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What defines a man as a good spiritual leader?

Started by Bonitalynn, Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 01:48:36

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Bonitalynn

As a single Christian woman, I know if I get married again it has to be to someone who truly loves the Lord.
But I sometimes wonder if I'm looking for the impossible, or expecting more than anyone can give?
I keep reading cute little sayings like: 
"True manhood doesn't seek to compromise a woman's purity; it stands up heroically to defend it"
"A man who will lead you closer to God and not to sin, is always worth the wait."
"Marry a man who loves Jesus more than you"
"It's important to marry someone who will be a good leader of the household and who loves and fears God" 
   

I can't say that I have ever known a man that I could consider a good spiritual leader.
I've known men who can talk all the talk about loving, knowing, and serving God, but yet I end up surprised, disillusioned and disappointed when I consistently see attitudes or actions that are blatantly wrong.

Am I wrong to think that "Leader" means that he is suppose to lead me?  Not the other way around?
Maybe I have to high expectations of what the definition means. But in my mind, it should at the very least, mean that I shouldn't always have to be the one bringing up that certain things are not right in God's eyes. And it shouldn't always be on my shoulders to be the 'strong one' that keeps the relationship pure.

So much of what I read about Christian dating, along with posts on social networks that are geared for Christian singles, all talk about not settling for less, but waiting, finding, seeking etc...for that Godly Christian man, that Godly Prince dressed in God's shining armor, who cares about my purity above his own pleasure, that loves God above all else, and who will be a Godly, loving, spiritual leader that I can submit to.
Sounds ideal! But maybe it's too ideal to be real?
Do men like this really exist? How do you recognize one? What defines a man as someone worthy, or at least "good enough" to be a good spiritual leader of a woman?


chosenone

#1
yes they do exist because I am married to one, my son is one, and I know many other men like this as well.

One thing God told me is that we as wives HAVE to make that room for them to lead. We have to withdraw, stop trying to lead ourselves, and stop being controlling, so that our men can take their place as leader.
We have just been on a marriage weekend and one of the couples leading it said the same. She used to get so frustrated because she felt like you that her husband wasn't being the 'spiritual leader,' and so she was taking his place. Once God showed her that she had to take HER place so that her husband could take HIS place that her husband was able to be the man that God wanted Him to be.

My husbands ex was very bossy and controlling, and she never let him be the head. She complained all the time that he wasn't doing what the husband and father should be doing, but never allowed him to even try. On the few occasions he did attempt to be the head, there was BIG trouble, because she didn't like it.
My husband is the most laid back, relaxed, patient, easy going man I have ever met. He wont force his way into that role. God showed me very early in our marriage, that as I stayed in my role as wife and mum, he would be able to grow into His.  Which he has. Its not up to us as ladies to take over that role no matter what we think or want, we need to withdraw and pray for our husbands. 

He will always be laid back, while I am more intense and wanting things to happen, but within that I have to always allow him to take the ultimate responsibility for decisions and for the marriage.

Red Baker

#2
Looking for One Good Man

Divorce and dysfunctional marriages are everywhere. Parents want their children to do better than they did. God created love, marriage, and sex. He knows more about these things than all counselors and sociologists combined.

Fear of the Lord~Pr 31:30

Proven fear of God, love of God, trust in Scripture, delight in the Lord, love of the truth, fellowship with Christ, zeal for worship, complete conversion, hatred of sin and the world, willing to learn and change, confident of eternal life, baptized, lives by faith, loves strong preaching, no fear of peers, honors his parents, loves prayer, holy, despises man's wisdom, spiritually minded, hates false ways, humble, craves instruction, evangelistic, wise, intolerant of sin, etc. -

Virtuous ~Luke 2:52 

Great character, good name, wise, prudent, wonderful person, highly respected, praiseworthy, accomplished, confident, strong.

Gracious ~Prov 22:11

Courteous, charming, pleasing, polite, kind, condescending courtesy, compassionate, agreeable, thoughtful, discreet, gentle.

Diligent ~Prov 22:29 

Hard working, persistent, focused, intense, high-energy, does not procrastinate, fast, thorough, accomplished, consistent, eager. 

