Concerned with Book found in daughters Back Pack

[LovesBNAmom]

About a week ago I found the book "A Waste of Time Called Church" in my 14 year old daughter's pack back.   I have always prided myself in giving her a reasonable amount of freedom,  and have held back on confronting her about it.  Her father has chalked it up to just curiosity.  She maintains good grades, volunteers, and is active in  youth group.  I don't know if my concerns are only because she is typically so open with me or because I am genuinely concerned about this books content.  I spoke to my pastor's wife and she asked for me to give it time before addressing.  I have reached out to this forum for both advice and maybe a place to vent some.  Thank you   

[chosenone]

I would leave it. She is of an age to be questioning things for her self, and wanting to be independent. Just pray for her and let her sort things out in her way in her time.

[Helen]

Actually, I would mention to my daughter that I saw the book and ask her if it was good or had any good points it brought up.  Great springboard for a discussion --- not a lecture, a discussion!

[LovesBNAmom]

I spoke to my pastor's wife (also my daughter's youth minister) perhaps out of guilt for coming to this forum in the first place.   She has found the book at Amazon.   She forwarded me the books description (Below).    She is going to read it "because if one has it they all have it" and asked I do the same.    Her attitude is we need to know exactly what we are dealing with and while books of this nature can seem innocent enough their leveraging of "Humanitarian efforts over Faith  can be confusing to adolescents".   Her hope is to find something redeeming and focus only it and  use it to help prompt a dialogue.  I am more concern with the candid nature it seems to advocate the use of  marijuana.   Thanks everyone for responding.   

Maybe you are the one that can make sense of this. I know I can't. All I can really do is tell the truth about who he was and maybe offer some insight into why he did it. Tell you about an awkward boy with endless questions that evolved in to a narcotic pothead with one simple idea. "I will help people on Sunday instead of going to church."
He didn't shout it from a soap box. He didn't claim a path nor advise of one. He just did it, but in doing it people saw, and in seeing they grew curious. Their curiosity gave way to participation, and the idea gave way to a movement. A movement that when expanded, created an image of empty pews across the country, and those 60 million Americans that filled them every Sunday, setting out into their communities with one common goal; to help anyone that needed a hand.
A movement that traded Sunday bests for sweat trenched t-shirts and dust covered jeans. A movement that felt compelled to have a leader, no matter how much he pleaded with them they didn't.

[Catholica]

Sounds like humanism to me.

What we read matters very much; it influences our thought and changes the way we think forever.  If I was in this situation I would do like Helen and have a discussion with them about it right away.  Mainly because it is justice due to God to worship on Sunday.   We have six days a week to work, but God wants us to rest on the other day.

And if we really want to change the world, then we would be doing what the book suggests six days a week, not one, and giving that one day to God like he has desired for us.

[LovesBNAmom]

What is Humanism?

[Carey]

What is Humanism?

Basically morality/good works, but without faith.

[Helen]

Humanism puts human wisdom at the top of the list.  It does not acknowledge any deity, considers man the top of the evolutionary heap and is often associated with extremes in animal protection (massive lists of 'endangered species' before which we must sacrifice all), relativistic morality (what's good/right for you might not be good/right for me), and has taken control of the idea of being 'politically correct.'

[LovesBNAmom]

I finally bit the bullet and approached my daughter.   Casually while driving I let her know I saw it in her back pack.   Initially she seemed  little embarrassed as if reading it was being disrespectful.    But I remained calm and just asked "What's it about."   At first she seemed reluctant but as she talked she started to open up.   It's obvious that she is taking something from the book.  And while approaching her alleviated some stress it also created another problem.  When I asked, "Would you mind if I read it? "   She literally laughed at the idea, suggesting I wouldn't get it , siting the profanity and drug use.   When asked why?  She shut down and I got,  "I don't know I don't think you would like it."    So I am still no clearer on what I should do.

