SwordMaster(Birth Control) vs Tolasonn(No Birth Control)

[Tolasonn]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

[SwordMaster]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

FIRST, we will deal with your claim that God told you that birth control is evil.

     * Exactly how did God tell you this? Was it a feeling? Was it an audible voice? What?
     * EVERY scholar/theologian/pastor/layman Christian person who is in the truth and worth their weight in salt, acknowledges the BASIC Biblical principle that if God does not address something or say something in the Scriptures, then He didn't touch the subject for good reason. There is absolutely NO Scriptural presedence for making the claim that God states birth control is a sin and evil.

Such holdings originate from man...

Matthew 15:8-9
"'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me; in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

You cling to a man-made doctrine masquerading as the voice of God...sorry, that does not amount to anything here.

SECOND, sorry...the burden of proof for your claim falls upon you.

If you cannot provide supporting SCRIPTURAL material for your claim, then it is a dead claim and you have lost the argument already.

So, where is your Scriptural evidence where God says that birth control is sin and evil???
There are a ton of people waiting for your answer...

Blessings!

[Tolasonn]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

FIRST, we will deal with your claim that God told you that birth control is evil.

   

Excellent. You prove he did not tell me that.

[Tolasonn]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

SECOND, sorry...the burden of proof for your claim falls upon you.

Not so.  you accepted this debate with no rules or stipulations.

[Tolasonn]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

If you cannot provide supporting SCRIPTURAL material for your claim, then it is a dead claim and you have lost the argument already.

Not so. All I have to do is defeat you in this debate.

[Tolasonn]

You have not even posted your argument.

That is because when you do...
you know I will trap you in a lie in your own doctrine.

[Tolasonn]

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

[SwordMaster]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

FIRST, we will deal with your claim that God told you that birth control is evil.

   

Excellent. You prove he did not tell me that.

Sure...

1.  The indwelling Spirit of God ONLY remains within those who are walking in covenant relationship with God.
2.  That means that you have repented of your past sins, have asked for God to apply the atonement to your life and have been washed clean by the blood of Christ, that you have receive water baptism (full immersion) which is entrance into the New Covenant, and are currently walking in obedience to God in obeying Christ's commandment to love on people whenever you see a need and have the means to fill it.
3.  The indwelling Spirit is a gift afforded ONLY to those walking in that covenant relationship with God (abiding in Christ), and if you cease from abiding in Christ, then you also cease from abiding in the covenant.
4.  According to . . .
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person can not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

therefore, unless one is walking according to the above, then he does not have the spirit of God dwelling within him in order to be able to understand the things of God.

5.  Since I cannot say that you are not abiding in Christ at this moment, because I do not know you, we have to go by your doctrinal stance.
6.  Therefore, based upon your doctrine, you do not have the Spirit indwelling you to be able to understand the Scriptures...therefore God did not tell you what you claim, because you are not able to hear His voice.

The voice you heard is that of anti-christ...or perhaps your own fleshly voice, but it was not God's voice, no matter what you choose to believe.

Again, how do we come to this conclusion? Because God does not address birth control anywhere in the Scriptures, that is a doctrine of men given as a commandment of God - and therefore, it is anti-christian doctrine...given through the spirit of anti-christ.

God will NEVER contradict His word...that is a basic tenet of Biblical Hermeneutics, which I see no application thereof in your posts.

[SwordMaster]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

SECOND, sorry...the burden of proof for your claim falls upon you.

Not so.  you accepted this debate with no rules or stipulations.

That is not a rule, and you said nothing of stipulations. Quite practicing dark tactics and give your Scriptural support for your false claim...otherwise you lose the debate by default.

Here's a little hint for you...you cannot have a Biblical/Scriptural debate when you have NO Biblical or Scriptural support for your claim, and since YOU started this debate, the burden of Proof for your starting argument REQUIRES Scriptural support.

Otherwise, YOU demonstrate that your argument is NOT based in Scripture, and therefore there can be no debate.

