Do men really want to stay married?

[XYZ]

Married Christian men, I could use your help understanding my husband.

I'm in my early thirties and have been married for over a decade. I'm more attractive than I was when we got married and I'm a great mom. I'm a pretty good wife except for the arguing/nagging. Without going into graphic detail, my husband should feel overwhelmingly satisfied.  ;)

That being said, in the past he has been hung up on a woman here and there, to the point it starts affecting the way he treats me. It's like he has resented me because he can't pursue someone else. I understand that men are wired with lust issues as women are wired with gossip issues. I'm having a hard time trusting that he really loves me. And maybe he's not hung up on a certain woman right now, but give it six months. This worry eats away at me.

How can a man desire something he can't have, and still be happy with a woman he's been with for so long? How can a man masturbate to other women, and still find pleasure hanging out with his wife in the living room on weeknights? I'll talk to him and he won't hear me because his mind is elsewhere. I can't help but wonder if he's lusting after a woman and I'm in the way. A part of me wants to throw in the towel because I'm hurt, but then again, wouldn't I be in the same spot with any other man? Do they all get bored? Plus I have a kids, and if anyone's going to break up the family, it's not going to be me.

Thanks for your help men! 

[DaveW]

First off - let me say WELCOME to the forums!

Second off - this is the Men's forum and women are NOT supposed to post in it (nor are men allowed to post in the women's forum)

So I ask the mods to move this to the marriage forum.  The question is a good one.

So let me ask you: Are you both believers?  Are you in a good church home?

So I will address some of your statements here.

Without going into graphic detail, my husband should feel overwhelmingly satisfied.  ;)

How can a man masturbate to other women, and still find pleasure hanging out with his wife in the living room on weeknights?

Men and women often are wired VERY DIFFERENTLY when it comes to sex. As to the big M, it gives a lot of pleasure for a relatively little amount of effort and complication. That is for both men and women. But for men it is often ONLY about the physical pleasure; or physical pleasure and emotional closeness are 2 unconnected things. For most women it HAS to involve a relationship to be ultimately satisfying.  Physical pleasure and relationship are inseparably linked.

Because we are so differently wired; not only men to women but individual to individual; we should not assume our spouse is satisfied or should be satisfied from our point of view.  They have to agree they are satisfied and that goes both ways.

As to him getting "hung up" on a woman here and there; are these actual physical people he knows or are they images on the internet?

I would submit that BOTH of you need good biblical marriage counseling.  He (at least from your perspective) is not honoring his marriage vows "Keep thee only unto her for as long as ye both shall live..."

[TJW]

He (at least from your perspective) is not honoring his marriage vows "Keep thee only unto her for as long as ye both shall live..."

From my perspective, also, he isn't.

I think we may all be "wired" the same, but it is a CHOICE how we TRAIN ourselves to respond to our natural inclinations.  We can "place" our desires on any woman we choose. 

When I look at other women, I can appreciate their beauty, think they are pretty, etc.  but I have trained myself not to let my mind wander into lustful imaginations about them.

To me, my wife is the only woman in the world.  I have never as much as uttered one word in her presence about another woman.  The only woman I have ever said was beautiful (other than her) is our daughter.  (And, she is the
spittin' image of my wife)

I don't use porn but I do masturbate.  This is because it is a choice of lesser evils.  My wife has little interest in sex and I have strong drives.  If I keep myself satisfied, I have far less tendency to look at other women and I know this
is better for my marriage in the long run.  If I let myself go for long periods, my eyes begin to wander and I don't want this.

I am 100%, completely happy that my wife is going to be the only woman I ever have sex with for the rest of my life.
I wish it could be more often but I'm not looking outside my marriage, either in thought or in deed.  If our sex was more frequent I wouldn't masturbate at all.

I'm a pretty good wife except for the arguing/nagging.

My wife and I don't argue much at all.  We are pretty compatible, have similar beliefs in Christ and His way, what's right and what's wrong, etc.  She is a "nag", though. And she can have a sharply condescending tone with it sometimes which makes me feel disrespected and unwanted.

