Not sure what's the right thing to do.

[Leanne]

Hello all, I find myself in a bit of a conundrum and I'm not sure what to do about my 16 year old son, Dexter. Now Dex is a fine young man, he's respectful, friendly, charitable, knowledgable and kind of heart and would otherwise be very proud of the person he is becoming. He holds down a job, volunteers for community events and performs well at school. However, I feel he is falling into a life of sin and am not sure how to deal with this.

Firstly, he is not a Christian. He is very much an atheist and has a very materialistic view of the world. He's up to date with the latest science and has a very good understanding about chemistry and physics, taking an almost obsessive interest in biology and medical science. He is very technologically adept and is getting mostly As and Bs at school but this has lead to what I feel as a very cold world view that has him wandering off the Lord's path. He even describes himself as a 'moral nihilist' who believes there is no objective right or wrong, dismissing them as irrational, impulsive dichotomies that humans as a species instinctively make and choosing, in his words, "a secular, ethical framework where one needs only not harm with the exception to prevent harm; where rights are allocated with a utilitarian means to a deontological end and; necessities entitled egalitarianally while beyond that are entitled meritocratically." As a biblical literalist, you may find that we don't often see eye to eye on such things as marriage, evolution and politics- often running rings around me with the knowledge at his disposal seeing he too has read not only The Bible but texts of other major religions as well as many journal articles and political commentators from Karl Marx to Ayn Rand.

I think that this godless view has turned him into something of a libertine. He has expressed that he is bisexual and as I am aware he is in several sexual relationships with both females and males. I suspect he may also be taking drugs due to the fact I have overheard him describing a hangover and how he doesn't smoke because he thinks tobacco tastes disgusting. To add to my suspicions, I have overheard some of his friends that they won't go past MDMA or cannabis onto 'harder stuff'.

I am not sure if his scientific world view alone has lead to this or if there are other factors. He does play some violent video games and listens to some less-than-clean music, the artists he mentions include "Deathstars", "Cradle of Filth" and "Thy Art is Murder". I thought it may be his friends but that could also just be a generational thing making these sort of life choices. I also lost my husband to pancreatic cancer 11 years ago so his teenage years have been without a father figure.

The conundrum is that he seems to be functioning fine in this state. He has plenty of friends, I get positive comments from his teachers and as I've said his marks reflect this, he holds down his job and he seems to be working very well in that environment. It's just that I don't see that his lifestyle choices of this cold, materialistic hedonism are the sort of things that will have him join the Lord in heaven. On the other hand, because he's functioning just as he is and I don't know if it is worth the inevitable conflict that this will lead to. What if he is right and that if he chooses to do this, as long as he harms no one else, is something I should let him go on. Would I be a good mother if I risked his eternal damnation? What's more worrying is that his sister who is a very faithful soul is very close to him and if this sort of world view is detrimental, I don't want him possibly unintentionally bringing her down with him.

So, any advice on what to do? I really feel I am as a cross roads here, does anyone else have a similar situation? I feel that I can only pray that he finds his way back to Christ's light.

[Helen]

He's 16.  He's rebelling.  Don't take it terribly seriously.  God loves him even more than you do, even though you might think that's impossible.  You said in his qualities that he is charitable and kind of heart.  So his words are a front.  During the teen years the brain itself is changing -- neurons are dropping some connections and making others.  It's a confusing time for teens and their families. 

Do NOT make a big thing of 'religion.'  He knows where you stand.  Mentally, he's trying out the opposite.  He is also responding to a lot of what he is learning in school and science.  If he is interested in physics, he may be interested in my husband's website.  Barry is a physicist, astronomer and geologist (yes, professional in all three) as well as a strong Christian and a creationist.  Not only that, gasp, he is a young-universe creationist -- because of the data, not "just the Bible."  Our website just got over a six month mess-up with the server and as of yesterday I can finally get back on and start cleaning things up, so right now there are links that don't work and such, but I'll be fixing them.  At any rate, he might be interested -- show him 'research papers' at first, or 'Setterfield Simplified.'  You might be interested in 'Scripture' -- especially the Genesis study, as it contains the science that shows this is a very young universe.  www.setterfield.org

I raised six.  Five were adopted.  Some are wonderful Christians today and some aren't.  We can't eliminate the freedom God has given each of us to choose our reaction to Christ.  You have done what you can do to show your son the right way.  Within a year or two, he will start mentally wrestling with God himself.  Prayers are your best right now -- and a very relaxed attitude regardless of what he is spouting off about.  He's experimenting with ideas.

