Sinning brother-in-law

[DrT]

DrT:

I'm so sorry about your families grief.  Thank you for the empathy.

The doctor tells him to leave them be, and allow them their own space so they can come to terms with what happened.  Yes

Now he wants to home school them for 2 days a week so he can count that towards his time with them - so he can lower his support payment.  Is that what you are saying?  that is exactly what I am saying :(

Sadly, children do catch on to that.  Additionally, court systems seem to feel its acceptable.  They don't see the 'being used' part, but quality time with the parent.  The court system is a bit screwy, and people have been screaming for it to be reformed for years.  There just is no common sense to it.  Little time is devoted to decisions, because the resources just aren't there.  Everyone suffers in the end it seems.  Hannah, you seem very knowledgeable about these things.  You are correct with each point  The court is all about both parents having contact with the children no matter what.  The attorney told my SIL, "most dad's do not stay around so when the father is around they court wants them to have as much contact as possible.  Here in CA, they are all irreconcilable differences.  "No big deal about infidelity. 

From what I read (every area is a bit different) children of a certain age do have some power over how they want to spend time with the other parent.  Some places start at 13 - other areas are older.  I know that won't stop it from happening with the younger children, but its a start.   Your SIL needs to think of his contributions towards college, and extra's such as sports, theater, etc.  How their schedule must take priority over the parent's.  Otherwise, they will do without those extras completely.  They tend to do the scheduling part - overriding the parent's - due to the fact those schedules are fixed.   The children have to have the courage to speak for themselves, and some won't have that courage - due to feeling they are in middle of this mess.  Can't blame them there!  They want to love and please both adults even though they truly have no clue overall as to the dynamics - as it should in some realms.  again correct.  You are very attuned to what the children are gong through, how they might respond, and being stuck in the middle.  You have good words about "speaking up" if they are able.

You have to wonder HOW he can afford losing two full days of work each week to home school.  I mean is he planning on doing it in the evening?This man has been a workaholic for years, cares about money, and is having his first night with the kids at their house overnight.  One son, age 13 is here tonight, 2 are with their grandmother with my SIL while he is there with the other 6 young children.  The 5 little ones will stay in their beds tonight and the baby will need to be picked up by my SIL so she can nurse at night.

I would hope that 'home schooling' part eats up some of his intimate times with his 'friend', and helps him to come to his senses.  hahaha, you are right!Although at this point he has caused a ton of damage already.  he has  and it is despicable!

Keep in mind it may not seem like it now, but your strength during this time helps everyone.  That is true.

HannaT, thank you very much for your wise words.   

[p.progress]

What to do? The steps are laid out what to do in these cases.

Since he professes faith in God - claims to be a believer ("if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or..."), he is then subject to being judged for such obvious unrepentant sins.

In Matthew 18, Christ gives us his instructions to carry out against "such an one". In Paul's letter to the saints in Corinth (1Cor. 5), the apostle gives further insight into this process. In addition, Paul brings to light the spiritual dynamic that we are to trust God will being to bear in the event the professing individual choosing to continue in their sin and rebellion. I believe and am certain, if truly God fearing assemblies would just simply DO just (follow through) what is laid out in these passages; we would see the faithfulness of God's part to turn these offenders over to Satan to suffer what God allows the Enemy to carry out for his own - ultimately - redemptive purposes.

But unfortunately, it is a very rare thing to witness those involved in such groups (who call themselves 'churches'), simply carrying out what the Lord instructed and required to be done.

But I repeat: If this man was involved with such an assembly of sincerely devout, obedient and savvy believers, who understand the blessings of God's remedy for believers who are determined to sin - who for whatever reason, have become bound in sin; an assembly, who WILL and DO carry out to the full what is commanded of them in such circumstances...and do so in a redemptive manner:
"And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother."

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

Then I believe God would/will faithfully bring the necessary physical suffering and affliction into that persons life, for the purpose of causing them to 'rethink'/'reconsider' (repent of) the decisions they made which lead to them being so sorely chastened.

