Help for the eldery !

[grams]

Please if you can talk to the aged !

I was a Catholic,  till the age of 50?.................

I was on my way to hell.

Back then my church and I am finding out most churches did not use the bible......
We had to save our self !

If you really care and can think on this  please help !

Sure back then I knew Jesus went to the cross.
that was not all that was needed.........
But also, I had to pay for my sins.

Now reading the bible , I understand Yes I do need to be good and do good things.......  But  that is not the payment for my sins.

  Only Jesus dying on the cross can save me !

all the other things of course were good for me, but  back then  the cross was only part of the payment.........
So please in a kind way, speak to the elderly .........

Some how maybe over the years some of them have the rest of the salvation ?   It is possible.
But if you can speak to any one   over there 60's  .   
I  am 78 and did not find out till I changed churchs.

[Red Baker]

Please if you can talk to the aged !

I was a Catholic,  till the age of 50?.................

I was on my way to hell.

Back then my church and I am finding out most churches did not use the bible......
We had to save our self !

If you really care and can think on this  please help !

Sure back then I knew Jesus went to the cross.
that was not all that was needed.........
But also, I had to pay for my sins.

Now reading the bible , I understand Yes I do need to be good and do good things.......  But  that is not the payment for my sins.

  Only Jesus dying on the cross can save me !

all the other things of course were good for me, but  back then  the cross was only part of the payment.........
So please in a kind way, speak to the elderly .........

Some how maybe over the years some of them have the rest of the salvation ?   It is possible.
But if you can speak to any one   over there 60's  .   
I  am 78 and did not find out till I changed churchs.

Greetings Grams,

I am very thankful that you had a God changing experience in your life at the age of fifty, but I would like to make a comment of what you said, which was this:

"I was on my way to hell." Dear saint, just because your eyes where open to your errors, does not mean that you got born again at that moment, but most likely you experience a conversion from error to a better understanding of the truth, and converted from some errors of Catholicism.  I would lean more to a experience of conversion of a better knowledge of the truth, than being born again.  You very well were already a child of God within Catholicism, only living in certain errors and darkness of certain truths, that hindered you better understanding the glorious work of redemption that Christ did for those who believe.  That's what the truth of the gospel does, and also the very purpose God gave to us his word.  It is for those that do believe that they may grow in grace and knowledge, which I believe happen to you and others like you.

Just because folk are in Catholicism, does not mean that they are children of the devil, no more than those who are around the the truth are automatically regenerated children of God.  No one is born again by hearing truth, but they must be born again in order to distinguish between truth and error!

RB

[grams]

Well,  I have to say this !   Not having a bible, yes I know a church  / prayer  book has some bible in it.   But not enough to become saved.

That was a great big mistake, not telling the children and adults to
read there bible.

I felt like I had only half truths.   When I got into the bible.

Wow , that bible sure does grow each and every day.

And we are also blessed to have a very good teacher  / Preacher...........

[Helen]

Thanks for the reminder, Grams!  I do know that anyone who wants the truth and follows what they know of it will be led by the Father to the Son, and there is salvation. 

My husband and I have spoken to a lot of different groups of people of all different religious persuasions.  We have learned something very sad along the way -- very few Christians of any denomination or variety know the Bible at all.  That is something that amazes and saddens us.  At the Bible studies we do here in our home, so many are rather stunned to actually be reading the Bible instead of little booklets which tell you what to think or ask you what you think about this or that verse. 

And learning that knowing the Bible helps people understand that Bible explains Bible in so many areas of contention -- what a discovery it is for so many of them! 

I know in regular Christian churches Bibles are not only available but often given free to those who would like one.   Then what happens?  They seem to gather a lot of dust on someone's shelf or table.

It's like ignoring gold and preferring the rusting iron and cheap tin of the world.

[Catholica]

For any aged Catholics on this forum who might find this thread.  Welcome.

You have been blessed with the greatest graces, having brought close to Christ's heart, into his very Church, and having been gifted with the most sublime gift of the Most Holy Eucharist.  There are so many Catholics who treasure their faith, of which I am one.  I invite you to send me a Private Message, whenever you might be reading this (whether that be years from when I post it or whenever).  If the forum format hasn't changed, you can send me a PM by clicking this link: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/pm/?sa=send;u=19781

I am an adult convert to the Catholic faith and I love God very much.  Ever since I became alive in the faith I have sought to understand the faith better and to grow deeper in knowledge of God and in love for Jesus.  There are true treasures in the Catholic faith which you may have never discovered, but will make you fully alive when you seek them.  The Catholic faith is deeply rooted in the Gospel of Jesus and is the true Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are many on this forum and in other places on the internet who will try to convince you otherwise.  The world is awash in confusion and yet the stability that many seek is found in Jesus through the Church which he founded, which was born on the day of Pentecost and which has continued through the centuries up until now.  You have somehow been fortunate enough to receive that great gift.  Praise God.

