Need help. Mostly asking the guys. *Graphic*

[Jdoog9]

So some of you may remember my other posts on here. But none of that matters now. Everything came to a head yesterday and she came to me and confessed her physical affair. It only happened once and it destroyed her inside. Which explained all of her behavior over the last few months.

So anyways, I have forgiven her as long as her affair is definitely over. She said that it is. Although she is struggling with writing the letter. She just wants it to be over and says that she is sickened by him an wants nothing to do with him. The good thing is that the other pile of dung is out of the state for the next 2 months and his guard unit is being deployed in January. So that is a huge plus. Plus he no longer works at her store.

But my question (and here is where it gets graphic) is this. How do I get over the visions in my head of him on top of her and inside of her when I make love to her?? And when I kiss her know that his lips and tongue have been there along with his penis. How do I get rid of that and how long does it take for it to go away??? I have those visions periodically throughout the day as well. Not just when I have sex with her. Which has been just once. I've already broken down in tears 3 times today. But I don't want her to feel guilty so I don't let her see me crying. I'm trying to be strong, but I am just a stressed out mess.

[chosenone]

Can I just ask how long the affair went on for, because part of your post seems to imply it was ages, then you said it only happened once.

Sorry I am not a guy,(!) but It will take time and work and Gods healing. This is why affairs are so devastating because of the damage they do to the intimacy and trust between a man and his wife, and this is why many just cant carry on in the marriage.
I do know people who have managed to move on and have a good marriage again, but it wont be easy. Its very early days.

One thing I have to say, is that you will need to forgive this man for there to be real healing. Not easy I know, and it is tempting to blame the other man and not your wife, and to be angry with him and not your wife. However they both choose to sin and she was the married one after all. So well done for forgiving your wife, but he didn't no more than she did.

She may benefit for reading the book called 'Hedges' by Jerry B Jenkins. Its about godly boundaries in our dealings with the opposite sex.

[anx]

Time, a serious commitment to forgive over the long term, pushing yourself to forgive (not just let it happen on its own), books on the subject, and perhaps marriage counseling, personal counseling, or discussions with a skilled pastor.

There definitely isn't a quick of easy path. Feel blessed that things are heading in the right direction. Forgive her because God forgave you every one of your sins. Don't act on the strong feeling that will pull your marriage apart or you towards sin, but seriously commit yourself to a righteous and difficult path. Appreciate how hard this will be and do not be surprised by its length or deepness of pain.

Edit: you will likely have many happy and blessed years with your wife. Finish the work required to make that happen. It is worth the effort and will pay long term dividends.

[chosenone]

I also agree with anx. Some long term Christian marriage counselling may be needed.

Also she SHOULD see you angry/upset/hurt so that she can understand the terrible consequences of what she did. Don't try and hide anything at all, it will only cause emotional problems in you if you try and repress the pain. Is there a Christian guy who you trust that you can go and talk to on a regular basis for a while? Maybe your pastor? If not a counsellor? This is a massive shock, and one that will take a long time to work through.

[DaveW]

Paul warns at various places in his letters against taking up "offenses." The word usually translated "offense" is scandalon.   That (in koine greek) was part of a trap - the box trap with the stick tied to either some bait or to the trapper. That stick was the scandalon.  When the string was pulled, the scandalon would come loose and the box would fall, trapping what ever or whomever under itself.

That is the thing with offenses - once they have been taken up the box falls and we are trapped. And you have done that. You are now inside that trap.

You and your wife BOTH absolutely MUST find a good biblical counselor who can walk you thru the process of putting your marriage back together. Without that, your relationship (if it survives at all) will be scarred and limping; probably permanently.

http://www.nanc.org/Find-a-Counselor  Nouthetic Biblical Counseling website.

[TJW]

You have received good advice on healing your marriage.    I just want you to know....

It is quite normal to have these "mind movies".   Almost everyone who is the victim of infidelity has them. 

I did, too.  For me, it was not so much the "touching" aspects or the "contamination", but rather the thought of her
responding to him sexually that was the more hurtful.
 
I also want you to know that they DO NOT come from "unforgiveness", "hard heart", etc.  like church people will try to tell you.
They are just a normal, human reaction which will fade over the next months and years.

she is struggling with writing the letter. She just wants it to be over and says that she is sickened by him an wants nothing to do with him

This is a complete non-sequitur.  If she "just wanted it to be over", "sickened", "nothing to do" ?  There would be no "struggle".

It only happened once and it destroyed her inside.

