Why is this so difficult for me?

[rmcbdd14]

 

I posted awhile back and got very good advice.  Advice that actually made sense to me.  However, I am still in pain and still stuck and not moving forward.  Maybe someone can give me some words of encouragement.  I will recant what I posted a few months ago so you understand why I am being tormented emotionally. Plus, I need to add some things that recently happened.

I have been married for over 20 years.  I have two daughters.  3 years ago... I found out that my husband watched porn and was visiting strip clubs behind my back with his "guy" friends.  He hid this from me and went to strip clubs throughout our entire marriage with his friends (never alone). I also found out that he has had "full contact" lap dances where the stripper is nude (only with a G-string on) and he fondled their breasts during the lap dance with his mouth and hands. 

I am beside myself.  I had to dig and find the truth. He has never admitted anything to me.  He has never confessed.  I had to find out through email, and from his friends accidently spilling the beans.  My husband only will admit to going to 3 strip clubs. (Yeah right).  I also found out that his favorite hang out place was Hooters (credit card bills).

This has deeply disturbed and hurt me very much. He knew I was against this type of activity.  I am upset because he has hid this from me for years.

We have been to counseling.  But that hasn't helped.  One counselor told him to take a lie detector test which he did. He failed. He failed.  He took the test again and past. He took it for the 3rd time and passed. (Could he of paid off the polygrapher?)

I know this sounds unreal but this is the truth.  I think the first test he took was the truth, because I think I made the polygraph examiner biased. I kept sending him emails that my husband would never do that to me... He was a good guy and must of been nervous taking the test.  ( He flunked the question about having sexual contact with another woman). He also flunked the question about getting a lap dance, touching stripper's breasts, and going to more than 3 strip clubs.  I was devastated.

Since this discovery my husband has said sorry. He went to counseling and stopped going to these places. He has shared all passwords with me. He is spending more time with me instead of with his friends. He stopped going out with his friends that go to strip clubs.  He told me he has told me the truth and I know about everything that he has done.  He said he has never cheated on me. 

I can not forget or forgive what he has done.  I think about it all the time.  I have been diagnosed with depression, anxiety and Post Traumatic Stress disorder because of what he did.  I am still angry with him.  We fight constantly and it has become physical.  He screams in my face, calls me names and pushes me when I question him, or tell him how bad he has hurt me, and damaged our marriage.  I have been making him feel bad about what he has done and I don't let him forget it.  I tell him that he is a bad husband for what he did to me.  I ask him all the time if I know the entire truth, because I still don't believe him. I still feel like he is lying to me.  I think he is hiding stuff from me. I am upset because he won't admit to how many strip clubs he has been to, or how many lap dances he has had.  He actually refuses to admit that he has ever had a lap dance.  He says he never did. He said he only got stripper's boobs in his face.  However,  when I look at all the facts (his friends got lap dances, he hid his clothes from me and refused to have me wash them). etc... I am pretty sure he has had a lap dance.

I have been thinking about getting a divorce, because I don't think I can forgive him.  I have good days and bad days.  He took our marriage for granted and betrayed my trust.  What hurts the most is that I never suspected anything, because I trusted him.  He never seemed like the type of guy that would do this type of stuff. He seemed to be a loyal husband.  I am appalled that he has behaved in this way and I now believe that he was unhappy with how I look.  Obviously, I wasn't pretty enough for him.  I have so many hang-ups and trust issues.  I don't want a "Perfect" husband. I want an "Honest" husband.  I can feel that he is still lying to me.

Is this enough to get a divorce?  Will this ever get better?  I am so hurt and betrayed. I am questioning his love for me.  He has been trying to make things better, but now it's been 3 long years and he is very frustrated that I don't get over this and forgive him.

I need advice and prayers.  Thank you!

[johndoo]

Even though you are hurt, you can choose to forgive.
You can quit beating him up over it.
You can quit yelling at each other.
You can show love and not hate.
You are choosing to perpetuate the problem
If you want to stay married, change your attitude and your behavior.
You have a right to feel hurt.
You don't have a right to continue to punish him.
Some would say that you could justify divorce but that it isn't a reason to go through with it.
You must want to preserve the marriage or you wouldn't have stuck around for the last 3 years.
If you want to make it better, start changing your actions.

[Charming Anarchist]

Why is this so difficult for me?

Probably because you are not telling us the entire story. 

