Am I crazy

[thunderfish]

Am I crazy

« on: Yesterday at 10:01:13 PM »



I can hardly bring myself to do this but I'm being Torn up inside. I'm not even sure if this is the proper place to say this. I don't care I gotta get it out. I can't talk face to face with somebody so I'm just going to vent on the net. Let me tell you the tale of an idiot!
    I let the most amazing woman slip through my fingers. We started off as lovers and became best friends as well. She was kind, caring, so loving,  showed me such warmth. She was such a cute little woman. we really lusted after each other as well. Whenever we would first see each other she would have this look in her eye. This genuine I love you and am so glad to see you look to her . It would be accompanied by this "Hi Wayne" in the sweetest voice. It would melt my heart I would dash over to her sweep her off of her feet gently spin her. we would kiss each other with such passion that it would shock me each time. I can't believe how in love we were.
  obviously I had lost my way with the  lord a couple of years before I met her to behave in such a way , during that time and my time with her(2 1/2 years) I couldn't shake the feeling that I Had lost my way and needed to do something about it. I loved her so much but she was divorced , I wanted to devout myself to her so badly but I knew if I did I would have bound myself to an adulterous relationship and might never get right with the lord again. I tried so hard to ignore it. I also knew that over time I began to hurt her because I wouldn't fully give that last bit of myself . we had such a connection I just couldn't pull away either. But I also couldn't shake the adultery, making a grave error feeling. Uh.... how I wish she had never been married. Anyway she finally had enough and said commit or else. You don't know how close I was to doing it. but I just couldn't. She begged me to tell her what was holding me back. I couldn't bring myself to tell her though. I feel so guilty what I put her through I was such a coward I should have cut the poor woman loose when I knew I couldn't go all the way.  I behaved so selfishly.
   I have never had such a hard time getting over someone. I'm so Torn up inside. On one hand I have this opportunity to try to make things right and move closer to the lord which a part of me has been longing for for years now. On the other hand I have this feeling that I just gave up my only chance to finally devout myself to a woman who loves me and at long last have a real home. Her parents gave her some land and a mobile home up at their farm. She gave me multiple hints that she would love it if we got married and built a life together there. I couldn't do it. ahhhhh. I'm 39 years old with hardly 30 thousand dollars to my name she was so unmaterialistic she just love me, wanted me. I think she was my last chance.

Am  I crazy to have let her go. I'm so depressed. I..... I have to devout myself to the lord this could be my last chance with him. If I had listened to him I would have never put her and I through this torture. I've been so torn between her an god.... I've let both of them down and probably don't deserve either of them.
well as you can see I'm a pretty big screw up
All I can think of to do next is read the bible and pray. this backslid nonsense has to end.
Wish me luck as I try to become a godly man

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:08:18 PM by thunderfish »

[chosenone]

Getting back with God is the most important thing you need to do. Once you are well on the way with that and back at church and part of a good strong church family, you will be in a far better position to meet and marry a Christian lady(not a non Christian)

From what you say, God was leading you away from that relationship. You feel it was because she was divorced. I think it was because a)you were having sex outside marriage which is surely just as bad as adultery, and b) she wasn't a Christian.

As for her being divorced. Firstly why was she divorced? Divorce is allowed by God for sexual sin and abandonment. Some say also for serious abuse but I cant find that in the Bible, separation definately, but not sure about divorce.  Secondly if she was divorced as a non believer do you not believe that God will forgive that if she were to repent and give her life to him?

I think you should have come clean with her. Told her that you felt God was calling you back to Him, and that your relationship with her as it was was very wrong and sinful. However that is past now, and you need to look ahead and get to Know God as your Father and follow the path He has set out for you(which will be a good one).  Put Him first and the rest will follow.

  No it wasnt your last chance for love and marriage. There are many lovely available Christian ladies in the church, far more than men. I know several couples who married after your age, and had children. 



   

[JohnDB]

Deviating from usual and customary behaviors of those in your social group is the definition of crazy.

