New relationship off to a shaky start. Should I bail?

[IStillHaventFound...]

I started seeing a girl (I'll call her L) I met at church in the 30s/40s singles group about 3 weeks ago. I had messaged her on FB and then invited her to an event with a bunch of other people. After that we started hanging out almost all the time.

I made a huge mistake on our 3rd or 4th date. She invited me to a party which was mostly her friends. I talked to another girl at the party for about 20 minutes. I didn't try to hide it.

This was a huge mistake on my part and I realize it now. I was trying to play it cool with L but I went to the party with her and should not have been talking to another female like that. Additionally I didn't realize that she already had feelings for me and she was jealous. She didn't say anything about it until about 2 weeks later. Since that came up now it seems every few days another issue comes up that is related to jealousy, my view of women, I'm not Godly enough, etc. Most of the time she has a point. She is "more spiritual" than I am and wants me to be the spiritual leader. I do initiate prayer over dinner and stuff but otherwise it is fairly clear that her walk with God is more sound than mine. This dynamic reminds me a great deal of the relationship I had with my ex-wife.

When this first started I was hoping this relationship would lead to me making more friends but as time has gone on I think it is leading to less. She tends to want us to be around people from the group less, which I suspect might have a little to do with this jealousy that I think I caused. I have a tendency to think that I am wrong most of the time and that the other person is right, especially in male female relationships.

Any thoughts?

[Lively Stone]

If you are not equally matched spiritually, she is not the one God has for you and vice versa. Keep it light and friendly, socially and keep expecting God to provide a mate suited to you.

[JohnDB]

I started seeing a girl (I'll call her L) I met at church in the 30s/40s singles group about 3 weeks ago. I had messaged her on FB and then invited her to an event with a bunch of other people. After that we started hanging out almost all the time.

I made a huge mistake on our 3rd or 4th date. She invited me to a party which was mostly her friends. I talked to another girl at the party for about 20 minutes. I didn't try to hide it.

This was a huge mistake on my part and I realize it now. I was trying to play it cool with L but I went to the party with her and should not have been talking to another female like that. Additionally I didn't realize that she already had feelings for me and she was jealous. She didn't say anything about it until about 2 weeks later. Since that came up now it seems every few days another issue comes up that is related to jealousy, my view of women, I'm not Godly enough, etc. Most of the time she has a point. She is "more spiritual" than I am and wants me to be the spiritual leader. I do initiate prayer over dinner and stuff but otherwise it is fairly clear that her walk with God is more sound than mine. This dynamic reminds me a great deal of the relationship I had with my ex-wife.

When this first started I was hoping this relationship would lead to me making more friends but as time has gone on I think it is leading to less. She tends to want us to be around people from the group less, which I suspect might have a little to do with this jealousy that I think I caused. I have a tendency to think that I am wrong most of the time and that the other person is right, especially in male female relationships.

Any thoughts?

Actually it probably has less to do with Jealousy and more to do with trying to learn all she can about you and a chance for you to find out all you can about her.


But how we interact with others and talk about others actually is more of a clue as to who we are than anything else. You are satisfying her need for social interaction and so her desire to go out with other singles is less. (take that as a positive)


But you can and probably should explain to her your gregarious nature (you like going out and seeing people for non-sexual interaction). My wife understands that in me. She tends to be more introverted than I but understands my need for hanging out with friends too.


The girl you got carried away with in conversation could have been just as easily a guy you got caught up in a conversation with.


The constant scolding to start meals with prayer...that would be more troubling to me than anything...meaning she is trying to change your habits to fit a mold she desires. Not a positive.

[RoninJedi]

I would suggest an open, honest, serious heart-to-heart.  I don't mean to sit down with a "now look here" type of attitude.  But she needs to know how you're feeling, and likewise you need to know how she's feeling.  It sounds like right now all you've got is "it might be this" or "maybe it's that" and that just doesn't cut it.  Sitting down together and having a genuine discussion about how both of you feel will eliminate that.

You said you two met in the 30s/40s group, so forgive me for sounding harsh but you're both too old for games or beating around the bush.

Again, I don't mean you should hit her over the head with this stuff (and neither should she), but it's absolutely imperative you two have open and honest communication.  A lack thereof will kill a relationship faster than anything.