Yeah.  And, other "trickle truth", like  "the check's in the mail".

That's the other thing that happens in most affair aftermaths.  "Trickle truth".  Done in an effort to "damage control", but it backfires. 
It only releases the agony over a protracted period.

[DaveW]

she is struggling with writing the letter. She just wants it to be over and says that she is sickened by him an wants nothing to do with him

This is a complete non-sequitur.  If she "just wanted it to be over", "sickened", "nothing to do" ?  There would be no "struggle".

Actually it makes perfect sense if she is trying to deny to herself that it ever happened.  That may be her mode of moving past something - denial.

Writing the letter makes it real.

[TJW]

It only happened once and it destroyed her inside. Which explained all of her behavior over the last few months.

This is not plausible.  Something which happens once affects behavior once.

What can affect behavior over months has to be something which happens in continuum over months.

No affair ever happens "once".  The occurrence of sex may be only once during the affair.  However, affairs do not usually begin an hour before the people go to a motel. 

And, most of the time, "only once" turns out to be a lie.

[Jdoog9]

Thank you everyone. She actually confessed more to me last night. Basically stuck to the only did it once. But there was the exchange of dirty pictures and other times of him touching her and her giving him oral And she gave him oral because she didn't want to have sex with him. To which I replied "If you didn't want to have sex with him, why didn't you just say back off, I'm married or flat out NO?" She said that she did tell him that a few times but he persisted until she gave in.

She also seemed to be more open to writing the NC letter as well. She also said that she can see that we are not going to get through this as long as I have questions going through my mind and that whatever I want to know I need to just ask her. But the thing is, do I really want to know some of this stuff? I mean yes, I want to know when the first physical contact was, how they avoided detection and so forth. But I don't know if I want to know if she spit or swallowed. Even though that stuff goes through my mind all of the time it seems.

After she told me what she told me last night, I could start to piece it together. I could almost pinpoint the dates that she did stuff with him based on her countenance. But I feel like the dad in a River Runs Through It when his son is killed. He wanted to know every little detail down to which bones were broken and where. I struggle with wanting to know every minute detail even though I know that I don't want to hear it. But I feel like I need to hear it so that my mind can't wander at all and then maybe I can heal quicker.

When she told me that he was being deployed I told her that I will be hoping like heck for an IED. And if he does get killed, I will go to his funeral and hang with the westboro Baptist scumbags and let them know what the piece of crap did. I actually wouldn't ever do that or hope for that, but it sounded good and made me feel a little bit better.

And she will be getting tested for std's. She already has the appointment made. I'm not sure what caused her to confess, I never asked. I wasn't sure that I wanted to know. I just feel like as much as I thought that I needed to hear things, I need even more to realize that nothing can change what happened and only I can decide my happiness right now and moving forward. But I do suspect that it was due to my detective work. But I had also been praying daily that the guilt of what she was doing would consume and break her. So I believe firmly that God had a hand in it.

I did call one of OM's lovers (he has 2-3, and seems to enjoy married women) ex husbands and found out that she has HPV and never uses protection. OM found out and went nuts on her. Told her that I was crazy and that I, yes you read that correctly, I crossed the line. Then, because I used a throw away phone and a false name, asked her why he would think that it is me?? Because I told the guy that the OM I was asking about was indeed having sex with my wife. And if that hadn't happened, then why would OM even think that it was me? Then I found out that after she had gotten rid of OM...HA! That she was still contacting him. I asked her about it and she lied to me. I then told her what I knew and the tears and confession flowed out.


I have warned her many times that everything MUST be real and true. She also has given me all of her passwords...at least I hope that's all of them. The thing is, and I told her this, is that because of all of the lies and sneaking around, I am having a hard time trusting anything that she says. But, and she doesn't know this part, if I catch her lying about anything, it will be over.


I want R more that anything, but I am sick of being lied to and crapped on. I've put on like 30-40lbs since this started. I just want to lay in bed and eat pizza and ice cream. So I need to take all of those feelings and turn it into making myself better. I just need to get over that initial hump to get off of my fat butt and do it. I have nobody that I can really talk to, so I am so thankful that this website is here.

I guess what really gets me upset is that she is the one that cheated, the OM also had a hand in it as well. She said that she to him no and that she was married quite a few times before she finally gave in. And here I am in misery and the OM get to gallivant around proud that he banged a pastors wife and gets off scott free. And if we were to get a D, then our 5 children would have there lives rocked horribly as well. Why is it that the offenders are the ones that have the least amount of punishment? And the was that were innocent are the ones that get trampled on??