As such Christians do this regularly.

But

If she isnt a Christian there is good reason for breaking up with her.
and inside Christian circles you are a great catch so you can always marry up.

[chosenone]

Deviating from usual and customary behaviors of those in your social group is the definition of crazy.

As such Christians do this regularly.

But

If she isnt a Christian there is good reason for breaking up with her.
and inside Christian circles you are a great catch so you can always marry up.

You often mention this 'marrying up'. What exactly do you mean by that by that?

[Culsey]

You are not crazy at all. When our faith is tested it is often painful but it must happen so that you will be perfected and Paul has taught that it is his will to present all of us to God perfected in Christ. Peter speaks of gold being tried by fire. So is our faith tried by fire and it is often very painful. You are the better for it as your faith has been greatly strengthened and perfected in Christ. Do not be discouraged when Satan causes you pain by trying your faith. Of course if you had refrained from sin your faith would have been perfected with much less pain. This is a lesson not just for you but for all of us. I wish you well my friend.

[JohnDB]

Deviating from usual and customary behaviors of those in your social group is the definition of crazy.

As such Christians do this regularly.

But

If she isnt a Christian there is good reason for breaking up with her.
and inside Christian circles you are a great catch so you can always marry up.

You often mention this 'marrying up'. What exactly do you mean by that by that?

Those of particular social, economic, and educational levels usually marry inside those levels  marrying above to a higher level is what I mean.   Women usually marry up and men generally speaking do not.  The true Christian man can usually marry up into a higher level than he is accustomed to residing in.

[chosenone]

Deviating from usual and customary behaviors of those in your social group is the definition of crazy.

As such Christians do this regularly.

But

If she isnt a Christian there is good reason for breaking up with her.
and inside Christian circles you are a great catch so you can always marry up.

You often mention this 'marrying up'. What exactly do you mean by that by that?

Those of particular social, economic, and educational levels usually marry inside those levels  marrying above to a higher level is what I mean.   Women usually marry up and men generally speaking do not.  The true Christian man can usually marry up into a higher level than he is accustomed to residing in.

Maybe he could, but why would he want to?  Marriages usually work better if people generally keep to their own social, economic and educational levels dont you think? Not always but generally.

[thunderfish]

  Your right to assume that I have plenty of room to marry up. But just for the record I do make just above the median income( I'm not a total loser), despite being a high school drop out. I guess its a credit to our economy and resourcefulness as a people that we can continue to provide a decent living for guys like me even though we have lost our industrial base. On my part I was clever enough to recognize my career.
  I have also educated myself in currency creation ,speculation , economics ( keynesian and Austrian ) and politics (although I am not political)and how intertwined they are. Enron , MF global , Madoff,  ect . all very Interesting stuff. The corruption of the system is what I find the most fascinating though. That and the power of political connections.
  So yes  I am under educated and I have always struggled with spelling and punctuation. but despite that I managed to put myself right in the middle income wise. So if half the people make less than me and half the people make more than me I guess I have as much room to marry up as down. lol. I have no debt, but I did waste a lot of money on dirt bikes, rifles , mustangs, nitro kits, racing suspensions and stuff, before I got into save mode a couple years ago.

[chosenone]

Well I am not sure that the amount people earn should have anything to do with whether they are right for us or Gods choice for us. When I asked God for certain things in a husband, not once did I mention his income. God says He will provide so that's what He will do. 

[JohnDB]

And considering the lack of real Christian men when one goes to church they get swamped with women wishing relationships.  Certain churches I personally had to avoid so I wouldn't become an adulterous letch. (The women were rather bold there) 

So with your talent of having and holding on to a relationship (some singles never learn how) you will find yourself a wanted man. If you find the right community of singles you really wont eat another meal alone or one cooked in a eestaraunt if you dont wish to.  I personally love home cooked meals and women love a guy who is handy with tools.