If you should choose to explore the wide variety of opinions which those who follow the Bible of their own accord have (which lead them in various directions) I adjure you to consider what great gifts you must give up to do the same yourself, especially the gifts of Eucharist and Confession, and especially the great grace of final perseverance and the thought of having a Catholic priest at your bedside administering your last rites one day, hearing your final confession, and at the last moment of your life hear the words that Jesus longs to tell you; "I absolve you of your sins".  There can be no more way for a person to complete his or her course of earthly life.

Meantime there are many great ways that you can grow in love for the Lord, and they are not all found in other religions.  Protestant religions were not founded by God.  They reject the sacraments, in particular the Eucharist, the very things that we as Catholics recognize as the greatest gifts from God which help us down the narrow path toward heaven.  The Eucharist has been a great consolation to me over the years and perhaps they have to you too.  You will not find that elsewhere.

What you will find is a morass of confusion, varied doctrines, people who are doing each as he or she sees fit.  You may even encounter priests who have fallen into heresy and created their own churches.  They in particular are bitter people who stir up hateful feelings about our faith in others.  Those other people may have been weak in their faith, or even knew nothing about the Catholic faith before they were fed lies and a mission of hate towards it.  There are going to be some of those people on every forum you visit.  It is prudent to avoid them unless you are already strong in the faith.

Christian internet forums, in general are not a good place for you to be if you are trying to love God more.  I have been in more than a couple, and the "conversations" here are rarely edifying and usually childish.  It would be better for you to talk to your priest, and have them point you toward a good book on prayer and the love of God, or the lives of the saints.  These will lift your weary hearts up, edify you and enrich your faith.

With the love of God for my fellow man and woman, I implore you: grow deep in your love for God.  Study the Bible in a Catholic Bible study and ask questions on your faith from faithful Catholics.  Find a good cause through which you can serve the Lord and His Church. Relearn the religion and the truths about it that you may have only learned as a child.  He who learns the faith only as a child often understands the faith as a child.  That is not something to shame anyone, that is just how things work.  You have grown now, and there is a LOT to know, about Jesus, about God, about yourself!  You can still do great things through Christ who strengthens you.  And that love that God works through you will be a great blessing to the others in your life. 

May the peace of Eternal God be with you now and forever.

Andre

[Helen]

No "Catholic study" is needed, nor any other book on the life of anyone.  Only the Bible is God's Word and that is enough.  That is also what Grams was trying to say.  Go straight to the Source, not to anyone's ideas about it. 

[winsome]

No "Catholic study" is needed, nor any other book on the life of anyone.  Only the Bible is God's Word and that is enough.  That is also what Grams was trying to say.  Go straight to the Source, not to anyone's ideas about it. 

Not even yours?

[Red Baker]

For any aged Catholics on this forum who might find this thread.  Welcome.

You have been blessed with the greatest graces, having brought close to Christ's heart, into his very Church, and having been gifted with the most sublime gift of the Most Holy Eucharist.  There are so many Catholics who treasure their faith, of which I am one.  I invite you to send me a Private Message, whenever you might be reading this (whether that be years from when I post it or whenever).  If the forum format hasn't changed, you can send me a PM by clicking this link: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/pm/?sa=send;u=19781

I am an adult convert to the Catholic faith and I love God very much.  Ever since I became alive in the faith I have sought to understand the faith better and to grow deeper in knowledge of God and in love for Jesus.  There are true treasures in the Catholic faith which you may have never discovered, but will make you fully alive when you seek them.  The Catholic faith is deeply rooted in the Gospel of Jesus and is the true Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are many on this forum and in other places on the internet who will try to convince you otherwise.  The world is awash in confusion and yet the stability that many seek is found in Jesus through the Church which he founded, which was born on the day of Pentecost and which has continued through the centuries up until now.  You have somehow been fortunate enough to receive that great gift.  Praise God.