I realize this relationship is only a few weeks along, but that doesn't mean the principles of what makes a relationship work don't apply. 

You said, "Most of the time she has a point," with regard to her complaints of you.  First of all, those complaints need to stop, and be presented in the more adult-oriented conversation I mentioned above, but let's put that off for a moment.  I sense by you saying she has a point that you harbor some sort of guilt or regret regarding - well - you.

What you need to do is start aiming to please God.  Not her, and not even yourself.  Once you do that, and you commit to it, and you renew that commitment every single day, you'll start to notice changes.  I'm not saying it will happen overnight.  That almost never happens.  But it will happen, and as a consequence, the closer you get to the Lord, the closer you will get to her - IF she's on the same path.

I sense a feeling on the border of shame because "she's more spiritual than you".  Stop comparing yourself to her.  Or anyone, for that matter.  You need a complete paradigm shift.  Stop worrying about what she thinks is spiritual, or what you think is spiritual.  Stop worrying about making yourself presentable to her and let God make you presentable to Himself.  You can't do it, she can't do it, and I get the feeling I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.  But knowing is only half the battle.  The other half is doing something about it.

I feel this woman is already very important to you, and that's a wonderful thing.  But I have to be honest and tell you I feel you're putting her too high on your priority list.  You need to put God in the #1 slot.  Assuming you have children, they need to go into #2, and L needs to go into #3.

Apologies if I came across harsh, that wasn't my intention.  I'll add the two of you to my prayers, brother.  If you take nothing else from my little rant, make it this:

Get on your knees right now, and ask the Lord to make you the man He wants you to be.  Once that process has begun, you will know whether this relationship is where He wants you to be or not.

[chosenone]

HMM, I think you are aready having doubts,  and if she is already being very critical with you two barely going out toegether, and you comparing it to your first marriage, I would cool it.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Thank you for the responses. RoninJedi I appreciated what you said. You are pretty perceptive.

There is another issue I didn't mention in my first post. A couple weeks ago I tried to kiss her and she said no. This was two weeks  and about 7 or 8 dates into our relationship and  She said she wanted to take things very slowly in that department. We discussed it briefly. The way I saw it I had two choices, bail or go along. Over the next couple of weeks the issue came up a couple of times but it definitely wasn't talked about all the time. Although we were exclusive in a de facto sense it seemed kind of silly to me to have that discussion if we hadn't even kissed. We had held hands, hugged, walked arm in arm. Among other things, I think the lack or presence of kissing says something about the stage of a relationship.

Last night we talked about a few issues including me not being the spiritual leader she wanted and the kissing thing. I told her I didn't think things were going to work out for us. She cried. I felt terrible. We hung out for the next 45 minutes and said goodbye with things in a slight sense of limbo. She told me that she got her ideas about kissing from a class she took, a book and Song of Solomon. She said she believed Song of Solomon promoted waiting for physical contact in a relationship. I told her I believed that was a strange reading of the book but we both agreed to re-read it and then discuss it.

So this morning I'm thinking of sending a text along the lines of "When you cried last night my heart melted. I'm not ready to say goodbye to you."

I hate goodbyes so much!

[DaveW]

I think the lack or presence of kissing says something about the stage of a relationship.

Not necessarily.  My wife and I have been married for over 35 years and we have rarely kissed, and that only a closed-lip smack. My wife just does not like anything else. It does not speak love or affection to her.

So I would not put a lot of stock in how much you do or don't kiss.

[chosenone]

Thank you for the responses. RoninJedi I appreciated what you said. You are pretty perceptive.

There is another issue I didn't mention in my first post. A couple weeks ago I tried to kiss her and she said no. This was two weeks  and about 7 or 8 dates into our relationship and  She said she wanted to take things very slowly in that department. We discussed it briefly. The way I saw it I had two choices, bail or go along. Over the next couple of weeks the issue came up a couple of times but it definitely wasn't talked about all the time. Although we were exclusive in a de facto sense it seemed kind of silly to me to have that discussion if we hadn't even kissed. We had held hands, hugged, walked arm in arm. Among other things, I think the lack or presence of kissing says something about the stage of a relationship.

