language...and how is that wrong?

They did wrong in those day's, and I am very happy to learn they now use a bible.

I disagree. I believe that you messed up on a lot of things  and have apparently allowed yourself to proselytized away from the Catholic faith and then accepted some anti-Catholic propaganda about what you think you were taught. I never saw anything wrong done in the Church when I was a kid, but I grew up in the deep South  and I knew of a lot of wrong done to us Catholics just because we were Catholic. Some of our priests and religious were even murdered for being Catholic.

As for using the Bible; the Church has always encouraged us to read it. Note the following, which dates back to when I was a kid.
2.  Are Catholics forbidden to read the Bible?

By no means; on the contrary, all Catholics are urged to read the Bible.

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Furthermore, note the following from the current Compendium Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Sacred Scripture

18. Why does Sacred Scripture teach the truth?105-108
135-136Because God himself is the author of Sacred Scripture. For this reason it is said to be inspired and to teach without error those truths which are necessary for our salvation. The Holy Spirit inspired the human authors who wrote what he wanted to teach us. The Christian faith, however, is not a "religion of the Book", but of the Word of God – "not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living" (Saint Bernard of Clairvaux).
19. How is Sacred Scripture to be read?109-119
137 Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted with the help of the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the Magisterium of the Church according to three criteria: 1) it must be read with attention to the content and unity of the whole ofScripture; 2) it must be read within the living Tradition of the Church; 3) it must be read with attention to the analogy of faith, that is, the inner harmony which exists among the truths of the faith themselves.  

24. What role does Sacred Scripture play in the life of the Church? 131-133
141-142Sacred Scripture gives support and vigor to the life of the Church. For the children of the Church, it is a confirmation of the faith, food for the soul and the fount of the spiritual life. Sacred Scripture is the soul of theology and of pastoral preaching. The Psalmist says that it is "a lamp to my feet and a light to my path" (Psalm 119:105). The Church, therefore, exhorts all to read Sacred Scripture frequently because "ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ" (Saint Jerome).God's peace Grams.

[Lively Stone]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

[grams]

Quote from: grams on Yesterday at 02:59:23 PM

But it was church teaching back then !   And I found out that all the churches around here were the same !


No, actually it wasn't. There is no such documentation and authoritative teaching to that effect.

Were you there ?  [ you cant tell me what I saw ! or heard ! ]
The only bible I saw was on the alter.   And I only saw the out side so how do I even know what it was? And the priest told us it  was in Latin.

There is one difference.  They were not all Polish Churches.
What do you learn at a Mass that is all Polish  or Latin ?


What? You didn't simply take up one of the missals that were in every pew and follow along? Every Latin missal I ever saw had the English right there opposite. Every single one... If I didn't follow along, it was my own fault, not the Church's.

There was no missal or any books !
I went to the church till my 50's.  And it was the same all those years.
It has now changed in the last 10 years.
So I was not a child, and am telling the truth .
Glad your church was better then mine.  But you would be surprised at a lot more things that went on  here..........

[DaveW]

Man made religion.

Really?

Whose Idea was the ancient Israelite religion?  The Tabernacle?  The feast days?

Are they not "religion?" and were they not prescribed by God Himself?

James describes "religion" as taking care of orphans and widows and not being stained by sin.  Is that manmade or of God?

[Black KnightMI]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

BTW Grams, where exactly was this church that you went to as a kid?

[mclees8]

Yeah Grams...in case you never heard it before. Individual priests and nuns are not infallible teachers so what you allege to have been taught can be wrong since it is not church teaching.

However, you'd do well to read  and prayerfully consider the following article from my blog. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

Your blog?   All this is a matter of interpritation. It has nothing to with the law. It has everything to with the spirit in which one goes to the Lords table. If one beleives it is changed or if one beleives it is symbolic The lord knows the heart of the believer. Let all be done in spirit and ion truth or do you condemmn other by your law.

[Lively Stone]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

We must be like Christ, who was well-versed in scripture. That is how we get to know Jesus Christ and how we hear from Holy Spirit about how to follow Him. The word of God is our bread that is our spiritual food. Jesus was well-versed in scripture and every man of God from the beginning was a student of the written word. We should be NO LESS.

Joshua 1:8
Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.



What was good for Jesus is just as good for us. Can you count how many times Jesus said, "Have you not read the scriptures...?" He said it A LOT! Jesus used the word of God to defeat Satan in the wilderness. He didn't need anything else. That is how powerful and sufficient it is. We don't need anything else, either.