If you should choose to explore the wide variety of opinions which those who follow the Bible of their own accord have (which lead them in various directions) I adjure you to consider what great gifts you must give up to do the same yourself, especially the gifts of Eucharist and Confession, and especially the great grace of final perseverance and the thought of having a Catholic priest at your bedside administering your last rites one day, hearing your final confession, and at the last moment of your life hear the words that Jesus longs to tell you; "I absolve you of your sins".  There can be no more way for a person to complete his or her course of earthly life.

Meantime there are many great ways that you can grow in love for the Lord, and they are not all found in other religions.  Protestant religions were not founded by God.  They reject the sacraments, in particular the Eucharist, the very things that we as Catholics recognize as the greatest gifts from God which help us down the narrow path toward heaven.  The Eucharist has been a great consolation to me over the years and perhaps they have to you too.  You will not find that elsewhere.

What you will find is a morass of confusion, varied doctrines, people who are doing each as he or she sees fit.  You may even encounter priests who have fallen into heresy and created their own churches.  They in particular are bitter people who stir up hateful feelings about our faith in others.  Those other people may have been weak in their faith, or even knew nothing about the Catholic faith before they were fed lies and a mission of hate towards it.  There are going to be some of those people on every forum you visit.  It is prudent to avoid them unless you are already strong in the faith.

Christian internet forums, in general are not a good place for you to be if you are trying to love God more.  I have been in more than a couple, and the "conversations" here are rarely edifying and usually childish.  It would be better for you to talk to your priest, and have them point you toward a good book on prayer and the love of God, or the lives of the saints.  These will lift your weary hearts up, edify you and enrich your faith.

With the love of God for my fellow man and woman, I implore you: grow deep in your love for God.  Study the Bible in a Catholic Bible study and ask questions on your faith from faithful Catholics.  Find a good cause through which you can serve the Lord and His Church. Relearn the religion and the truths about it that you may have only learned as a child.  He who learns the faith only as a child often understands the faith as a child.  That is not something to shame anyone, that is just how things work.  You have grown now, and there is a LOT to know, about Jesus, about God, about yourself!  You can still do great things through Christ who strengthens you.  And that love that God works through you will be a great blessing to the others in your life. 

May the peace of Eternal God be with you now and forever.

Andre

Greetings Andre,

I truly believe that you love God, and are truly sincere, for which you should be commended by any lover of the truth.  Yet, I also believe and know that you are more committed to a religion, than to Jesus Christ and his righteousness, as your only right to enter into eternal life.  I say this, base upon your own words, dear friend, when you said this:

"If you should choose to explore the wide variety of opinions which those who follow the Bible of their own accord have (which lead them in various directions) I adjure you to consider what great gifts you must give up to do the same yourself, especially the gifts of Eucharist and Confession, and especially the great grace of final perseverance and the thought of having a Catholic priest at your bedside administering your last rites one day, hearing your final confession, and at the last moment of your life hear the words that Jesus longs to tell you; "I absolve you of your sins".  There can be no more way for a person to complete his or her course of earthly life."


My dearest friend, you do not need a man at your side at the hour death, saying to you, what he does to every other Catholic, regardless how they lived their life (consider the Kennedy's and their wicked life, heard those very same words from their paid priest who spoke lies to them as they were living this world to face God Almighty, whom they hated while they lived in this world, which was evident by their wicked life that they all lived, with maybe an exception to their mother, Rose) while living in this world, but, because they were Catholic, then they gave them a false of hope, which they soon learn was just that~false hope!  I am not judgmental, but speak words of soberness and truth.

Christians have the word of God, that we receive hope from in the hour of death~and that hope is base upon our faith in Jesus Christ's righteousness, and our faith cause us to live in obedience to God's will, and for us to form all of our opinions base upon God's testimony and his alone.  We are children of faith, not children who trust in some sect to get us to heaven! I could say much more, but my point should be clear.   

I do respect your love for God, not your blinded love for Catholicism, which was not born born at Pentecost, but from the heart of Cain in the beginning.

RB

[Catholica]

Greetings Andre,

I truly believe that you love God, and are truly sincere, for which you should be commended by any lover of the truth.  Yet, I also believe and know that you are more committed to a religion, than to Jesus Christ and his righteousness, as your only right to enter into eternal life.  I say this, base upon your own words, dear friend, when you said this:

"If you should choose to explore the wide variety of opinions which those who follow the Bible of their own accord have (which lead them in various directions) I adjure you to consider what great gifts you must give up to do the same yourself, especially the gifts of Eucharist and Confession, and especially the great grace of final perseverance and the thought of having a Catholic priest at your bedside administering your last rites one day, hearing your final confession, and at the last moment of your life hear the words that Jesus longs to tell you; "I absolve you of your sins".  There can be no more way for a person to complete his or her course of earthly life."