Last night we talked about a few issues including me not being the spiritual leader she wanted and the kissing thing. I told her I didn't think things were going to work out for us. She cried. I felt terrible. We hung out for the next 45 minutes and said goodbye with things in a slight sense of limbo. She told me that she got her ideas about kissing from a class she took, a book and Song of Solomon. She said she believed Song of Solomon promoted waiting for physical contact in a relationship. I told her I believed that was a strange reading of the book but we both agreed to re-read it and then discuss it.

So this morning I'm thinking of sending a text along the lines of "When you cried last night my heart melted. I'm not ready to say goodbye to you."

I hate goodbyes so much!

You may hate goodbyes, but why delay the inevitatable? If you are not good enough for her spiritually then why carry on?We all need someone who loves and appreciates us for who who we ARE and not for who they WANT us to be. Myhusband will vouch for that.
He spent 23years with a wife who never thought he was good enough for her, and tried to change him constantly.

Has she been married before like you?

[JohnDB]

Let me tell ya from experience.

Physical contact between those who have been previously married is pretty risky behavior. Most divorced adults get into their "married routine" and get into a physical intimacy situation that they really had no intention of getting into.

Just one of the disadvantages of being divorced. Where she may have been taking advice from somewhere it is rather prudent.

Take heart from your friendship rather than her physicality. Both of you two are too nervous yet & really can't relax yet in your relationship to really discover who the two of you are together yet.

She is right in some areas and so are you.

But at the same time make sure you are enjoying her personality & not just the idea of her.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Good point chosenone. Last night before the actual break up we discussed those issues.

She has never been married before and has no kids. I have been married once and have one child.

Also, she is 37 and I am 49. Not a huge age difference but potentially significant. I think the more important difference from past experiences is that I have been married and reproduced and she has not.

But chosenone is right in this matter: If she knows what she wants and I'm not it then why continue? On the other hand I am not certain that our differences are insurmountable. I think we do have much in common. For one thing we are both deep thinkers.

[chosenone]

Good point chosenone. Last night before the actual break up we discussed those issues.

She has never been married before and has no kids. I have been married once and have one child.

Well that can cause problems also, because you obviously have far more experience of relationships, and of course have a child to be a father to and an ex wife. Is she much younger than you?

[JohnDB]

Never being married & younger is NOT an issue. My wife is 29 & I'm 47. I've been married 2 times previously and she never has been. 

She is an awesome wife and friend that is supportive and additive to my ministries to God.

She is by far the best wife. She says I'm a husband that far exceeds her expectations. We are deliriously happy together.

The part that especially works is when a never been married person brings no emotional baggage to the relationship as when divorced people usually do.

[RoninJedi]

Let me chime in once more to point out the only thing inevitable is death and taxes...and you can cheat your taxes.  I think chosenone means well, and has very good intentions, but she is not a prophet.  "Inevitable" has no place in this discussion, in my opinion.

There's a difference of opinion building here with one side saying, "Drop it!"  and the other saying, "Chill out, apply some things, and see how it goes."  I can tell you right now, based on the way you've shared your feelings about this woman, and some of the things you've said, "Drop it" is not in your game plan.

I realize this is not a marriage.  But consider this: would you rather get these differences out, discussed, and settled now?  Or would you rather wait until further down the road when you two are married, only to discover you have no idea who you actually married?  It happens every single day.  Or would rather just throw up your hands and walk away?  I may be completely mistaken, but you don't strike me as the "tuck tail and run" type.

As far as your differences, I could say Opposites Attract, which is a cliche', but also true.  Larry Burkett put it this way:

"If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary."

Differences exist to draw us closer, not repel us.  When two people get married they become one flesh.  If they're just alike, then when you put them together you'll find you've got a lot of leftover parts.

I should write that down.   

Ultimately, it comes down to what you want, and what you're willing to do.  Are you willing to work out the kinks in the relationship, or are you willing to run away?  Nothing worth doing is ever easy.  If it was, everyone would do it.  And I can tell you for certain that if you walk away from a relationship now because it's hard, then you will continue to do the same.  They're supposed to be hard.  That's what makes them worth it.