[XYZ]

Yes, we're both believers and we have a great church home. In the past, he's never been physical with anyone except me, but several years ago he contemplated cheating and then leaving us if it worked out. I was shocked and our marriage barely survived. Since then, I've realized that these "crushes" he's had are potent to our marriage. All those memories I have with him are tainted now. Did he really love me back then? Can I measure up? When I do the math, the other girl wins since I can never be mysterious or new again. He learned his lesson, but I've never fully recovered.

Just wondering if every marriage is a joke, or if he can still love me and desire other women at the same time.

Thanks for the replies!

[chosenone]

XYZ
Are these crushes/lusts always with real women? Or are they with women he sees on porn? Does he watch porn and masturbate as well? How do you know he does this, does he tell you? DO you know which women he is lusting after?

No every marriage isn't a joke.

From my own experience, men will notice other women, just as we all notice all sorts of people, but they dont have to stare at them  or fantasise about them. If they are then they need to stop. If he is doing this, then he is committing adultery in his mind. I find this very concerning, especially what he did before wanting to have an affair and maybe leave you. Yes these crushes are bad and very damaging for you and the marriage, and he needs to stop.

Porn is no no as far as I am concerned, and masturbation only in cases such as TJW's where the wife refuses to have sex very often (although its not right to deprive your spouse of sex either ).

Do you tell him how painful this all is for you? Does he agree that what he is doing is wrong?

I would think you may benefit from good marriage counselling, where hopefully he can be enabled to see how painful this is for you, and how bad it is for the marriage.

[TJW]

Can I measure up? When I do the math, the other girl wins since I can never be mysterious or new again. He learned his lesson, but I've never fully recovered.

I don't know how to help you with this.  If I did, I would help myself by the same measure.   I don't think my wife has ever cheated, but I believe that the reason she doesn't want sex is that she was far more experienced than me before marriage.  I can't "measure up" because I'm now an old geezer fighting diabetes and heart disease. 

I hope someone here can help.  I also hope that through counseling or other activity, your husband could "get it" and help to rebuild your security and self-esteem.

[johndoo]

Did you have an experience with marriage counseling before?
Did it help?
To answer one of your questions, men in general are able to compartmentalize their lives easier than women. One thing doesn't necessarily affect the other.

[epiphanius]

Yes, we're both believers and we have a great church home.

That's important! A "great church home" is usually a great place to start when it comes to healing a troubled marriage.  Make an appointment to see your pastor about this as soon as possible.

I'm a pretty good wife except for the arguing/nagging.

XY, you may be onto something right here--nagging is a HUGE sexual turn-off for many men.

If my wife is nagging me, it means she's reminding me that she wants something done (or not done), and:

• I've heard it before (and)
• I don't agree that it needs to be done (or not done) (or)
• I don't think I should (always) be the one to do it (or)
• I just don't like doing it that way
• etc.

The main thing, though, is that it's important for a man to "feel like a man," and nagging does just the opposite--you might say it's the most counter-productive of all human activities.

Now, I'm *not* saying that your husband is right, or that he *isn't* inconsiderate, but if you ever want him to change, this is one way of making sure he DOESN'T!

Without going into graphic detail, my husband should feel overwhelmingly satisfied.  ;)

Seriously, XY, doesn't this sound just a *little* self-centered?

That being said, in the past he has been hung up on a woman here and there, to the point it starts affecting the way he treats me. It's like he has resented me because he can't pursue someone else.

The problem here is that relationships don't come naturally to most men, the way they do to most women.  Many men have a problem with the "grass is greener" syndrome.

I'm having a hard time trusting that he really loves me. And maybe he's not hung up on a certain woman right now, but give it six months. This worry eats away at me.

Just as men tend to worry, "could I have done better?", so women tend to worry, "does he really love me?"  This is one area where faith can be such a great help, because I can always be confident that God loves me.  Once this fundamental need is met, I am then free to love without worrying whether or not I am loved.

Just wondering ... if he can still love me and desire other women at the same time.

XY, our brother, johndoo, has a very good answer here:

To answer one of your questions, men in general are able to compartmentalize their lives easier than women. One thing doesn't necessarily affect the other.

Just wondering if every marriage is a joke ...

Now, that's where faith comes in ...

[TJW]

nagging does just the opposite--you might say it's the most counter-productive of all human activities.

Amen. 

[chosenone]

Yes, we're both believers and we have a great church home.