[chosenone]

Leanne

You cant force a teenager to believe what you want them to believe can you. You can only love them and pray for them and claim Gods promises for them, and leave them in His hands. Many teenagers do go off track at his age, and many do eventually find the right path eventually.
I was a single mum for 6 years when 2 of my children were teenagers, and I know its hard, but God is your husband and he is looking out for you and them.
'The power of praying for your children' is a good book written by Stormie Omartian. She has also got one called 'The Power of praying for your adult children'. The prayers are entirely scriptural.

[Leanne]

Thank you very much for your posts so far.

I guess you're right and that I should hope these prayers will bring him back to Christ. He just worries me sometimes, even this morning I found another boy in his bed with him. I hope sincerely that this is just a phase.

Oh, I did mentions that to him as soon as I read it! He said that he recognized his name in the creationist cosmological "starlight problem".  He asked me to say that it was unfrtunate how little material you had published and how difficult some of the claims he stated were verifiable or falsifiable. He also asked if your husband knows about the SN 1987A's interaction with circumstellar material. I sometimes use his e-mail so perhaps he could get in an exchange with your husband?

God bless you all.

[Helen]

Yes, Barry knows about SN1987A and your son can find material on that in our discussion section.  Quite a bit of material has been published and the most recent is "Cosmology and the Zero Point Energy," a 465 page monograph published as part of the proceedings (in its own cover) of the recent NPA conference (an international science organization).  It encompasses over 35 years of Barry's research and how the data comes together.  Barry would be happy to correspond with your son.  We can be reached through our website and all emails get answered. 

Meanwhile, what do you mean you found another boy in bed with him?  This is something you can definitely lay down the law about in your own home! 

[Leanne]

Meanwhile, what do you mean you found another boy in bed with him?  This is something you can definitely lay down the law about in your own home!

That you could be sure of, I grounded him for 2 weeks.

Anyways, I apologize for any typos because I haven't been getting much sleep seeing while I was up for a midnight snack and he was still up on his laptop because he has very strange sleeping patterns, he actually approached me about some of my concerns which is odd seeing he isn't exactly known for his assertiveness. He might have been wiping history or I might have left this tab open because he actually found this thread and he seems genuinely surprised that I had these concerns. He, after reading the original post, seemed really perplexed about why his behavior was something to worry about, to all atheists have this lack of moral compass where there is no inherent wrong and as long as it doesn't immediately harm anyone it's okay?

I'm kicking myself a little bit because asked me if I'm proud of him. Of course I'm proud of him: he's getting top grades, he does voluntary work, he holds down employment and by the way he handles those who wrong him I think that he exemplifies Christs teachings of turning the other cheek, loving thy neighbor and being quick to forgive than I believe many Christians do. I'm somewhat regretting him finding this now if he's asking things like if I felt he was a son to me or that if I felt my faith felt persecuted by him - I'm not even sure where he got those ideas from.

I think the conversation could be round up when he used the analogy of being told to stay away from the fire when he's standing in the fireplace and it's completely empty when I responded that it was more akin to a toddler not understanding that the fire is dangerous and them stumbling towards the fireplace. So I don't know if this conversation was progress or not. I mean I'm glad he knows where I'm coming from but, on the other hand,  I'd hate to have him feel that I doubt him any. I just feel I keep running into hurdles is all.

I do appreciate the support to you guys :) .

[PeaceofMind]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

[Adeptus Astartes]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

[PeaceofMind]

Sorry charlie, but you have no clue what you speak of.

The video is a group of renowned scientist debunking the lies and myths.

There is design in many things that only an intelligent designer can be responsible for.

I challenge you to watch the video, I will watch a video of your choice, and you will then be a changed person.

This lady asked for help, she didn't ask for someone like you to butt in with  debate type tactics. Utterly bad judgement on your part, there is a time and place for that.

[tpm]

Leanne

When I read your description of your son, it reminded me of myself at his age, with the exception of the bisexual and drug parts.  I did drink and I was sexually active, however.

I think the scientifically-gifted have a harder time coming to Christ.  I was 41 when I finally accepted Jesus.  It was a topic I wrestled with for a long time over many years.  What I'm saying is that it will take time for him to figure it all out, but you have to let him do it on his own.  The more religion is pushed on him, the more he will resist it and pick it apart.  I know because that's what I did.  That said, I wouldn't put any Creationist documentaries in front of him.  He is curious enough to find them on his own eventually anyway.