[MeMyself]

I finally bit the bullet and approached my daughter.   Casually while driving I let her know I saw it in her back pack.   Initially she seemed  little embarrassed as if reading it was being disrespectful.    But I remained calm and just asked "What's it about."   At first she seemed reluctant but as she talked she started to open up.   It's obvious that she is taking something from the book.  And while approaching her alleviated some stress it also created another problem.  When I asked, "Would you mind if I read it? "   She literally laughed at the idea, suggesting I wouldn't get it , siting the profanity and drug use.   When asked why?  She shut down and I got,  "I don't know I don't think you would like it."    So I am still no clearer on what I should do.

I would ask her on a date, let her pick her favorite place and go do that.  During dinner have *fun* together, chat and be silly, laugh and be at ease with each other and when you feel the time is right, I would bring it up again.  Say something like "That book is on my mind, and what you said; that you didn't think I would like it makes me curious. How do YOU feel about it?  Tell me what your thoughts are, how the book makes you feel." And listen to her heart on the matter, praying all the while for wisdom, that God would direct you how to use this for His glory both in your relationship with her and her walk with Him.  Keep the lines of communication open.

[Willie T]

I would say you might already be behind the ball.  You've had about a week since you first found this book, and you still have not read it for yourself?  Why not?

What if she had been willing to discuss some of the book when you finally confronted her?  You wouldn't have been anywhere near ready to do anything but prove she is right when she said you wouldn't get it... at least, to her.

[LovesBNAmom]

I would say you might already be behind the ball.  You've had about a week since you first found this book, and you still have not read it for yourself?  Why not?

[FireSword]

Perhaps the book is critique of Church but not faith in Jesus or the word. So it might be a book with good intentions.

[LovesBNAmom]

I have received my copy and skimmed it but I have yet to truly sit down and start reading it.  The title alone makes me very apprehensive but I was also hoping my daughter would extend me an invitation.   I have spoken to my friend and she is close to finishing it.    According to her it is not "Humanism" as she first thought but more a call for "Inclusion".   She said it is a pretty aggressive indictment on the ritual of worship and the bible itself and a blatant attack on the pulpit, by leveraging Good Works over Worship.  She and I have both  done research online about the title and the author only finding some occasional mentions.   This has raised concern in my friend on how and where my daughter got it from.   I will read this weekend.

[MeMyself]

  This has raised concern in my friend on how and where my daughter got it from.   

May I ask why you seem to be relying so much on your friends opinion of the situation?  You are her mama. You know your child best. Read the book, talk to your girl!

[LovesBNAmom]

[May I ask why you seem to be relying so much on your friends opinion of the situation?  You are her mama. You know your child best. Read the book, talk to your girl!

[LovesBNAmom]

 Of course I know I am her Mother.  But this is new territory for me.  This isn't her asking if she can see a boy, or her bringing home a bad grade.  This isn't her back talking.  This is different and I am taking it very seriously.   This is a spiritual question and I seek advice from my friend her Youth minister and my pastor's wife.   I don't know all the answers or the questions she could possibly ask or how to respond.   I will always seek guidance when available.   

Sorry about the multiple posts I am not very good at quoting.

[MeMyself]

Of course I know I am her Mother.  But this is new territory for me.  This isn't her asking if she can see a boy, or her bringing home a bad grade.  This isn't her back talking.  This is different and I am taking it very seriously.   This is a spiritual question and I seek advice from my friend her Youth minister and my pastor's wife.   I don't know all the answers or the questions she could possibly ask or how to respond.   I will always seek guidance when available.   

Sorry about the multiple posts I am not very good at quoting.

Getting advice or insight is fine, but I get the feeling you are basing your actions on what she thinks and waiting to act based on what she will eventually tell you to do...that seems off to me for some reason.

Are you a new believer? Is that why you feel less qualified to answer her spiritual dilemmas as her mom? 

