What would you do?

[Smithy]

     My husband and I host a Sunday night Bible study for college-age students.   We have a daughter who is a college=age student.  She lives with us, and has been inviting her friends, all male, to the study, and they come regularly.  One of the guys is her new boyfriend.   He is the second boyfriend she has had her entire life.  The problem is they drink and carouse together which she does not find to be too terribly wrong, and she lost her virginity to the new boyfriend.  All of this is distressing, but I realize she is no longer under our authority.  At one point few days ago while I was ill, she and her new boyfriend were here and necking on top of her bed.  I walked in on them and told him to leave.  She was furious and embarrassed.  Those are problems for sure.  The problem I would like input on is that she wants the boyfriend to come back to our study. He is afraid to come back because I laid into them so hard.  He is not a Christian. The boyfriend told the other friends, and they are afraid to come back to the study too.  My daughter says she wants them to come back because she cares about them and wants them to learn and hear the Bible.  She blames me for them not coming back, and if I just said the word, they would all come back.  It seems obvious tg me that her own behavior is the greatest deterrent to them obeying the gospel, but she does not see that.  She is angry with me.  I am angry too, because I do not want her actions to compromise what we are trying to do in our study. She is deluded and thinks its all my fault.  My husband pretty much just wants peace. I don't know for sure what to say next to her.  Ideas?

[Helen]

She is obviously using the Bible study as a social hour/flirting time.  That's not what Bible studies are for.  If she were serious about her faith there is no way she would be behaving the way she does. 

1.  Call off the Bible study unless there are others involved besides her and all her men.  If there are other students involved, the study should be for them.

2.  Tell her that under no uncertain terms is a boy allowed in her bedroom.  This is your house and biblical morality is important to you.

3.  If she cannot abide by that rule, she is welcome to move out.

I know that sounds harsh.  I raised six.  If you don't hold the line, who will?  If you don't take a stand for the truth, who will?

[Smithy]

Helen, I agree with you.  The study is going well for the others.  I indeed read her the riot act on her room being off limits.  She has always been a good girl as far as I know, and now she is sowing her wild oats.  Very sad.  She is being influenced by the world more that the Lord.  I think what I am going to say to her is that she should come if she wants to, but I do not want what we are trying to do to be compromised.  She is unrepentant of her actions.  She does not react like the brothers in IICorinthians when Paul warned them to repent of their ways.  No rush to make things right.  So, I think I will tell her that these guys are not welcome back because she is not proving she is seriously repentant of what she has done.  She is being used by the devil and of course the devil would like for our ministry to fail.  He istrying to destroy it and her.  Thank you for your wisdom.  Anyone else who wants to chime in, ok.

[chosenone]

She is obviously using the Bible study as a social hour/flirting time.  That's not what Bible studies are for.  If she were serious about her faith there is no way she would be behaving the way she does. 

1.  Call off the Bible study unless there are others involved besides her and all her men.  If there are other students involved, the study should be for them.

2.  Tell her that under no uncertain terms is a boy allowed in her bedroom.  This is your house and biblical morality is important to you.

3.  If she cannot abide by that rule, she is welcome to move out.

I know that sounds harsh.  I raised six.  If you don't hold the line, who will?  If you don't take a stand for the truth, who will?

I cant better what Helen has said.

She wants them to learn about God while she is leading one of them into a sin that God says is wrong. Carry on the study for those others who want to come. Not sure why his mates cant come any more just because this one guy has stopped, but that's their decision.

[Smithy]

It is a most irritating and disturbing situation.  One of the guys is interested in learning about baptism. He could certainly get with me or my husband one on one to talk about that.  I don't think he is too interested.

[Smithy]

My husband says we need to forgive her and the boyfriend.  Well, I do.  But she is not too sorry about it all for sure.  Most irritating!

[chosenone]

My husband says we need to forgive her and the boyfriend.  Well, I do.  But she is not too sorry about it all for sure.  Most irritating!

I think that your husband needs to support you in the stand you are making. Sometimes men just want peace at all costs, and that isn't always helpful.   

[Helen]

Smithy, you being ready to forgive, and your daughter being repentant, are two different things, but connected.  Your forgiveness will mean nothing to her except that she 'won' this round.  Be ready to forgive, but it won't mean anything good unless and until she really feels badly about what she has done.

And don't be so quick to blame the devil.  We are all quite good at getting into trouble all by ourselves. 

I'm assuming she is somewhere in the18-21 year old range.  This is the precise age at which she is wrestling with God -- what is right, what is wrong, why, and what she should do about it.  Your best bet is to be quiet, actually.  If she can focus on rebelling against you rather than needing to wrestle with the conscience God gave her (and thus, with Him), then all you will be doing is getting in His way. 