I do not care to debate doctrines instituted by sinful men...no matter who they claim to be.

[Tolasonn]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

FIRST, we will deal with your claim that God told you that birth control is evil.

   

Excellent. You prove he did not tell me that.

Sure...

1.  The indwelling Spirit of God ONLY remains within those who are walking in covenant relationship with God.
2.  That means that you have repented of your past sins, have asked for God to apply the atonement to your life and have been washed clean by the blood of Christ, that you have receive water baptism (full immersion) which is entrance into the New Covenant, and are currently walking in obedience to God in obeying Christ's commandment to love on people whenever you see a need and have the means to fill it.
3.  The indwelling Spirit is a gift afforded ONLY to those walking in that covenant relationship with God (abiding in Christ), and if you cease from abiding in Christ, then you also cease from abiding in the covenant.
4.  According to . . .
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person can not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

therefore, unless one is walking according to the above, then he does not have the spirit of God dwelling within him in order to be able to understand the things of God.

5.  Since I cannot say that you are not abiding in Christ at this moment, because I do not know you, we have to go by your doctrinal stance.
6.  Therefore, based upon your doctrine, you do not have the Spirit indwelling you to be able to understand the Scriptures...therefore God did not tell you what you claim, because you are not able to hear His voice.

The voice you heard is that of anti-christ...or perhaps your own fleshly voice, but it was not God's voice, no matter what you choose to believe.

Again, how do we come to this conclusion? Because God does not address birth control anywhere in the Scriptures, that is a doctrine of men given as a commandment of God - and therefore, it is anti-christian doctrine...given through the spirit of anti-christ.

God will NEVER contradict His word...that is a basic tenet of Biblical Hermeneutics, which I see no application thereof in your posts.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

[SwordMaster]

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

You have not even posted your argument.
That is because when you do...
you know I will trap you in a lie in your own doctrine.

Normally I would leave you to wallow in your own mire, but I am curious, so...I will do this one time...

First fact - there is no Scripture in the Bible that states what you claim. In fact, you do not even claim that the Bible does say what you claim...you claim that "God" told you this.

Second fact - you have no way to vindicate your claim. Saying "God told me" without Scripture to back it up (because, again, God does not contradict Himself - EVER!) doesn't cut it.

Third fact - contrary to videos and "bible studies" by catholic sources, sex is NOT for the sole purpose of procreation, but its PRIMARY function is that of bonding between a man and his wife, to bring them closer together, to become one...

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

They do not become one flesh by marriage, but through sexual union, which is a spiritual word picture demonstrating the kind of intimate relationship God seeks with those who come to Him.

Fourth fact - God commands us to be good stewards and to provide for our families...

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If I can only financially handle three children, and I make myself responsible for more than I can handle, then I Tim. 5:8 applies to me. Now, If I am a millionaire, and I WANT 20 kids and my wife is physically up to that task...then great. However, to bring more children into this world than I can financially care for, is gross stupidity on my part, and is an affront to the purpose of God.

Fifth fact - contrary to certain catholic teachings that I have heard, birth control is NOT abortion - that is plain idiotic, and hopefully not where you are coming from.

True, God told Adam and Eve and Noah and his family to "be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it," but that was for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled now for at least a thousand years. God does not expect us to continue to populate the earth until all natural resources are gone, as your stance leads to. The verb in the Hebrew for "increase" is saras, which means "to swarm" and "to breed abundantly," and that has been accomplished.



Now, therefore, open your mouth and demonstrate how you are going to "trap" me in my own doctrine.

[SwordMaster]

God told me,

BIRTH CONTROL

is a sin and it is evil.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

FIRST, we will deal with your claim that God told you that birth control is evil.

   

Excellent. You prove he did not tell me that.

Sure...