[Willie T]

Of course I know I am her Mother.  But this is new territory for me.  This isn't her asking if she can see a boy, or her bringing home a bad grade.  This isn't her back talking.  This is different and I am taking it very seriously.   This is a spiritual question and I seek advice from my friend her Youth minister and my pastor's wife.   I don't know all the answers or the questions she could possibly ask or how to respond.   I will always seek guidance when available.   

Sorry about the multiple posts I am not very good at quoting.

Getting advice or insight is fine, but I get the feeling you are basing your actions on what she thinks and waiting to act based on what she will eventually tell you to do...that seems off to me for some reason.

Are you a new believer? Is that why you feel less qualified to answer her spiritual dilemmas as her mom?

I'm about half-way into the second chapter, and from what I see so far, it is nothing to sweat.  In fact, it seems to be a very accurate remembrance of the foolishness we adults put kids through where the proper adherence to acceptable church etiquette is concerned.

I'm enjoying it immensely!  But if your daughter thinks you won't get it, I'd say there should be a red flag going up.... FOR YOU.  I think my daughter would say, "I'm sure glad you're not like the parents in this book!"

[LovesBNAmom]

First I am not a new believer but don't see why it would matter when I came to Christ.  I respect my friend for who she is and I respect my church.  When it comes to my daughter's spiritual health My family works in concert with the church.  For some this may just be an easy sit at the table and have an open discussion.  For me it is not that easy.  I find the title "A Waste of Time Called Church  A Stoner's Guide to Salvation" Both offensive and all out affront to our core belief.   The church is represents our spiritual foundation and I will not proceed thinking I am ill prepared for this discussion.  There is too much at stake !  What is wrong with that.

[chosenone]

I wouldnt worry too much honestly. Teenagers will all do things and read things that we may not like. Its all part of them growing up, questioning things and being independent.  I am sure this wont be the last time that things like this happen, in fact this is a very minor event compared to many.

Personally I would never have got the pastors wife or the youth pastor involved in this at all, its a minor matter, and my kids would have been mortified if I had. Its private. It would have been between them and their dad and myself.

Its just a book. Pray for her, trust God and move on. You will be very fortunate if this is the worst thing you have had to deal with or that you ever have to deal with. Children need to be allowed to stretch their wings and find God for themselves in their own time, and this can often lead to a time of seeming rejection of what you as her parents have told them and led them to believe.

[chosenone]

Of course I know I am her Mother.  But this is new territory for me.  This isn't her asking if she can see a boy, or her bringing home a bad grade.  This isn't her back talking.  This is different and I am taking it very seriously.   This is a spiritual question and I seek advice from my friend her Youth minister and my pastor's wife.   I don't know all the answers or the questions she could possibly ask or how to respond.   I will always seek guidance when available.   

Sorry about the multiple posts I am not very good at quoting.

Getting advice or insight is fine, but I get the feeling you are basing your actions on what she thinks and waiting to act based on what she will eventually tell you to do...that seems off to me for some reason.

Are you a new believer? Is that why you feel less qualified to answer her spiritual dilemmas as her mom?

I'm about half-way into the second chapter, and from what I see so far, it is nothing to sweat.  In fact, it seems to be a very accurate remembrance of the foolishness we adults put kids through where the proper adherence to acceptable church etiquette is concerned.

I'm enjoying it immensely!  But if your daughter thinks you won't get it, I'd say there should be a red flag going up.... FOR YOU.  I think my daughter would say, "I'm sure glad you're not like the parents in this book!"

Listen to Willie.

[Willie T]

Truthfully, this could be seen as a golden opportunity for you and your daughter to sit down, and really get to know each other spiritually..... and even if it HAS to be... "religiously", too.  A good time to teach her (and maybe for her to teach you?) what "church" really SHOULD be all about.... as opposed to what we've often made it to be.

[MeMyself]

First I am not a new believer but don't see why it would matter when I came to Christ.

I certainly wasn't meaning my question as an attack. I am just trying to understand why you would feel like you needed to defer to her is all.  You said this was new territory for you and I was wondering if you were new at a Christian walk for it to be do is all.