Let him know at the end of the process - if he is determined to continue in sin, and rejects walking the road of sorrow towards repentance - that you (all together as one body) are trusting God to NOT allow him to continue therein unhindered. God is able to humble his wickedly deluded heart. 
 
p.progress

[chosenone]

I think its SO important that none of the kids are forced to spend time with him if they are so unhappy about it .There must be a way that they can say clearly they do not want to see him.

[chosenone]

What to do? The steps are laid out what to do in these cases.

Since he professes faith in God - claims to be a believer ("if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or..."), he is then subject to being judged for such obvious unrepentant sins.

In Matthew 18, Christ gives us his instructions to carry out against "such an one". In Paul's letter to the saints in Corinth (1Cor. 5), the apostle gives further insight into this process. In addition, Paul brings to light the spiritual dynamic that we are to trust God will being to bear in the event the professing individual choosing to continue in their sin and rebellion. I believe and am certain, if truly God fearing assemblies would just simply DO just (follow through) what is laid out in these passages; we would see the faithfulness of God's part to turn these offenders over to Satan to suffer what God allows the Enemy to carry out for his own - ultimately - redemptive purposes.

But unfortunately, it is a very rare thing to witness those involved in such groups (who call themselves 'churches'), simply carrying out what the Lord instructed and required to be done.

But I repeat: If this man was involved with such an assembly of sincerely devout, obedient and savvy believers, who understand the blessings of God's remedy for believers who are determined to sin - who for whatever reason, have become bound in sin; an assembly, who WILL and DO carry out to the full what is commanded of them in such circumstances...and do so in a redemptive manner:
"And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother."

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

Then I believe God would/will faithfully bring the necessary physical suffering and affliction into that persons life, for the purpose of causing them to 'rethink'/'reconsider' (repent of) the decisions they made which lead to them being so sorely chastened.

Let him know at the end of the process - if he is determined to continue in sin, and rejects walking the road of sorrow towards repentance - that you (all together as one body) are trusting God to NOT allow him to continue therein unhindered. God is able to humble his wickedly deluded heart. 
 
p.progress

The man HAS been Biblically challenged by others including the pastor. He apparently said that she is worth it. Stupid stupid man.

[TJW]

Stupid stupid man
his wickedly deluded heart

I have watched a couple of these scenarios unfold over the years.  The men are, today, quite sorry for what they did.  The OW was gone after a year or two, destroying another family.   And they are left with trying to be an absentee father while their former wife wants nothing to do with them anymore.

The really sad thing is that they seem to continue in spite of being able to accurately predict their consequences.  Both these guys knew I was right about the future they would have.  It was as if they just didn't care. 

The lure of the respect and admiration they got from the OW was powerful.  In one case,  when wife was gone, and OW became wife, there was no more "fuel" for her "fire".  OW turned out to be a scolding, emasculating shrew who "won", a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 

[HannahT]

I think its SO important that none of the kids are forced to spend time with him if they are so unhappy about it .There must be a way that they can say clearly they do not want to see him.

That's the thing Chosenone.  There isn't a way most of the time.  If she (his SIL) goes against court order's, and keeps the children away even at their request?  She could be charged, or he could claim parental alienation.   Either way she is in hot water, and it could get ugly.  I have read about many cases where they then take the children away from her permanently, and place them in his care full time.

The children truly have no say in all of this.  The court seems to have some formula they tend to stick with, and they don't have time in court to go into all the dynamics of the broken family.  An article I read recently stated most courts have about 6 minutes per case on average.  Your in and out fairly quickly.  They don't have time to mess around with details.  It's also very costly to go to trial, and most people can't afford that.  You can get more details in, but you have afford a second mortgage payment to pay for it as well.  Most people don't have that extra cash.

CA stinks as far as child support goes IMO.  I have an online friend in that state, and her X is behind over $50,000 in child support.  They take his license, and he drives without one.  The last time he paid $5 at the court house to show 'good faith', and got his license back.  I get the impression he feels now that the oldest turned of age, and the youngest will within a year?  The state will write if off, because they aren't children anymore.  I don't see that happening, but I can understand why he feels that way.  They have enabled him to not pay so far.

The system makes no sense at all, and everyone gets to pay the price.  They use the same system for everyone, and gender, race, color, etc doesn't matter either.  They stick to the formula, and that's it.

