Having trouble with Pope Francis?

[Paulus]

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

I am just going to have over look Paulus with his attacks on proper word use. I think he does that to try and diminish my comments.

Wrong again .

Can't you understand the importance of the correct usage of words ?

If we don't use words accurately we don't get the truth . I happen to believe that the truth is important .

How ever I will watch how I describe things and make  statements.
Have a blessed day

Well , my brother in Christ , that will be a step forward .

You too have a blessed day .

[FireSword]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

The office is not limited to Pope Francis but also includes the cardinals and Bishops and these also make statements, such as the recent one about Atheists are not saved. Also the office has to speak when Pope Francis is no longer available is some form.

Your problem with the English language does not improve .

The office of the papacy is the ministry carried out by Pope Francis .

The office of the papacy does not include cardinals and bishops . They have their own office in their own right .

You must get a better grasp of the Queen's English .

From what I can gather from your words you are confusing the Papacy with the Magisterium . They are not the same .

The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church which is held by Pope Francis and all the other bishops of the Church , and is especially evident in Ecumenical Councils .

I suggest that you read the document "Christus Dominus" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church .
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_christus-dominus_en.html

You really must choose your words more accurately , and not speak of matters of which you have such a poor knowledge .

Anyway back to Pope France who holds the office of the papacy . I suspect that bigoted anti-Catholics are irked by Pope Francis .

Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

Please follow the conversation or please do not participate for the benefit of others.
In following mcless8 who spoke of the office of the pope, this office is linked to the Vatican and so the Vatican contains the magisterium, which all popes are bound by.
Here is a few definitions I looked up the word 'speak'.
1.  To articulate in a speaking voice: spoke words of wisdom.

2.  To converse in or be able to converse in (a language): speaks German.

3.
a.  To express aloud; tell: speak the truth.

b.  To express in writing.

4.  Nautical To hail and communicate with (another vessel) at sea.

5.  To convey by nonverbal means: His eyes spoke volumes.

If the pope were not longer present the magisterium is still there expressed in writing for reading or orating, thus the office the vatican speaks, the ghost of past popes are upon it.

[winsome]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

The office is not limited to Pope Francis but also includes the cardinals and Bishops and these also make statements, such as the recent one about Atheists are not saved. Also the office has to speak when Pope Francis is no longer available is some form.

Your problem with the English language does not improve .

The office of the papacy is the ministry carried out by Pope Francis .

The office of the papacy does not include cardinals and bishops . They have their own office in their own right .

You must get a better grasp of the Queen's English .

From what I can gather from your words you are confusing the Papacy with the Magisterium . They are not the same .

The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church which is held by Pope Francis and all the other bishops of the Church , and is especially evident in Ecumenical Councils .

I suggest that you read the document "Christus Dominus" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church .
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_christus-dominus_en.html

You really must choose your words more accurately , and not speak of matters of which you have such a poor knowledge .

Anyway back to Pope France who holds the office of the papacy . I suspect that bigoted anti-Catholics are irked by Pope Francis .

Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

Please follow the conversation or please do not participate for the benefit of others.
In following mcless8 who spoke of the office of the pope, this office is linked to the Vatican and so the Vatican contains the magisterium, which all popes are bound by.
Here is a few definitions I looked up the word 'speak'.
1.  To articulate in a speaking voice: spoke words of wisdom.

2.  To converse in or be able to converse in (a language): speaks German.

3.
a.  To express aloud; tell: speak the truth.

b.  To express in writing.

4.  Nautical To hail and communicate with (another vessel) at sea.

5.  To convey by nonverbal means: His eyes spoke volumes.

If the pope were not longer present the magisterium is still there expressed in writing for reading or orating, thus the office the vatican speaks, the ghost of past popes are upon it.

You are hopelessly confused about the Magisterium but I will leave it to Paulus to enlighten you.

[Paulus]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

The office is not limited to Pope Francis but also includes the cardinals and Bishops and these also make statements, such as the recent one about Atheists are not saved. Also the office has to speak when Pope Francis is no longer available is some form.

Your problem with the English language does not improve .

The office of the papacy is the ministry carried out by Pope Francis .

The office of the papacy does not include cardinals and bishops . They have their own office in their own right .

You must get a better grasp of the Queen's English .

From what I can gather from your words you are confusing the Papacy with the Magisterium . They are not the same .

The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church which is held by Pope Francis and all the other bishops of the Church , and is especially evident in Ecumenical Councils .

I suggest that you read the document "Christus Dominus" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church .
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_christus-dominus_en.html

You really must choose your words more accurately , and not speak of matters of which you have such a poor knowledge .