He sounds like a decent young man at heart, and that, I think, matters more than what he professes to believe during his teenage years.  I professed to believe lots of things, many along the same lines as your son.  (I read everything Ayn Rand wrote my freshman year in college; she was one of my favorites.  Didn't much care for Marx though.)  Right now he is simply awestruck by all the knowledge he is accumulating, but it will take him time to sort it all out in his head.  Give it to him.  In the meantime, love him and pray for him, as my mother did for me.  I bet he comes back to the LORD sooner than I did.

God bless you and your son and daughter.

[Adeptus Astartes]

Sorry charlie, but you have no clue what you speak of.

The video is a group of renowned scientist debunking the lies and myths.

There is design in many things that only an intelligent designer can be responsible for.

I challenge you to watch the video, I will watch a video of your choice, and you will then be a changed person.

This lady asked for help, she didn't ask for someone like you to butt in with  debate type tactics. Utterly bad judgement on your part, there is a time and place for that.

I've watched it. I'm relevant to this, I'm her son! My name is Dexter, how are you?

[chosenone]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort. 

[Adeptus Astartes]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort.

I don't really comment on the people who made it, but the things in those docos are really bad.
"Oh, if we kill burst a bacterium in a test tube, nothing you can to will make it reassemble" when anyone who knows anythin about hypotheses of abiogensis would understand why that is hilarious.
"The universe is so finely tuned for organisms like us", and I'm sure the landscape was made perfectly so this puddle would be that shape.
"Look at the information that is in DNA, information doesn't just com into existence" except there's just matter and what we see as meaningful has meaning to us. 'ksvgd' and 'jesus' are exctctly the same amount of information rather than the formr having none, it's just the latter actually means something to us!.

Its full of this. Also, even if they're right, which they're really really not, toddlers could give a better synopsis of "The Lord of the Rings" than these documentaries summarize established scientific theories, than how do they get to a god? We know life exists, we could have been designed by another form of life! Or, we know computers exist, we could be a program on a hard drive! Or let's take it it's a god? What if it's the muslim ones? Those shows aren't convincing, I'm sorry.

[tpm]

Sorry charlie, but you have no clue what you speak of.

The video is a group of renowned scientist debunking the lies and myths.

There is design in many things that only an intelligent designer can be responsible for.

I challenge you to watch the video, I will watch a video of your choice, and you will then be a changed person.

This lady asked for help, she didn't ask for someone like you to butt in with  debate type tactics. Utterly bad judgement on your part, there is a time and place for that.

I've watched it. I'm relevant to this, I'm her son! My name is Dexter, how are you?

Hi Dexter!  It is nice to "meet" you.

I read some of your other posts, especially those related to the theory of evolution and genetic mutations.  From an academic standpoint, you are very much like me 25 years ago, although I was more into astronomy and physics and not so much into biology.  I wish I knew what to say to you, and I keep thinking of what would have made a difference had someone said it to me when I was your age.  I think it is this: "You do not know as much as you think you do."  Those words from the right person might have made a difference and saved me 25 years of poor choices.  However, you don't know me and that makes me not the "right" person.  It would have to come from someone you respect deeply on an intellectual level, and maybe even then it wouldn't make a difference.

I will share one insight with you that was pivotal for me.  You've studied some physics.  You are familiar with the principle of symmetry I presume.  I'm not talking about super-symmetry, just the general concept that physical systems (like the universe) are symmetric unless there is some reason for them not to be.  The most obvious example of asymmetry without explanation is first-person consciousness -- the fact that I am this one person with a completely asymmetric view of the universe.  I could have accepted consciousness and remained agnostic, as long as it was all third-person consciousness with no "I" to speak of.  Something for you to think about.

Regardless of how this conversation goes, I encourage you to continue exploring intellectually.  Eventually I believe you will end up in the right place.

By the way, would you characterize yourself as agnostic or atheist?

Warmest regards,

Todd

[Adeptus Astartes]

As far as I know, the role of symmetry in physics is important in simplifying solutions to many problems, spacetime symmetries finding ample application in the study of exact solutions of Einstein's field equations of general relativity. Symmetries are features of spacetime that can be described as exhibiting some form of symmetry. Besides, I don't consider consciousness to be an entity bur rather just an electrochemical function of which perspective is just a consequence of.

I am an agnostic atheist, the two positions are positions on different questions and are therefore no mutually exclusive.

Um, message me if you want to talk further on this, I'll be on a camping trip til the new year.

[chosenone]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort.