I respect my friend for who she is and I respect my church.  When it comes to my daughter's spiritual health My family works in concert with the church. 

Ok...

For some this may just be an easy sit at the table and have an open discussion.  For me it is not that easy.

I am sincerely sorry to hear that. I don't understand why it wouldn't be that easy?  Just do it, just talk to her, or better; listen to her! 

I find the title "A Waste of Time Called Church  A Stoner's Guide to Salvation" Both offensive and all out affront to our core belief.   The church is represents our spiritual foundation and I will not proceed thinking I am ill prepared for this discussion.  There is too much at stake !  What is wrong with that.

Ok.

[MeMyself]

Personally I would never have got the pastors wife or the youth pastor involved in this at all, its a minor matter, and my kids would have been mortified if I had. Its private. It would have been between them and their dad and myself.

I agree completely!

Its just a book. Pray for her, trust God and move on. You will be very fortunate if this is the worst thing you have had to deal with or that you ever have to deal with. Children need to be allowed to stretch their wings and find God for themselves in their own time, and this can often lead to a time of seeming rejection of what you as her parents have told them and led them to believe.

TOTALLY agree here as well.

My children were given the truths necessary to live a godly life, but that does not mean they will have convictions and beliefs that are in lock step to ours, our church, or our pastor and his wife.  (I dont' think WE even agree on every point our pastor does!)

[MeMyself]

Truthfully, this could be seen as a golden opportunity for you and your daughter to sit down, and really get to know each other spiritually..... and even if it HAS to be... "religiously", too.  A good time to teach her (and maybe for her to teach you?) what "church" really SHOULD be all about.... as opposed to what we've often made it to be.

Amen!

[Willie T]

There seems to be some concern over the choice of the title..... Well, so far, I happen to agree with the "Stoner".  Church, the way it seems to have been presented to the kids in this book, was probably VERY MUCH a waste of time.

Don't let yourself get hung-up on something so trivial.

[Catholica]

Your daughter is at the age where kids are beginning to make a decision, a time in their lives when many young people these days abandon church and don't return for a long time if ever.  So this is a great opportunity to share with your daughter why continuing to go to Church is very, very important.  You probably have your reasons why, and those would be great to share with your daughter.

I disagree with the hands-off approach presented by some here.  You as the parent have the responsibility of spiritual care for your child.

This book is clearly providing the reader with a one-dimensional view into one particular person's experience at their church, and it does so with a rebellious spirit.  Rebellious spirits are not from God.  It would not be a stretch to call the rebellious spirit "demonic" as that is what happened that caused the angels to fall and become demons.

So basically there is spiritual warfare going on, and you (and your husband) have an important role in this situation.  Try to instill in her what inspires you to go to Church.  Give her some foresight into the difficulties of life and that will instill wisdom.  We all benefit by taking time to be quiet with the Lord, and not always busy as this book teaches.  Jesus praised Mary for sitting at his feet while Martha ran around and served people.  That might be your go-to story to oppose the message in this book.

Pray first, of course, and I will pray for you and for your daughter.

Andre

[chosenone]

Your daughter is at the age where kids are beginning to make a decision, a time in their lives when many young people these days abandon church and don't return for a long time if ever.  So this is a great opportunity to share with your daughter why continuing to go to Church is very, very important.  You probably have your reasons why, and those would be great to share with your daughter.

I disagree with the hands-off approach presented by some here.  You as the parent have the responsibility of spiritual care for your child.

This book is clearly providing the reader with a one-dimensional view into one particular person's experience at their church, and it does so with a rebellious spirit.  Rebellious spirits are not from God.  It would not be a stretch to call the rebellious spirit "demonic" as that is what happened that caused the angels to fall and become demons.