My dearest friend, you do not need a man at your side at the hour death, saying to you, what he does to every other Catholic, regardless how they lived their life (consider the Kennedy's and their wicked life, heard those very same words from their paid priest who spoke lies to them as they were living this world to face God Almighty, whom they hated while they lived in this world, which was evident by their wicked life that they all lived, with maybe an exception to their mother, Rose) while living in this world, but, because they were Catholic, then they gave them a false of hope, which they soon learn was just that~false hope!  I am not judgmental, but speak words of soberness and truth.

You speak plain words but they are not truth.  Jesus Christ established the ministerial priesthood.  And it is by Jesus Christ working through the priest that a final repentance produces absolution.  "But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men."  Matthew 9:8  "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20:23

It may seem like a scandal to some that men such as Ted Kennedy (and let's not forget Ted Bundy) lived wicked lives not deserving of heaven.  But we cannot underestimate the profound mercy of God, who desires all men to be saved.  He who repents from their sins with a contrite heart God will not spurn. And yet even those who merely fear hell and have even a small measure of contrition for their sins can be forgiven through the mercy of God working through the priest.  "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them."

Christians have the word of God, that we receive of hope from in the hour of death~and that hope is base upon our faith in Jesus Christ's righteousness, and our faith cause us to live in obedience to God's will, and for us to form all of our opinions base upon God's testimony and his alone.  We are children of faith, not children who trust in some sect to get us to heaven! I could say much more, but my point should be clear.

Whilst your faith is ostensibly in God, by rejecting the gifts that God gave us in the sacraments and through the ministerial priesthood which he instituted at the last supper (commanding them "do this" in reference to the paschal sacrifice "in remembrance of me", that remembrance which involves "to make present" just as the Passover "remembrance" did) you place a trust in God that absconds with any understanding of the necessity of being God's co-worker.  Yet at the hour of judgment, it is by those works which God through His grace He worked through our co-operation that we will be judged, not by our faith alone.  After all, in the end only faith, hope and charity remain, and the greatest of these is Charity, not faith.

It is the one-time sacrifice of Jesus that saved us, but that sacrifice did more than save those of us who believe, but it allowed to also become children of God.  Not worthless children like the prodigal son once was, who cast himself out into the morass of sin and iniquity, nor like the older son who regarded his relationship with his Father as a "slave", but rather as grateful, loving children who gladly serve God.  And this serving of God is known as Charity, or "love" as it simply translated sometimes.  We are saved ultimately by love: not just for us, but flowing through us: love done as co-workers of God, love done in faith.  That is how we are judged.  And that is how we are ultimately saved.

Faith "alone" is a faith without the necessity of love, and that "faith alone" cannot save us and is dead.

I do you your love for God, not your blinded love for Catholicism, which was not born born at Pentecost, but from the heart of Cain in the beginning.

RB

I love the Catholic Church because I believe that it is from God, is of God and that God works through it, and because through it's teachings I can come to know God with surety, not relying upon my own understanding (including understanding of Scripture which divides Protestantism).  I continue in my love with (I believe) a better understanding of the "alternative" than many, and that understanding makes me even more thankful that I, sinner though I have been, useless servant that I should consider myself, have somehow been granted this greatest gift of God in the Catholic Church and the Sacraments that Jesus instituted for my salvation.  He must have known that I needed lots of help to make it through this life.

In the beginning, it was Cain's jealousy of Abel's sacrifice that led him to murder.  Protestantism does away with the notion of sacrifice altogether, while the Catholic Church has always faithfully continued to offer it.  It was self-centeredness that led Cain to say "am I my brother's keeper?"  It is only in the Catholic religion (and those in schism with proper holy orders) and our rich understanding of communion (as opposed to the "self and Jesus" foundation of Protestantism and its offspring) that leads Catholics to say, "Yes, in fact, we are our brothers' keepers."  Jesus founded a religion with the priesthood so that we could re-present in remembrance (anamnesis, zikkaron) His one time saving sacrifice and have it applied to our souls.  The priests are a necessary, important part of the body of Christ.  Through the interchange of God, His priests, and His Church that we, in communion with Jesus, through the power of the grace of God, make our way to heaven.  The heart of Catholicism is more akin to that of Abel, who offered proper sacrifice to God and who the hateful jealous "world" despised for it.  As it was in the beginning, so it will be in the end.

[grams]

For what ever  church you  belong to should help in some ways.