[chosenone]

And considering the lack of real Christian men when one goes to church they get swamped with women wishing relationships.  Certain churches I personally had to avoid so I wouldn't become an adulterous letch. (The women were rather bold there) 

So with your talent of having and holding on to a relationship (some singles never learn how) you will find yourself a wanted man. If you find the right community of singles you really wont eat another meal alone or one cooked in a eestaraunt if you dont wish to.  I personally love home cooked meals and women love a guy who is handy with tools.

It does sounds as if the women there are far more bold and maybe desperate there than here. It just doesnt happen here, this 'swamping'..Yes there are generally more available women than men, but I think the women have more pride in themselves than to throw themselves at any man.  Also I think many have been hurt by men so are wary of starting another relationship. To be honest there arent that many single women here either, at least in the over 40 age ranges, a few but not many. When I was divorced in my 40's, there was only one other single/divorced lady anywhere near that age in my church out of 250-300 people.

[JohnDB]

Thats the UK...not the USA.

Here things are vastly different.   In the SE we have loads of churches and many that have anywhere from 1,000-10,000 in attendance on any given Sunday.   Nevermind the Maryland/DC area which has almost no men.

Yes there are small churches in both locations but the women outnumber the men every time.  And in some of them the single ones are looking for a real man who is a real Christian.  And that is precisely my experience and my recommendation for him to experience.

The women may be subtle and not bold but they definitely want men.

[chosenone]

Thats the UK...not the USA.

Here things are vastly different.   In the SE we have loads of churches and many that have anywhere from 1,000-10,000 in attendance on any given Sunday.   Nevermind the Maryland/DC area which has almost no men.

Yes there are small churches in both locations but the women outnumber the men every time.  And in some of them the single ones are looking for a real man who is a real Christian.  And that is precisely my experience and my recommendation for him to experience.

The women may be subtle and not bold but they definitely want men.

  I suppose in the sort of churches I go to there are usually a good number of guys there as well as ladies. Charismatic churches tend to be that way here. Fairly equal numbers. Often the reason women are alone here in church is because their husbands arent believers, that's the case with several of my friends, or the husbands have died, in the case of older ladies alone.   

[JohnDB]

Thats the UK...not the USA.

Here things are vastly different.   In the SE we have loads of churches and many that have anywhere from 1,000-10,000 in attendance on any given Sunday.   Nevermind the Maryland/DC area which has almost no men.

Yes there are small churches in both locations but the women outnumber the men every time.  And in some of them the single ones are looking for a real man who is a real Christian.  And that is precisely my experience and my recommendation for him to experience.

The women may be subtle and not bold but they definitely want men.

  I suppose in the sort of churches I go to there are usually a good number of guys there as well as ladies. Charismatic churches tend to be that way here. Fairly equal numbers. Often the reason women are alone here in church is because their husbands arent believers, that's the case with several of my friends, or the husbands have died, in the case of older ladies alone.

OK...but that is YOUR experience inside the UK. Mine in America and Canada is vastly different. Men die off here due to vice. (gambling, drinking/chemical dependency) or get so terribly sick that they are unable to have a normal relationship any longer. So the numbers of available women far outnumber the men. There are lots of single guys wanting a sexual relationship but guess what? Christian women don't want that. They want a real relationship. Christian men want real relationships too outside of simply having sex. And so when a real man who is a sincere Christian shows up all of the available women wish to get to know him and about him...I wonder why? (sarcasm)


Most women enjoy being married. Many here are divorced or still single and attend church. Since there aren't enough single men in church most women have hopes of finding a unicorn in church (the same odds as finding a Christian, single man)...it's a pipe dream but so many hold out hope it is kinda funny.