Someone pointed to out to me a tv program they presented with 'adult' children growing up in this system, and they spoke about how it effected them.  They all had different circumstances, and they all played out the same way.  They want to work towards reform, but no doubt it will take YEARS to do that.

This 'best interest of the child' deal seems to be joke - unless of course your circumstances fits the formula.

[DrT]

What to do? The steps are laid out what to do in these cases.

Since he professes faith in God - claims to be a believer ("if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or..."), he is then subject to being judged for such obvious unrepentant sins.

In Matthew 18, Christ gives us his instructions to carry out against "such an one". In Paul's letter to the saints in Corinth (1Cor. 5), the apostle gives further insight into this process. In addition, Paul brings to light the spiritual dynamic that we are to trust God will being to bear in the event the professing individual choosing to continue in their sin and rebellion. I believe and am certain, if truly God fearing assemblies would just simply DO just (follow through) what is laid out in these passages; we would see the faithfulness of God's part to turn these offenders over to Satan to suffer what God allows the Enemy to carry out for his own - ultimately - redemptive purposes.

But unfortunately, it is a very rare thing to witness those involved in such groups (who call themselves 'churches'), simply carrying out what the Lord instructed and required to be done.

But I repeat: If this man was involved with such an assembly of sincerely devout, obedient and savvy believers, who understand the blessings of God's remedy for believers who are determined to sin - who for whatever reason, have become bound in sin; an assembly, who WILL and DO carry out to the full what is commanded of them in such circumstances...and do so in a redemptive manner:
"And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother."

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

Then I believe God would/will faithfully bring the necessary physical suffering and affliction into that persons life, for the purpose of causing them to 'rethink'/'reconsider' (repent of) the decisions they made which lead to them being so sorely chastened.

Let him know at the end of the process - if he is determined to continue in sin, and rejects walking the road of sorrow towards repentance - that you (all together as one body) are trusting God to NOT allow him to continue therein unhindered. God is able to humble his wickedly deluded heart. 
 
p.progress

Great post progress. Thank you for the reminder.  We have followed the example set in scripture.  I like the reminder of letting it play out lovingly to bring him back to God.  We are trying.

[DrT]

Stupid stupid man
his wickedly deluded heart

I have watched a couple of these scenarios unfold over the years.  The men are, today, quite sorry for what they did.  The OW was gone after a year or two, destroying another family.   And they are left with trying to be an absentee father while their former wife wants nothing to do with them anymore.

The really sad thing is that they seem to continue in spite of being able to accurately predict their consequences.  Both these guys knew I was right about the future they would have.  It was as if they just didn't care. 

The lure of the respect and admiration they got from the OW was powerful.  In one case,  when wife was gone, and OW became wife, there was no more "fuel" for her "fire".  OW turned out to be a scolding, emasculating shrew who "won", a wolf in sheep's clothing.

TJW,
Sorry you had to watch this happen in the past.  I really don't see that new relationship working and it is so sad there has to be casualties along the way.  :(

[DrT]

I think its SO important that none of the kids are forced to spend time with him if they are so unhappy about it .There must be a way that they can say clearly they do not want to see him.

That's the thing Chosenone.  There isn't a way most of the time.  If she (his SIL) goes against court order's, and keeps the children away even at their request?  She could be charged, or he could claim parental alienation.   Either way she is in hot water, and it could get ugly.  I have read about many cases where they then take the children away from her permanently, and place them in his care full time.

The children truly have no say in all of this.  The court seems to have some formula they tend to stick with, and they don't have time in court to go into all the dynamics of the broken family.  An article I read recently stated most courts have about 6 minutes per case on average.  Your in and out fairly quickly.  They don't have time to mess around with details.  It's also very costly to go to trial, and most people can't afford that.  You can get more details in, but you have afford a second mortgage payment to pay for it as well.  Most people don't have that extra cash.

CA stinks as far as child support goes IMO.  I have an online friend in that state, and her X is behind over $50,000 in child support.  They take his license, and he drives without one.  The last time he paid $5 at the court house to show 'good faith', and got his license back.  I get the impression he feels now that the oldest turned of age, and the youngest will within a year?  The state will write if off, because they aren't children anymore.  I don't see that happening, but I can understand why he feels that way.  They have enabled him to not pay so far.