But the  only thing that will get you to heaven is  knowing Gods word.

The bible !   Romans  - Philemon  are our books for this time.

Once you understand salvation, you want to read the bible more and more and learn what God is telling us.
He sent HIS only begotten Son to the Cross for our sins.
That is the full payment !   And once you can understand this then you want to learn more , and the bible Gods word will sure help  and get you in the right direction.
Know who is talking and to whom............ ? 

The whole bible is  for us, but the whole bible is not to us...........  !   

[Jimmy]

Jesus Christ established the ministerial priesthood.

No, Jesus Christ did not establish the ministerial priesthood.  He did [personally] select some to be apostles.  But that has no relationship to the functional organization of the RCC.

[Jimmy]

Whilst your faith is ostensibly in God, by rejecting the gifts that God gave us in the sacraments and through the ministerial priesthood which he instituted at the last supper (commanding them "do this" in reference to the paschal sacrifice "in remembrance of me", that remembrance which involves "to make present" just as the Passover "remembrance" did) you place a trust in God that absconds with any understanding of the necessity of being God's co-worker. 

What Jesus Christ instituted at the last supper, He expanded through the apostle Paul to all who are in Christ.  His teaching concerning the partaking of the Lord's Supper was to all the saints in Corinth, not to some priest.

[Red Baker]

Greetings Catholica,

I am not going to continue hashing this out, but will answer your post to me.  I trust that I will type a little better, then I did in my last post.  I just read it, and realized that my fingers and thoughts were going different directions!  That's what happens as we get older. 

You said: "Jesus Christ established the ministerial priesthood." He did indeed, and it is totally different than what you religions practices.  You folk add to the scriptures, in so many different ways concerning this doctrine.  I am not going to say much at this point, since I have started another post that will deal with it more in depth.  Every saint under the NT are part of the chosen royal priesthood of the Jesus Christ~Jesus, the Son of God, being the Great High Priest alone, of this holy priesthood under the new covenant.  1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6 Christians under the NT, can go right unto the very throne of God through Jesus Christ, without going through any flesh and blood, and I might add~sinners like ourselves, in order to speak with God.  There is no higher order of priesthood than, the most feeble believer on earth is not part of, none whatsoever. The priest/laity two class system as taught by the RCC is an abomination before God.  Now you can say that: "You speak plain words"!

You said: "And it is by Jesus Christ working through the priest that a final repentance produces absolution. " That is heresy. By making that statement, you are saying to me and all that read what you just said, that eternal life is through both the will of the flesh and the will of man~you have rejected John's teaching~John 1:13; You have another gospel, because you have added work into the finished work that Jesus did to redeemed his people from their sins;  and, so many, many more things that we could add showing that abominable statement.  Children of God have eternal life the very second they are born of God, (they actually have it before then, but I would never convince people like you) and need no sinful man at their death bed helping them to get into heaven!  Jesus Christ secured eternal life for us, by his righteousness/obedience, and we reject that heresy that: it is by Jesus Christ working through the priest that a final repentance produces absolution. Pure heresy! Doctrine of devils, who hate Jesus Christ and his glorious work of redeeming his people from their sins, by HIMSELF.

You said: "After all, in the end only faith, hope and charity remain, and the greatest of these is Charity, not faith."  These things have not one thing to do with eternal life! Eternal life is a free gift given by God's grace through the faith and righteousness of Jesus Christ, apart from all means whatsoever. These things that you mentioned are evidences of eternal life, not the means to receive life. 

I have said enough, but if you feel that there is one point that I need to address, then I will, for RCC has no support from the word of God, at every turn it is seen to be a false religion.  It is a religion of man made doctrines and commandments.

RB

[mclees8]

These things have not one thing to do with eternal life! Eternal life is a free gift given by God's grace through the faith and righteousness of Jesus Christ, apart from all means whatsoever. These things that you mentioned are evidences of eternal life, not the means to receive life. 

Red the reall emphesis is your last statment. This is the part they cannot grasp. When one truly comes to Christ and is born again then Christ Character works in us to transform us. It is just who we are. We are not stacking up merit madges for heaeven. One who truly loves Christ will do the works of Love because he is changed. Our only ticket to heaven is what Christ did for us freely and was freely given so that now where there was no hope, hope is also given freely.

The real truth in this is that we will never be able to achieve perfection in and of our selves. Not one will be above another. This is the folly of Catholic sainthood. We cannot ever do enough good to out way the bad. This is why Jesus had to go to the cross on our behalf and he alone is why we are worthy of eternal life.