Which is why when I started going to churches with older single groups I found myself constantly being surrounded by women and very few men. I had my choice of women...loads of them of varying educational and occupational levels as well as fibonacci number variations. (appearance)


So yes, I coulda dated Barbi's sister/cousin but I didn't wish to...I didn't like their personalities and habits. I coulda dated lawyers and doctors and loads of schoolteachers and nurses...again didn't wish to. I knew what I wanted and stayed in the types of women that I knew I would prefer. But the ability to make friends and assist those friends with their needs got me a lot of home cooked meals by some very lovely ladies. I had a great time...but I still wanted more and got more. I got a best friend who also is my lover. A true equal in most every respect...except age. (she is 17 years younger than I)


Having a trophy wife is a real possibility for a guy who couldn't get the head cheerleader in high school. A real Christian man can if he is over 30...because that Quarterback turned into a real dunce and became an abusive alcoholic with a very limited skill set and he just blew his last career opportunity. So the head cheerleader left (with one or two kids) and lives on her own dreaming still of having a good life with a good, Christian man who has a steady job and isn't looking for her to support him too. The shy woman who can't seem to form complete sentences isn't going to attract his attention at all no matter how pretty she is...the louder ones will because they actually have a personality. .

[Catholica]

You did the right thing.  Nothing is more important than being able to obey your conscience before God, but if there is a close second, it would be marrying a woman who is going to bring you closer to God.

It is always a mistake to become physically intimate in any way with a woman before you are married.  I did, but thank God we both had conversions.  It is much harder to think clearly about what is important in your life, and also what God is calling you to do regarding a potential spouse, when you have already been physical with someone.  There is a spiritual bond that is formed whenever we are intimate with someone, and those are very hard to break.  God meant for that spiritual bond to be formed only in marriage.

You still have time to find the right woman.  Don't let anyone try to tell you that you don't need to worry about whether a woman was married before or not.  It is your conscience that you must obey, and in this case, your conscience is correct.  God said that when two people become married, let no man part them.  Look for someone who loves the Lord and respects you, and also someone who is going to help you be a better man, and train yourself in virtue so that you can be ready to lay down your life for the right woman when she comes along like Christ did for you.

In this way, your marriage will be filled with joy, even when the times of hardship come, and the suffering which no man or woman can avoid.  The path to joy and true peace and freedom is laid out for you by God. 

[chosenone]

You did the right thing.  Nothing is more important than being able to obey your conscience before God, but if there is a close second, it would be marrying a woman who is going to bring you closer to God.

It is always a mistake to become physically intimate in any way with a woman before you are married.  I did, but thank God we both had conversions.  It is much harder to think clearly about what is important in your life, and also what God is calling you to do regarding a potential spouse, when you have already been physical with someone.  There is a spiritual bond that is formed whenever we are intimate with someone, and those are very hard to break.  God meant for that spiritual bond to be formed only in marriage.

You still have time to find the right woman.  Don't let anyone try to tell you that you don't need to worry about whether a woman was married before or not.  It is your conscience that you must obey, and in this case, your conscience is correct.  God said that when two people become married, let no man part them.  Look for someone who loves the Lord and respects you, and also someone who is going to help you be a better man, and train yourself in virtue so that you can be ready to lay down your life for the right woman when she comes along like Christ did for you.

In this way, your marriage will be filled with joy, even when the times of hardship come, and the suffering which no man or woman can avoid.  The path to joy and true peace and freedom is laid out for you by God. 

  However, Jesus says that sexual immorality is an allowable reason to end a marriage, and also, just as you were forgiven for sex before marriage because you weren't believers,  so a person who unbiblically divorced before conversion is also forgiven and washed clean. They are thus free to remarry, but to a believer if they are a believer.   

I don't want people to get the wrong idea, and think that a divorce for sexual immorality isn't allowed by God.  It is.

I suspect his conscience was being pricked because of the fact that he was in a sinful relationship with a non believer. Two big no no's for a Christian. 

[Catholica]

You did the right thing.  Nothing is more important than being able to obey your conscience before God, but if there is a close second, it would be marrying a woman who is going to bring you closer to God.

It is always a mistake to become physically intimate in any way with a woman before you are married.  I did, but thank God we both had conversions.  It is much harder to think clearly about what is important in your life, and also what God is calling you to do regarding a potential spouse, when you have already been physical with someone.  There is a spiritual bond that is formed whenever we are intimate with someone, and those are very hard to break.  God meant for that spiritual bond to be formed only in marriage.