The system makes no sense at all, and everyone gets to pay the price.  They use the same system for everyone, and gender, race, color, etc doesn't matter either.  They stick to the formula, and that's it.

Someone pointed to out to me a tv program they presented with 'adult' children growing up in this system, and they spoke about how it effected them.  They all had different circumstances, and they all played out the same way.  They want to work towards reform, but no doubt it will take YEARS to do that.

This 'best interest of the child' deal seems to be joke - unless of course your circumstances fits the formula.

Wow, that would be horrible if they took the kids away.  :(  My SIL keeps saying, "I cant keep going."  We've been watching her for safety, praying and educating her.  She is having an extremely hard time and her husband said last night, "I know what I can do to make everything better for the kids and Andrea but I'm not willing to do it."  How COLD is that?

[Lively Stone]

DrT~

Why do you think your brother-in-law hates his wife so much?

[chosenone]

Stupid stupid man
his wickedly deluded heart

I have watched a couple of these scenarios unfold over the years.  The men are, today, quite sorry for what they did.  The OW was gone after a year or two, destroying another family.   And they are left with trying to be an absentee father while their former wife wants nothing to do with them anymore.

The really sad thing is that they seem to continue in spite of being able to accurately predict their consequences.  Both these guys knew I was right about the future they would have.  It was as if they just didn't care. 

The lure of the respect and admiration they got from the OW was powerful.  In one case,  when wife was gone, and OW became wife, there was no more "fuel" for her "fire".  OW turned out to be a scolding, emasculating shrew who "won", a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 

Yep that's what happens .I have seen it happen with many couples who I know (or have known). I suppose each man/women who acts so badly like this hopes that their affair/relationship will last. My husbands ex wives affair (which she divorced him over), lasted barely a year. She is still alone 8 years later. The grass isn't greener on the other side, and this new woman will struggle to deal with his first family issues, him spending so much time with his kids, him spending so much money for their maintenance, especially if they go on to have their own children as well as her own two. No marriage that started with cheating lying and deception will be blessed or happy. They are heading for heartache and trouble, because in the end we reap what we sow.
Any woman who can live with doing what she is, has no integrity or moral values at all. She will not be a good wife.

[chosenone]

I think its SO important that none of the kids are forced to spend time with him if they are so unhappy about it .There must be a way that they can say clearly they do not want to see him.

That's the thing Chosenone.  There isn't a way most of the time.  If she (his SIL) goes against court order's, and keeps the children away even at their request?  She could be charged, or he could claim parental alienation.   Either way she is in hot water, and it could get ugly.  I have read about many cases where they then take the children away from her permanently, and place them in his care full time.

The children truly have no say in all of this.  The court seems to have some formula they tend to stick with, and they don't have time in court to go into all the dynamics of the broken family.  An article I read recently stated most courts have about 6 minutes per case on average.  Your in and out fairly quickly.  They don't have time to mess around with details.  It's also very costly to go to trial, and most people can't afford that.  You can get more details in, but you have afford a second mortgage payment to pay for it as well.  Most people don't have that extra cash.

CA stinks as far as child support goes IMO.  I have an online friend in that state, and her X is behind over $50,000 in child support.  They take his license, and he drives without one.  The last time he paid $5 at the court house to show 'good faith', and got his license back.  I get the impression he feels now that the oldest turned of age, and the youngest will within a year?  The state will write if off, because they aren't children anymore.  I don't see that happening, but I can understand why he feels that way.  They have enabled him to not pay so far.

The system makes no sense at all, and everyone gets to pay the price.  They use the same system for everyone, and gender, race, color, etc doesn't matter either.  They stick to the formula, and that's it.

Someone pointed to out to me a tv program they presented with 'adult' children growing up in this system, and they spoke about how it effected them.  They all had different circumstances, and they all played out the same way.  They want to work towards reform, but no doubt it will take YEARS to do that.

This 'best interest of the child' deal seems to be joke - unless of course your circumstances fits the formula.

Wow, that would be horrible if they took the kids away.  :(  My SIL keeps saying, "I cant keep going."  We've been watching her for safety, praying and educating her.  She is having an extremely hard time and her husband said last night, "I know what I can do to make everything better for the kids and Andrea but I'm not willing to do it."  How COLD is that?