I don't really comment on the people who made it, but the things in those docos are really bad.
"Oh, if we kill burst a bacterium in a test tube, nothing you can to will make it reassemble" when anyone who knows anythin about hypotheses of abiogensis would understand why that is hilarious.
"The universe is so finely tuned for organisms like us", and I'm sure the landscape was made perfectly so this puddle would be that shape.
"Look at the information that is in DNA, information doesn't just com into existence" except there's just matter and what we see as meaningful has meaning to us. 'ksvgd' and 'jesus' are exctctly the same amount of information rather than the formr having none, it's just the latter actually means something to us!.

Its full of this. Also, even if they're right, which they're really really not, toddlers could give a better synopsis of "The Lord of the Rings" than these documentaries summarize established scientific theories, than how do they get to a god? We know life exists, we could have been designed by another form of life! Or, we know computers exist, we could be a program on a hard drive! Or let's take it it's a god? What if it's the muslim ones? Those shows aren't convincing, I'm sorry.

What I meant was that its sad that you feel you have to watch them, just to make fun of them and laugh at them. Why bother if you don't like what you see? 

For me I only need to watch one of the amazing series that have been made by the BBC and David Attenborough about our amazing world around us, to KNOW that there is a very intelligent, amazing, creative and awesome God who was behind it all. Thing like that don't just appear from nothing.

[Adeptus Astartes]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort.

I don't really comment on the people who made it, but the things in those docos are really bad.
"Oh, if we kill burst a bacterium in a test tube, nothing you can to will make it reassemble" when anyone who knows anythin about hypotheses of abiogensis would understand why that is hilarious.
"The universe is so finely tuned for organisms like us", and I'm sure the landscape was made perfectly so this puddle would be that shape.
"Look at the information that is in DNA, information doesn't just com into existence" except there's just matter and what we see as meaningful has meaning to us. 'ksvgd' and 'jesus' are exctctly the same amount of information rather than the formr having none, it's just the latter actually means something to us!.

Its full of this. Also, even if they're right, which they're really really not, toddlers could give a better synopsis of "The Lord of the Rings" than these documentaries summarize established scientific theories, than how do they get to a god? We know life exists, we could have been designed by another form of life! Or, we know computers exist, we could be a program on a hard drive! Or let's take it it's a god? What if it's the muslim ones? Those shows aren't convincing, I'm sorry.

What I meant was that its sad that you feel you have to watch them, just to make fun of them and laugh at them. Why bother if you don't like what you see? 

For me I only need to watch one of the amazing series that have been made by the BBC and David Attenborough about our amazing world around us, to KNOW that there is a very intelligent, amazing, creative and awesome God who was behind it all. Thing like that don't just appear from nothing.

Mostly they're recommended to one of us and  if any of us others haven't seen it, we have a look and usually a laugh.

See, accepting how meaningless life is and that we are just a chemical accident, I think, makes it all the more  beautiful. How  awesome that the natural laws of the universe resulted in a chemical reaction on this bit of molten dust with some pretty properties. I find how finite it is coupled with how mundane the reality of it personally gives it so much more meaning. If everything around us, everything that we value and even those thoughts are the best that this cold and dark universe can come up with, that makes us precious!

If it was by design though, then I'm asking for money back. The fact that thin mortality sucks so much that termination of function is inivitable (especially with things like the hole through which we breathe is the hole through which we eat, telomeres degrade worse than a drunk conversation, our genetic code makes so many fatal mistakes that a part of out immune system is dedicated to killing our own cells and even that backup system sucks. I mean a lioness succeeds and hunting down a slower, smaller buffalo then a baby dies. If she fails than her cub staves and a baby dies - Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" - ....right....

[chosenone]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort.

I don't really comment on the people who made it, but the things in those docos are really bad.
"Oh, if we kill burst a bacterium in a test tube, nothing you can to will make it reassemble" when anyone who knows anythin about hypotheses of abiogensis would understand why that is hilarious.
"The universe is so finely tuned for organisms like us", and I'm sure the landscape was made perfectly so this puddle would be that shape.
"Look at the information that is in DNA, information doesn't just com into existence" except there's just matter and what we see as meaningful has meaning to us. 'ksvgd' and 'jesus' are exctctly the same amount of information rather than the formr having none, it's just the latter actually means something to us!.

Its full of this. Also, even if they're right, which they're really really not, toddlers could give a better synopsis of "The Lord of the Rings" than these documentaries summarize established scientific theories, than how do they get to a god? We know life exists, we could have been designed by another form of life! Or, we know computers exist, we could be a program on a hard drive! Or let's take it it's a god? What if it's the muslim ones? Those shows aren't convincing, I'm sorry.