Forgive me for telling you something else you probably already know, but relationships - especially marriages - are not all about "I love you so much and I'd do anything for you and you make me so happy."  They're about having the "Why did I marry you?  Where's my underwear?  Why didn't you use the timer on the oven?  Why can't you be on time?  My dad did it different!" days, but deciding to make it work anyway.  They're about looking in the mirror every single day, and deciding that no matter what gets thrown your way, you're going to make it work.  That is one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do.  But I do it every single day.

Besides.  No one said it was easy.  They just said it was worth it.

I'm also not a prophet.  I don't know what God has in store for you.  But I do know you did not meet this woman by accident.  The issues you're having did not catch God by surprise.  He planned them, and He has a wonderful purpose for it.  Whatever's going on is for your own good. 

Maybe the pair of you will be stronger later for going through this.  Maybe you will be stronger later in a different relationship.  And maybe in the midst of either one of those outcomes, you will be put in a position to use this experience to aid some other young couple in a similar circumstance down the road.

People get hung up on, "If it's hard, leave.  If it's not good, leave.  If you're not happy right now, leave."  To those people, I offer a simple challenge.

Find just one of God's people in Scripture who had it easy.  I dare you.

Exactly.  There's no such thing.

So to close out my novella here, I want to encourage you once more to resort to prayer and seeking the Lord.  Everything will fall into place once you're on that journey.  They may not fall into the places you want them to, or that you think they should, but they will fall where the Lord puts them.  And He loves you, and He still has awesome things in store for you.  You just may have to get a little dirty, a little sad, or a little frustrated on the way.

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end." - Jeremiah 29:11

Don't worry about the end result so much.  Worry about pleasing the Lord, and He will give you the end He wants you to have.  God bless.

-Matt

[IStillHaventFound...]

Thanks again Chosenone, John and Matt. Matt, I took your words to heart. And I'm going to admit right up front that a big part of it is that you said what I wanted to hear. I was looking for a reason to go visit her this evening. Sort of a fleece if you will and you gave me that. You too John. I'll check in later with an update.

[RoninJedi]

I kind of felt like you may have been looking for affirmation, but didn't want to "call you out", so to speak, because there's nothing wrong with that at all.  I'm glad I could help, and I pray that the Lord uses this experience to bless you abundantly!  No matter where the chips may fall when the smoke clears.

Lord, I just want to lift up my brother for a moment to ask you give him words to speak, and the courage to speak them.  Also Lord that you would give him ears to hear what L has to say.  Father you alone know the plan unfolding in his life, and you know his needs far better than I do.  You know them even better than he does.  I just pray Father that those needs would be met and met in abundance, and that you would seize his heart and draw it closer to you as he begins to walk down this path.  I pray this in the mighty name of Jesus Christ.  Amen.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Not much happened last night. I drove by her house and her car wasn't in the driveway. She is living with her parents for a while. I didn't knock or anything but later I called her and left a voicemail message. Then I went to church for the evening. While there I prayed with a guy who seemed to have supernatural insight into my situation. At any rate L texted me around 10:30 but I was ready to go to sleep so I didn't reply until this morning. I have been praying for her since the breakup that God would comfort her.

[chosenone]

Never being married & younger is NOT an issue. My wife is 29 & I'm 47. I've been married 2 times previously and she never has been. 

She is an awesome wife and friend that is supportive and additive to my ministries to God.

She is by far the best wife. She says I'm a husband that far exceeds her expectations. We are deliriously happy together.

The part that especially works is when a never been married person brings no emotional baggage to the relationship as when divorced people usually do.

We are all different. Personally I wouldnt have been interested in a man much older than me, nor one who had never been married and had never had children, when I had been in a long first marriage with children.
Age gaps can work, but it does get harder when you get older, and one is middle aged and one is elderly.

[chosenone]

Not much happened last night. I drove by her house and her car wasn't in the driveway. She is living with her parents for a while. I didn't knock or anything but later I called her and left a voicemail message. Then I went to church for the evening. While there I prayed with a guy who seemed to have supernatural insight into my situation. At any rate L texted me around 10:30 but I was ready to go to sleep so I didn't reply until this morning. I have been praying for her since the breakup that God would comfort her.