So basically there is spiritual warfare going on, and you (and your husband) have an important role in this situation.  Try to instill in her what inspires you to go to Church.  Give her some foresight into the difficulties of life and that will instill wisdom.  We all benefit by taking time to be quiet with the Lord, and not always busy as this book teaches.  Jesus praised Mary for sitting at his feet while Martha ran around and served people.  That might be your go-to story to oppose the message in this book.

Pray first, of course, and I will pray for you and for your daughter.

Andre

Andre, my approach of not stressing over every little thing worked very well for my children. We need to pick our battles and actually allow our children to grow up and learn and find out for themselves. We must learn to let go and trust our children into Gods care. 

I agree 100% with the girls father, who said its curiosity, and HE is who the OP should be listening to rather than those outside the family. He is the spiritual head of the home and the husband and father. 

[MeMyself]

Catholica, I don't see *anyone* advocating for a hands off approach!  She NEEDS to get in this herself, not wait on the pastor's wife to tell her what to do, and open a dialog with her daughter!

She needs to not get super hung up on one word in the title, jump to conclusions, and freak out, making this a bigger deal than it perhaps needs to be.

It is a wonderful opportunity for her and her daughter's relationship to be strengthened and deepened.  There is truly no greater blessing than to talk about the things of God, His word and how He would have us live with the children He has blessed us with. It is not the job of our pastor or his wife to do that. It is ours as parents. IMO.

[JohnDB]

Every teenager goes through this.   Trying to find themselves and trying to figure out what God wants from them.  Children are people with unique personalities.   

But at the same time give her Josh McDowell books full of apologetics.

Also do what Jesus said to do....tell how much God has done for you personally.  How being a Christian has benefitted you with attaining goals and dreams.

Also tell how you would have followed your personal vices to what end if you werent a Christian.

[Catholica]

Your daughter is at the age where kids are beginning to make a decision, a time in their lives when many young people these days abandon church and don't return for a long time if ever.  So this is a great opportunity to share with your daughter why continuing to go to Church is very, very important.  You probably have your reasons why, and those would be great to share with your daughter.

I disagree with the hands-off approach presented by some here.  You as the parent have the responsibility of spiritual care for your child.

This book is clearly providing the reader with a one-dimensional view into one particular person's experience at their church, and it does so with a rebellious spirit.  Rebellious spirits are not from God.  It would not be a stretch to call the rebellious spirit "demonic" as that is what happened that caused the angels to fall and become demons.

So basically there is spiritual warfare going on, and you (and your husband) have an important role in this situation.  Try to instill in her what inspires you to go to Church.  Give her some foresight into the difficulties of life and that will instill wisdom.  We all benefit by taking time to be quiet with the Lord, and not always busy as this book teaches.  Jesus praised Mary for sitting at his feet while Martha ran around and served people.  That might be your go-to story to oppose the message in this book.

Pray first, of course, and I will pray for you and for your daughter.

Andre

Andre, my approach of not stressing over every little thing worked very well for my children. We need to pick our battles and actually allow our children to grow up and learn and find out for themselves. We must learn to let go and trust our children into Gods care. 

Detachment is good for us personally, but towards our children it can be bad.    My mom thinks she did a pretty good job in raising me also, and she also didn't stress over "every little thing".  Or any "big thing" for that matter.  She took a very hands off approach.  And I fell into traps of sin.  God made up for her mistakes, but He also gives us parents to impart wisdom.  I wouldn't consider this a "little thing".

God is caring for our children, and the name of that care for this child is "LovesBNAmom".

[Willie T]

Your daughter is at the age where kids are beginning to make a decision, a time in their lives when many young people these days abandon church and don't return for a long time if ever.  So this is a great opportunity to share with your daughter why continuing to go to Church is very, very important.  You probably have your reasons why, and those would be great to share with your daughter.

I disagree with the hands-off approach presented by some here.  You as the parent have the responsibility of spiritual care for your child.