Faithful~Prov 20:6

Responsible, committed, principled, dedicated, loyal, respects authority, punctual, constant, disciplined, goal oriented, conscientious, consistent.
 
Leader~Gen 18:19

Authoritative, confident, an example, insistent, expresses opinions, provides direction, decisive, responsible, determined, bold, peacemaker, strong.

Financial ~Prov 24:27 

Assets, good income potential, good credit, organized, solvent, prudent, has a plan, transferable skills, has career options, proper contentment.

Attractive~ Song 5:9-16 

Eyes, hair, lips, teeth, distinct features, hands, skin, shoulders, lean waist, strong legs, athletic, masculine, proportionate, fit.

Father~Phil 2:20-22  His father is virtuous, gracious, spiritual, diligent, faithful, leader, financial, supportive, involved, family oriented, strong, loving.  Apples do not fall too far from the tree!

FriendsProv 13:20

He has several of good reputation, values character, makes friends easily, rejects fools or critical, will forsake them if necessary, friendly, independent, contributes.  You are who you run with generally.

Commutative ~John 15:15 

Talks easily, expresses feelings, explains opinions, verbally affectionate, pursues your thoughts and feelings, good listener.

Wise~ I Sam 18:5,14 

Prudent, discreet, clever, circumspect, cautious, critical, intelligent, analytical, experienced, thorough, careful, common sense. 

Loyal~Matt 19:6 

Believes the best, forgives easily, one-woman man, never flirts, committed, optimistic, consistent, "for poorer," "for worse," "in sickness". 

Sober~Titus 2:6 

Laughs discreetly, doesn't joke or jest, avoids foolishness, hates comedies, introspective, serious, prefers weighty discussions, grave.

Charity~I Cor 13:4-7

Forgiving, trusting, believing, conventional, hoping, kind, longsuffering, forebearing, patient, discreet, humble, modest, generous, gentle.

Discreet~Eph 5:15 

Circumspect, common sense, considerate, good judgement, cautious, prudent, wise, careful, thoughtful, sober, patient, gracious.

Honoring~I Pet 3:7

Knowledgeable of women, considerate, compassionate, kind, merciful, thoughtful, protective, supportive, respectful, flattering.

Cherishing~Eph 5:29

Loving, tender, affectionate, pampering, expressive, touchy, sentimental, romantic, giving, stroking, unselfish, little surprises.

Nourishing~Eph 5:29

Supportive, answers questions, promotes your growth and learning, desires your maturity, a teacher, allows outside pursuits.

Initiative~Prov 20:4

Self-starter, go-getter, motivated, responsive, confident, committed, goal-oriented, bold, hustler, dynamo, competitive.

Intelligent~Eccl 4:13 

Communicates well, analytical, critical, observational, curious, interested in learning new things, common sense, thorough, clever, creative. 

Organized~Eph 5:16

Prompt, neat, clean, efficient, fast, orderly, planning, remembers, thorough, detail conscious, confident, collected, systematic.

Baggage~Eccl 10:1 

Existing children, (sometime could be a bad thing, sometimes a good thing, but needs to be considered) divorce, felonies,  other serious relationships, debts, perverse home situation, past scandals.

Loving~Song 1:2; 2:4

Giving, expressive, passionate, touchy, complimentary, intense, romantic, kind, gentle, affectionate, adoring, possessive, jealous.
Creative
Song 2:8-13  Inventive, original, full of surprises, initiates ideas, appreciates beauty, observational, tires of routine, spontaneous, explorer.

Athletic ~Song 5:14-15 

Enjoys working out, not sports ignorant, competitive, enjoys sweat, coordinated, intense, physical, fit, conditioned, lean.

Temperament~Gen 2:18 

Compatible, well suited for role, rules and controls weaknesses, understands gifts, complementary, risks understood.

Sexual~Heb 13:4 

Understands its honor, its limits, its purpose; its danger; thinks Solomon best typifies great lover, grasps female superiority, unselfish, romantic.