Keep up your Bible study.  If she attends, that's up to her.  But your house rules are your house rules and, again, she is welcome to move out if she cannot abide by them.  In the meantime, let Christ live through you and in you, so that she sees HIS character at every turn -- loving, but firm, sure in God, quiet in heart.

I know it's hard.  My oldest daughter stormed out when she was 18 when I criticized the clothes she was wearing as being too revealing.  I did not hear from her for four years.  Then she was back, and spent two weeks apologizing for things I never knew she had even done!  Is she a Christian now?  No, not really.  Nominally, yes.  But she is married and the mother of three little boys and, because her husband had to travel a ton these past few months in his new job and will need to travel a bit more for a couple of more months, she has moved into our guest house with the boys. 

So she is seeing Christ most certainly in my wonderful husband every day and, I think to a lesser extent, in me.  We are seeing her spirit start to calm a little.  She is in her mid-thirties now and also struggling with medical issues. 

So I can't promise you a happy ending.  That would be foolish.  But these are the children God gave us and we must do our best by them -- and a good part of that best is not pretending wrong is right, bad is good, dark is light. 

[Smithy]

Helen,

The pain you endured those four years must have been excruciating for you.  Our daughter is 21.  I know we make our own choices, but around the same time we started the Bible study, she started pulling tricks.  Satan is trying to get all of us who want to make it which is why I say he is in play here, tempting and enticing us to make ungodly choices and twisting truth.  One of the reasons this Bible study and her friends is an issue is because she wants an excuse to blame me for something else and shift focus off of her.  I do not want to play that game or fall into the trap.  I want to encourage souls who come on Sunday night.  God is developing in me more self control and acceptance of the fact that I must not go after her.  My husband kept saying "Forgive!  Forgive!"  I know that is Biblical, but you are right.  Repentance and forgiveness are connected yet different.  I appreciate the conversation so much.  You sound like a very wise woman, and God has developed that in you through your trials.  I'll post what happens.  Blessings!

[DaveW]

Smithy, you being ready to forgive, and your daughter being repentant, are two different things, but connected.  Your forgiveness will mean nothing to her except that she 'won' this round.  Be ready to forgive, but it won't mean anything good unless and until she really feels badly about what she has done.

There are different levels of forgiveness.

Like an owed monetary debt, the only one who can forgive an issue is the one wronged.  The only wrong she has done to you is to violate your housing rules (no boys in her bedroom).  The sex was against God and you cannot forgive that.

[Smithy]

Indeed...and wasting the spiritual investment we have given her.

[Helen]

Smithy, please don't even think of it as a 'spiritual investment.'  You have taught her and that is what parents are supposed to do.  She is wrestling with God and her conscience and that is absolutely normal for her age.  PLEASE continue caring and praying for her.  Believe it or not, she needs you now more than ever. But just in a different way.  In a world that's changing and scary, she needs to know something is true and steadfast and right.  This is what you can model for her.

[Smithy]

Thank you very much, Helen.  Blessings.

[chosenone]

Many children have times of struggle away from God, but most will come back later on in their lives.

I bought up three children under very difficult circumstances(6 of those years was also as a single mum). My policy with my children was always, carry on loving, carry on praying, and carry on believing that God is in control of their lives. 

[Smithy]

This is a hard thing for me because I cannot relate to it.  I was afraid to drink or sleep with anyone when I was young because I did not want to displease God. My reputation was also very important to me.  I guess this is rare now. I also never  enjoyed the company of people who did not respect God.  It is just the way I was.  Interestingly,  my family was not unified in teaching me Christian principles. As I explore my mind on this, I think this is an important component to my grief and frustration.   I just cannot relate to it.

On the other hand, I understand young people.  I teach high school students, and I am a compassionate and understanding person when it comes to them.   Most of the time, I cut them a lot of slack.  I know young people.

But with my own daughter, I am quite taken aback.  It is so atypical.  One of the things that has been so disturbing is that her first boyfriend was a controlling , manipulative guy seven years older than she.  She did not sleep with him and claimed to be wildly in love with him, dating for a year.  And she slept with the second boyfriend after dating three weeks.  She said she just wanted to feel close to someone.  That is disturbing behaviour for the way this gal has conducted her life. I know intellectually about young adults rebelling and returning.  But since I cannot relate to wanting to act like she is nor are they typical of her conduct and expressed thoughts and beliefs as a rule, it is a bit to wrap my mind around.

Well, it feels good to get it all out.

[chosenone]

Well I think we do need to accept that our children are not us, and they have their own minds, opinions and moral values.