What concrens me is that you have come here asking for guidance. If you were sure this relationship was right, you wouldnt need to do this. People tend to ask for help when they are having doubts.

[IStillHaventFound...]

I do understand your concerns and they are valid.

A little update: We had a special date planned for a few weeks. I am a teacher and I have to supervise the Junior Prom this Saturday. I asked her to go as my date. She was super excited at the time and after the breakup Monday she asked if we were still going. I said of course. We have been texting a little today and she has been very sweet. I am sure I am being lead more by my emotions than my brain right now but sometimes I think that is good for me. I do tend to over analyze things.

[JohnDB]

I do understand your concerns and they are valid.

A little update: We had a special date planned for a few weeks. I am a teacher and I have to supervise the Junior Prom this Saturday. I asked her to go as my date. She was super excited at the time and after the breakup Monday she asked if we were still going. I said of course. We have been texting a little today and she has been very sweet. I am sure I am being lead more by my emotions than my brain right now but sometimes I think that is good for me. I do tend to over analyze things.

And if I was you I would keep the promised date.


Even if romance is off the table you still got a great friend out of the date.

[RoninJedi]

I do understand your concerns and they are valid.

A little update: We had a special date planned for a few weeks. I am a teacher and I have to supervise the Junior Prom this Saturday. I asked her to go as my date. She was super excited at the time and after the breakup Monday she asked if we were still going. I said of course. We have been texting a little today and she has been very sweet. I am sure I am being lead more by my emotions than my brain right now but sometimes I think that is good for me. I do tend to over analyze things.

And if I was you I would keep the promised date.


Even if romance is off the table you still got a great friend out of the date.

[IStillHaventFound...]

We went to the prom despite another blow up earlier in the day. Then another stupid argument at dinner about which is better, mountain bikes or road bikes. Then the rest of the evening was great.

Then a few days later the girl at the party thing came up again because she posted something benign on my FB page.

I think L is a little embarrassed about some of her behavior at this point. We have plans for this evening and much of the day tomorrow. Also, she is pretty good friends with the single's pastor and he told her he was willing to see me, something I had asked about before. Also, people are asking about us because we have been seen together a lot. I did talk to some other friends too.

I have considered telling her something like, "You can't blow up at me any more. If you do, this relationship won't work for me." But I don't want to get into that today because I just want us to have a good time together for a few days.

I think she really likes me and I think she is a sweetheart but has issues, as do I. She claims to be self aware and in search of self improvement. I think she needs help with conflict resolution skills and I think she is starting to believe that too.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Also, after the prom we went to her house and watched a movie until 2am. We were laying closely to each other and face to face and I tried to kiss her. She wouldn't let me then a while later I tried again and then she melted and kissed back. Then our relationship became a kissing one for a few days, sometimes pretty passionate, but nothing beyond that. Then she asked me to read a book, "The Invisible Bond" about the physical relationship and abstinence and stuff. She asked me to agree to no kissing until I finished the book, which I did and I am reading. It is interesting. She is pretty passionate but wants to do the right thing.

[JohnDB]

Yeah. I'd tell her that thing @ the blowin up at you.

Then steal a kiss.

Then say this limeric:
"Neener neener a boo boo,
I stole a kiss from you hoo"

[RoninJedi]

Yeah. I'd tell her that thing @ the blowin up at you.

Then steal a kiss.

Then say this limeric:
"Neener neener a boo boo,
I stole a kiss from you hoo"

John, you are a hopeless romantic.   

In all seriousness, I think your feelings are dead on.  She seems like a woman who knows she has some issues and is willing to work them out, in addition to wanting a relationship - but not wanting to have a relationship with mistakes.  She may be just a little extreme in wanting to set boundaries (just my opinion), but I think she's doing it for the right reasons.

So, like John, I would definitely tell her about blowing up at you.  Obviously, you don't have to "put your foot down" about it, but she needs to know this is a serious issue for you.  Other than that, I say keep doing what you're doing.  It seems like it's taking a turn for the positive.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Thanks again for the advice and the interest. We spent a lot of time together over the weekend but then broke up on Sunday. It was her decision. She felt convicted that our relationship was not right because of the weakness of my faith. I agree with her that my faith is lacking.

