Differences in the gospel preached by Peter and Paul....great list of Scriptures

[eph3nine]

Did Peter present a different gospel than Paul...LETS see!


How was salvation presented under Peters gospel vs Pauls gospel? Different? YES

Judaism = Peter's gospel

God has been saving people ever since Adam and Eve, but salvation has differed according to His will. Two different plans are presented in the Bible:

1. Faith plus works = salvation
2. Faith alone =salvation

A. Faith Plus Works

Under Judaism, the plan of salvation is given in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". Salvation is dependent upon believing (ie: faith) plus being baptized in water. And so you have the formula -faith plus works=salvation. And when one STUDIES the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, this theme of faith plus works is repeated over and over again. Here are some examples:

1. Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, that except YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of heaven" (Please note that this is the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH promised to the Jew alone. Also notice the 'good works' of verse 16 and the 'doing' of verse 19.

2. Matthew 19:16-21 The rich young ruler wanted to know what he could DO to have eternal life. Jesus told him to KEEP the commandments. The young fella said he DID keep the commandments. What ELSE was there for him to DO? Jesus then told him to go and sell all that thou hast and GIVE to the Poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come follow ME." verse 21 ( I think Jesus meant just what He said)

3. Matthew 19:29 Everlasting Life here is dependent upon the FORSAKING of family ties and material possessions for His name's sake.

4. John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God" (Entrance into the EARTHLY kingdom is by water baptism plus the work of the Holy Spirit. This is the same as Acts 2:38,39.

The BEST way to study the four gospels is to study them chronologically. Then one can see how the faith the works dovetail to form the gospel of the KINGDOM. The Gospel of John is the most spiritual of the 4 records because he emphasizes the FAITH (believing) part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, while Matthew, Mark and Luke emphaize the WORKS part of the Kingdom gospel.

Now dont misunderstand me. NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DO YOU FIND SALVATION DEPENDENT SOLELY UPON WORKS!!

The Bible does not teach salvation by works and neither do I. Under the Godspel of the Kingdom, the wroks were an OUTWARD demonstration that the individual HAD faith, and this saved him. There are at least two classifications of works in the Bible- The Works of the Law of Moses (Gal. 2:16) and the works of the FLESH (Gal. 5:19) The works of the flesh will get NO man into God's heaven. But GOD DID require under the Dispensation of Law, faith PLUS the works of the Law for salvation for the Millennial Kingdom of God.

This principle of works continued up to the time of Cornelius in Acts 10. Peter began his sermon to the gentiles in Cornelius's house by saying : "But in every nation he that feareth Him and WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is accepted with Him." (Acts 10:35) The faith part is in verse 43...whosoever believes in Him.

James 2:14-26 falls into the same category. He wrote in verse 17, "Even so faith, if it hath not works is DEAD, being ALONE" The second chapter of James has long been a difficult chapter to understand. Putting it with the gospel of the KINGDOM gives us the right meaning of what it says. James wrote his letter "to the TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad." (James 1:1), and ONLY ISRAEL was divided into twelve tribes. This ESTABLISHES to whom this letter is written, and James, in keeping with is calling, is really basing what he writes on another very familiar verse of scripture - one that he could easily understand...Mark 16:16 Under THIS program, faith being alone WAS dead!

Christianity = Paul's Gospel

According to the Gospel of the GRACE of God, salvation is by faith plus NOTHING. It is by pure grace because there are NO works of ANY kind involved. "For by GRACE are you saved thru faith, and that NOT ouf yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)

This is the Magna Carta of salvation in THIS age. It is faith and faith ALONE that saves a person today. This faith is to be exercised in a PERSON, the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. "But to him that WORKETH NOT, but BELIEVETH on Him that justifys the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

We are to be identified with Him in His death, burial and resurrection, thus obtaining a BRAND NEW identity as members of His Body, which is the Church of this age and NONE OTHER.



















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[Jaime]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

[DaveW]

Were there differences?  Of course. No question.

But as to Paul being "right" and Peter being "wrong;" that is not correct.  Both were correct.  (btw - Peter, James and the author of Hebrews were writing to New Covenant Jews and not gentile believers)

If you want to know how that all was to play out, read Acts 21.17-26.

[eph3nine]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

1. Scripture mentions the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the UNcircumcision. That is TWO gospels. We need to know which gospel is in operation TODAY.