Anyway back to Pope France who holds the office of the papacy . I suspect that bigoted anti-Catholics are irked by Pope Francis .

Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

the Vatican contains the magisterium, which all popes are bound by.

No . No . No .

Where do you get your misinformation from ?

You say , " The Vatican contains the magisterium, which all popes are bound by. "

How does the Vatican contain the magisterium ?

How are all popes bound by the magisterium ?

When you have clarified matters with your answers to these two questions , I will deal with your muddled thinking about the word "magisterium" , a word you evidently do not underststand .

You are going to have to brush up on your English you know .

The standard of English language on this thread is appalling .

Pope Francis is not very fluent in English , but he takes care with his words .

Pope Francis delivers first English language public address .
Pope Francis speaking English Roman Catholic leader delivers first English language public address

[FireSword]

Is there a word that popes are bound by? I have heard it spoken by Catholics here about how popes cannot change various doctrines unless it is in agreement by what went before.

[Paulus]

Is there a word that popes are bound by? I have heard it spoken by Catholics here about how popes cannot change various doctrines unless it is in agreement by what went before.

If you are looking for one word that popes are bound by it is "truth" .

Over nearly 2000 years the Magisterium has been guided by the Holy Spirit .

During those centuries the Magisterium has decided that there are certain things which are so necessary for the expression of the  fullness of Divine Revelation that belief in them is necessary to have total belief in the truth .

Such truths are for all , and a pope has to be believe in them in just the same way as others have . A pope is subject to the truth and has no authority to change it .

For example , the doctrine of the full humanity and full divinity of Christ , present in Scripture though not as explicit as we express it today , was defined explicitly by the Magisterium at the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon , which was in the then called Asia Minor , in 451 A.D. Any pope is just as much subject to that doctrine as any other Christian is .

Again the Magisterium was at work in the Ecumenical Council of Nicea II , in present day Turkey ,  in 787 A.D . It declared that images are acceptable as aids to worship in opposition to the iconoclasts who rejected the use of images as wrong . No pope can be an iconoclast after that .

At the Ecumenical Council of Trent in Northern Italy ( 1545-1563 ) the Magisterium defined that there are seven sacraments instituted by Christ for our salvation and sanctification . No pope can come along and say , " Oh no . The Sacrament of Reconciliation was not instituted by Christ . "

What is the Magisterium ?

Quite simply it is teaching authority of the Church in submission to the truth as exercised by the Pope and the other bishops of the Church .

It is exercised in various ways , mainly through Ecumenical Councils as the examples above show .

The Magisterium can also be exercised by a pope in consultation with the other bishops of the Church . This was the case when the dogma of the Assumption of Mary was defined .

[mclees8]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Mike
Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents.  He stated the media only sees nuns priests Cardinal and popes. The media sees that because its what we all see. They are the ones who portray all we see. The grand religious parade all the robes and hats and acts piety the titles that say we are the authority of God upon the earth. As wonderful as it is that he recognizes that there is a spirit  of the world he is still blind.
He uses words like despoil and denude, then he needs to despoil and denude the Vatican. , but he cannot and will not because it is all vital to portray the  bishops the priests and the popes  to the world as exalted in a visual way. This is only part of their worldliness . They must entertain the political leaders of the world so as to be connected to the whole vast systems of the world which is religious political and monetary Babylon all described in REV 17& 18 You cannot portray and teach not to be worldly in one hand and be integrated with the world on the other

Did not Frnces quote " you cannot serve two masters"

[Paulus]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents. 

What is the worldliness represented by Pope Francis ?

Take a look at this video of him greeting the people after the first Sunday Eucharist he celebrated after being elected Bishop of Rome .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass  .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass
Where is the worldliness in this simple and loving pastor ?

[mclees8]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents. 

What is the worldliness represented by Pope Francis ?

Take a look at this video of him greeting the people after the first Sunday Eucharist he celebrated after being elected Bishop of Rome .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass  .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass
Where is the worldliness in this simple and loving pastor ?

I see The Pontiff, The one you call The Holy Father greeting people out side a church wearing purple robes with His Swiss guard wearing  clown out fits near by. He is not just a simple pastor but His Eminence. I also see other priests in black wearing red sashes. The same colors spoken of in REV 17. But the pope represents much more than some simple pastor  greeting people outside a church, He also greets the kings and the diplomats of the world in His palace where he sits on a throne and men then will kiss his ring.

What is worldly about all this? I have already said it .
God bless

[Paulus]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents. 

What is the worldliness represented by Pope Francis ?