Family~II Tim 1:5 

His family is spiritual, faithful, conservative, loving, gracious, loyal, attractive, intelligent, peaceful, supportive, discreet, diligent, united, close. 

Family Oriented~Prov 17:6 

Likes children, family reunions, grandparents, large dinners, family trees, training future generations, closeness.

MasculineI Sam 16:18 

Strong, fit, athletic, enjoys manly activities, good at physical labor, dresses well, tough, pain tolerant, warrior.

Sensual ~Song 2:4-6 

Passionate, fit, coordinated, clean, appreciates senses, romantic, confident, creative, gentle, verbal, physical, bold, loves beauty.

Gentle~I Thess 2:7

Patient, considerate, kind, thoughtful, forgiving, merciful, tender, compassionate, helpful, slow, cautious, sympathetic, meek.
 
Hospitable~Rom 12:13 

Cordial, generous, gracious, selfless, creative, talkative, warm, joyful, friendly, a servant, expressive, communicative.
 
Observant~I Kings 4:33  Detail conscious, notices small favors, appreciates beauty, analytical, reflective, sensitive, meditative, enjoys roses.

No one will be all these things, yet, if you aim low, you will never hit high, aim high! 

Bonitalynn

Wow Red Baker! That's quite a list! That's a lofty goal for a man to reach, and a lot to expect, but it would be nice.
But the part: "doesn't joke or jest"? and "Hates comedy's"? LOL. Those are two things that I don't need on my list. I like a guy that can laugh and I like comedy's (as long as it's "clean" jokes)

And Choseone, I wholeheartedly agree that it's important for the wife to make room for the man to lead. And yes, it is hard sometimes. I guess that's why it's important to know who you are marrying. 
For the 21 years I was married, I was pretty much quiet on the things my husband did. I did speak up to defend the children when he was being harsh to them without warrant. But for the most part, I prayed and silently watched, while unknowingly building up resentment.
I would attempt to suggest things on occasion, but was always shot down and reminded that HE made the money so HE got to do what he wanted. He was definitely the leader, but he was a selfish dictator. He did not lead our household anywhere good. Yet if you ask him, he'll tell you he's a christian.

Now, as a single, I find myself watching, almost scrutinizing every action, comment,behavior, of the people I date, looking for any little indication that he isn't as "christian" as he should be. I sometimes feel maybe I am being overly scrutinizing and becoming to disillusioned to quickly.
I know nobody is perfect and I'm certainly not perfect and we are all striving to become all that God wants us to be.  I don't want to be a nag, or make a guy feel like he's always wrong, so I don't say things I really want to say every time I want to say them. But after awhile, I eventually will say something. And I try really hard to find ways to say it that aren't accusing or attacking.
But I just get so tired of having to say anything at all. I keep thinking to myself "shouldn't a christian man KNOW this isn't Godly?" 
Obviously, in a marriage relationship there will times when both need to gently remind each other or help each other see a wrong attitude or something, and you work together to keep the relationship with Christ at the center of your marriage.

But when it comes to dating...it's harder.
How do you define the difference between someone who "just made a minor slip/unrealized mistake but his heart for God is sincere and still growing in Christ'  and someone who " is not really committed to following and growing in Christ though he believes he is"?

I don't want to have such high holier than thou standards that no one can could possibly be good enough. I don't want to sabotage what could be a great guy in God's making by over scrutinizing every little thing and misjudging him and miss the big picture. None of us are perfectly Christlike all the time. So determining what just needs a little work and what needs to be thrown away is hard sometimes.




DaveW

#4
I find some of the attributes to be in opposition to each other, esp at the description level.

How can one be "sensual" and "tolerant of pain" at the same time?