1.  The indwelling Spirit of God ONLY remains within those who are walking in covenant relationship with God.
2.  That means that you have repented of your past sins, have asked for God to apply the atonement to your life and have been washed clean by the blood of Christ, that you have receive water baptism (full immersion) which is entrance into the New Covenant, and are currently walking in obedience to God in obeying Christ's commandment to love on people whenever you see a need and have the means to fill it.
3.  The indwelling Spirit is a gift afforded ONLY to those walking in that covenant relationship with God (abiding in Christ), and if you cease from abiding in Christ, then you also cease from abiding in the covenant.
4.  According to . . .
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person can not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

therefore, unless one is walking according to the above, then he does not have the spirit of God dwelling within him in order to be able to understand the things of God.

5.  Since I cannot say that you are not abiding in Christ at this moment, because I do not know you, we have to go by your doctrinal stance.
6.  Therefore, based upon your doctrine, you do not have the Spirit indwelling you to be able to understand the Scriptures...therefore God did not tell you what you claim, because you are not able to hear His voice.

The voice you heard is that of anti-christ...or perhaps your own fleshly voice, but it was not God's voice, no matter what you choose to believe.

Again, how do we come to this conclusion? Because God does not address birth control anywhere in the Scriptures, that is a doctrine of men given as a commandment of God - and therefore, it is anti-christian doctrine...given through the spirit of anti-christ.

God will NEVER contradict His word...that is a basic tenet of Biblical Hermeneutics, which I see no application thereof in your posts.

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

I just did. "Funny" how you so easily disregard the above...

Not really.

[Tolasonn]

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

You have not even posted your argument.
That is because when you do...
you know I will trap you in a lie in your own doctrine.

Normally I would leave you to wallow in your own mire, but I am curious, so...I will do this one time...

First fact - there is no Scripture in the Bible that states what you claim. In fact, you do not even claim that the Bible does say what you claim...you claim that "God" told you this.

Second fact - you have no way to vindicate your claim. Saying "God told me" without Scripture to back it up (because, again, God does not contradict Himself - EVER!) doesn't cut it.

Third fact - contrary to videos and "bible studies" by catholic sources, sex is NOT for the sole purpose of procreation, but its PRIMARY function is that of bonding between a man and his wife, to bring them closer together, to become one...

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

They do not become one flesh by marriage, but through sexual union, which is a spiritual word picture demonstrating the kind of intimate relationship God seeks with those who come to Him.

Fourth fact - God commands us to be good stewards and to provide for our families...

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If I can only financially handle three children, and I make myself responsible for more than I can handle, then I Tim. 5:8 applies to me. Now, If I am a millionaire, and I WANT 20 kids and my wife is physically up to that task...then great. However, to bring more children into this world than I can financially care for, is gross stupidity on my part, and is an affront to the purpose of God.

Fifth fact - contrary to certain catholic teachings that I have heard, birth control is NOT abortion - that is plain idiotic, and hopefully not where you are coming from.

True, God told Adam and Eve and Noah and his family to "be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it," but that was for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled now for at least a thousand years. God does not expect us to continue to populate the earth until all natural resources are gone, as your stance leads to. The verb in the Hebrew for "increase" is saras, which means "to swarm" and "to breed abundantly," and that has been accomplished.



Now, therefore, open your mouth and demonstrate how you are going to "trap" me in my own doctrine.

Post your scriptural proof that God condones birth control.

[Tolasonn]

Here is one verse that
I will post as my scriptural proof that birth control is sin.

Colossians, Chapter 3, 17:    And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

[Tolasonn]

I have many many many more but I will let you refute them one by one.

[SwordMaster]

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

You have not even posted your argument.
That is because when you do...
you know I will trap you in a lie in your own doctrine.

Normally I would leave you to wallow in your own mire, but I am curious, so...I will do this one time...

First fact - there is no Scripture in the Bible that states what you claim. In fact, you do not even claim that the Bible does say what you claim...you claim that "God" told you this.

Second fact - you have no way to vindicate your claim. Saying "God told me" without Scripture to back it up (because, again, God does not contradict Himself - EVER!) doesn't cut it.

