Oct. 13 and the Pope's plans

[Helen]

have no idea where to put this, but the Pope evidently plans on 'consecrating the world' to the 'immaculate heart of the Virgin Mary' on October 13.

He really does not have that authority.  The world belongs to Satan right now and will until Jesus returns.  When, in the third temptation, Satan offered the worship of the nations to Jesus if Jesus would bow to him, Satan, Jesus never disputed that Satan had that authority.

If the Pope now thinks he has authority over the world, who does that make him in concert with?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/22/pope-francis-to-consecrate-the-world-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

[chosenone]

Good grief whatever next. You can tell we are heading for that 'one world faith' thing.

[Catholica]

have no idea where to put this, but the Pope evidently plans on 'consecrating the world' to the 'immaculate heart of the Virgin Mary' on October 13.

He really does not have that authority.  The world belongs to Satan right now and will until Jesus returns.  When, in the third temptation, Satan offered the worship of the nations to Jesus if Jesus would bow to him, Satan, Jesus never disputed that Satan had that authority.

If the Pope now thinks he has authority over the world, who does that make him in concert with?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/22/pope-francis-to-consecrate-the-world-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

At the end of Jesus' time post-resurrection, he said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."  Matthew 28:18.

If your argument is that

1) the pope acting as if he has authority to do this consecration puts him "in concert with" the devil, because
2) you (falsely) believed that the devil has authority on earth ..

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

[chosenone]

have no idea where to put this, but the Pope evidently plans on 'consecrating the world' to the 'immaculate heart of the Virgin Mary' on October 13.

He really does not have that authority.  The world belongs to Satan right now and will until Jesus returns.  When, in the third temptation, Satan offered the worship of the nations to Jesus if Jesus would bow to him, Satan, Jesus never disputed that Satan had that authority.

If the Pope now thinks he has authority over the world, who does that make him in concert with?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/22/pope-francis-to-consecrate-the-world-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

At the end of Jesus' time post-resurrection, he said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."  Matthew 28:18.

If your argument is that

1) the pope acting as if he has authority to do this consecration puts him "in concert with" the devil, because
2) you (falsely) believed that the devil has authority on earth ..

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world. The world isn't the popes to consecrate to anything, but if he HAS to do it, PLEASE do it to Jesus and NOT to Mary, who is a mere human being.

[Catholica]

have no idea where to put this, but the Pope evidently plans on 'consecrating the world' to the 'immaculate heart of the Virgin Mary' on October 13.

He really does not have that authority.  The world belongs to Satan right now and will until Jesus returns.  When, in the third temptation, Satan offered the worship of the nations to Jesus if Jesus would bow to him, Satan, Jesus never disputed that Satan had that authority.

If the Pope now thinks he has authority over the world, who does that make him in concert with?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/22/pope-francis-to-consecrate-the-world-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

At the end of Jesus' time post-resurrection, he said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."  Matthew 28:18.

If your argument is that

1) the pope acting as if he has authority to do this consecration puts him "in concert with" the devil, because
2) you (falsely) believed that the devil has authority on earth ..

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.

Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

The world isn't the popes to consecrate to anything, but if he HAS to do it, PLEASE do it to Jesus and NOT to Mary, who is a mere human being.

A "Consecration the Immaculate Heart of Mary" is Catholic shorthand for a "Consecration to Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary".  It is through having a heart alike unto that of Mary (who says to us "do whatever (Jesus) tells you) that we come into the closest union with God.

[mclees8]

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

 

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.
Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   2nd Cor 4:4



Mike >  In this Paul says that satan is the god of this present world. Jesus said he was the prince of this world. This means that both terms are applied as equally the same not just implied. Many times you like piking at heirs for the sake of argument.  You commented about the world in this verse referring to peoples worldliness of whom you say that satan is the price of it. Of this I am quite sure. What we need here is your understanding of what this worldliness means in definition.  Also why you don't think this can be the pope or the whole Vatican thing. Along with satan being the price or God of this world do you not see him working as an angel of light where by those who consider themselves as good and men of God yet still being of the world in all its ambitions. Nowhere is it more  useful to Satan than to mislead and guide the church especial with those of power and influence.

[Catholica]

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

 

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.
Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   2nd Cor 4:4



Mike >  In this Paul says that satan is the god of this present world. Jesus said he was the prince of this world. This means that both terms are applied as equally the same not just implied. Many times you like piking at heirs for the sake of argument.  You commented about the world in this verse referring to peoples worldliness of whom you say that satan is the price of it. Of this I am quite sure. What we need here is your understanding of what this worldliness means in definition.  Also why you don't think this can be the pope or the whole Vatican thing. Along with satan being the price or God of this world do you not see him working as an angel of light where by those who consider themselves as good and men of God yet still being of the world in all its ambitions. Nowhere is it more  useful to Satan than to mislead and guide the church especial with those of power and influence.

Do you think Pope Francis is worldly?

[Star of David]

have no idea where to put this, but the Pope evidently plans on 'consecrating the world' to the 'immaculate heart of the Virgin Mary' on October 13.

He really does not have that authority.  The world belongs to Satan right now and will until Jesus returns.  When, in the third temptation, Satan offered the worship of the nations to Jesus if Jesus would bow to him, Satan, Jesus never disputed that Satan had that authority.

If the Pope now thinks he has authority over the world, who does that make him in concert with?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/22/pope-francis-to-consecrate-the-world-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

This is obviously a post by a Protestant seeking to bash the pope, as many Protestants have a fondness for doing for some odd reason.

Helen, just do not worry about a good thing that the pope is doing for the world, okay?

[HRoberson]

We would expect the Pope to be oh, Catholic.
Catholics do a lot of Mary stuff and this Pope seems to really like her.

If the Pope is correct, this is a good thing.

If the Pope isn't correct, this is irrelevant for non-Catholics.

If God doesn't like it, He can decide what to do about it.

[winsome]

We would expect the Pope to be oh, Catholic.
Catholics do a lot of Mary stuff and this Pope seems to really like her.

If the Pope is correct, this is a good thing.

If the Pope isn't correct, this is irrelevant for non-Catholics.