2. There IS only one gospel that God is operating under today and it's NOT the gospel that Peter preached or the gospel that Jesus Himself preached in His earthly ministry (which was the law and not grace at all)

3. James is a minister of the circumcision, which tells us which gospel HE preached. He preached the law and did so unto the Nation of Israel. His words are NOT to or about US, the church which is His Body. If you don't believe me then read James 1:1 to see who James is addressing:James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES (this is ISRAEL, not us) which are scattered abroad, greeting."

4. Under Israels program James words make perfect sense. WORKS plus faith were required under that program.

5. Under the present dispensation of GRACE, these instructions apply: Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."  Do you see the difference? God justifies US on the basis of what Christ has done on the Cross, and by trusting that ALONE, we are justified.

5. Repenting, confessing and being water baptized are all instructions given to Israel under the LAW and were required. We are not under the law, but under GRACE. The ONLY baptism we have has nothing to do with water at all! 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[eph3nine]

Were there differences?  Of course. No question.

But as to Paul being "right" and Peter being "wrong;" that is not correct.  Both were correct.  (btw - Peter, James and the author of Hebrews were writing to New Covenant Jews and not gentile believers)

If you want to know how that all was to play out, read Acts 21.17-26.

Glad you agree about there indeed being differences. I don't believe I contended that Peter was WRONG. Peter was a minister to the circumcision and his commission was to teach the law. The NEW Covenant cannot be in effect until the death of the Testator...it is still a future event for Israel as God Set ASIDE their program until this UNPROPHESIED age of GRACE is completed. Israel refused to acknowledge Jesus as their promised Messiah and King and God set them aside in UNBELIEF. He will resume His unfinished business with them AFTER the church which is His BODY is completed. Peter and James were ministers of the circumcision and thus, their words were to the Covenant Jew. Paul alone has the words of Christ Risen which are OUR instructions for this present age of GRACE, where there is no jew or gentile but the ONE new Man.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me (Paul) first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

[winsome]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

1. Scripture mentions the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the UNcircumcision. That is TWO gospels. We need to know which gospel is in operation TODAY.

Where does scripture say that?

[Tyler]

God no longer looks at men as Jew or Gentile (Gal. 3:23-29).
But a "new creation" as preached by Paul in 2 Cor. 5:17.
The further one reads into the New Testament we see that anyone not "in Christ" is a Gentile.
For sure, he cannot be a Biblical Jew. No man can prove that he is a "Jew" in the absolute sense of the word (Romans 2:28-30). Note the genealogies in Numbers 1:1ff.
Know any Levites who would preside over the tabernacle and over all the vessels thereof" (Numbers 1:50)?

[Louise48]

About faith and works:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



FAITH is what we put behind action.  Without faith there is no action.

ACTION means we have faith/belief in what we need to do.

SALVATION is a gift from God, it's free.

ACTION, is what we do when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. 

So "belief means nothing without actions." Get it?

[HRoberson]

If anyone comes preaching another Gospel.......


I don't know, just seemed appropriate.

[FireSword]

Interesting stuff, I have never seen that before and that does not happen often.

Might be worth getting into.

[JohnDB]

One Lord, one faith, one Batism.

By Baptism they mean batch of dye used to color cloth or thread.

Its the same cup of wine at a Seder. The one that is shared.

[Bonnie]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

Amen!

[Genesis2]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

1. Scripture mentions the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the UNcircumcision. That is TWO gospels. We need to know which gospel is in operation TODAY.

2. There IS only one gospel that God is operating under today and it's NOT the gospel that Peter preached or the gospel that Jesus Himself preached in His earthly ministry (which was the law and not grace at all)

3. James is a minister of the circumcision, which tells us which gospel HE preached. He preached the law and did so unto the Nation of Israel. His words are NOT to or about US, the church which is His Body. If you don't believe me then read James 1:1 to see who James is addressing:James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES (this is ISRAEL, not us) which are scattered abroad, greeting."

4. Under Israels program James words make perfect sense. WORKS plus faith were required under that program.

5. Under the present dispensation of GRACE, these instructions apply: Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."  Do you see the difference? God justifies US on the basis of what Christ has done on the Cross, and by trusting that ALONE, we are justified.

5. Repenting, confessing and being water baptized are all instructions given to Israel under the LAW and were required. We are not under the law, but under GRACE. The ONLY baptism we have has nothing to do with water at all! 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul said in Romans 3 "do we make void the law through faith, NO we establish the law" and in Romans 6 "do we sin more so grace abounds, God forbid"
So from this we can see complete agreement between all the Apostles..there is no difference, just different ways of expressing things.