That's important! A "great church home" is usually a great place to start when it comes to healing a troubled marriage.  Make an appointment to see your pastor about this as soon as possible.

I'm a pretty good wife except for the arguing/nagging.

XY, you may be onto something right here--nagging is a HUGE sexual turn-off for many men.

If my wife is nagging me, it means she's reminding me that she wants something done (or not done), and:

• I've heard it before (and)
• I don't agree that it needs to be done (or not done) (or)
• I don't think I should (always) be the one to do it (or)
• I just don't like doing it that way
• etc.

The main thing, though, is that it's important for a man to "feel like a man," and nagging does just the opposite--you might say it's the most counter-productive of all human activities.

Now, I'm *not* saying that your husband is right, or that he *isn't* inconsiderate, but if you ever want him to change, this is one way of making sure he DOESN'T!

Without going into graphic detail, my husband should feel overwhelmingly satisfied.  ;)

Seriously, XY, doesn't this sound just a *little* self-centered?

That being said, in the past he has been hung up on a woman here and there, to the point it starts affecting the way he treats me. It's like he has resented me because he can't pursue someone else.

The problem here is that relationships don't come naturally to most men, the way they do to most women.  Many men have a problem with the "grass is greener" syndrome.

I'm having a hard time trusting that he really loves me. And maybe he's not hung up on a certain woman right now, but give it six months. This worry eats away at me.

Just as men tend to worry, "could I have done better?", so women tend to worry, "does he really love me?"  This is one area where faith can be such a great help, because I can always be confident that God loves me.  Once this fundamental need is met, I am then free to love without worrying whether or not I am loved.

Just wondering ... if he can still love me and desire other women at the same time.

XY, our brother, johndoo, has a very good answer here:

To answer one of your questions, men in general are able to compartmentalize their lives easier than women. One thing doesn't necessarily affect the other.

Just wondering if every marriage is a joke ...

Now, that's where faith comes in ...

Cant quite agree with some things you have said here.

I dont believe that that many men struggle with the ''greener grass syndrome', some do of course.
Also you said that men worry 'could I have done better.' Really? If that's true then how sad. I always thought that was more of a women's thing than a mans, but to allow ourselves to even think that, man or women, is so damaging for the marriage.  Discontent with our spouse is deadly for a marriage.
Maybe I just know a lot of good men, but most of them seem more than happy with their wives and marriages.

[Pennie]

Yes, we're both believers and we have a great church home.

That's important! A "great church home" is usually a great place to start when it comes to healing a troubled marriage.  Make an appointment to see your pastor about this as soon as possible.

I'm a pretty good wife except for the arguing/nagging.

XY, you may be onto something right here--nagging is a HUGE sexual turn-off for many men.

If my wife is nagging me, it means she's reminding me that she wants something done (or not done), and:

• I've heard it before (and)
• I don't agree that it needs to be done (or not done) (or)
• I don't think I should (always) be the one to do it (or)
• I just don't like doing it that way
• etc.

The main thing, though, is that it's important for a man to "feel like a man," and nagging does just the opposite--you might say it's the most counter-productive of all human activities.

Now, I'm *not* saying that your husband is right, or that he *isn't* inconsiderate, but if you ever want him to change, this is one way of making sure he DOESN'T!

Without going into graphic detail, my husband should feel overwhelmingly satisfied.  ;)

Seriously, XY, doesn't this sound just a *little* self-centered?

That being said, in the past he has been hung up on a woman here and there, to the point it starts affecting the way he treats me. It's like he has resented me because he can't pursue someone else.

The problem here is that relationships don't come naturally to most men, the way they do to most women.  Many men have a problem with the "grass is greener" syndrome.

I'm having a hard time trusting that he really loves me. And maybe he's not hung up on a certain woman right now, but give it six months. This worry eats away at me.

Just as men tend to worry, "could I have done better?", so women tend to worry, "does he really love me?"  This is one area where faith can be such a great help, because I can always be confident that God loves me.  Once this fundamental need is met, I am then free to love without worrying whether or not I am loved.

Just wondering ... if he can still love me and desire other women at the same time.

XY, our brother, johndoo, has a very good answer here:

To answer one of your questions, men in general are able to compartmentalize their lives easier than women. One thing doesn't necessarily affect the other.