Do not some of the attributes lead to what Governor Schwarzenegger called "Gurly Men?"

chosenone

Quote from: Bonitalynn on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 04:59:11
Wow Red Baker! That's quite a list! That's a lofty goal for a man to reach, and a lot to expect, but it would be nice.
But the part: "doesn't joke or jest"? and "Hates comedy's"? LOL. Those are two things that I don't need on my list. I like a guy that can laugh and I like comedy's (as long as it's "clean" jokes)

And Choseone, I wholeheartedly agree that it's important for the wife to make room for the man to lead. And yes, it is hard sometimes. I guess that's why it's important to know who you are marrying. 
For the 21 years I was married, I was pretty much quiet on the things my husband did. I did speak up to defend the children when he was being harsh to them without warrant. But for the most part, I prayed and silently watched, while unknowingly building up resentment.
I would attempt to suggest things on occasion, but was always shot down and reminded that HE made the money so HE got to do what he wanted. He was definitely the leader, but he was a selfish dictator. He did not lead our household anywhere good. Yet if you ask him, he'll tell you he's a christian.

Now, as a single, I find myself watching, almost scrutinizing every action, comment,behavior, of the people I date, looking for any little indication that he isn't as "christian" as he should be. I sometimes feel maybe I am being overly scrutinizing and becoming to disillusioned to quickly.
I know nobody is perfect and I'm certainly not perfect and we are all striving to become all that God wants us to be.  I don't want to be a nag, or make a guy feel like he's always wrong, so I don't say things I really want to say every time I want to say them. But after awhile, I eventually will say something. And I try really hard to find ways to say it that aren't accusing or attacking.
But I just get so tired of having to say anything at all. I keep thinking to myself "shouldn't a christian man KNOW this isn't Godly?" 
Obviously, in a marriage relationship there will times when both need to gently remind each other or help each other see a wrong attitude or something, and you work together to keep the relationship with Christ at the center of your marriage.

But when it comes to dating...it's harder.
How do you define the difference between someone who "just made a minor slip/unrealized mistake but his heart for God is sincere and still growing in Christ'  and someone who " is not really committed to following and growing in Christ though he believes he is"?

I don't want to have such high holier than thou standards that no one can could possibly be good enough. I don't want to sabotage what could be a great guy in God's making by over scrutinizing every little thing and misjudging him and miss the big picture. None of us are perfectly Christlike all the time. So determining what just needs a little work and what needs to be thrown away is hard sometimes.





I think you will just KNOW when the right man comes along. A godly man will just be, well, godly. Not perfect, but his love for God will shine through what he says and what he does and how he relates to others. Must admit that I wasn't going to settle for second best at all this time. In fact God told me not to. I  wrote a list of about 15 things that I wanted in a husband and asked God for them and I got all of them.
They weren't things like rich, tall, must have his own home etc but godly qualities and moral values and integrity.

If you have real doubts about a guy, then that's probably a good indication that he is not right for you. Let peace be your guide as the Bible says. I never had doubts about my husband from the very start, despite the fact that his ex had rejected him and was divorcing him. I think she was mad, but that's another story. 

DaveW

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 05:18:44
If you have real doubts about a guy, then that's probably a good indication that he is not right for you.

Some people have doubts about EVERYONE and some others have doubts about no one.  I do not see that as an accurate guide.

JohnDB

What you are actually saying is that you are not really ready to be married yet.
Sorry.

Your heart isn't in the right place yet.

Marriage is all about giving. Sure, you should follow a good Christian man but being dismissive of all of them is a big red flag.

Get to know and have a heart for others is a problem most singles face and you're right there with the rest of them.

I knew a lot of women just like you when I was single and found out that I didn't want them based upon I wasn't a fan of their hearts.  Older Christian men want more than a pretty face. They want a helper. They want someone who already is helping others.

chosenone

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 05:21:02
Quote from: chosenone on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 05:18:44
If you have real doubts about a guy, then that's probably a good indication that he is not right for you.

Some people have doubts about EVERYONE and some others have doubts about no one.  I do not see that as an accurate guide.

OK, maybe I am different, but I always seemed to just 'know' whether it was right or not. I met a few guys before my husband, and while some of them were nice enough, I just knew that they weren't the one. I knew in a few days that my husband was the one, and never doubted that for a moment.
My son said the same with his wife.  He was contacted by loads of young Christian women(he is very good looking) and yet he just knew this particular girl was 'the one' from the start, and by the third date they were taking about how may children they wanted!  They now have a gorgeous little baby boy and are so happy.

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