Take a look at this video of him greeting the people after the first Sunday Eucharist he celebrated after being elected Bishop of Rome .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass  .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass
Where is the worldliness in this simple and loving pastor ?

I see The Pontiff greeting people out side a church wearing purple robes

Of course you do . 

On that day every Roman Catholic priest celebrating the Eucharist would have worn purple vestments , being Lent and purple being the colour symbolizing repentance it is normal practice .

In the following link you see Pope Francis wearing an indigenous feathered hat given to him by representatives of one of Brazil's native tribes during a meeting  in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/27/pope-francis-indian-headdress_n_3664000.html

I wonder what strange interpretation you will put on that . 

[mclees8]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents. 

What is the worldliness represented by Pope Francis ?

Take a look at this video of him greeting the people after the first Sunday Eucharist he celebrated after being elected Bishop of Rome .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass  .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass
Where is the worldliness in this simple and loving pastor ?

I see The Pontiff greeting people out side a church wearing purple robes

Of course you do . 

On that day every Roman Catholic priest celebrating the Eucharist would have worn purple vestments , being Lent and purple being the colour symbolizing repentance it is normal practice .

In the following link you see Pope Francis wearing an indigenous feathered hat given to him by representatives of one of Brazil's native tribes during a meeting  in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/27/pope-francis-indian-headdress_n_3664000.html

I wonder what strange interpretation you will put on that . 

I just stated what I saw, and every time I see those colors I remember that the Harlot of REV 17 was arrayed in these very colors. Just coincidence  . That same Entity that is spoken of metaphorically also had power over the kings of the earth. Has not the papacy had much influence in the world and its leaders. Just an observation that has been around for a long time. Who said that purple signifies lent and when was this instituted?

You say this particular purple robe  signifies repentance . Do all Catholics ware purple for lent or just the magisterial? I wonder If Jesus instituted this and if Peter wore purple or any colorful religious garb. What do you think  What interpretation can you give for this.

[Paulus]

The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Pope Francis says the right things all the while he does not see the worldliness of the order he represents. 

What is the worldliness represented by Pope Francis ?

Take a look at this video of him greeting the people after the first Sunday Eucharist he celebrated after being elected Bishop of Rome .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass  .
Pope Francis greets faithful at St. Anne Parish after mass
Where is the worldliness in this simple and loving pastor ?

I see The Pontiff greeting people out side a church wearing purple robes

Of course you do . 

On that day every Roman Catholic priest celebrating the Eucharist would have worn purple vestments , being Lent and purple being the colour symbolizing repentance it is normal practice .

In the following link you see Pope Francis wearing an indigenous feathered hat given to him by representatives of one of Brazil's native tribes during a meeting  in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/27/pope-francis-indian-headdress_n_3664000.html

I wonder what strange interpretation you will put on that . 

I just stated what I saw, and every time I see those colors I remember that the Harlot of REV 17 was arrayed in these very colors. Just coincidence  . That same Entity that is spoken of metaphorically also had power over the kings of the earth. Has not the papacy had much influence in the world and its leaders. Just an observation that has been around for a long time. Who said that purple signifies lent and when was this instituted?

You say this particular purple robe  signifies repentance . Do all Catholics ware purple for lent or just the magisterial? I wonder If Jesus instituted this and if Peter wore purple or any colorful religious garb. What do you think  What interpretation can you give for this.

You say : " The harlot in Rev was arrayed in purple . " So what ?

You ask : " Has not the papacy had much influence in the world and its leaders ? "

I hope Pope Francis has much influence in the world and upon its leaders ,
just as Good Pope John XXIII did .
A War Prevented: Pope John XXIII and the Cuban Missile Crisis
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/preventing-war-pope-john-xxiii-and-the-cuban-missile-crisis

You ask : " Who said that purple signifies lent and when was this instituted? "

The Magisterium which shepherds the Church in its liturgy I assume . Purple is used for two reasons: firstly because it is associated with mourning and so anticipates the pain and suffering of the crucifixion , and secondly because purple is the colour associated with royalty, and celebrates Christ's resurrection and sovereignty.  (  "They put on Him a purple robe. Then they said, Hail, King of the Jews!" (John 19:1-5). I do not know when the practice began .

You ask : " You say this particular purple robe  signifies repentance . Do all Catholics ware purple for lent or just the magisterial? I wonder If Jesus instituted this and if Peter wore purple or any colorful religious garb. What do you think ? "

No all Catholics do not wear purple during Lent . Those who are deacons , priests and bishops wear purple vestments in Lent .

I do not know what "the magisterial" means . The word "magisterial" is an adjective not a noun , so as far as I am aware there is no thing as "the magisterial" .