If God doesn't like it, He can decide what to do about it.

Well put HR.

[mclees8]

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

 

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.
Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   2nd Cor 4:4



Mike >  In this Paul says that satan is the god of this present world. Jesus said he was the prince of this world. This means that both terms are applied as equally the same not just implied. Many times you like piking at heirs for the sake of argument.  You commented about the world in this verse referring to peoples worldliness of whom you say that satan is the price of it. Of this I am quite sure. What we need here is your understanding of what this worldliness means in definition.  Also why you don't think this can be the pope or the whole Vatican thing. Along with satan being the price or God of this world do you not see him working as an angel of light where by those who consider themselves as good and men of God yet still being of the world in all its ambitions. Nowhere is it more  useful to Satan than to mislead and guide the church especial with those of power and influence.

Do you think Pope Francis is worldly?

I don't think I know, but its not just pope Francis but the whole papal thing from the first day they put on their fancy robes and sat on a throne and men kissed their ring. from the first time they became a religious political entity ruling over the people of the land. people who had no more understanding of true salvation just being ignorant men who were taught salvation was adherence to authority rather then love for the Savior

[Catholica]

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

 

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.
Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   2nd Cor 4:4



Mike >  In this Paul says that satan is the god of this present world. Jesus said he was the prince of this world. This means that both terms are applied as equally the same not just implied. Many times you like piking at heirs for the sake of argument.  You commented about the world in this verse referring to peoples worldliness of whom you say that satan is the price of it. Of this I am quite sure. What we need here is your understanding of what this worldliness means in definition.  Also why you don't think this can be the pope or the whole Vatican thing. Along with satan being the price or God of this world do you not see him working as an angel of light where by those who consider themselves as good and men of God yet still being of the world in all its ambitions. Nowhere is it more  useful to Satan than to mislead and guide the church especial with those of power and influence.

Do you think Pope Francis is worldly?

I don't think I know, but its not just pope Francis but the whole papal thing from the first day they put on their fancy robes and sat on a throne and men kissed their ring. from the first time they became a religious political entity ruling over the people of the land. people who had no more understanding of true salvation just being ignorant men who were taught salvation was adherence to authority ratyher then love for the Savior

"You don't think you know" and yet you say that "the pope is worldly".  That, my friend, is calumny, and a sin.  There is nothing about being a pope that is worldly or not.  Even if they wear papal robes, even if they wear a crown, even if people kiss their ring, this doesn't prove that they are worldly.  Being worldly means taking inordinate pleasure in the things of this world.  The papal ring, the papal crown, the papal robes, they are all now part of the papal office.  Wearing them when appropriate is an act of humility.  The things themselves give due justice to the office.  To be worldly would be to want to be pope just for the perceived "perks", or the power that comes along with that role. Wanting those things for those things in themselves is sinful, but those things in themselves are not sinful, nor is the pope having them sinful.

Whether something is sinful comes from an ordering of the heart.  Is being president of the united states sinful?  He lives in a really nice house, he wears suits to work each day, he wields a lot of power, he makes a lot of money.  Is the presidency therefore sinful?  Hardly!  However if the president was just there to have the power, and not there as a servant, then that could be sinful or lead him to sin.

To be worldly is to love the world and its things more than God.  It is not simply owning things, it is not simply having a position of power, etc.  It is a heart condition.  There have been worldly popes, yes, but the office of pope is not worldly by nature, nor are all (or even most) of the men who have been pope worldly.

[FireSword]

To me worldly means pursuing riches and pleasure, without restraint and moral guidelines. The pope is hardly living it large by flying in public airplanes and living in temporary accommodation. Most people retire but the popes still play the role game in the Vatican. Even though I find the Vatican mostly irrelevant to the body of Christ, I would not call their doings worldly. Just a kind of retirement home playing popes. A bit like many of the monarchical systems still running today, that have no real role, but yet do a few things here and there to justify their existence, even if just for eye candy, tourist attraction.

[mclees8]

Then using your logic, since the actual authority now belongs to Jesus (according to the Bible) that same logic should lead you to believe that the Pope is "in concert with" God, because it is God who has all authority in heaven AND on Earth.

 

God says that at this time satan is the god of the world.
Nowhere does God say that Satan is the god of the world.  You seem fond of the NLT.  But the NLT inserts the word "Satan" into 2 Cor. 4:4.  He says that Satan is the prince of the world; not the god of the world, though that could be implied.  However 2 Cor. 4:4 "age" or "world" refer to people's "wordliness". And Satan is the prince of worldliness. 

Jesus is the King of all creation and his redemption made us all children and heirs to his throne and therefore members of God's kingdom.  God is the king of the living.

All the world is under God's dominion, who allows Satan latitude for a time.  That has nothing to do with what the Pope does, who is also a child of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   2nd Cor 4:4



Mike >  In this Paul says that satan is the god of this present world. Jesus said he was the prince of this world. This means that both terms are applied as equally the same not just implied. Many times you like piking at heirs for the sake of argument.  You commented about the world in this verse referring to peoples worldliness of whom you say that satan is the price of it. Of this I am quite sure. What we need here is your understanding of what this worldliness means in definition.  Also why you don't think this can be the pope or the whole Vatican thing. Along with satan being the price or God of this world do you not see him working as an angel of light where by those who consider themselves as good and men of God yet still being of the world in all its ambitions. Nowhere is it more  useful to Satan than to mislead and guide the church especial with those of power and influence.

Do you think Pope Francis is worldly?

I don't think I know, but its not just pope Francis but the whole papal thing from the first day they put on their fancy robes and sat on a throne and men kissed their ring. from the first time they became a religious political entity ruling over the people of the land. people who had no more understanding of true salvation just being ignorant men who were taught salvation was adherence to authority ratyher then love for the Savior

"You don't think you know" and yet you say that "the pope is worldly".  That, my friend, is calumny, and a sin.  There is nothing about being a pope that is worldly or not.  Even if they wear papal robes, even if they wear a crown, even if people kiss their ring, this doesn't prove that they are worldly.  Being worldly means taking inordinate pleasure in the things of this world.  The papal ring, the papal crown, the papal robes, they are all now part of the papal office.  Wearing them when appropriate is an act of humility.  The things themselves give due justice to the office.  To be worldly would be to want to be pope just for the perceived "perks", or the power that comes along with that role. Wanting those things for those things in themselves is sinful, but those things in themselves are not sinful, nor is the pope having them sinful.