[TJW]

But I don't know if I want to know if she spit or swallowed.

Some things are better to "wonder" than to know.

This is the stuff that ruins the marriage.   The betrayed learns that his wife did things with her affair partner that she doesn't do with him, that the affair partner is "better" or "bigger" or in some way more desirable than him, etc. 

My advice is to not go there.  Cheaters are sometimes quite cruel to "justify" their actions by "spinning" the truth of their clandestine relationship so as to impugn and indict their betrayed spouse as the "problem", the "reason why" she cheated in the first place. 

if I catch her lying about anything, it will be over.

Then, get ready for it to be over.  You haven't come to the end of the lies yet. 

[chosenone]

Well that's why adultery is so terribly serious, and why God allows divorce for it, because its so horrible and painful for those who didn't do anything wrong. Also he doesn't get off scot free does he, one day he will pay for it, and if it isnt in this life it will be in the next. I have no idea why some women will stoop so low as to go after a man like that.

I am very disturbed by her idea that actually having sexual intercourse is wrong, but having oral sex is ok??? To me they are equally as bad. This may explain her statement that it only happened once(meaning full sex only happend once). However most people who cheat say it only happened once.

I am also concerned that she is blaming the other man for putting pressure on her. Sorry but she is the married one here, and she didn't have to allow herself to be alone with him to enable him to do that. She needs to take full responsibility for her decision to carry on and on meeting him and doing the things she did with him.
Only you can  know if you can trust her again. You may never know if she would have owned up if you hadn't had suspicions.

You do have 5 children to think of here, so its worth giving it time and getting some help for you both. I am glad she is being tested for STD's. I hope that she hasnt caught anything and passed it on to you.

[chosenone]

But I don't know if I want to know if she spit or swallowed.

This is the stuff that ruins the marriage.   The betrayed learns that his wife did things with her affair partner that she doesn't do with him, that the affair partner is "better" or "bigger" or in some way more desirable than him.

My advice is to not go there.  Cheaters are sometimes quite cruel to "justify" their actions by "spinning" the truth of their clandestine relationship so as to impugn and indict their betrayed spouse as the "problem", the "reason why" she cheated in the first place.

if I catch her lying about anything, it will be over.

Then, get ready for it to be over.  You haven't come to the end of the lies yet. 

I agree. Often those who cheat will say as little as they can to get away with it.

[Virtuous1]

Hi,
I know you said you weren't really seeking advice from women. I understand, and I want to be respectful of that.  However, I was touched by the question you asked about why these types of things happen to the people who love the Lord, and the sinners seem to get off easily. 
First of all, it's a blessing to see your desire to put your family and your ministry first by making efforts to cope, and to forgive your wife.  So many people would choose to do what would seem to be in their own best interest, especially when it's lawful to do so.  I think that God is being represented in a powerful way by the fact that you have the right to leave, and let her be to blame, but you have chosen to love and forgive, and even suffer to do so.
It reminds me of how the Bible says that husbands are to love their wives like Christ loved the church and gave His life for it. You seem willing to suffer for the woman you chose to love for better or for worse. God Bless you for that! 
That is what God does for us. We disappoint Him, but He forgives, and He restores. 
As a Pastor, I'm sure God wants you to be above average when it comes to navigating through the trails of life.
Although this has to be painful, it seems clear that there is one thing you will certainly take from this experience, and that is that you will powerfully understand first hand what it is like to have to forgive those who let you down to the point of deep pain, sorrow, and suffering.
I'm a firm believer that the best teachers are the ones who don't just tell you what they've read in God's word, but the ones who tell you what they've read and lived, or even survived. 
You obviously love your wife in spite of her transgressions, and you seem to want your marriage to recover. I sincerely hope that this situation, and the process of reconciliation will open her eyes and help her see  more clearly that she has a greater responsibility to her family.  I think your love will help, because you are leading by example. 
I also think that your choice to love her through this will serve as a strong ministry to her, because she obviously is very unaware of her value if she is willing to entertain the idea of an act that is so demeaning to you, to herself, and to your family. 
I think that it's God who is giving you the grace to stay with her, so that she can perhaps finally feel the kind of love that we who truly understand the message of the cross feel. Jesus took our punishment, and paid for our sins through pain and suffering.
Maybe she can't yet understand suffering for the sake of love, and maybe she doesn't understand what Jesus did for us on the cross. But perhaps as she sees the suffering you are going through as you work to move past this, she can better understand how her choice to sin can ultimately punish those who she loves, and they sometimes wear the pain of her bad decisions.
Only God is a master at how to minister effectively to each individual. Bless Him for His skillful mastery!
Sometimes He uses His strong disciples to model Jesus' love for people. The Bible says, "We have to know Him in the fellowship of His suffering." You are suffering, but I believe that in the end if you stay faithful to God, and trust in His love for you, this whole ordeal will serve to make you more like Christ. I wish you and your family strength, God's grace, and I pray for you, your wife, and your family's full recovery, in Jesus' name. Most of all be encouraged, because God say "All things word together for our good! Regardless of how things seem, Believe it!......Believe God!