I haven't a clue whether Jesus instituted this or whether Peter wore purple or any colourful religious garb. It's not a big issue as if one's faith depended upon it .

As to your question " What do you think ? "

I think you are nitpicking , and need to get to the basics of Catholicism instead of being obsessed by the peripheral .

Take a leaf out of Pope Francis' book , and get on with life , proclaiming the Gospel by word and deed .
For example , Pope Francis on Holy Thursday washed the feet of 12 young offenders at a detention centre in Rome.

He washed and kissed the feet of a dozen inmates aged 14 to 21, two of whom were female.

No pope has ever washed a woman's feet before and, in another break with tradition, one of the female prisoners was also a Serbian Muslim.

"Among us the one who is highest up must be at the service of others. This is a symbol, it is a sign -- washing your feet means I am at your service," he told them.
Pope Francis washes prisoners' feet

[Paulus]

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

I have listened to the sermon , and I can understand why the preacher wished his name to be withheld .

I found it very distasteful .

He goes on about the grave sins of past popes .

The whole thing , with its circuitous insinuations , leaves a bad taste in my mouth .

Why did he have to say this at the time when Pope Francis is in the early stages of his ministry as Bishop of Rome ?

No wonder some Roman Catholics are having trouble with Pope Francis when they are submitted to this sort of stuff from preachers .

[HRoberson]

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

I have listened to the sermon , and I can understand why the preacher wished his name to be withheld .

I found it very distasteful .

He goes on about the grave sins of past popes .

The whole thing , with its circuitous insinuations , leaves a bad taste in my mouth .

Why did he have to say this at the time when Pope Francis is in the early stages of his ministry as Bishop of Rome ?

No wonder some Roman Catholics are having trouble with Pope Francis when they are submitted to this sort of stuff from preachers .

Yes, I had the same "feel." It did seem as though he was saying "just bide your time, this Pope will be gone eventually." Being a low-church Protestant I was hesitant to say so since this is an internecine Catholic argument.

[mclees8]

Something is blocking me from posting, Just testing

I guess its OK now

[Paulus]

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

I have listened to the sermon , and I can understand why the preacher wished his name to be withheld .

I found it very distasteful .

He goes on about the grave sins of past popes .

The whole thing , with its circuitous insinuations , leaves a bad taste in my mouth .

Why did he have to say this at the time when Pope Francis is in the early stages of his ministry as Bishop of Rome ?

No wonder some Roman Catholics are having trouble with Pope Francis when they are submitted to this sort of stuff from preachers .

Yes, I had the same "feel." It did seem as though he was saying "just bide your time, this Pope will be gone eventually." Being a low-church Protestant I was hesitant to say so since this is an internecine Catholic argument.

Well that hasn't made Protestants hesitant before .

I have lived during the papacies of seven popes :-

Pius XII

John XXIII

Paul VI

John Paul I

John Paul II

Benedict XVI

Francis I

Each one was different from the other . Naturally they had their own personalities and gifts .

One would not be human if one were not more attracted to some more than to others .

I came to "know" and love each of them , but I admit that I was critical of some of the things some of them did and I did have my favourites .

What I object to is the insidiousness and subterfuge within an apparently sincere discourse . I will not merit such with the word "sermon" .

[Catholica]

The priest was not saying, IIRC, that he has a problem with the pope. In fact I believe that he said he thinks Francis will be a good pope. But there are people out there who get afraid, because they hear the media say that Francis said this thing that atheists are saved or that homosexual sin should not be judged or this or that. I don't believe that any of those reports are accurate in context of orthodox Christianity ie Catholicism. But some perceive some of the things he said or did as not orthodox. And so the point of the talk is that it doesn't matter how bad any pope is, we are still part of one church and we must still honor the office and trust the Holy Spirit.

[HRoberson]

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

I have listened to the sermon , and I can understand why the preacher wished his name to be withheld .

I found it very distasteful .

He goes on about the grave sins of past popes .

The whole thing , with its circuitous insinuations , leaves a bad taste in my mouth .

Why did he have to say this at the time when Pope Francis is in the early stages of his ministry as Bishop of Rome ?

No wonder some Roman Catholics are having trouble with Pope Francis when they are submitted to this sort of stuff from preachers .

Yes, I had the same "feel." It did seem as though he was saying "just bide your time, this Pope will be gone eventually." Being a low-church Protestant I was hesitant to say so since this is an internecine Catholic argument.

Well that hasn't made Protestants hesitant before

This Protestant is able to let you have your own squabbles.