Whether something is sinful comes from an ordering of the heart.  Is being president of the united states sinful?  He lives in a really nice house, he wears suits to work each day, he wields a lot of power, he makes a lot of money.  Is the presidency therefore sinful?  Hardly!  However if the president was just there to have the power, and not there as a servant, then that could be sinful or lead him to sin.

To be worldly is to love the world and its things more than God.  It is not simply owning things, it is not simply having a position of power, etc.  It is a heart condition.  There have been worldly popes, yes, but the office of pope is not worldly by nature, nor are all (or even most) of the men who have been pope worldly.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reproveb the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;   Jn 16:7-10


Cath do you understand this verse?  I'm sure you will have an idea but if I know from all you say then I dougbt you do.  Why did Jesus refuse to sit on an earthly throne as God upon the earth but to rather send the Holy Spirit to establish personal faith and communion with God in the spirit

[mclees8]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

[Amo]

We would expect the Pope to be oh, Catholic.
Catholics do a lot of Mary stuff and this Pope seems to really like her.

If the Pope is correct, this is a good thing.

If the Pope isn't correct, this is irrelevant for non-Catholics.

If God doesn't like it, He can decide what to do about it.

He already has decided what to do about it.

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:1-4 (KJV)


Ioannes Paulus PP. II
Sollicitudo rei socialis

49. I have called the current Marian Year in order that the Catholic faithful may look more and more to Mary, who goes before us on the pilgrimage of faith and with maternal care intercedes for us before her Son, our Redeemer. I wish to entrust to her and to her intercession this difficult moment of the modern world, and the efforts that are being made and will be made, often with great suffering, in order to contribute to the true development of peoples proposed and proclaimed by my predecessor Paul VI.

In keeping with Christian piety through the ages, we present to the Blessed Virgin difficult individual situations, so that she may place them before her Son, asking that he alleviate and change them. But we also present to her social situations and the international crisis itself, in their worrying aspects of poverty, unemployment, shortage of food, the arms race, contempt for human rights, and situations or dangers of conflict, partial or total. In a filial spirit we wish to place all this before her "eyes of mercy," repeating once more with faith and hope the ancient antiphon: "Holy Mother of God, despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O glorious and blessed Virgin."

Mary most holy, our Mother and Queen, is the one who turns to her Son and says: "They have no more wine" (Jn 2:3). She is also the one who praises God the Father, because "he has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of low degree; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away" (Lk 1:52-53). Her maternal concern extends to the personal and social aspects of people's life on earth.

Before the Most Blessed Trinity, I entrust to Mary all that I have written in this Encyclical, and I invite all to reflect and actively commit themselves to promoting the true development of peoples, as the prayer of the Mass for this intention states so well: "Father, you have given all peoples one common origin, and your will is to gather them as one family in yourself. Fill the hearts of all with the fire of your love, and the desire to ensure justice for all their brothers and sisters. By sharing the good things you give us, may we secure justice and equality for every human being, an end to all division and a human society built on love and peace." This, in conclusion, is what I ask in the name of all my brothers and sisters, to whom I send a special blessing as a sign of greeting and good wishes.

Given in Rome, at St. Peter's, on December 30 of the year 1987, the tenth of my Pontificate.
JOHN PAUL II 




APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI
Pope John Paul II

86. I entrust this Apostolic Letter to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, that it may be received and put into practice by the Christian community. Without in any way detracting from the centrality of Christ and his Spirit, Mary is always present in the Church's Sunday. It is the mystery of Christ itself which demands this: indeed, how could she who is Mater Domini and Mater Ecclesiae fail to be uniquely present on the day which is both dies Domini and dies Ecclesiae?

As they listen to the word proclaimed in the Sunday assembly, the faithful look to the Virgin Mary, learning from her to keep it and ponder it in their hearts (cf. Lk 2:19). With Mary, they learn to stand at the foot of the Cross, offering to the Father the sacrifice of Christ and joining to it the offering of their own lives. With Mary, they experience the joy of the Resurrection, making their own the words of the Magnificat which extol the inexhaustible gift of divine mercy in the inexorable flow of time: "His mercy is from age to age upon those who fear him" (Lk 1:50). From Sunday to Sunday, the pilgrim people follow in the footsteps of Mary, and her maternal intercession gives special power and fervour to the prayer which rises from the Church to the Most Holy Trinity.



ENCYCLICAL LETTER
SPE SALVI
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
BENEDICT XVI

Mary, Star of Hope
49. With a hymn composed in the eighth or ninth century, thus for over a thousand years, the Church has greeted Mary, the Mother of God, as "Star of the Sea": Ave maris stella. Human life is a journey. Towards what destination? How do we find the way? Life is like a voyage on the sea of history, often dark and stormy, a voyage in which we watch for the stars that indicate the route. The true stars of our life are the people who have lived good lives. They are lights of hope. Certainly, Jesus Christ is the true light, the sun that has risen above all the shadows of history. But to reach him we also need lights close by—people who shine with his light and so guide us along our way. Who more than Mary could be a star of hope for us? With her "yes" she opened the door of our world to God himself; she became the living Ark of the Covenant, in whom God took flesh, became one of us, and pitched his tent among us (cf. Jn 1:14).

