Idolatry?

[winsome]

worship of course is not a Biblical practice.
There is not a single shred of evidence in the whole Bible that Mary should be worshipped, or even deserves some kind of worship.

Catholics do NOT worship Mary

That's what you like the rest of the world to believe, but it just so happens that we all know better.
Going on your knees for somebody, praying to her and giving her all kinds of divine titles...is worship.

The easiest way to find out if you are worshipping Mary is to follow the following steps:
- Take dictionary
- Find "worship"
- Apply definition to Catholic practice
- Learn that definition fits perfectly

Ah!  A "Bible alone" practitioner defining a term, not from the Bible but from a secular dictionary. How hypocritical is that!

[Helen]

Winsome, the first time the word 'worship' is used in the Bible is when Abraham is taking Isaac up the mountain, thinking his son must die at his hand.  He tells his servants to wait there
Genesis 22:5 – We will worship and then we will come back

The word for worship there is hawah, -- to bow down, pay honor, prostrate, kneeling, humbly bow

That is what Catholics do to Mary.

In the Ten Commandments, when we are told not to bow down to idols or worship them, the first part of the command is 'bow down' which is that same word, 'hawah.'  The word translated 'worship' there is 'abad' – serve, worship, do, work, subject to, minister to, enslave, labor, work for, burdened, worker, to be cultivated or plowed, subjugate.

So we are commanded not to bow down to or to be subject to anything our hands have made, actually.  Statues, graven images, icons, automobiles, whatever!  It is false worship and idolatry according to the Bible.

[winsome]

Winsome, the first time the word 'worship' is used in the Bible is when Abraham is taking Isaac up the mountain, thinking his son must die at his hand.  He tells his servants to wait there
Genesis 22:5 – We will worship and then we will come back

The word for worship there is hawah, -- to bow down, pay honor, prostrate, kneeling, humbly bow

That is what Catholics do to Mary.

In the Ten Commandments, when we are told not to bow down to idols or worship them, the first part of the command is 'bow down' which is that same word, 'hawah.'  The word translated 'worship' there is 'abad' – serve, worship, do, work, subject to, minister to, enslave, labor, work for, burdened, worker, to be cultivated or plowed, subjugate.

So we are commanded not to bow down to or to be subject to anything our hands have made, actually.  Statues, graven images, icons, automobiles, whatever!  It is false worship and idolatry according to the Bible.

The Hebrew word hawa does not mean worship.

From Wikipedia:
Hawa is the traditional Arabic and classical Hebrew name for the Biblical and Qur'anic figure Eve.

From the Online Etymology Dictionary
Eve fem. proper name, from Biblical first woman, Late Latin, from Hebrew Hawwah, literally "a living being," from base hawa "he lived" (cf. Arabic hayya, Aramaic hayyin).

The word translated as worship in Gen 22: is not hawa

[Helen]

I don't really care what wiki says, I have both a concordance and a Hebrew dictionary here.

It is used 173 times in the Old Testament.  It is translated 'worship' 39 times, 'bow down' 33 times, 'bowed down' 30 times, etc. 

If you have a Concordance, look up the word used in Genesis 22:5 and see for yourself.

The Hebrew word for Eve is similar, but different, often spelled in English 'hawwah' with meanings of both "Eve" and "settlement."

[winsome]

I don't really care what wiki says, I have both a concordance and a Hebrew dictionary here.

It is used 173 times in the Old Testament.  It is translated 'worship' 39 times, 'bow down' 33 times, 'bowed down' 30 times, etc. 

If you have a Concordance, look up the word used in Genesis 22:5 and see for yourself.

The Hebrew word for Eve is similar, but different, often spelled in English 'hawwah' with meanings of both "Eve" and "settlement."

I have looked it up in a Hebrew Interlinear and you are wrong.

[Helen]

Look up Genesis 22:5, and check the word translated 'worship' there.   And do you think that in Exodus 20 in the Ten Commandments, God was saying "do not Eve or worship ....."?  It's the same word.

[winsome]

Hawah is defined in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance by number 1933 and 1944  hawah to breathe, to be, (in the sense of existence)
http://paleotimes.org/can-we-receive-salvation-without-calling-on-the-sacred-names-yahweh-and-yahshua-the-messiah/

Strong:

H1933
hava havah
haw-vaw', haw-vaw'
A primitive root (compare H183, H1961) supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence):—be, X have


H1944
hoham
ho-hawm'
Of uncertain derivation; Hoham, a Canaanitish king:—Hoham

Nothing to do with worship.

[BlackSepulcher]

Idolatry aside, those who pray to Mary and the saints, speak and pray to the dead, and the dead answer and speak back. This is necromancy, which is forbidden by the bible.

9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Deut 18:9-12 (KJV)[color]

Necromancy is conjuring the dead.
If you really knew the true nature of it, you'd see how stupid it is to say the Church has anything of it. But maybe it just doesn't occur to you the age of which these books were written, it's talking about things like sorcery bro. 

Yet another ridiculous falsehood against the Church.

[winsome]

Incientally there is no word 'worship' in Ex 20 (I'm using the KJV for this)

P.S. Gotta go.

I'll catch up with this tomorrow. I have more to say about worship in scripture.

[BlackSepulcher]

Yes they do winsome.  Take a look at the words of your own Rosary -- the ones addressed to Mary.  That is worship.

Idolatry is attributing divine powers to something in a wrong manner. That is the direct insight of the Church.

Makes a lot more sense then what you have stated, because you have an opaque perception on what idolatry even is, you and the rest like you.

And, are you sure you know the Rosary? There's a lot of Father and Jesus involved. You don't even have that right. No wonder you are so anti-Catholic, you hardly know what it is period.
It's easy to hate what you don't understand. Take racism for example- takes a bit of ignorance, you feel more comfortable with what you are familiar with and so damn anything else. The deduced fact from that is, well,
those like yourself are ignorant.

So come back when you have something worth actually bringing to the table instead of repeating the same old assertion over and over again- because you are just going to be proved wrong over and over again.

[AVZ]

Look up Genesis 22:5, and check the word translated 'worship' there.   And do you think that in Exodus 20 in the Ten Commandments, God was saying "do not Eve or worship ....."?  It's the same word.

Hi Helen,

I did check on this and indeed I fail to find the word "hawah".

In Genesis 22:5 the Hebrew root "shachah" (pronounced as shaw-khaw) is used.
In Exodus 20:5 the same root is used.

In Genesis 22 this is being translated as "worship", and in Exodus 20 it is being translated as "bow down".
In Hebrew however there is no distinction between the two other than the contextual implementation of the root.

[Helen]

You are right.  Please see what I just posted in 'what is worship?'  Evidently some modern translations are using different texts than the KJV used.  Interesting. 

[AVZ]

You are right.  Please see what I just posted in 'what is worship?'  Evidently some modern translations are using different texts than the KJV used.  Interesting. 

"Worship" and "serve" both can be applied in most cases.
The expressions are meant to show us the active and passive difference.

Worship is the active expression, and serve is the passive expression.
Like "bowing down" is an active act, and "serve the Lord" is a passive act.

That's why Exodus 20:5 makes a divide:
Thou shall not bow down (active) to them, nor serve (passive) them.