What I meant was that its sad that you feel you have to watch them, just to make fun of them and laugh at them. Why bother if you don't like what you see? 

For me I only need to watch one of the amazing series that have been made by the BBC and David Attenborough about our amazing world around us, to KNOW that there is a very intelligent, amazing, creative and awesome God who was behind it all. Thing like that don't just appear from nothing.

Mostly they're recommended to one of us and  if any of us others haven't seen it, we have a look and usually a laugh.

See, accepting how meaningless life is and that we are just a chemical accident, I think, makes it all the more  beautiful. How  awesome that the natural laws of the universe resulted in a chemical reaction on this bit of molten dust with some pretty properties. I find how finite it is coupled with how mundane the reality of it personally gives it so much more meaning. If everything around us, everything that we value and even those thoughts are the best that this cold and dark universe can come up with, that makes us precious!

If it was by design though, then I'm asking for money back. The fact that thin mortality sucks so much that termination of function is inivitable (especially with things like the hole through which we breathe is the hole through which we eat, telomeres degrade worse than a drunk conversation, our genetic code makes so many fatal mistakes that a part of out immune system is dedicated to killing our own cells and even that backup system sucks. I mean a lioness succeeds and hunting down a slower, smaller buffalo then a baby dies. If she fails than her cub staves and a baby dies - Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" - ....right....

Yes but it was good. Many things in the world happen because of the fall. In heaven animals wont kill each other and neither will we because there will be so sin and no effects of sin. I simply adore animals, and hate to see any suffer, and I cant wait to be able to see and stroke and hug all sorts of animals in heaven and to see them coexisting with each other.

I simply cant believe that all around us just happened and came from nothing. I only have to see the world around and understand more and more of the incredible complexities of our bodies(as often described by my husband as he does more and more of his research) to know that there is an awesome and very intelligent creator behind it all.

Have a great Christmas Dex.

[Leanne]

Wow, my first thread here was revived, was it? I guess we should play catch up.

Me and my son have actually spoken a lot, especially in regards to why he pursues excessive behaviors. I have a family history of depression and I often cope with over eating, I think my son also has an easily addictive personality but is rather a glutton of all extreme sensation, both pleasurable and painful, unlike me which is just food. He also fell a little love sick with one of his encounters and is now in a more exclusive relationship which is far less harmful than gender blind promiscuity.

So things are much better, we're talking a lot more and he still frequents bible study (although he brings character to it whenever he does) as well as my partner having convinced him in attending church (admittedly it's because he just like their music but listening to more of that means less of that satanic cacophony he fancies).

Thankyou again for you responses, he's on a camping from from the 26th to the 2nd with my boyfriend. I don't know if he can survive on such little internet access for so long but we'll see.

[Smithy]

Leanne,
I am a teacher and mother of two children ages 14 and 21.  I think the best thing you can do is be an example in word and deed and do not tolerate any conduct you find uncomfortable and unacceptable.  He is under your authority whether he likes it or not.  Remember that each person must decide in his heart whether or not to accept that Jesus Christ is real and the saviour of the world.  It is difficult to live with someone who does not share your conviction especially when it is your own child.  After he is grown and out of your home, he is no longer under your authority, just the law of the land and Gods- whether he believes in Him or not.  Sow what you can now and again be an example in word and deed and do not tolerate any conduct you find uncomfortable and unacceptable.  My two cents.
Smithy

[Adeptus Astartes]

Leanne, God bless you and your son, fervent prayer works, keep at it.

For starters you can show him scientists who not only argue for the existence of God, but in my mind prove there is an intelligent designer ( God )

I watched a youtube video by scientists recently that blew me away and makes me think most scientists, in actuality, believe there is a creator.

Video youtube : THE SIGNS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE ( THE BIG BANG / HOW IT ALL BEGAN )

If he watched this video it might have a profound effect on him. My brother was an atheist, watched this film with me and stated " some scientists are hiding the facts because they have an agenda, I don't know who God is, but I now know there is a God.

DON'T YOU DARE, NO, UH-UH, WRONG, DON'T, NO!

Do you know what I do with creationist, uh, 'documentaries'? I get together with friends and we laugh at them while destroying and nitpicking every fallacious thing they do. I have this thing where I won't insult anything she believes, although I'll respond if she brings anything up on her terms, so don't encourage her to give me more of that tripe please? Thank you.