Cold and very selfish. Its all about 'me me me' and what' I' want.
I used to feel the way she did, (I cant keep going), but she will because she has children depending on her. Millions of people deal with such awful situations every day. It will get better in time, its very early days. She has a supportive family and I am sure those at her church are being supportive as well. Thats a great blessing.

[DrT]

DrT~

Why do you think your brother-in-law hates his wife so much?

He seems to despise her right now.  Their marriage was not perfect as none are.  He has been addicted to pornography for years and years but he was in an accountability group for many of them and he reports that's "not a problem anymore."  She is very demanding and spends money like crazy.  Those are some of the issues he says he's leaving.  The new woman is younger and very pretty and nice.  Satan is doing is work to pull him down and away from God.  He now believes what he is telling himself about that girl being "worth it" and thinks his older daughters will help take care of the little ones while he sleeps.  My SIL said he "never wakes up with the kids ever."  That are some of the reasons I guess. 

[chosenone]

DrT~

Why do you think your brother-in-law hates his wife so much?

He seems to despise her right now.  Their marriage was not perfect as none are.  He has been addicted to pornography for years and years but he was in an accountability group for many of them and he reports that's "not a problem anymore."  She is very demanding and spends money like crazy.  Those are some of the issues he says he's leaving.  The new woman is younger and very pretty and nice.  Satan is doing is work to pull him down and away from God.  He now believes what he is telling himself about that girl being "worth it" and thinks his older daughters will help take care of the little ones while he sleeps.  My SIL said he "never wakes up with the kids ever."  That are some of the reasons I guess. 

So there were serious problems, and having 9 kids must be a big strain on any marriage. I mean how do you ever get any time to just be the two of you??? Ripe for satan to get in there and destroy, as he loves to do.
I suspect the ow will end up haing to look after his little kids when they come and stay, which I doubt she will be pleased about, but thats what you get when you have a relationship with a man who has 9 kids.

[DrT]

DrT~

Why do you think your brother-in-law hates his wife so much?

He seems to despise her right now.  Their marriage was not perfect as none are.  He has been addicted to pornography for years and years but he was in an accountability group for many of them and he reports that's "not a problem anymore."  She is very demanding and spends money like crazy.  Those are some of the issues he says he's leaving.  The new woman is younger and very pretty and nice.  Satan is doing is work to pull him down and away from God.  He now believes what he is telling himself about that girl being "worth it" and thinks his older daughters will help take care of the little ones while he sleeps.  My SIL said he "never wakes up with the kids ever."  That are some of the reasons I guess. 

So there were serious problems, and having 9 kids must be a big strain on any marriage. I mean how do you ever get any time to just be the two of you??? Ripe for satan to get in there and destroy, as he loves to do.
I suspect the ow will end up haing to look after his little kids when they come and stay, which I doubt she will be pleased about, but thats what you get when you have a relationship with a man who has 9 kids.

That is true Chosen. 

Seeing how my SIL treated her husband made me want to bring it up with my wife right away.  I could not have a wife that was that demanding.  Her sister once told her, "You need to nag your husband about x."  She told her, "Oh no, I do not nag him that would make things worse."  Nagging would not work for me.  Things in relationships do need to be worked on at times but I do not agree with trying to find fulfillment in your relationship outside the marriage such as a replacement woman. 

[chosenone]

DrT~

Why do you think your brother-in-law hates his wife so much?

He seems to despise her right now.  Their marriage was not perfect as none are.  He has been addicted to pornography for years and years but he was in an accountability group for many of them and he reports that's "not a problem anymore."  She is very demanding and spends money like crazy.  Those are some of the issues he says he's leaving.  The new woman is younger and very pretty and nice.  Satan is doing is work to pull him down and away from God.  He now believes what he is telling himself about that girl being "worth it" and thinks his older daughters will help take care of the little ones while he sleeps.  My SIL said he "never wakes up with the kids ever."  That are some of the reasons I guess. 