50. So we cry to her: Holy Mary, you belonged to the humble and great souls of Israel who, like Simeon, were "looking for the consolation of Israel" (Lk 2:25) and hoping, like Anna, "for the redemption of Jerusalem" (Lk 2:38). Your life was thoroughly imbued with the sacred scriptures of Israel which spoke of hope, of the promise made to Abraham and his descendants (cf. Lk 1:55). In this way we can appreciate the holy fear that overcame you when the angel of the Lord appeared to you and told you that you would give birth to the One who was the hope of Israel, the One awaited by the world. Through you, through your "yes", the hope of the ages became reality, entering this world and its history. You bowed low before the greatness of this task and gave your consent: "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word" (Lk 1:38). When you hastened with holy joy across the mountains of Judea to see your cousin Elizabeth, you became the image of the Church to come, which carries the hope of the world in her womb across the mountains of history. But alongside the joy which, with your Magnificat, you proclaimed in word and song for all the centuries to hear, you also knew the dark sayings of the prophets about the suffering of the servant of God in this world. Shining over his birth in the stable at Bethlehem, there were angels in splendour who brought the good news to the shepherds, but at the same time the lowliness of God in this world was all too palpable. The old man Simeon spoke to you of the sword which would pierce your soul (cf. Lk 2:35), of the sign of contradiction that your Son would be in this world. Then, when Jesus began his public ministry, you had to step aside, so that a new family could grow, the family which it was his mission to establish and which would be made up of those who heard his word and kept it (cf. Lk 11:27f). Notwithstanding the great joy that marked the beginning of Jesus's ministry, in the synagogue of Nazareth you must already have experienced the truth of the saying about the "sign of contradiction" (cf. Lk 4:28ff). In this way you saw the growing power of hostility and rejection which built up around Jesus until the hour of the Cross, when you had to look upon the Saviour of the world, the heir of David, the Son of God dying like a failure, exposed to mockery, between criminals. Then you received the word of Jesus: "Woman, behold, your Son!" (Jn 19:26). From the Cross you received a new mission. From the Cross you became a mother in a new way: the mother of all those who believe in your Son Jesus and wish to follow him. The sword of sorrow pierced your heart. Did hope die? Did the world remain definitively without light, and life without purpose? At that moment, deep down, you probably listened again to the word spoken by the angel in answer to your fear at the time of the Annunciation: "Do not be afraid, Mary!" (Lk 1:30). How many times had the Lord, your Son, said the same thing to his disciples: do not be afraid! In your heart, you heard this word again during the night of Golgotha. Before the hour of his betrayal he had said to his disciples: "Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world" (Jn 16:33). "Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid" (Jn 14:27). "Do not be afraid, Mary!" In that hour at Nazareth the angel had also said to you: "Of his kingdom there will be no end" (Lk 1:33). Could it have ended before it began? No, at the foot of the Cross, on the strength of Jesus's own word, you became the mother of believers. In this faith, which even in the darkness of Holy Saturday bore the certitude of hope, you made your way towards Easter morning. The joy of the Resurrection touched your heart and united you in a new way to the disciples, destined to become the family of Jesus through faith. In this way you were in the midst of the community of believers, who in the days following the Ascension prayed with one voice for the gift of the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 1:14) and then received that gift on the day of Pentecost. The "Kingdom" of Jesus was not as might have been imagined. It began in that hour, and of this "Kingdom" there will be no end. Thus you remain in the midst of the disciples as their Mother, as the Mother of hope. Holy Mary, Mother of God, our Mother, teach us to believe, to hope, to love with you. Show us the way to his Kingdom! Star of the Sea, shine upon us and guide us on our way!

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, on 30 November, the Feast of Saint Andrew the Apostle, in the year 2007, the third of my Pontificate.

BENEDICTUS PP. XVI



POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
AFRICAE MUNUS
OF HIS HOLINESS
POPE BENEDICT XVI

175. May "Saint Joseph, the good master of his house, who personally knows what it means to consider, attentively and hopefully, the future paths of the family, [and who] lovingly heard us and ushered us into the Synod itself",[225] protect and accompany the Church in her mission in service of Africa, the land where he found refuge and protection for the Holy Family (cf. Mt 2:13-15)! May the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Word of God and Our Lady of Africa, continue to accompany the whole Church by her intercession and her invitation to do whatever her Son tells us (cf. Jn 2:5)! May the prayers of Mary, Queen of Peace, whose heart is always inclined to God's will, sustain every effort at conversion; may she consolidate every initiative of reconciliation and strengthen every endeavour for peace in a world which hungers and thirsts for justice (cf. Mt 5:6).[226]




ENCYCLICAL LETTER
CARITAS IN VERITATE
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
BENEDICT XVI

At the conclusion of the Pauline Year, I gladly express this hope in the Apostle's own words, taken from the Letter to the Romans: "Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good; love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honour" (Rom 12:9-10). May the Virgin Mary — proclaimed Mater Ecclesiae by Paul VI and honoured by Christians as Speculum Iustitiae and Regina Pacis — protect us and obtain for us, through her heavenly intercession, the strength, hope and joy necessary to continue to dedicate ourselves with generosity to the task of bringing about the "development of the whole man and of all men"[159].

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, on 29 June, the Solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, in the year 2009, the fifth of my Pontificate.
BENEDICTUS PP. XVI



POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
VERBUM DOMINI
OF THE HOLY FATHER
BENEDICT XVI

Mary, "Mother of God's Word" and "Mother of Faith"
27. The Synod Fathers declared that the basic aim of the Twelfth Assembly was "to renew the Church's faith in the word of God". To do so, we need to look to the one in whom the interplay between the word of God and faith was brought to perfection, that is, to the Virgin Mary, "who by her 'yes' to the word of the covenant and her mission, perfectly fulfills the divine vocation of humanity".[79] The human reality created through the word finds its most perfect image in Mary's obedient faith. From the Annunciation to Pentecost she appears as a woman completely open to the will of God. She is the Immaculate Conception, the one whom God made "full of grace" (cf. Lk 1:28) and unconditionally docile to his word (cf. Lk 1:38). Her obedient faith shapes her life at every moment before God's plan. A Virgin ever attentive to God's word, she lives completely attuned to that word; she treasures in her heart the events of her Son, piecing them together as if in a single mosaic (cf. Lk 2:19,51).[80]
In our day the faithful need to be helped to see more clearly the link between Mary of Nazareth and the faith-filled hearing of God's word. I would encourage scholars as well to study the relationship between Mariology and the theology of the word. This could prove most beneficial both for the spiritual life and for theological and biblical studies. Indeed, what the understanding of the faith has enabled us to know about Mary stands at the heart of Christian truth. The incarnation of the word cannot be conceived apart from the freedom of this young woman who by her assent decisively cooperated with the entrance of the eternal into time. Mary is the image of the Church in attentive hearing of the word of God, which took flesh in her. Mary also symbolizes openness to God and others; an active listening which interiorizes and assimilates, one in which the word becomes a way of life.
28. Here I would like to mention Mary's familiarity with the word of God. This is clearly evident in the Magnificat. There we see in some sense how she identifies with the word, enters into it; in this marvellous canticle of faith, the Virgin sings the praises of the Lord in his own words: "The Magnificat – a portrait, so to speak, of her soul – is entirely woven from threads of Holy Scripture, threads drawn from the word of God. Here we see how completely at home Mary is with the word of God, with ease she moves in and out of it. She speaks and thinks with the word of God; the word of God becomes her word, and her word issues from the word of God. Here we see how her thoughts are attuned to the thoughts of God, how her will is one with the will of God. Since Mary is completely imbued with the word of God, she is able to become the Mother of the Word Incarnate".[81]
Furthermore, in looking to the Mother of God, we see how God's activity in the world always engages our freedom, because through faith the divine word transforms us. Our apostolic and pastoral work can never be effective unless we learn from Mary how to be shaped by the working of God within us: "devout and loving attention to the figure of Mary as the model and archetype of the Church's faith is of capital importance for bringing about in our day a concrete paradigm shift in the Church's relation with the word, both in prayerful listening and in generous commitment to mission and proclamation".[82]
As we contemplate in the Mother of God a life totally shaped by the word, we realize that we too are called to enter into the mystery of faith, whereby Christ comes to dwell in our lives. Every Christian believer, Saint Ambrose reminds us, in some way interiorly conceives and gives birth to the word of God: even though there is only one Mother of Christ in the flesh, in the faith Christ is the progeny of us all.[83] Thus, what took place for Mary can daily take place in each of us, in the hearing of the word and in the celebration of the sacraments.




POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
SACRAMENTUM CARITATIS
OF THE HOLY FATHER
BENEDICT XVI

The Eucharist and the Virgin Mary
33. From the relationship between the Eucharist and the individual sacraments, and from the eschatological significance of the sacred mysteries, the overall shape of the Christian life emerges, a life called at all times to be an act of spiritual worship, a self-offering pleasing to God. Although we are all still journeying towards the complete fulfilment of our hope, this does not mean that we cannot already gratefully acknowledge that God's gifts to us have found their perfect fulfilment in the Virgin Mary, Mother of God and our Mother. Mary's Assumption body and soul into heaven is for us a sign of sure hope, for it shows us, on our pilgrimage through time, the eschatological goal of which the sacrament of the Eucharist enables us even now to have a foretaste.
In Mary most holy, we also see perfectly fulfilled the "sacramental" way that God comes down to meet his creatures and involves them in his saving work. From the Annunciation to Pentecost, Mary of Nazareth appears as someone whose freedom is completely open to God's will. Her immaculate conception is revealed precisely in her unconditional docility to God's word. Obedient faith in response to God's work shapes her life at every moment. A virgin attentive to God's word, she lives in complete harmony with his will; she treasures in her heart the words that come to her from God and, piecing them together like a mosaic, she learns to understand them more deeply (cf. Lk 2:19, 51); Mary is the great Believer who places herself confidently in God's hands, abandoning herself to his will. (102) This mystery deepens as she becomes completely involved in the redemptive mission of Jesus. In the words of the Second Vatican Council, "the blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son until she stood at the Cross, in keeping with the divine plan (cf. Jn 19:25), suffering deeply with her only-begotten Son, associating herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of the victim who was born of her. Finally, she was given by the same Christ Jesus, dying on the Cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: 'Woman, behold your Son."' (103) From the Annunciation to the Cross, Mary is the one who received the Word, made flesh within her and then silenced in death. It is she, lastly, who took into her arms the lifeless body of the one who truly loved his own "to the end" (Jn 13:1).
Consequently, every time we approach the Body and Blood of Christ in the eucharistic liturgy, we also turn to her who, by her complete fidelity, received Christ's sacrifice for the whole Church. The Synod Fathers rightly declared that "Mary inaugurates the Church's participation in the sacrifice of the Redeemer." (104) She is the Immaculata, who receives God's gift unconditionally and is thus associated with his work of salvation. Mary of Nazareth, icon of the nascent Church, is the model for each of us, called to receive the gift that Jesus makes of himself in the Eucharist.


96. May Mary Most Holy, the Immaculate Virgin, ark of the new and eternal covenant, accompany us on our way to meet the Lord who comes. In her we find realized most perfectly the essence of the Church. The Church sees in Mary – "Woman of the Eucharist," as she was called by the Servant of God John Paul II (253) – her finest icon, and she contemplates Mary as a singular model of the eucharistic life. For this reason, as the priest prepares to receive on the altar the verum Corpus natum de Maria Virgine, speaking on behalf of the liturgical assembly, he says in the words of the canon: "We honour Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God" (254). Her holy name is also invoked and venerated in the canons of the Eastern Christian traditions. The faithful, for their part, "commend to Mary, Mother of the Church, their lives and the work of their hands. Striving to have the same sentiments as Mary, they help the whole community to become a living offering pleasing to the Father" (255). She is the tota pulchra, the all-beautiful, for in her the radiance of God's glory shines forth. The beauty of the heavenly liturgy, which must be reflected in our own assemblies, is faithfully mirrored in her. From Mary we must learn to become men and women of the Eucharist and of the Church, and thus to present ourselves, in the words of Saint Paul, "holy and blameless" before the Lord, even as he wished us to be from the beginning (cf. Col 1:22; Eph 1:4) (256).
97. Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, may the Holy Spirit kindle within us the same ardour experienced by the disciples on the way to Emmaus (cf. Lk 24:13-35) and renew our "eucharistic wonder" through the splendour and beauty radiating from the liturgical rite, the efficacious sign of the infinite beauty of the holy mystery of God. Those disciples arose and returned in haste to Jerusalem in order to share their joy with their brothers and sisters in the faith. True joy is found in recognizing that the Lord is still with us, our faithful companion along the way. The Eucharist makes us discover that Christ, risen from the dead, is our contemporary in the mystery of the Church, his body. Of this mystery of love we have become witnesses. Let us encourage one another to walk joyfully, our hearts filled with wonder, towards our encounter with the Holy Eucharist, so that we may experience and proclaim to others the truth of the words with which Jesus took leave of his disciples: "Lo, I am with you always, until the end of the world" (Mt 28:20).