This book is clearly providing the reader with a one-dimensional view into one particular person's experience at their church, and it does so with a rebellious spirit.  Rebellious spirits are not from God.  It would not be a stretch to call the rebellious spirit "demonic" as that is what happened that caused the angels to fall and become demons.

So basically there is spiritual warfare going on, and you (and your husband) have an important role in this situation.  Try to instill in her what inspires you to go to Church.  Give her some foresight into the difficulties of life and that will instill wisdom.  We all benefit by taking time to be quiet with the Lord, and not always busy as this book teaches.  Jesus praised Mary for sitting at his feet while Martha ran around and served people.  That might be your go-to story to oppose the message in this book.

Pray first, of course, and I will pray for you and for your daughter.

Andre

Andre, my approach of not stressing over every little thing worked very well for my children. We need to pick our battles and actually allow our children to grow up and learn and find out for themselves. We must learn to let go and trust our children into Gods care. 

Detachment is good for us personally, but towards our children it can be bad.    My mom thinks she did a pretty good job in raising me also, and she also didn't stress over "every little thing".  Or any "big thing" for that matter.  She took a very hands off approach.  And I fell into traps of sin.  God made up for her mistakes, but He also gives us parents to impart wisdom.  I wouldn't consider this a "little thing".

God is caring for our children, and the name of that care for this child is "LovesBNAmom".

As is often the case, a bit of over reaction seems to have crept into the response to the intent of a post.

I think we all know ChosenOne too well to think that a "Ho Hum" attitude was ever suggested.

[Willie T]

I hope we all have spent the measly $3.25 it takes to get a download of this little book.

The author is far from professional, making just about every kind of mistake you could think of in writing, but he is entertaining, nonetheless.

It's an easy read about how screwed up a kid's thinking can become when there is no seeming interest nor guidance from a concerned and aware adult.

I'm only on chapter 7, so I'm not too far into the book, but so many glaring parental and congregational leadership mistakes are standing out like "WARNING" road signs.  It's not just us parents, folks.... it really DOES take a village when kids are involved.

[Catholica]

Your daughter is at the age where kids are beginning to make a decision, a time in their lives when many young people these days abandon church and don't return for a long time if ever.  So this is a great opportunity to share with your daughter why continuing to go to Church is very, very important.  You probably have your reasons why, and those would be great to share with your daughter.

I disagree with the hands-off approach presented by some here.  You as the parent have the responsibility of spiritual care for your child.

This book is clearly providing the reader with a one-dimensional view into one particular person's experience at their church, and it does so with a rebellious spirit.  Rebellious spirits are not from God.  It would not be a stretch to call the rebellious spirit "demonic" as that is what happened that caused the angels to fall and become demons.

So basically there is spiritual warfare going on, and you (and your husband) have an important role in this situation.  Try to instill in her what inspires you to go to Church.  Give her some foresight into the difficulties of life and that will instill wisdom.  We all benefit by taking time to be quiet with the Lord, and not always busy as this book teaches.  Jesus praised Mary for sitting at his feet while Martha ran around and served people.  That might be your go-to story to oppose the message in this book.

Pray first, of course, and I will pray for you and for your daughter.

Andre

Andre, my approach of not stressing over every little thing worked very well for my children. We need to pick our battles and actually allow our children to grow up and learn and find out for themselves. We must learn to let go and trust our children into Gods care. 

Detachment is good for us personally, but towards our children it can be bad.    My mom thinks she did a pretty good job in raising me also, and she also didn't stress over "every little thing".  Or any "big thing" for that matter.  She took a very hands off approach.  And I fell into traps of sin.  God made up for her mistakes, but He also gives us parents to impart wisdom.  I wouldn't consider this a "little thing".

God is caring for our children, and the name of that care for this child is "LovesBNAmom".

As is often the case, a bit of over reaction seems to have crept into the response to the intent of a post.

I think we all know ChosenOne too well to think that a "Ho Hum" attitude was ever suggested.

I'm only going by her words: "Its just a book. Pray for her, trust God and move on."