[inhishands]

Hi, I am new to the forum.  I am not sure I am following your thought on GRACE through faith (both GOD'S gift to the believer) because, really, no man can "work" apart from GOD giving to the man either HIS GRACE and THE FAITH to believe.  For it is also written, of course in Romans, (which would be letters written by Paul to a believing "body" in his care) that it is with the heart one believes.

And since it is GOD who sees inwardly what no man can see, and since it is GOD who will judge, is it right to say that those who follow Paul (although Paul would have clearly said DO NOT follow him because he is only a man and it was only through him that one heard the Gospel and believed and received the Gospel as it should properly be received (as from GOD), are following a "different gospel"?

[inhishands]

I'm not sure I am in agreement with you with regards to James being a minister of the circumcised group.  Could you please show me where in THE WORD of GOD, it is written that James was of the circumcised group?

Also, when did GOD make a distinction and division between the circumcised and the uncircumcised?  That is, the circumcision made outwardly by the hands of men?  That is not the TRUE CIRCUMCISION made by the hand of GOD inwardly upon the inward flesh of the man...and that is the revelation of the GOSPEL of GOD...which IS...JESUS CHRIST...plus, really...nothing added to THE FOUNDATION, which IS...JESUS CHRIST.

[inhishands]

The death of the "testator" (or HUSBAND) already happened.  And the NEW COVENANT and the MEDIATOR and the MINISTER of THAT NEW COVENANT is even now in effect.

ONE BRIDEGROOM...ONE MARRIAGE COVENANT.

[inhishands]

There is only one Gospel and no mention of "faith alone" except in James where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone. Repenting, confessing He is Lord and being baptized is not works. They earn no part of salvation. They are clearly part of our faith response to the free gift we cannot earn. Unless one is hydro-phobic. Paul wasn't. Read about the Phillipian jailer.

1. Scripture mentions the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the UNcircumcision. That is TWO gospels. We need to know which gospel is in operation TODAY.

2. There IS only one gospel that God is operating under today and it's NOT the gospel that Peter preached or the gospel that Jesus Himself preached in His earthly ministry (which was the law and not grace at all)

3. James is a minister of the circumcision, which tells us which gospel HE preached. He preached the law and did so unto the Nation of Israel. His words are NOT to or about US, the church which is His Body. If you don't believe me then read James 1:1 to see who James is addressing:James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES (this is ISRAEL, not us) which are scattered abroad, greeting."

4. Under Israels program James words make perfect sense. WORKS plus faith were required under that program.

5. Under the present dispensation of GRACE, these instructions apply: Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."  Do you see the difference? God justifies US on the basis of what Christ has done on the Cross, and by trusting that ALONE, we are justified.

5. Repenting, confessing and being water baptized are all instructions given to Israel under the LAW and were required. We are not under the law, but under GRACE. The ONLY baptism we have has nothing to do with water at all! 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I think you need to remember that there is only ONE TRUE ISRAEL of GOD...and all the words of GOD spoken in a hidden and veiled sense, in signs and parables and representations all pointed to the HIDDEN and HIGHER TRUTH that is revealed in CHRIST JESUS.
GOD only spoke to one set of people...to those who listened and obeyed the call, those are the ones who were "taken out of "egypt" and brought into ISRAEL...(BY GOD ALONE)...and this is HIS SON.
The ISRAEL of GOD which Paul spoke of is CHRIST JESUS...
And while you may be referring to the "circumcised" as the "tribes of Israel" who will hear THE GOSPEL preached in the last days, their eyes were covered over only for a time, until the OLIVE TREE might be filled.  It's all GOD'S WORK of bringing into HIS SON, those who belong to HIM.

Israel will also hear THE GOSPEL and Israel will also be saved.
And as you know...not all who say they are of Israel (physically) are of ISRAEL (SPIRITUALLY)

Can't we even make the right judgments and do what we are capable of, (and should naturally) do???

[Norton]

Acts 15:11 (Peter speaking about the salvation of Gentiles) "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that we are saved, just as they are."

Jews and Gentiles are saved the same way by the same gospel. By grace through faith that works through love.

[bcbsr]

While I think if one actually reads out of the epistle of James rather than reading into him, yes James was preaching a different gospel than Paul, as also Martin Luther noticed.  But not Peter.

When Paul went up to Jerusalem to present his gospel, Peter agreed with him. Peter said, "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Acts 15:7-11

Then in Galatians 2:15,16 Paul confronts Peter and says, "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."

In using "we" Paul was acknowledging that Peter understood the gospel the same as he did.