Just wondering if every marriage is a joke ...

Now, that's where faith comes in ...

Cant quite agree with some things you have said here.

I dont believe that that many men struggle with the ''greener grass syndrome', some do of course.
Also you said that men worry 'could I have done better.' Really? If that's true then how sad. I always thought that was more of a women's thing than a mans, but to allow ourselves to even think that, man or women, is so damaging for the marriage.  Discontent with our spouse is deadly for a marriage.
Maybe I just know a lot of good men, but most of them seem more than happy with their wives and marriages.

Have to agree with chosenone...including the part about XYZ making a good point about the arguing/nagging.
I want to add that the WAY you argue is key.
I'm assuming you know that generalities ("You always do this or that"), silent treatment ("You mean nothing to me"), voices raised in anger, name-calling, condescending tone as someone above mentioned, etc are very harmful.
And long after an argument is over, those harmful things can continue to eat away at one's self-confidence, and their confidence in the relationship....not to mention their physical desire for their spouse. Who wants to snuggle with someone whose harmful words or actions are still ringing in their ears? And who can feel desirable and sexy when they're emotionally hurt?
You're not the only one who feels that way. He feels that way, too.

You may think he should be "overwhelmingly satisfied", but is he emotionally satisfied?
Men need that emotional connection to their spouse just as much as women do. They just express it differently than we do.

Inside, they need the same things we do; love, reassurance, knowing that their wife is not just listening to them but really hearing and understanding them, the feeling of being special, treasured, desired, etc.....and because they're men, admiring and respecting them also goes a long way.

Internet/magazine pictures are just that for most men; pictures. Men love to look at women.
That will never change.
Here and there, it shouldn't be an issue. That's normal.
If it's an obsession, however, he's got a problem.
I read an article about internet porn once that said it actually eventually makes men impotent with a real live woman, because they become addicted to the virtual bombardment of variety (not to mention photo-shopped perfection of all that variety), and they start to need that to feel aroused. It's awful, really.
They have to go through a lot to literally re-program their brain in order to be normal again. It's like detox.
If that's what you're dealing with, I'm so sorry. I pray that's not the case..but even if it is, there is hope, if he wants to change.

Nagging is a marriage killer. Period.
Most men are not going to feel physically attracted to someone who treats them like an irresponsible little boy who needs constant supervision and correction. You don't want to be a mother-figure to your husband, and he doesn't want that, either. Think about it. Eew.
If nagging is compulsive for you, make yourself think about that before you speak. The "eew" factor will help you stop. And it may just help your whole relationship more than you know.

I don't mean to put blame on you. He's not blameless. I just kind of focused on the arguing/nagging comment because I feel strongly about that, and that alone could be creating some of the problems, and/or making them worse....and I think it's usually best to work on yourself first; being the best you can be, then go from there.
(I say that because I've had to work on myself a LOT lol...and I've found over the years that if I work on improving the way I do & say things, my husband does the same! Maybe other men are not like that?  but it's worth a try, and even if he doesn't improve along with you, you haven't lost a thing; you've only improved yourself!)

One thing that concerns me is people mentioning marriage counseling.
That can be a wonderful thing, or a horrible thing, depending on the counselor.
If you choose that route, and you really need to bring a third party into things, please choose very carefully.

I know it's old advice, but really, truly, studying the Bible together can only help your marriage.
Not talking about going to church; if you do that, great, but I'm talking about sitting down together after the kids are in bed and studying and discussing the Bible. Pick any book, chapter, verse that interests you in the moment. Look it up on the internet. See what other people say about it. Read it for yourself. Discuss it with each other. Find where the same topic or words are used in a different book in the Bible--that part can be really fun, and fascinating. Before you do this, pray together.
That old thing that people used to say about a husband and wife who move closer to God, move closer to each other? It's really true.
Sorry if that sounds preachy. I sincerely wish you the best.

[TJW]

One thing that concerns me is people mentioning marriage counseling.
That can be a wonderful thing, or a horrible thing, depending on the counselor.

There will be a lot of advice to get a "Christian" counselor.  I think it's wonderful to have a counselor who is also a Christian, that is, a QUALIFIED COUNSELOR who has faith in Christ.  But I would advise you to choose
your counselor based on his/her qualifications, and not on whether he/she is a Christian.