So there were serious problems, and having 9 kids must be a big strain on any marriage. I mean how do you ever get any time to just be the two of you??? Ripe for satan to get in there and destroy, as he loves to do.
I suspect the ow will end up having to look after his little kids when they come and stay, which I doubt she will be pleased about, but that's what you get when you have a relationship with a man who has 9 kids.

That is true Chosen. 

Seeing how my SIL treated her husband made me want to bring it up with my wife right away.  I could not have a wife that was that demanding.  Her sister once told her, "You need to nag your husband about x."  She told her, "Oh no, I do not nag him that would make things worse."  Nagging would not work for me.  Things in relationships do need to be worked on at times but I do not agree with trying to find fulfillment in your relationship outside the marriage such as a replacement woman. 

Yes I agree.
A demanding and high maintenance woman is very hard to live with(my husband will tell you this re his ex).The Bible has warnings about a nagging and contentious wife. However being married to a man addicted to porn is also very hard and painful.
Whilst what he is doing is terrible(especially for the innocent children), I hope that in time she will recognise her part in what happened so that she can work on this with Gods help. It wont help her if she blames it ALL on him. In many marriage breakups it is issues on both sides that have led to the end. I am sure that you are  grateful that the sisters sound very different.

[TJW]

In many marriage breakups it is issues on both sides that have led to the end.

It's so unfortunate that people get blind to what their actions are doing in the other person.

There is no way that I can justify the use of porn, or adultery.  Neither can I justify "demanding and high maintenance".  In one of the cases I watched unfold, this was exactly it.  I mean, I don't know about the porn but there was adultery. 

That guy had no right to commit adultery, however, I can understand one of the "driving" factors was the way his wife treated him.  At home, he felt nothing but rejection and criticism for not being a "better" husband. 

It wont help her if she blames it ALL on him.

That's also a "driving" force.  Everything "wrong" about the marriage was him.  Not enough money.  Not enough time at home.  Not being a "spiritual leader".  Nag, nag, nag.  Do this.  Do that.  Change this.  Be different in "this" way, and you'll get to go to bed with me again, even though I have rejected you for months on end and will find another excuse to reject even if you "fix" yourself.

Along comes OW who took responsibility for herself and her own life, and provided him respect and admiration.  She instantly became "worth it". 

And, he, after 11 years of nagging, had become completely callous about how it hurt his wife.  Because the no-respect, and the no-sex, and the nag, nag, nag, hurt him every bit as bad as his adultery hurt her.

[chosenone]

In many marriage breakups it is issues on both sides that have led to the end.

It's so unfortunate that people get blind to what their actions are doing in the other person.

There is no way that I can justify the use of porn, or adultery.  Neither can I justify "demanding and high maintenance".  In one of the cases I watched unfold, this was exactly it.  I mean, I don't know about the porn but there was adultery. 

That guy had no right to commit adultery, however, I can understand one of the "driving" factors was the way his wife treated him.  At home, he felt nothing but rejection and criticism for not being a "better" husband. 

It wont help her if she blames it ALL on him.

That's also a "driving" force.  Everything "wrong" about the marriage was him.  Not enough money.  Not enough time at home.  Not being a "spiritual leader".  Nag, nag, nag.  Do this.  Do that.  Change this.  Be different in "this" way, and you'll get to go to bed with me again, even though I have rejected you for months on end and will find another excuse to reject even if you "fix" yourself.

Along comes OW who took responsibility for herself and her own life, and provided him respect and admiration.  She instantly became "worth it". 

And, he, after 11 years of nagging, had become completely callous about how it hurt his wife.  Because the no-respect, and the no-sex, and the nag, nag, nag, hurt him every bit as bad as his adultery hurt her.

Yes and in cases like that one you can understand why he did it. Thats why it is so important for wives to treat their husbands with respect, and to  never ever use sex as a controlling weapon(I so hate it when wives do that), or to constantly deprive the other of sex. She was more or less opening the door and asking satan to come in by that ungodly behaviour TJW.
God is so right when He says that a wife can build up a marriage, or tear it down.

[DrT]

In many marriage breakups it is issues on both sides that have led to the end. I am sure that you are  grateful that the sisters sound very different.