2 Timothy 2:15 (AMP)
Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

Anyone who claims Christ and is not regularly devouring the word of God is a wimpy Christian and is not outfitting himself in the full armour of God---which is disobedience.

Ephesians 6:11-17
Put on all of God's armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. 12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

13 Therefore, put on every piece of God's armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14 Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God's righteousness. 15 For shoes, put on the peace that comes from the Good News so that you will be fully prepared. 16 In addition to all of these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrows of the devil. 17 Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

We don't need them.

[FireSword]

Man made religion.

Really?

Whose Idea was the ancient Israelite religion?  The Tabernacle?  The feast days?

Are they not "religion?" and were they not prescribed by God Himself?

James describes "religion" as taking care of orphans and widows and not being stained by sin.  Is that manmade or of God?

If I may interject and say that James actually used the word #"pure" religion is this'
The apostle Paul used the word religion in a negative sense, by calling the Jews religion, as a different religion in a sense to his own religion. I'm not talking about the law and whether the old covenant law of Moses was a ploy by God to lure the Jews to Christ, who was of the faithfull Abrahamic blessings covenant of faith.

[HRoberson]

Of course religion is man made. It's simply an expression of what we think God tells us.

Sometimes God is very specific; sometimes not so much.

[Black KnightMI]

Yeah Grams...in case you never heard it before. Individual priests and nuns are not infallible teachers so what you allege to have been taught can be wrong since it is not church teaching.

However, you'd do well to read  and prayerfully consider the following article from my blog. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

Your blog?   All this is a matter of interpritation. It has nothing to with the law. It has everything to with the spirit in which one goes to the Lords table. If one beleives it is changed or if one beleives it is symbolic The lord knows the heart of the believer. Let all be done in spirit and ion truth or do you condemmn other by your law.

The problem is when someone's interpretation does not agree with both the context of the Word of God (which I have been careful to include in full in the article/study) and the clear writings of the earliest church fathers, who received their teaching directly from the apostles themselves.  Which I have also included in the article.

There is nothing in any of all those passages that indicates a symbolic concept in the Eucharist. That is a thoroughly modern concept that is no more than 500 years old at best. If that's the case, then that, and not the Catholic Real Presence is the innovation of religions of men. I don't have to condemn anyone.  The Holy Spirit is quite capable dealing with such things, just as He has for all of history.

[mclees8]

Man made religion.

Really?

Whose Idea was the ancient Israelite religion?  The Tabernacle?  The feast days?

Are they not "religion?" and were they not prescribed by God Himself?

James describes "religion" as taking care of orphans and widows and not being stained by sin.  Is that manmade or of God?

If I may interject and say that James actually used the word #"pure" religion is this'
The apostle Paul used the word religion in a negative sense, by calling the Jews religion, as a different religion in a sense to his own religion. I'm not talking about the law and whether the old covenant law of Moses was a ploy by God to lure the Jews to Christ, who was of the faithfull Abrahamic blessings covenant of faith.

Religion   re•li•gion
rɪˈlɪdʒ ənShow Spelled [ri-lij-uh  n] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


Why do many Christians seem to reject the idea of the word religion as describing their faith. There are many religions in the world. In definition it is a worship or a belief in something or someone that represents a higher authority such as a god or many gods. Religious historians would say that Christianity is not unlike many religions having similarities like one who has gone away but is supposed to return.
Is Jesus just religion?. What Makes Jesus unique over all other faiths and beliefs. I think it is obvious because He identifies with creation itself. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.   John1:1-4   Jesus said before Abraham was I was. Jesus identifies with all that is perfection in order and design. The very heavens are in aw of Him. So if religion is worship and all outside of Christ is a lie where is religion.

There can only be one truth . Jesus said I am the truth, meaning  the highest form of truth. Not as truth as we see it such as one who tells the truth or tells a lie.  In the Lords truth there is no other truth. So even the worlds idea of truth is lie. 

[mclees8]

Yeah Grams...in case you never heard it before. Individual priests and nuns are not infallible teachers so what you allege to have been taught can be wrong since it is not church teaching.

However, you'd do well to read  and prayerfully consider the following article from my blog. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

Your blog?   All this is a matter of interpritation. It has nothing to with the law. It has everything to with the spirit in which one goes to the Lords table. If one beleives it is changed or if one beleives it is symbolic The lord knows the heart of the believer. Let all be done in spirit and ion truth or do you condemmn other by your law.