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, on 22 February, the Feast of the Chair of Peter, in the year 2007, the second of my Pontificate.
BENEDICTUS PP. XVI

[HRoberson]

Then you don't need to worry about it.

[Helen]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

I cannot think of anything harder than changing your worldview, which is what that amounts to.  Who we are and what we do are based on what we believe to be true.  Just the change from evolution to creation took me five agonizing years of reading everything I could get my hands on and then finally having to decide whether I was going to stay with what I had been taught and 'everyone believed,' or whether I was going to go for the truth.   I don't know if anyone was praying for me, but I do know that abandoning one part of a person's foundation and switching over is very frightening.  You have to want the truth more than anything else in the world, and that can separate you from peer respect, friends, family, and so much else.  It's so, so hard.

[Amo]

Then you don't need to worry about it.

I'm not worried about it, I'm just giving the warning. It's my duty. If I don't share God's warnings, then their blood will be upon my hands.

16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Ezek 3:16-21 (KJV)

[AVZ]

I just wonder.
If statues are not exponentially necessary for worship...then why drag one all the way from Portugal?

[Catholica]

I just wonder.
If statues are not exponentially necessary for worship...then why drag one all the way from Portugal?

Because they wanted to.

If you think that Catholics hold that statues are necessary in worship, then you should ask yourself why Catholic masses are ever offered where there are no statues, which they have been and sometimes are.

[Catholica]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

[mclees8]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

[Catholica]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

I didn't "wave Mother Theresa around".  I suggested you read a book about the lives and teachings of St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.  Mother Theresa lived in the 20th century.  St. Theresa of Avila lived in the 16th century.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

Try reading the book. 

[HRoberson]

Then you don't need to worry about it.

I'm not worried about it, I'm just giving the warning. It's my duty. If I don't share God's warnings, then their blood will be upon my hands.

16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Ezek 3:16-21 (KJV)

I didn't know you thought the Pope was Jewish.

[FireSword]

The current pope is a Jesuit that's why he's among one of the best popes so far.

[mclees8]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

I didn't "wave Mother Theresa around".  I suggested you read a book about the lives and teachings of St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.  Mother Theresa lived in the 20th century.  St. Theresa of Avila lived in the 16th century.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

Try reading the book. 

You want me to read a book about Lady who had mystic experiences a lot like Marian visions and doing thing like mortifying the flesh. We are not talking about ones personal experiences but understanding the Holy Spirit for all believers. You really don't think Im going to read about mystic things

You never told my Why Jesus went back tot the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to establish our communion with God rather than to sit like a pope on a throne of men. You have only proven more so your own lack of understanding.

[Catholica]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

I didn't "wave Mother Theresa around".  I suggested you read a book about the lives and teachings of St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.  Mother Theresa lived in the 20th century.  St. Theresa of Avila lived in the 16th century.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

Try reading the book. 

You want me to read a book about Lady who had mystic experiences a lot like Marian visions and doing thing like mortifying the flesh. We are not talking about ones personal experiences but understanding the Holy Spirit for all believers. You really don't think Im going to read about mystic things

You never told my Why Jesus went back tot the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to establish our communion with God rather than to sit like a pope on a throne of men. You have only proven more so your own lack of understanding.

If you want to understand the Holy Spirit for all believers, then you have to understand the "sensus fidelium".  The Holy Spirit was sent to lead the faithful as a community into all truth, not to lead each and every individual into all truth.  As a community we can infallibly know the truth, not as individuals.  And that truth basically comes from adhering to what has been passed down from the apostles, which is the Gospel, confirmed in Scripture and Tradition, and especially safeguarded by the part of the community which makes up the Magisterium, who defined those truths when they were challenged by heretics in ecumenical councils.

Jesus went away so that we could be the ones to share the gospel in the world, so that God could work through us and in concert with us, so that through love and doing His will we would be made made perfect, made more like Jesus.

The Pope is the voice of the Church, who proclaims the faith from a special central place, just as Peter did at the Council of Jerusalem, just like the spiritual leader of Jews once did from the Seat of Moses.  The Bishops likewise have care for their local flocks, just as James did at the Council of Jerusalem.  In revelation letters were written to the seven churches, specifically their "angels".  These "angels" were symbolic for their bishops.  The letters were written to the local bishops from the central authority of the apostles via the authority of God.

The Church has always had a central authority.  It has always had ordained leadership.  And their beliefs, though then in a primitive formulation (there are some things that I cannot tell you now, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, saith the Lord), are still proclaimed by the Catholic Church to this day.

Your focus on the politics of Church operation, on the personal influence of the bishops and the pope on the people of the world, the fact that they wear robes and seem to take part in places of honor completely misses the point of the Gospel.  The Catholic Church isn't a human established organization, they are divinely established, and yet they are humans and so also use human expressions that reflect that truth. You simply deny the divine institution of the Church.  So of course it just looks like another human institution to you.  But yet you fail to understand the Catholic faith that they proclaim or acknowledge the goodness and beauty that living the Catholic faith brings.

The book I recommended was not one that talks just about the lives of these two saints.  There is only one chapter on that.  The book actually focuses on how every day people can live the Gospel more perfectly in their lives.  These saints proclaim the Catholic faith and the book focuses on the actual Gospel and applying it.  It would help you see how our eyes are open and how living the Catholic faith is actually closer to God than almost anyone knows.

Instead it seems that you prefer to get your undies in a bundle over the hat the pope wears and whether that means he is worldly.  You are wasting your time with that tripe, and I am wasting my time responding to it, frankly.