I don't think it was easy for her. There was a picture of us together on FB and I told her I was going to take it down last night. She got upset about this. I explained that it was because I didn't want to look like a delusional hanger-on or stalker. She thought it was so it wouldn't get in the way of me meeting someone new.

She called me again after we parted company after the breakup conversation, then again a couple hours later and texted me a lot this morning. She was still angry about some things but I told her I didn't have to listen to it any more. But our last texts have been civil and we wished each other well. I do hope that I was a blessing to her and that she grew as a result of our relationship. She said that she did and I agreed that I did as well. Our agreement is to be friends, which is what you are supposed to say after a break up, right? I assured her that I would be friendly and that I would try to make her comfortable when we see each other at church and that I wouldn't talk about her behind her back.

[chosenone]

Thanks again for the advice and the interest. We spent a lot of time together over the weekend but then broke up on Sunday. It was her decision. She felt convicted that our relationship was not right because of the weakness of my faith. I agree with her that my faith is lacking.

I don't think it was easy for her. There was a picture of us together on FB and I told her I was going to take it down last night. She got upset about this. I explained that it was because I didn't want to look like a delusional hanger-on or stalker. She thought it was so it wouldn't get in the way of me meeting someone new.

She called me again after we parted company after the breakup conversation, then again a couple hours later and texted me a lot this morning. She was still angry about some things but I told her I didn't have to listen to it any more. But our last texts have been civil and we wished each other well. I do hope that I was a blessing to her and that she grew as a result of our relationship. She said that she did and I agreed that I did as well. Our agreement is to be friends, which is what you are supposed to say after a break up, right? I assured her that I would be friendly and that I would try to make her comfortable when we see each other at church and that I wouldn't talk about her behind her back.

  I wonder why she is still contacting you if she has broken up? Also why she didnt want you to take that photo down? After all she has ended it so there is nothing wrong with you meeting anyone else is there? I dont think that it is ever a good idea to carry on contact after a relationship ends, but just to act in a polite but civil way if you do have to meet. My thoughts.

[JohnDB]

Chosenone,

Because, while the girl may claim to have spiritual maturity she really doesn't own it.  Most of the time people equate spiritual knowlege with spiritual maturity. Maturity comes from wisdom (the correct application of knowlege)

That's how an ignorant person like a child can have a better grasp on Spiritual maturity than an adult.

The whole situation with her sounds like she is trying to change him into a person she can be happy with. (He is obviously resistant)
Why couldn't she be happy with the man he is and watch as God changes him ?

Why does she wish for him to be so emotionally distraught that he keeps their picture up? Only a true narcissist is concerned that he might start dating again. A Christian friend wants him to be truly happy especially since she dated him & kept him from dating others who might provide that happiness.

[chosenone]

Chosenone,

Because, while the girl may claim to have spiritual maturity she really doesn't own it.  Most of the time people equate spiritual knowlege with spiritual maturity. Maturity comes from wisdom (the correct application of knowlege)

That's how an ignorant person like a child can have a better grasp on Spiritual maturity than an adult.

The whole situation with her sounds like she is trying to change him into a person she can be happy with. (He is obviously resistant)
Why couldn't she be happy with the man he is and watch as God changes him ?

Why does she wish for him to be so emotionally distraught that he keeps their picture up? Only a true narcissist is concerned that he might start dating again. A Christian friend wants him to be truly happy especially since she dated him & kept him from dating others who might provide that happiness.

  Yes I agree.

[IStillHaventFound...]

Things have simmered down now. The last couple of messages were pleasant. I'm sure she was frustrated because there were things about me she liked but I wasn't the spiritual leader she desires. And I don't say that with any sarcasm or sour grapes or anything. It is the truth. Thanks for the replies.

[chosenone]

Things have simmered down now. The last couple of messages were pleasant. I'm sure she was frustrated because there were things about me she liked but I wasn't the spiritual leader she desires. And I don't say that with any sarcasm or sour grapes or anything. It is the truth. Thanks for the replies.

Why are you still texting if it is over? Surely for both your sakes its best that you move on from each other?