The problem is when someone's interpretation does not agree with both the context of the Word of God (which I have been careful to include in full in the article/study) and the clear writings of the earliest church fathers, who received their teaching directly from the apostles themselves.  Which I have also included in the article.

There is nothing in any of all those passages that indicates a symbolic concept in the Eucharist. That is a thoroughly modern concept that is no more than 500 years old at best. If that's the case, then that, and not the Catholic Real Presence is the innovation of religions of men. I don't have to condemn anyone.  The Holy Spirit is quite capable dealing with such things, just as He has for all of history.

Many Who love Christ from the heart and walk in the spirit will disagree with younon that
So what you are trying to say is that you are only allowed to believe as you beleive and if one does not believe and prescribe to the order ofyour  belief than they are condemned. I will have no reservation at all in saying that is a lie from Hell.  the Holy spirit is quite capable and let christ be the judge

[FireSword]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

BTW Grams, where exactly was this church that you went to as a kid?

Those who could not read, heard it via the preaching of the word of God. Today we have the privelage of easilly affording the holy scriptures and millions are given away free buy charitable Christians.

With one billion catholics, the world would be a better place if they read their bible, but they are not and the countries where they dominate often are the first to employ typical antichristian policies.

[LightHammer]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

BTW Grams, where exactly was this church that you went to as a kid?

Those who could not read, heard it via the preaching of the word of God. Today we have the privelage of easilly affording the holy scriptures and millions are given away free buy charitable Christians.

With one billion catholics, the world would be a better place if they read their bible, but they are not and the countries where they dominate often are the first to employ typical antichristian policies.

Yea Lutheran-dominated Nazi Germany, Mao-dominated Communist China, Athiest-dominated Stalin Russia were all great examples.

[Ladonia]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

BTW Grams, where exactly was this church that you went to as a kid?

Those who could not read, heard it via the preaching of the word of God. Today we have the privelage of easilly affording the holy scriptures and millions are given away free buy charitable Christians.

With one billion catholics, the world would be a better place if they read their bible, but they are not and the countries where they dominate often are the first to employ typical antichristian policies.

We get the  Bible at every Mass - the Old Testament, the New Testament, and Christ on Calvary. Even a blind person can experience the Holy Writ just by attending.

[FireSword]

We get the  Bible at every Mass - the Old Testament, the New Testament, and Christ on Calvary. Even a blind person can experience the Holy Writ just by attending

So if its not a lack of scripture, why else is the RCc such a mess and in a worse state than most independent churches with little resources.

[AVZ]

3.  Besides ordinary benefits, what do those gain who read portions of the Bible every day?

"A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture.  A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour." (Enchiridion of Indulgences.  Authorized English edition.  1969.  Catholic Book Publishers.  New York.  Page 68.  # 50)

Wow. That is a bad answer, indeed, and is a very strong indication of religion's stronghold on works.

The real answer is that a person who gets into the word daily gets to know God more and more, and gains wisdom and knowledge.

No faithful Catholic will argue that we need to read the Bible. But where in the Bible does it say that anyone must read it every day or must read it in order to be saved?

If that is true, the what about all the years between  Our Lord's ascension and the writing of the 1st New Testament documents which was some 25 or so years later?  What about those illiterate, who cannot read at all back then and even today?

Then Bible does not tell us that we must read it, yet all faithful Christians love it and read it, which is as it should be. But I know of know scripture that tells us it is sinful not to do so.

As for the indulgence it is simply a measure to help encourage Catholics to do what they should be doing. It is part of the binding and loosing aspect of the Church, which is quite scriptural.

BTW Grams, where exactly was this church that you went to as a kid?

Nowhere in the Bible is it mentioned that one should attend church once a week, or twice, or once a month...
Still we do attend because we know that Jesus did, and He is our example.
If we follow His example, we would also study Gods Word diligently.

But, that is hardly the point here.
The RCC is well aware that reading and studying the Bible is a good thing and you rightfully acknowledge so.
As all good things the church is supposed to encourage her members to keep the good.

Yet, the RCC does exactly the opposite and discourages her members from studying or reading the Bible.

This is inconsistent and finds its origin in times where the RCC was seeking power and control rather than spiritual enlightenment.
But since the RCC has decided for herself that she can never be wrong, it is very hard to turn around and tell her members that she was wrong.

The other danger of course is that members of the RCC may accidentially start developing a personal relationship with Christ.
And that would mean that the church and papacy will take a second place, obviously not to the benefit of the RCC.