[Red Baker]

"and Tradition"Wrong

"The Pope is the voice of the Church"Wrong

" just as Peter did at the Council of Jerusalem,"Wrong

"just as James did at the Council of Jerusalem."Wrong

"These "angels" were symbolic for their bishops."Wrong

"The letters were written to the local bishops"Wrong

"The Church has always had a central authority."Wrong

"And their beliefs, though then in a primitive formulation (there are some things that I cannot tell you now, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, saith the Lord), are still proclaimed by the Catholic Church to this day."Wrong

"The Catholic Church isn't a human established organization, they are divinely established,"Wrong

" and I am wasting my time responding to it, frankly." You are, if you think that you can support such things with the word of God, or any of the above.

RB

[Catholica]

"and Tradition"Wrong

"The Pope is the voice of the Church"Wrong

" just as Peter did at the Council of Jerusalem,"Wrong

"just as James did at the Council of Jerusalem."Wrong

"These "angels" were symbolic for their bishops."Wrong

"The letters were written to the local bishops"Wrong

"The Church has always had a central authority."Wrong

"And their beliefs, though then in a primitive formulation (there are some things that I cannot tell you now, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, saith the Lord), are still proclaimed by the Catholic Church to this day."Wrong

"The Catholic Church isn't a human established organization, they are divinely established,"Wrong

" and I am wasting my time responding to it, frankly." You are, if you think that you can support such things with the word of God, or any of the above.

RB

If you say so.

[mclees8]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

I didn't "wave Mother Theresa around".  I suggested you read a book about the lives and teachings of St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.  Mother Theresa lived in the 20th century.  St. Theresa of Avila lived in the 16th century.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

Try reading the book. 

You want me to read a book about Lady who had mystic experiences a lot like Marian visions and doing thing like mortifying the flesh. We are not talking about ones personal experiences but understanding the Holy Spirit for all believers. You really don't think Im going to read about mystic things

You never told my Why Jesus went back tot the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to establish our communion with God rather than to sit like a pope on a throne of men. You have only proven more so your own lack of understanding.

If you want to understand the Holy Spirit for all believers, then you have to understand the "sensus fidelium".  The Holy Spirit was sent to lead the faithful as a community into all truth, not to lead each and every individual into all truth.  As a community we can infallibly know the truth, not as individuals.  And that truth basically comes from adhering to what has been passed down from the apostles, which is the Gospel, confirmed in Scripture and Tradition, and especially safeguarded by the part of the community which makes up the Magisterium, who defined those truths when they were challenged by heretics in ecumenical councils.

Jesus went away so that we could be the ones to share the gospel in the world, so that God could work through us and in concert with us, so that through love and doing His will we would be made made perfect, made more like Jesus.

The Pope is the voice of the Church, who proclaims the faith from a special central place, just as Peter did at the Council of Jerusalem, just like the spiritual leader of Jews once did from the Seat of Moses.  The Bishops likewise have care for their local flocks, just as James did at the Council of Jerusalem.  In revelation letters were written to the seven churches, specifically their "angels".  These "angels" were symbolic for their bishops.  The letters were written to the local bishops from the central authority of the apostles via the authority of God.

The Church has always had a central authority.  It has always had ordained leadership.  And their beliefs, though then in a primitive formulation (there are some things that I cannot tell you now, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, saith the Lord), are still proclaimed by the Catholic Church to this day.

Your focus on the politics of Church operation, on the personal influence of the bishops and the pope on the people of the world, the fact that they wear robes and seem to take part in places of honor completely misses the point of the Gospel.  The Catholic Church isn't a human established organization, they are divinely established, and yet they are humans and so also use human expressions that reflect that truth. You simply deny the divine institution of the Church.  So of course it just looks like another human institution to you.  But yet you fail to understand the Catholic faith that they proclaim or acknowledge the goodness and beauty that living the Catholic faith brings.

The book I recommended was not one that talks just about the lives of these two saints.  There is only one chapter on that.  The book actually focuses on how every day people can live the Gospel more perfectly in their lives.  These saints proclaim the Catholic faith and the book focuses on the actual Gospel and applying it.  It would help you see how our eyes are open and how living the Catholic faith is actually closer to God than almost anyone knows.

Instead it seems that you prefer to get your undies in a bundle over the hat the pope wears and whether that means he is worldly.  You are wasting your time with that tripe, and I am wasting my time responding to it, frankly.

You have given a little bit to respond to. so I am going to put it in ' MS word" so that I can respond carefully. But to start it is not about what he wares but the spirit behind it. It is this that you cannot see nor do you seem to want to. You are right that Christ went back to the Father so that we could be the ones to spread the Gospel but that is only part of it. The other part concerns original sin and mans desire to be as God. This is where your central authority figure comes in.I will attempt explain this but I will get back to you.

Shall I go on or are you writing me off

[Catholica]

Tonight Susan asked me why does God not open the eyes of Catholics. Spiritual blindness is not just a Catholic problem. I said its because they do not desire have their eyes opened because if they truly wanted to understand he would most certainly do it. If your eyes were then opened it would shake the very foundation of the only faith and knowledge traditions that are the very security you stand on.

You should read the writings of the Saints, if you don't think God opens the eyes of Catholics.  A good book to read is "Fire Within: St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross and the Gospel - On Prayer"

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-On-Prayer/dp/0898702631

Why do you wave Mother Teresa around as if she justifies Catholicism. She is a tremendous women of faith but being Catholic is not the fire that drives  her. I never said that all Catholics were blind and the blindness is not just Catholics. Just as Mother Teresa is a tremendous person of virtue there are others who are not  Catholic who are like her but not given the limelight. Their reward is yet to come. 

I was sure my statement would be met with indignation yet I was wrong. Perhaps there is hope after all.

I didn't "wave Mother Theresa around".  I suggested you read a book about the lives and teachings of St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.  Mother Theresa lived in the 20th century.  St. Theresa of Avila lived in the 16th century.

There is one other thing that keeps one blind and that is because they believe their eyes are opened. If your eyes were opened then you would know the things said are true.

Try reading the book. 

You want me to read a book about Lady who had mystic experiences a lot like Marian visions and doing thing like mortifying the flesh. We are not talking about ones personal experiences but understanding the Holy Spirit for all believers. You really don't think Im going to read about mystic things

You never told my Why Jesus went back tot the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to establish our communion with God rather than to sit like a pope on a throne of men. You have only proven more so your own lack of understanding.