[mrhide]

You can barely handle what you know right now. You may not be able to handle the additional details.

Your main concern right now is you and your children. Your wife is going to have to do most of the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. She is going to have to rebuild the trust that she demolished and there is very little you can do to restore that trust.

Your job is to forgive, build yourself up, and remain strong and faithful to God.
You also will have to decide if you are going to divorce or not. Forgiveness does not mean that the hurt will go away; at least not in the first year or two.

You feel that you have been crapped on and that is because you have been crapped on.
You are going to have to suffer for your wife's adultery and there is no easy way around that. If you do this right by forgiving, suffering and giving when able, you will gain spiritually but not necessarily gain in your relationship with your wife. You will more than likely lose something with your wife but could gain in another area with her.

[TJW]

Forgiveness does not mean that the hurt will go away; at least not in the first year or two.

And, it doesn't mean that there has to be a reconciliation, either.

you will gain spiritually but not necessarily gain in your relationship with your wife

This is wisdom.  In fact, I matured a lot during that time, however, the feelings of harmony and companionship I once shared with my wife were destroyed forever.

I stayed "in" the marriage, for the sake of the kids, and in order to keep my ministry going (I ministered in conservative churches, would have been put "on the shelf" if I divorced her) - however, the marriage itself was in total ruin.

[DaveW]

It only happened once and it destroyed her inside. Which explained all of her behavior over the last few months.

This is not plausible.  Something which happens once affects behavior once.

What can affect behavior over months has to be something which happens in continuum over months.

Until proved otherwise, I would tend to believe the "only once" confession.  And someone obsessing over one incident CAN disrupt life for months or even years.

No affair ever happens "once".  The occurrence of sex may be only once during the affair.  However, affairs do not usually begin an hour before the people go to a motel. 

And, most of the time, "only once" turns out to be a lie.

As I said, until proved otherwise....

And usually that is true that the affair builds over weeks or months.  But not always. 

Sometimes a person can be at an emotionally and/or spiritually low point and someone else comes along and in an effort to feel better, falls prey to this sin. No buildup to it at all. In some cases it may even be a complete stranger.

[DaveW]

I stayed "in" the marriage, for the sake of the kids, and in order to keep my ministry going (I ministered in conservative churches, would have been put "on the shelf" if I divorced her) - however, the marriage itself was in total ruin.

Who are you accountable to in your "ministry?" They should know all about this and should have from day 1.

The time to put a ministry "on the shelf" is NOT after a divorce takes place but earlier on (first sign of serious trouble) in order to work at restoring the marriage.

[chosenone]

It only happened once and it destroyed her inside. Which explained all of her behavior over the last few months.

This is not plausible.  Something which happens once affects behavior once.

What can affect behavior over months has to be something which happens in continuum over months.

Until proved otherwise, I would tend to believe the "only once" confession.  And someone obsessing over one incident CAN disrupt life for months or even years.

No affair ever happens "once".  The occurrence of sex may be only once during the affair.  However, affairs do not usually begin an hour before the people go to a motel. 

And, most of the time, "only once" turns out to be a lie.

As I said, until proved otherwise....

And usually that is true that the affair builds over weeks or months.  But not always. 

Sometimes a person can be at an emotionally and/or spiritually low point and someone else comes along and in an effort to feel better, falls prey to this sin. No buildup to it at all. In some cases it may even be a complete stranger.

Dave from what I read she said they only actually had full sex once, but did other sexual things such as oral sex more than once. To me that is equally as bad and is unfaithfulness as much as full sex is.

[DaveW]

Dave from what I read she said they only actually had full sex once, but did other sexual things such as oral sex more than once. To me that is equally as bad and is unfaithfulness as much as full sex is.

Yeah, I read that after I posted.

My post should be taken as more of a general  statement than to be directly applicable to this situation.

As to this, it seems she bought into the Bill "Slick Willy" Clinton definition of sex. And keeps denying to herself that it was really happening.