When my former wife and I needed a premarital counselor, we went to a guy who came and spoke in our church.  He was basically a pastor who felt "called" to counseling.  Although he had very good bible knowledge, he had not been trained in clinical psychology, his degree was divinity.  He led us to a huge set of mistakes, one of which was "you won't solve your problems until you go ahead and get married".

We didn't figure out that he was not a good counselor until it was too late.

Internet/magazine pictures are just that for most men; pictures. Men love to look at women.

Pornography carries scenarios in which the woman is  PLEASED by the man, ADMIRES the man, DESIRES the man.  It's a fantasy, like Superman, Rambo, Walker, Texas Ranger, in which the man is invincible when faced with incredulous odds.

Men who are nagged will therefore be more vulnerable to porn than those who are admired and respected by their wives.  This is not to say that it's their wife's  "fault" that they engage in it.  It's their CHOICE.

And, yes, it is quite insidious in its effect upon them.  Their sexual responses can become trained to require porn in higher and higher doses, much like drug addiction, in order to gain release.  They can, over time, become completely impotent with their wives.

It also creates the impotence through making the men feel inferior to the men in the porn.

[chosenone]

Pennie, you said

Internet/magazine pictures are just that for most men; pictures. Men love to look at women.
That will never change.
Here and there, it shouldn't be an issue. That's normal.
..........................
Are you saying that its ok for someone to look at porn as long as its not don't very often? That its not an issue if its not an addiction?

if so then I cant agree. Its never ok for any of us to look at porn, whether once a month or every day.

[Pennie]

Pennie, you said

Internet/magazine pictures are just that for most men; pictures. Men love to look at women.
That will never change.
Here and there, it shouldn't be an issue. That's normal.
..........................
Are you saying that its ok for someone to look at porn as long as its not don't very often? That its not an issue if its not an addiction?

if so then I cant agree. Its never ok for any of us to look at porn, whether once a month or every day.

I'm talking about pictures of beautiful women. Not porn.
Men are drawn to female beauty. My husband is.
He is very respectful of women, and he thinks, just like I do, that porn degrades women.
He says that women are one of God's great creations.

In our home office, we both have our own desk and computer, and we can see what's on each others' screens.
If he's reading an article and comes across a picture of a pretty woman, he'll tell me to look over here, and ask me what I think.

He's one of those men who women naturally like. Old and young, wherever we go, they all wind up talking to him, and flirting with him. Innocent flirting, because he's so charismatic, and a real southern gentleman.
Older women really love him...it's like moths to a flame. 

In 22 years, he's never given me any cause for suspicion, jealousy, or even concern.

I was thinking of him when I wrote that.

[Pennie]

I think my mistake was that I should have separated the two different ideas; normal behavior vs obsessive, degrading behavior.
Sorry for the confusion.

What I should have said was, even if you're talking about normal pictures of pretty women, if there's obsession and fantasizing, there's a problem.

Sexual pictures and videos? I would have a problem with that to begin with. That's inexcusable in my book.

[chosenone]

I think my mistake was that I should have separated the two different ideas; normal behavior vs obsessive, degrading behavior.
Sorry for the confusion.

What I should have said was, even if you're talking about normal pictures of pretty women, if there's obsession and fantasizing, there's a problem.

Sexual pictures and videos? I would have a problem with that to begin with. That's inexcusable in my book.

Thanks for clarifying that Pennie.   
I do agree with you about porn, its so damaging for those who look at it and for their spouses and families. I know two marriages that have ended because of the porn use by the husband.

My husband will of course notice an attractive person, as we all do, but he wont stare or make anything of it, just as I wont stare at an attractive guy.If he sees a lady on tv, maybe on an advert for example, who isnt wearing too much, he will always close his eyes. He did that before I met him so its not of my doing, but I do love him for it and it makes me feel respected and loved. None of us can avoid what is all around us, but we can help what we do about it.   

Does it bother you that women flirt? I always see flirting as something that is a no no. I wouldnt dream of flirting with a guy if I and/or he were married.  Of course you cant help it if people flirt with you can you, its just how you deal with it isn't it.