Thats sad Dex, there are many such documentaries by very very intelligent scientists who have deeply studied such things.
Personally I have no idea how anyone can watch any such programme about Gods amazing and intricate and elaborate creation and not believe there is an intelligent creator behind it. I actually think you have far more faith to NOT believe that, and to actually think that it was all an 'accident' of some sort.

I don't really comment on the people who made it, but the things in those docos are really bad.
"Oh, if we kill burst a bacterium in a test tube, nothing you can to will make it reassemble" when anyone who knows anythin about hypotheses of abiogensis would understand why that is hilarious.
"The universe is so finely tuned for organisms like us", and I'm sure the landscape was made perfectly so this puddle would be that shape.
"Look at the information that is in DNA, information doesn't just com into existence" except there's just matter and what we see as meaningful has meaning to us. 'ksvgd' and 'jesus' are exctctly the same amount of information rather than the formr having none, it's just the latter actually means something to us!.

Its full of this. Also, even if they're right, which they're really really not, toddlers could give a better synopsis of "The Lord of the Rings" than these documentaries summarize established scientific theories, than how do they get to a god? We know life exists, we could have been designed by another form of life! Or, we know computers exist, we could be a program on a hard drive! Or let's take it it's a god? What if it's the muslim ones? Those shows aren't convincing, I'm sorry.

What I meant was that its sad that you feel you have to watch them, just to make fun of them and laugh at them. Why bother if you don't like what you see? 

For me I only need to watch one of the amazing series that have been made by the BBC and David Attenborough about our amazing world around us, to KNOW that there is a very intelligent, amazing, creative and awesome God who was behind it all. Thing like that don't just appear from nothing.

Mostly they're recommended to one of us and  if any of us others haven't seen it, we have a look and usually a laugh.

See, accepting how meaningless life is and that we are just a chemical accident, I think, makes it all the more  beautiful. How  awesome that the natural laws of the universe resulted in a chemical reaction on this bit of molten dust with some pretty properties. I find how finite it is coupled with how mundane the reality of it personally gives it so much more meaning. If everything around us, everything that we value and even those thoughts are the best that this cold and dark universe can come up with, that makes us precious!

If it was by design though, then I'm asking for money back. The fact that thin mortality sucks so much that termination of function is inivitable (especially with things like the hole through which we breathe is the hole through which we eat, telomeres degrade worse than a drunk conversation, our genetic code makes so many fatal mistakes that a part of out immune system is dedicated to killing our own cells and even that backup system sucks. I mean a lioness succeeds and hunting down a slower, smaller buffalo then a baby dies. If she fails than her cub staves and a baby dies - Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" - ....right....

Yes but it was good. Many things in the world happen because of the fall. In heaven animals wont kill each other and neither will we because there will be so sin and no effects of sin. I simply adore animals, and hate to see any suffer, and I cant wait to be able to see and stroke and hug all sorts of animals in heaven and to see them coexisting with each other.

I simply cant believe that all around us just happened and came from nothing. I only have to see the world around and understand more and more of the incredible complexities of our bodies(as often described by my husband as he does more and more of his research) to know that there is an awesome and very intelligent creator behind it all.

Have a great Christmas Dex.

Thanks, I hope you had a good one too.

Wait a second...

....there's no adaptation, we were intelligently designed.....

....there are these creatures that appear suited to eating meat......

....there was was no death before the fall, a time when these creatures were created.....

....come now, if you want to convince me that there's a god, you have to give me something to accept.

Really, the more I look at life, the less distinct the definition is from other self replicating, self sustaining chemical reactions, just a lot more of them in a self contained systems. Look up opionions on weather or not viruses count as living

[PeaceofMind]

 

Sorry charlie, but you have no clue what you speak of.

The video is a group of renowned scientist debunking the lies and myths.

There is design in many things that only an intelligent designer can be responsible for.

I challenge you to watch the video, I will watch a video of your choice, and you will then be a changed person.

This lady asked for help, she didn't ask for someone like you to butt in with  debate type tactics. Utterly bad judgement on your part, there is a time and place for that.

I've watched it. I'm relevant to this, I'm her son! My name is Dexter, how are you?

In that case you have a right to bring up the subject LOL, but you would agree with me if it was an intruder asking the same question it would be in bad taste, but the subject truly has every right to pipe in.

Just the same, Eienstien stated there was a God and many scientists who formerly were atheist now understand that the univsrse & human body is to complex to be happenstance.

The chance of the universe forming by chance is 1 to the power of 169.

The DNA in man was encoded by someone, a code has to have inteligence behind it.