"Its not really sex if we only do xxxxx"
"Sex only happened once ....."
"He forced me into it ...."

That is denial on top of denial.

At some point she will need to face up to her full responsibility for this.

[chosenone]

Dave from what I read she said they only actually had full sex once, but did other sexual things such as oral sex more than once. To me that is equally as bad and is unfaithfulness as much as full sex is.

Yeah, I read that after I posted.

My post should be taken as more of a general  statement than to be directly applicable to this situation.

As to this, it seems she bought into the Bill "Slick Willy" Clinton definition of sex. And keeps denying to herself that it was really happening.

"Its not really sex if we only do xxxxx"
"Sex only happened once ....."
"He forced me into it ...."

That is denial on top of denial.

At some point she will need to face up to her full responsibility for this.

Absolutely. There is no hope until she does take FULL responsibility for her choices and her actions. After all someone cant force you into anything many times can they.
Most of those who cheat will say it only happened once, and it didn't mean anything, or that is 'just happened.'

It takes two to cheat, and while it is tempting for the spouse who was cheated in to blame the other person and not their spouse, both were equally responsible, and both went back again and again. If that one time of sex devastated her so much, why did she carry on meeting him again for more sex??Its doesnt wash to be honest.

[DaveW]

IMO she is not being honest, even with herself.

[chosenone]

IMO she is not being honest, even with herself.

No I agree. We can all fool others and try and fool ourselves, but we cant fool God can we.

[JohnDB]

You can have the OM removed from your area. Not by eventual deployment (which may not be true) but by military action.

If his superiors found out about this affair with a married woman the military frowns heavily upon such behavior. They have punitive measures they will assess him with and permanent file records that will deny him promotions & pay increases & premium assignments. Possibly even stockade time.

At Ft Cambell it was many a soldiers worry. They aint angels just soldiers.

[TJW]

Who are you accountable to in your "ministry?" They should know all about this and should have from day 1.

They did know.  It was one of the leadership of the ministry who was my wife's affair partner.  And the others knew of the affair before I did.

The Clintonesque "never inhaled" isn't denial.   It's a attempt at a "plea bargain".  The liar simply wants to minimize the repercussions by appealing to the offended's sympathy.

[DaveW]

It was one of the leadership of the ministry who was my wife's affair partner.  And the others knew of the affair before I did.

And did nothing? ? ?

If true, it means the whole lot of them need to either step down voluntarily or be forcibly removed.


Absolutely unbelievable. 

[TJW]

The ministry ended within a few months.  Needless to say, my participation in it was quite over.

[Angus]

I have struggled with forgiveness when I perceive that a sin was committed against me. Ask yourself, who was really hurt you or God?  As much as you have given to your relationship, he has given more. He does not view your wife as soiled. He sees your wife as beautiful, and in his own image. If she has asked for forgiveness, God has already forgotten the sin. You play right in to the devils hands when you linger on the sin.

[chosenone]

Angus, forgiving someone doesn't always equate with reconciliation. There are always serious consequences to adultery, and many cant stay in a  marriage where that has happened and who can blame them. One of the most serious consequences is the deep hurt of the one cheated on.
He has only just found out. No one can heal and forgive from that sort of betrayal overnight.

That's is why God allows divorce under those circumstances, because it is very serious, very damaging, and very destructive. I admire him for even considering staying in such a marriage.

[TJW]

I have pondered this question, too, "who was really hurt ?" -

I know and believe God is grieved by our sin.  And I know that God forgets our sin.   These two concepts are evident in the bible.

However, God is not "hurt" by our sin.  And we CANNOT forget, no matter how much we forgive.  We are not God.

God is no less God, is not diminished in any way by our sin, He has not been damaged by it.    God, therefore, does not need to "remember" sin.   He does not need to be protected from the sinner and the likelihood of the sinner sinning again.   He will not be diminished nor hurt even if the sinner continues throughout his/her life to commit the same sin.

However, the spouse of an adulterer is FOREVER diminished and damaged by the sin of his spouse, and must remember, because otherwise, there is no mechanism of protection for him, and he WILL be diminished and hurt again if, and when, the sinner sins against him again.

I admire him for even considering staying in such a marriage.

Amen.  Although I "stayed", too, I never regained the position of loving and caring husband that I once was toward her, and I always knew that I was simply a "default", that if her OM hadn't dumped her, she wouldn't have "stayed".   And, no matter how hard I prayed and tried to overcome that, it clouded and guarded every
facet of the marriage until she died.