Yes, I am very grateful.  :) 

[DrT]

I'm sure we try to justify the "reasons" for our behaviors and moving beyond the marriage when it comes to this point but as we go through any relationship, we need to work on the relationship, include God from the start and get good Christian counsel at times.  I really appreciate my wife in our relationship.  :)

[TJW]

I really appreciate my wife in our relationship.  :)

Me too, brother.  I have a fabulous wife.

[DrT]

Update:
Older children do not want anything to do with him now, he moved into a very small 3 bedroom home, his eldest daughter wrote him a great e-mail about the pain he is putting them through, his 13 year old son wrote a letter saying similar, realistic things, sadly he said he no longer be a "fill in the last name here", older kids angry, youngest two kids do not understand anything about it and the 7 year old is confused (not delayed mentally) but slower in understanding things, BIL went to their house, took the truck, rakes, tools, and when his wife, my SIL told him "The attorney said to leave everything here and the judge will figure out what goes where" he became very angry, stormed out and told the attorney, "The last incident with my her (his wife)" (described above) is the reason I NEVER want to go back there again." 

[MeMyself]

Update:
Older children do not want anything to do with him now, he moved into a very small 3 bedroom home, his eldest daughter wrote him a great e-mail about the pain he is putting them through, his 13 year old son wrote a letter saying similar, realistic things, sadly he said he no longer be a "fill in the last name here", older kids angry, youngest two kids do not understand anything about it and the 7 year old is confused (not delayed mentally) but slower in understanding things, BIL went to their house, took the truck, rakes, tools, and when his wife, my SIL told him "The attorney said to leave everything here and the judge will figure out what goes where" he became very angry, stormed out and told the attorney, "The last incident with my her (his wife)" (described above) is the reason I NEVER want to go back there again." 

I am so sorry for the children!  This story is just beyond heart breaking!

[DrT]

It really is MMS.  One of the older kids, when talking to his siblings said a bad thing.  That child told the other, "When you go to dad's house you better be careful, it is haunted."  My SIL caught it and stopped that child and knows her husband tends to turn anything negative towards their dad as coming from the children's mom.  In reality, I can see that happening sometimes but in this case, from my observation, is not not a result of what the mom has sad but from the pain, sorrow, attempts at forgiveness of her husband and requests for husband to return to the family.  :(

[DrT]

As of last night his newest plan to save money (to not pay his wife) is to purchase a house by going into a partnership to buy the house with his co-company owner as a "business decision" so the company owns it and he therefore does not need to "spend his own money" on his wife and children because then he would not be making as much as he was because the business needed to make financial adjustments.  It might be hard to understand from the limited info but in the end he is trying to hide money in various says to say he is not making as much so they can't make him pay as much.   

[HannahT]

A lawyer can put a stop to that.  Once you have a separation or start proceedings you assets tend to go into a freezing mode.  At least in principal it should.

Judges tend to look badly upon a spouse that is trying right away to get away from their financial obligations.    Has she spoken to her lawyer?

[chosenone]

As of last night his newest plan to save money (to not pay his wife) is to purchase a house by going into a partnership to buy the house with his co-company owner as a "business decision" so the company owns it and he therefore does not need to "spend his own money" on his wife and children because then he would not be making as much as he was because the business needed to make financial adjustments.  It might be hard to understand from the limited info but in the end he is trying to hide money in various says to say he is not making as much so they can't make him pay as much.   

  His wife needs to make sure that her lawyer knows that. Its disgusting behaviour, but sadly in a divorce, the best or the worst comes out of people.

[DrT]

Yes, the attorney now knows, she will be doing an audit to find $ but I also know that he uses every available option (for years now) to set himself up financially.  I hope he pays what's due. 

[chosenone]

Yes, the attorney now knows, she will be doing an audit to find $ but I also know that he uses every available option (for years now) to set himself up financially.  I hope he pays what's due. 

In the UK there is a financial declaration form that needs to be filled in.You have to swear that it is honest and true, but he seems to be acting very unfairly and with no integrity at the moment, so he may lie on that as well.