You still have time to find the right woman.  Don't let anyone try to tell you that you don't need to worry about whether a woman was married before or not.  It is your conscience that you must obey, and in this case, your conscience is correct.  God said that when two people become married, let no man part them.  Look for someone who loves the Lord and respects you, and also someone who is going to help you be a better man, and train yourself in virtue so that you can be ready to lay down your life for the right woman when she comes along like Christ did for you.

In this way, your marriage will be filled with joy, even when the times of hardship come, and the suffering which no man or woman can avoid.  The path to joy and true peace and freedom is laid out for you by God. 

  However, Jesus says that sexual immorality is an allowable reason to end a marriage, and also, just as you were forgiven for sex before marriage because you weren't believers,  so a person who unbiblically divorced before conversion is also forgiven and washed clean. They are thus free to remarry, but to a believer if they are a believer.   

I don't want people to get the wrong idea, and think that a divorce for sexual immorality isn't allowed by God.  It is.

I suspect his conscience was being pricked because of the fact that he was in a sinful relationship with a non believer. Two big no no's for a Christian. 

If you didn't want people to get the wrong idea, you shouldn't tell them that divorce for sexual immorality is allowed by God.  A) It's not and B) you are not God nor are you God's mouthpiece.

If you believe that all scripture is without error then you need to make all the verses fit to know the truth.

1 Cor. 7
10 To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): A wife should not separate from her husband
11—and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband—and a husband should not divorce his wife.

Matthew 5
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness (por'neia), causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19
1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. 3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" 4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness (por'neia), and marries another woman commits adultery." 10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." 11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.

Mark 10
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" 3 "What did Moses command you?" he replied. 4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away." 5 "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6 "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 7 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

If Matthew's Gospel is true (which gives the impression, in translation, that divorce due to adultery is allowed) the Mark's Gospel is not true, because Mark gives no impression of any allowance for adultery.  Nor does Paul give a special allowance for divorce in 1 Cor 7, *except* if *one* of the two spouses is an unbeliever.  No exception is there if both are unbelievers, and Paul's exception is only one of exercising his power to bind and loose, which in this case is indicated that the exception comes from him, not the Lord.  But the Lord says that a married person, if they separate, must remain single, and this goes well with at least the passage from Mark.

The passage from Matthew some see as an "addition" to Mark and so disregard Mark.  It does have some additional info, but it's not to be understand as you claim, because your interpretation contradicts 1 Cor. 7 and Mark 10.

There was a word for adultery in the first century Greek and "por'neia" was not it.  Por'neia was a word that was much more general standing for all kinds of sexual immorality. In the Bible version I quoted above, 'por'neia' was translated "marital unfaithfulness". But if one wants to not contradict Mark and Paul (and even Matthew) then you need a different sort of notion, because Paul and Mark are both a) true and b) give no exception.

The correct way to understand "por'neia" is to see it as a falsely entered-into covenant between man and wife; a defect in the form of marriage (say, between two people of the same gender, or more than two people) or in the intention (say, where the spouses never intended to be faithful).  This would make the marriage invalid from the start and thus never created by God in the first place.  This is the only way for all four of these passages to be true and make sense.

To consider the case where adultery is an escape clause for marriage (that would allow someone to marry again) a person could just commit adultery and get out of any marriage they wanted to.  That itself flies in the face of the apostles' reaction to Jesus words in Matthew 19:10: "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."  Marriage is a high calling, and Jesus was upping the bar over the OT.  There is no divorce in a marriage that has been made so by God, except by the power of the Church to bind and loose, and even then only in very specific cases (such as a marriage between a believer and unbeliever, not between two unbelievers).

The woman's previous marriage may have been invalid for other reasons which we don't know, but we don't have enough information to determine that for ourselves, even though we know that she is an unbeliever.

[SarahMckay]

PMA, Positive mental attitude