Third fact - contrary to videos and "bible studies" by catholic sources, sex is NOT for the sole purpose of procreation, but its PRIMARY function is that of bonding between a man and his wife, to bring them closer together, to become one...

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

They do not become one flesh by marriage, but through sexual union, which is a spiritual word picture demonstrating the kind of intimate relationship God seeks with those who come to Him.

Fourth fact - God commands us to be good stewards and to provide for our families...

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If I can only financially handle three children, and I make myself responsible for more than I can handle, then I Tim. 5:8 applies to me. Now, If I am a millionaire, and I WANT 20 kids and my wife is physically up to that task...then great. However, to bring more children into this world than I can financially care for, is gross stupidity on my part, and is an affront to the purpose of God.

Fifth fact - contrary to certain catholic teachings that I have heard, birth control is NOT abortion - that is plain idiotic, and hopefully not where you are coming from.

True, God told Adam and Eve and Noah and his family to "be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it," but that was for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled now for at least a thousand years. God does not expect us to continue to populate the earth until all natural resources are gone, as your stance leads to. The verb in the Hebrew for "increase" is saras, which means "to swarm" and "to breed abundantly," and that has been accomplished.



Now, therefore, open your mouth and demonstrate how you are going to "trap" me in my own doctrine.

Post your scriptural proof that God condones birth control.

Nice try, but I am not as naive as you are making yourself appear to be.

Answer the above, otherwise you automatically lose the debate.

[SwordMaster]

Never mind...answer the above.

[Tolasonn]

Post your argument why you believe it is acceptable
to God for the husband or wife to try to prevent
the birth of their children.

You have not even posted your argument.
That is because when you do...
you know I will trap you in a lie in your own doctrine.

Normally I would leave you to wallow in your own mire, but I am curious, so...I will do this one time...

First fact - there is no Scripture in the Bible that states what you claim. In fact, you do not even claim that the Bible does say what you claim...you claim that "God" told you this.

Second fact - you have no way to vindicate your claim. Saying "God told me" without Scripture to back it up (because, again, God does not contradict Himself - EVER!) doesn't cut it.

Third fact - contrary to videos and "bible studies" by catholic sources, sex is NOT for the sole purpose of procreation, but its PRIMARY function is that of bonding between a man and his wife, to bring them closer together, to become one...

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

They do not become one flesh by marriage, but through sexual union, which is a spiritual word picture demonstrating the kind of intimate relationship God seeks with those who come to Him.

Fourth fact - God commands us to be good stewards and to provide for our families...

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

If I can only financially handle three children, and I make myself responsible for more than I can handle, then I Tim. 5:8 applies to me. Now, If I am a millionaire, and I WANT 20 kids and my wife is physically up to that task...then great. However, to bring more children into this world than I can financially care for, is gross stupidity on my part, and is an affront to the purpose of God.

Fifth fact - contrary to certain catholic teachings that I have heard, birth control is NOT abortion - that is plain idiotic, and hopefully not where you are coming from.

True, God told Adam and Eve and Noah and his family to "be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it," but that was for a specific purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled now for at least a thousand years. God does not expect us to continue to populate the earth until all natural resources are gone, as your stance leads to. The verb in the Hebrew for "increase" is saras, which means "to swarm" and "to breed abundantly," and that has been accomplished.



Now, therefore, open your mouth and demonstrate how you are going to "trap" me in my own doctrine.

Post your scriptural proof that God condones birth control.

Answer the above, otherwise you automatically lose the debate.

I don't believe God is going to see it that way.

[Tolasonn]

I know God is going to judge this in favor of me.

[SwordMaster]

I know God is going to judge this in favor of me.

You don't know anything of the sort...

In other words, you have no evidence for any of your claim.

You lose the debate.

I don't believe God is going to see it that way.

We are not here to discuss what you believe subjectively, we are here to discuss what you can demonstrate objectively. And so far, all you have demonstrated is that you don't have any kind of factual support for your belief.

If that's all you can do, the debate is over and you lose.

Blessings!