[Paulus]

The priest was not saying, IIRC, that he has a problem with the pope. In fact I believe that he said he thinks Francis will be a good pope. But there are people out there who get afraid, because they hear the media say that Francis said this thing that atheists are saved or that homosexual sin should not be judged or this or that. I don't believe that any of those reports are accurate in context of orthodox Christianity ie Catholicism. But some perceive some of the things he said or did as not orthodox. And so the point of the talk is that it doesn't matter how bad any pope is, we are still part of one church and we must still honor the office and trust the Holy Spirit.

In the OP you say that you are feeling somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing .

Then you go on to give a link to a talk given by an anonymous preacher .

This preacher starts by talking about the 897 Synod of Rome , and then gives a litany of evils committed by certain popes .

Then he talks of the confusion about what is going on these days during the papacy of Pope Francis .

He talks about a storm within the Church and crazy things going on . He speaks about scandal  , the pope saying things causing consternation .

He refers to the words and behaviour of the pope .

He says that the pope can makes things pretty rough .

He mentions "the terrible chaos following the Council " .

All this is rather vague , and one is left wondering whether what he is saying is in fact is about Pope Francis . He says that he admires the present pope . If he did admire Pope Francis one would have thought that he would have addressed specific issues , and would have indicated how these issues are words and deeds taken out of context and explained how Pope Francis is doing nothing but fulfilling his ministry in a Christ-like way .

Instead all he does is tell people to get closer to Christ and his mother . He could have said that if you follow the example of Pope Francis , quoting the words and deeds of Pope Francis , you would get closer to Christ and his mother .

I would have preferred the preacher to be up front and say : " Look I wish Pope Benedict was still pope , because I don't like what Pope Francis is saying and doing " . And the same goes for you Catholica .

[Catholica]

The priest was not saying, IIRC, that he has a problem with the pope. In fact I believe that he said he thinks Francis will be a good pope. But there are people out there who get afraid, because they hear the media say that Francis said this thing that atheists are saved or that homosexual sin should not be judged or this or that. I don't believe that any of those reports are accurate in context of orthodox Christianity ie Catholicism. But some perceive some of the things he said or did as not orthodox. And so the point of the talk is that it doesn't matter how bad any pope is, we are still part of one church and we must still honor the office and trust the Holy Spirit.

In the OP you say that you are feeling somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing .

Then you go on to give a link to a talk given by an anonymous preacher .

This preacher starts by talking about the 897 Synod of Rome , and then gives a litany of evils committed by certain popes .

Then he talks of the confusion about what is going on these days during the papacy of Pope Francis .

He talks about a storm within the Church and crazy things going on . He speaks about scandal  , the pope saying things causing consternation .

He refers to the words and behaviour of the pope .

He says that the pope can makes things pretty rough .

He mentions "the terrible chaos following the Council " .

All this is rather vague , and one is left wondering whether what he is saying is in fact is about Pope Francis . He says that he admires the present pope . If he did admire Pope Francis one would have thought that he would have addressed specific issues , and would have indicated how these issues are words and deeds taken out of context and explained how Pope Francis is doing nothing but fulfilling his ministry in a Christ-like way .

Instead all he does is tell people to get closer to Christ and his mother . He could have said that if you follow the example of Pope Francis , quoting the words and deeds of Pope Francis , you would get closer to Christ and his mother .

I would have preferred the preacher to be up front and say : " Look I wish Pope Benedict was still pope , because I don't like what Pope Francis is saying and doing " . And the same goes for you Catholica .

Well to say that would be a lie, and disobedient to the working of the Holy Spirit.  I think that what Francis is doing is great.  It has made a few headaches for me because the liberal media is constantly rushing out mistranslations of what he says (sometimes off the cuff) and with no context.  And because of that some Christians (including Catholics too) are scandalized and the church suffers.  But that is more of the media's fault than his own.  That is really the only thing I don't like, but it really has nothing to do with Pope Francis.  I guess that and that he washed the feet of Muslims on Holy Thursday.  It's hard to help people see the meaning of liturgical actions if the pope sort of undermines them, although for a very humble reason.  But that is really a minor quibble.

As for disappointing you with my thread, I've grown tired of being worried about disappointing people.  If you don't have a problem with Francis, then this thread was not for you.  The point is that even if the pope is really bad (or if someone perceived him as bad) to have faith in God first.  And that is a good reminder even when the pope is really good.  We don't need to copy the actions of any pope, present or future, to draw closer to Jesus.  We've got lots of good witness from the saints already.  That being said, I think we could copy the actions of this pope to get there, but if other people are not liking him yet, that is just defending this pope who we are just beginning to learn about, and popes don't always need to be defended for everything they do.