[TonkaTim]

I'm talking about pictures of beautiful women.
Men are drawn to female beauty. My husband is.
He is very respectful of women, and he thinks, just like I do,
He says that women are one of God's great creations.

Pennie, When I was reading your post it made me think of a beautiful young lady and a very special performance of pure of elegance.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/general-discussion-forum/think-on-these-things/msg1054882245/#msg1054882245
(please click to view)

[Pennie]

Does it bother you that women flirt? I always see flirting as something that is a no no. I wouldnt dream of flirting with a guy if I and/or he were married.  Of course you cant help it if people flirt with you can you, its just how you deal with it isn't it.

Only one time in 22 years have I ever seen a woman flirt inappropriately with my husband. And yeah, it bothered me...but once he realized what she was doing, he cut her off quick.
I have 100% trust in his faithfulness, and he feels the same about me. I think we're blessed.

The innocent flirting I was talking about is truly innocent. Old women take an immediate shine to my husband. They always want to talk to him. But the most female attention he gets is from little baby girls. For some reason, they adore him on sight.
It's the cutest thing to watch. He has a soft baritone voice, and the moment they hear it, they turn their heads and look for him. He has kind of a Grizzly Adams look, with blue eyes and a sweet smile, and the little baby girls just stare, bat their eyes, smile, coo, and giggle.
The other day we were in a line at the grocery store, and a little baby girl was in a baby seat on her mother's shopping cart, flirting up a storm with my husband (we were behind them in line) while her mother was unloading the cart. It was so funny.

[Pennie]

I'm talking about pictures of beautiful women.
Men are drawn to female beauty. My husband is.
He is very respectful of women, and he thinks, just like I do,
He says that women are one of God's great creations.

Pennie, When I was reading your post it made me think of a beautiful young lady and a very special performance of pure of elegance.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/general-discussion-forum/think-on-these-things/msg1054882245/#msg1054882245
(please click to view)

Thank you! That was beautiful.

[chosenone]

Does it bother you that women flirt? I always see flirting as something that is a no no. I wouldnt dream of flirting with a guy if I and/or he were married.  Of course you cant help it if people flirt with you can you, its just how you deal with it isn't it.

Only one time in 22 years have I ever seen a woman flirt inappropriately with my husband. And yeah, it bothered me...but once he realized what she was doing, he cut her off quick.
I have 100% trust in his faithfulness, and he feels the same about me. I think we're blessed.

The innocent flirting I was talking about is truly innocent. Old women take an immediate shine to my husband. They always want to talk to him. But the most female attention he gets is from little baby girls. For some reason, they adore him on sight.
It's the cutest thing to watch. He has a soft baritone voice, and the moment they hear it, they turn their heads and look for him. He has kind of a Grizzly Adams look, with blue eyes and a sweet smile, and the little baby girls just stare, bat their eyes, smile, coo, and giggle.
The other day we were in a line at the grocery store, and a little baby girl was in a baby seat on her mother's shopping cart, flirting up a storm with my husband (we were behind them in line) while her mother was unloading the cart. It was so funny.

Oh Ok Pennie, I think we have a different definition of flirting. I couldnt describe a baby as flirting because she wouldnt know how to. I see flirting as having wrong undertones(as in that one case you describe). Thanks.

[brokenveteran]

How can a man desire something he can't have, and still be happy with a woman he's been with for so long?

I once read that cheating spouses get 80-90% of their emotional needs met with their spouse and thrill seek the other 10-20%. Cheating spouses often do not have intent to leave the marriage because a majority of their needs are met in the stable relationship. That was certainly the case for me, although it was a woman that sought the thrill of affairs. In my opinion, this is not limited to men.

[chosenone]

How can a man desire something he can't have, and still be happy with a woman he's been with for so long?

I once read that cheating spouses get 80-90% of their emotional needs met with their spouse and thrill seek the other 10-20%. Cheating spouses often do not have intent to leave the marriage because a majority of their needs are met in the stable relationship. That was certainly the case for me, although it was a woman that sought the thrill of affairs. In my opinion, this is not limited to men.

Yes the numbers of women cheating is nearly as many as men now, in fact if both work, the percentage is about the same. Both my brothers wives cheated, the second one with 4 different men. He is the nicest man you could want as well, and a brilliant and caring father. I know several women personally who cheated on their husbands. Its very sad.