As for James, go back to Acts 15 and see how James responded to Paul's gospel. He didn't agree with it. He made up his own gospel saying, "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood." James made the gospel out to be a matter of eating and drinking, religious ceremonies, much as Catholicism and other Neo-Circumcision sects do today. This in contrast to the gospel Peter and  Paul preached.

[Norton]

James was preaching to people who claimed to be in the Kingdom, but their actions did not show they were in the Kingdom. He is basically telling us what we should do after we get in the Kingdom. He uses the example of Abraham offering Isaac, as a test of faith, years after he was credited with righteousness by faith.

Paul, in Rome 4, is telling people how one gets in the Kingdom. It is not by having your faith tested, by doing some kind of works, but by faith. He uses the example of Abraham believing what God told him, that he would have a son from his own body.

Not two different gospels. Two different times in ones relationship to God. We are planted in the Kingdom , not because we have borne fruit, but to bear fruit.

[John christian]

Of course Peter and Paul preached different gospels, Peter brought back the teachings of the Pharisees, when he fell from grace.

Galatians 2:11-14

It is by grace we are saved, but we are saved through faith.

The writer of Hebrews also brings back a different gospel, not a new one, but one that has never been so prevelant as it is today. Jesus came to bring us understanding, he came to open our eyes, not to lead us around withbiys and pieces of evidence keeping us blind. The writer of Hebrews destroys faith, which is the spiritual sight Christ gives us, and through which we are saved, only by the grace of god.

These three books destroy the things Christ taught, if you'd like to question why I say what I do, please feel free to do so, I can and will explain why I say this, and will consider anyargumentive neverheard, I would just askyoualsodothe same.

[RB]

Of course Peter and Paul preached different gospels, Peter brought back the teachings of the Pharisees, when he fell from grace.

Galatians 2:11-14

It is by grace we are saved, but we are saved through faith.

The writer of Hebrews also brings back a different gospel, not a new one, but one that has never been so prevelant as it is today. Jesus came to bring us understanding, he came to open our eyes, not to lead us around withbiys and pieces of evidence keeping us blind. The writer of Hebrews destroys faith, which is the spiritual sight Christ gives us, and through which we are saved, only by the grace of god.

These three books destroy the things Christ taught, if you'd like to question why I say what I do, please feel free to do so, I can and will explain why I say this, and will consider anyargumentive neverheard, I would just askyoualsodothe same.

Go back where you came from.

[chosenone]

All of the bible is Gods word, anyone who casts doubt on parts of the bible because they dont like what it says, is in serious error and treading on thin ice. Its happening a lot now, undermining the bible as Gods word.
I had this happen yesterday on a discussion site. A 'christian' gay man was casting doubt on Pauls contribution to the bible because of course Paul forbids sex between those of the same sex.

[notreligus]

The leaders of the church at Jerusalem (James, Peter and John) emphasized Jesus' death; Paul emphasized all that Jesus had gone through to save mankind, and especially emphasized His resurrection.    Paul gave greater emphasis to the spiritual aspects of Christ's finished work on behalf of mankind.   

[dan p]

  Hi and  IF  there is only one gospel . then How were people saved from Adam   until  Moses in  Rom 5:14 ??

dan p

[winsome]

1. Scripture mentions the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the UNcircumcision. That is TWO gospels. We need to know which gospel is in operation TODAY.

That's interesting. Would you care to point to where scripture says that.

[winsome]

  Hi and  IF  there is only one gospel . then How were people saved from Adam   until  Moses in  Rom 5:14 ??

dan p

The meritorious cause of our Justification from Adam to this day is the Passion and Death of  Jesus Christ.
If you claim it is our faith (whether alone or not) then you are claiming that we save ourselves.

[4WD]

The meritorious cause of our Justification from Adam to this day is the Passion and Death of  Jesus Christ.
If you claim it is our faith (whether alone or not) then you are claiming that we save ourselves.

We have been justified by God through our faith just as was Abraham:  Gen 15:6  And he [Abram] believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.

[winsome]

We have been justified by God through our faith just as was Abraham:  Gen 15:6  And he [Abram] believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.

And how does that negate what I said?

[winsome]

Under Judaism, the plan of salvation is given in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". Salvation is dependent upon believing (ie: faith) plus being baptized in water. And so you have the formula -faith plus works=salvation. And when one STUDIES the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, this theme of faith plus works is repeated over and over again. Here are some examples:

Where is salvation by baptism ever taught under the Old Covenant?

Baptism is mandated as the entrance into the New Covenant.