If you want to understand the Holy Spirit for all believers, then you have to understand the "sensus fidelium".  The Holy Spirit was sent to lead the faithful as a community into all truth, not to lead each and every individual into all truth.  As a community we can infallibly know the truth, not as individuals.  And that truth basically comes from adhering to what has been passed down from the apostles, which is the Gospel, confirmed in Scripture and Tradition, and especially safeguarded by the part of the community which makes up the Magisterium, who defined those truths when they were challenged by heretics in ecumenical councils.

Jesus went away so that we could be the ones to share the gospel in the world, so that God could work through us and in concert with us, so that through love and doing His will we would be made made perfect, made more like Jesus.

The Pope is the voice of the Church, who proclaims the faith from a special central place, just as Peter did at the Council of Jerusalem, just like the spiritual leader of Jews once did from the Seat of Moses.  The Bishops likewise have care for their local flocks, just as James did at the Council of Jerusalem.  In revelation letters were written to the seven churches, specifically their "angels".  These "angels" were symbolic for their bishops.  The letters were written to the local bishops from the central authority of the apostles via the authority of God.

The Church has always had a central authority.  It has always had ordained leadership.  And their beliefs, though then in a primitive formulation (there are some things that I cannot tell you now, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, saith the Lord), are still proclaimed by the Catholic Church to this day.

Your focus on the politics of Church operation, on the personal influence of the bishops and the pope on the people of the world, the fact that they wear robes and seem to take part in places of honor completely misses the point of the Gospel.  The Catholic Church isn't a human established organization, they are divinely established, and yet they are humans and so also use human expressions that reflect that truth. You simply deny the divine institution of the Church.  So of course it just looks like another human institution to you.  But yet you fail to understand the Catholic faith that they proclaim or acknowledge the goodness and beauty that living the Catholic faith brings.

The book I recommended was not one that talks just about the lives of these two saints.  There is only one chapter on that.  The book actually focuses on how every day people can live the Gospel more perfectly in their lives.  These saints proclaim the Catholic faith and the book focuses on the actual Gospel and applying it.  It would help you see how our eyes are open and how living the Catholic faith is actually closer to God than almost anyone knows.

Instead it seems that you prefer to get your undies in a bundle over the hat the pope wears and whether that means he is worldly.  You are wasting your time with that tripe, and I am wasting my time responding to it, frankly.

You have given a little bit to respond to. so I am going to put it in ' MS word" so that I can respond carefully. But to start it is not about what he wares but the spirit behind it. It is this that you cannot see nor do you seem to want to. You are right that Christ went back to the Father so that we could be the ones to spread the Gospel but that is only part of it. The other part concerns original sin and mans desire to be as God. This is where your central authority figure comes in.I will attempt explain this but I will get back to you.

Shall I go on or are you writing me off

Man's desire to be as God is best represented in this day as those who interpret the scriptures without regard for those teachings which were handed down and those truths previously defined, that is, each man assumes the place as infallible interpreter.  While with false piety they claim to be fallible, they act as if they are infallible, all the while denigrating the authority given to others by God to actually take that role, a role which they (de facto) usurp for themselves though they are loathe to say so.

The Pope, the hierarchy, and all the lay faithful realize that they are not God by adhering to that which was handed down to them instead of attempting to discern their own "truth" for themselves.  The Pope's job is to be a servant of the servants of God.  And he is truly being like God, but not because he is acting as he who is almighty, but because he is acting as Jesus did, just as Jesus instructed the apostles to be.  Through Jesus we "take part in the divine nature" and so God makes us like unto His son by our co-operation with His grace.

This truth has been attempted to be replaced by a legal-transactional "gospel" in which the individual believer has no responsibility for his actions (a belief which he proudly proclaims, though not with those words, rather with the words "faith alone"), while also claiming those who follow the true Gospel "deny the efficacy of Christ's finished work" and call they who proclaim the commandments "legalists".  The efficacy of Christ's finished work redeemed us and makes it possible for us to be saved, and His continual shedding of his grace on us makes us able to be like him if we will it.

You don't know the spirit behind any individual and whether that person's heart is desiring a position in the Church for themselves or rather as a steward for others.  They both have the same outward appearance to them.  If you do so, you judge a person, and this is the true biblical meaning of judging, covered by "judge not".  Heaven forbid you ever take any pride in any position you believe yourself to be in, as God will judge you as you have judged others.

Perhaps in your Word document you can make sure that you don't judge another person or all people in those roles as a whole.  Lest you be judged.  That will make for an interesting response indeed.

[Helen]

"vicar" is from the old English for 'substitute,' which is from the Latin, meaning the same, and the root is related to 'vice.'  Interesting.

So when the Pope has, as one of his titles, 'vicar of Christ,' his very title is trying to place him in place of Christ. 

Man trying to be a god, and all that.

[Catholica]

"vicar" is from the old English for 'substitute,' which is from the Latin, meaning the same, and the root is related to 'vice.'  Interesting.

So when the Pope has, as one of his titles, 'vicar of Christ,' his very title is trying to place him in place of Christ. 

Man trying to be a god, and all that.

This explanation from Wikipedia will help you.

A vicar (/ˈvɪkər/; Latin: vicarius) is a representative, deputy or substitute; anyone acting "in the person of" or agent for a superior (compare "vicarious" in the sense of "at second hand"). In this sense, the title is comparable to lieutenant. Linguistically, vicar is the root of the English prefix "vice", similarly meaning "deputy".

Vice as an English prefix, such as "Vice" as in "vice president" or "vice regent".  Is the Vice President the president of vice in America?  Or does this meaning of "vice" mean something different?

The English word (not prefix) "vice" as in something to do with sin comes from the Latin root "vitium" which means a "fault" or "defect".  The fact that there are two meanings of "vice" in the English language is really an artifact of history.  The two words mean completely different things.

[Helen]

anyone can write in Wiki.  Catholics HAVE to change the original meanings of a number of words in order to stay viable.