[DrT]

My posting these updates about my S-I-L, B-I-L, and their 9 children are not intended to drag them through the mud but simply to share this sin, what it has been doing to their family and by extension, to my family and it seems to continue.  Today, my B-I-L came with her and her children to my church.  Her  father-in-law and his wife went with them.  After they got home from church my wife was called by the 17 year old daughter in that family asking my wife to come over, "My mom really needs you" she said so my wife went.  Her sister and father in law, (who used to be a pastor) got into an argument.  He accused her of of "causing her children to dishonor" and his wife was acting self-righteously. and my SIL almost passed out and my wife is saying "She lost it." talking about her sister.  :(  This is hard on everybody involved.  Sin is reeking havoc in this family :( 

[DrT]

my s-i-l has lost crazy weight as she has been unable to eat, kids do not want to see their dad which he gets angry and blames his wife for that, men from another church arranged a help around her house party and when my b-i-l went to get the kids asked, "What's going on here?"  When my father in law asked "Don't you feel bad that other men are doing you job?" my BIL said, "no not one bit."  My brother in law has become a heavy drinker.  Eldest daughter has put out great letters to her dad about how it is affecting the family.  BIL didn't go to his daughters graduation.  Still sleeping with girlfriend and when the children ask him about it again, he says, "I'm going to do this right."  I've probably said that before but he continues to say it.  Daughter that is required to visit their dad comes home in tears every time, does not want to go anymore and all they do is come back to his office and watch a movie the past 4 times.  Kids are bored, oldest kids will not go with him....  sad sad sad.  This is his doing mostly.  :(

[anx]

Just keep being as supportive and loving as possible. Try to limit the fallout and pain of all of this in any way you can. Your BiL is shut down to all outside influence. He may see clearly when this all hits rock bottom. From what I know of people like this is they will never accept reality and will isolate themselves from any negative feelings by altering how they see reality. The example I know is a man who left his wife and refuses to talk about or acknowledge anything in the past (now 20-30 years ago) because its in the past, which apparently doesn't matter and shouldn't affect the present.

Blessings

[MrsO2004]

If the children are over the age of 12 usually the courts weigh a little heavier on their desires as far as visitation with their father.  SIL needs to get them into counseling and use that as a tool to help tailor the visitation.  My experience (over 13 years) is that BIL will get tired of feeling like he is forcing them or once he gets with GF full time (or marries her) - he won't spend as much time with them.  Either the way the end result is they will see him less and less.  It really is a shame he has chosen to take this path. 

[chosenone]

my s-i-l has lost crazy weight as she has been unable to eat, kids do not want to see their dad which he gets angry and blames his wife for that, men from another church arranged a help around her house party and when my b-i-l went to get the kids asked, "What's going on here?"  When my father in law asked "Don't you feel bad that other men are doing you job?" my BIL said, "no not one bit."  My brother in law has become a heavy drinker.  Eldest daughter has put out great letters to her dad about how it is affecting the family.  BIL didn't go to his daughters graduation.  Still sleeping with girlfriend and when the children ask him about it again, he says, "I'm going to do this right."  I've probably said that before but he continues to say it.  Daughter that is required to visit their dad comes home in tears every time, does not want to go anymore and all they do is come back to his office and watch a movie the past 4 times.  Kids are bored, oldest kids will not go with him....  sad sad sad.  This is his doing mostly.  :(

Surely you cant force a child to go if it upsets her so much? If she were my daughter there is no way that I would force her, no matter what the conseqenses. Your sil has to eat and keep her strength for he children no matter how she feels. They need to her to be strong. It sounds as if she has lots of support from family and church which is good.
Strange that he says he is going to do this right whenhe isn't doing anything right at all. Of course he is in denial and it amazes me that they that have the cheek to even go to church.Why doesn't the pastor challenge them on their sin of adultery?

[MrsO2004]

Mom has to be careful about disobeying the orders for visitation.  Contempt of orders can involve any thing from financial penalties to time in jail.  Not going to do her any good to go to jail.  WHich is why I suggested counseling with a professional who can write reports that can be presented to the court so they can see how the visitation is really affecting them.
Let it come from 3rd parties the last thing she wants to be accused of is trying to alientate the children from their father.  Something like that could come back to bite her in the hind parts.  Unfortunatley she has to honor the courts orders (as long as hey are not in any immediate danger) until she can get her ducks in a row to show the court why they do need to listen to these children.