[notreligus]

  Hi and  IF  there is only one gospel . then How were people saved from Adam   until  Moses in  Rom 5:14 ??

dan p

Re:  Romans 5:14. Sin originated with the first Adam.   Relief from sin- real and permanent relief, not a temporary relief - originated with the Second Adam, Jesus Christ.

The well-meaning Dispensationals and the deceitful liberal theologians who want to discredit the Pentateuch as though it were assembled as the Qu'ran was assembled by various writers, have made it hard for many Christians to grasp what is meant by "the righteous shall live by faith."   Faith has always been what God expected from those who claim to be His people.   

Dispensationals would have us to believe that we are still under an Old Covenant but with Grace having been temporarily inserted (i.e. this "Church age is parenthetical) to allow Gentiles to be saved.    The Liberal theologians make it impossible for Jesus to have spoken the truth in John Chapter Five when Jesus told the Jews that Moses had condemned them by their disbelief in what Moses had said about Jesus in the Pentateuch.   Jesus Himself claims the Pentateuch, including the Book of Genesis, to be authoritative to the point that disbelief in what Moses had revealed about Him condemned the unbelieving Jews, yet liberals in the Church would have us believe that Jesus is simple-minded, like the rest of us who believe that the Pentateuch is authoritative. 

Galatians 3:11  Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."

[notreligus]

Where is salvation by baptism ever taught under the Old Covenant?

Mikveh immersion was part of Judaism.   I don't believe Judaism is based only in Scripture but many defend what the Jews believe, including Rabbinic Judaism.   The Temple in Jerusalem had a mikveh with piped-in water to simulate flowing water as there would be with immersion in a river or stream.   Many Messianics today will take their hands and stir-up the water before they immerse someone.    Jews were not required to have a witness when they immersed their bodies into the mikveh.  They did need to be submerged enough that the water covered their heads.  The Essenes practiced mikveh immersion anytime that they became ritually unclean and normal bodily functions could be responsible for that.   

When Peter told the Jews to be immersed on the Day of Pentecost he wasn't proclaiming some new Christian baptism unknown by the Jews, but there have been denominations built on this belief that this was some new practice for the Church.   Rabbis had established synagogues in nearly all of the larger cities before Christ came to the Earth as the Messiah.   Their oral teachings became the Oral Law and eventually these oral teachings were assembled in writing as the Talmud.   Peter was commanding that the Jews repent, which meant to turn away from Moses as their leader, and come under the authority of the true Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ.   

[winsome]

Mikveh immersion was part of Judaism.   I don't believe Judaism is based only in Scripture but many defend what the Jews believe, including Rabbinic Judaism.   The Temple in Jerusalem had a mikveh with piped-in water to simulate flowing water as there would be with immersion in a river or stream.   Many Messianics today will take their hands and stir-up the water before they immerse someone.    Jews were not required to have a witness when they immersed their bodies into the mikveh.  They did need to be submerged enough that the water covered their heads.  The Essenes practiced mikveh immersion anytime that they became ritually unclean and normal bodily functions could be responsible for that.   

When Peter told the Jews to be immersed on the Day of Pentecost he wasn't proclaiming some new Christian baptism unknown by the Jews, but there have been denominations built on this belief that this was some new practice for the Church.   Rabbis had established synagogues in nearly all of the larger cities before Christ came to the Earth as the Messiah.   Their oral teachings became the Oral Law and eventually these oral teachings were assembled in writing as the Talmud.   Peter was commanding that the Jews repent, which meant to turn away from Moses as their leader, and come under the authority of the true Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, I know about mikvahs. They were for ritual cleansing not for salvation. They prefigured baptism

And when Peter told people to be baptised on the day of Pentecost it certainly was a new thing. Not new in terms of the practice but new in terms of the purpose. It was mandated by Jesus - Mt 28:19 and Mk 16:16.

Peter knew baptism was salvific and he said so - 1Pet 3:20-21. I know some people will squirm and claim that when Peter said:
"....eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you" he didn't mean what he said,

[4WD]

And how does that negate what I said?

It is our faith, in contrast to what you said, i.e.,

If you claim it is our faith (whether alone or not) then you are claiming that we save ourselves.

From Abraham, and before, until now it has always been by God through the faith of the one being declared righteous, i.e., Justified.

[winsome]

It is our faith, in contrast to what you said, i.e.,From Abraham, and before, until now it has always been by God through the faith of the one being declared righteous, i.e., Justified.

You don't think Jesus' Passion and Death was the cause of our Justification?