Clearly, your husband needs more sex.  You mention that you have hang-ups but you never say what they are.  So, I have to ask:  Did you ever refuse to have sex with your husband? 

[chosenone]

Why is this so difficult for me?

Probably because you are not telling us the entire story. 

Clearly, your husband needs more sex.  You mention that you have hang-ups but you never say what they are.  So, I have to ask:  Did you ever refuse to have sex with your husband? 

Are you kidding? SO men only have lap dances and go to strip clubs because they arent having enough sex? What rubbish. Men do it because they are lusting after other women and sinning, it has NOTHING to do with the spouses, all to do with the man and his choices. Nothing like blaming the other spouse for your own sins is there. 

rmc

Do you have a good church? Is there someone there you can go to who can listen to you and pray with you about this? Someone you can go to to have some ministry?I think you need help with this.

Understandably your trust has been shattered and even though he says he hasnt cheated, touching another woman's breasts and being that intimate is actually cheating in many ways. I do believe that you have reason to end the marriage because the word Jesus uses for a reason to divorce is 'pornea' with means sexual immorality, however, is that really what you want?

I honestly think that you both need help with this. He needs to be seeing a mature godly man at the church to make sure he is being honest, and for accountability, and you need to see a woman to give you support. Maybe a different marriage counselor would help as well.

The thing is that you have to decide what you want to do. Whether you stay or not, at some point you will need to forgive and let it go, but even more so if you stay. I think that after you have had some help prayer and support that will be possible, but only with Gods help. Yes it is hard and painful, that's why God warns so much against such betrayal, but the present situation is helping no one, and must be awful for the children as well. PLease get some help from your church

[MeMyself]

Clearly, your husband needs more sex.  You mention that you have hang-ups but you never say what they are.  So, I have to ask:  Did you ever refuse to have sex with your husband? 

Clearly you know nothing about this complex issue. 

Men view porn to escape, its like drugs or drinking.

Many men are not turned down, but do the turning down because they have just indulged themselves...

[DaveW]

Clearly you know nothing about this complex issue.

Complex issue - yes.  Too complex for anyone here to give a simple answer like the wife is not giving enough sex or the husband is just lusting. Neither may be the case or both may be the case.  We do not have all the details.

This couple needs some serious biblical marriage counseling NOW. A well trained biblical counselor can dig into those areas and find out EXACTLY what is going on and deal with it accordingly.  (of course any counseling's success relies on complete cooperation from the counselees)

ETA:

Besides, the thought that the wife may not be "giving out" enough sex throws the whole biblical sexual ethic on its head.  This is the ethic our Lord and the Apostles were all raised with:

Sex is to be a wife's RIGHT and a husband's RESPONSIBILITY.

[MeMyself]

Clearly you know nothing about this complex issue.

Complex issue - yes.  Too complex for anyone here to give a simple answer like the wife is not giving enough sex or the husband is just lusting. Neither may be the case or both may be the case.  We do not have all the details.

This couple needs some serious biblical marriage counseling NOW. A well trained biblical counselor can dig into those areas and find out EXACTLY what is going on and deal with it accordingly.  (of course any counseling's success relies on complete cooperation from the counselees)

I agree. I was shocked to discover the issue was far deeper than lust and sexual desire not being met.  It is a deep seeded issued for men and the hurt attacks the deep roots of a woman's value and worth.

[DaveW]

I agree. I was shocked to discover the issue was far deeper than lust and sexual desire not being met.

For some; most probably.  Perhaps for others it IS only about unmet desires.  Each case must be evaluated individually.

It is a deep seeded issued for men

Again, this applies for some.  But the longer it goes on unchecked, the deeper it goes.

But we now (thanks to the internet and changing society attitudes) have women who are just as addicted to porn as men can get.  So it can be deep seated for women as well.

the hurt attacks the deep roots of a woman's value and worth.

I can absolutely believe that.  And that would be in almost all cases. The only exceptions being where the woman really did not care about it one way or the other.

[MeMyself]

I agree. I was shocked to discover the issue was far deeper than lust and sexual desire not being met.

For some; most probably.  Perhaps for others it IS only about unmet desires.  Each case must be evaluated individually.

It is a deep seeded issued for men

Again, this applies for some.  But the longer it goes on unchecked, the deeper it goes.

But we now (thanks to the internet and changing society attitudes) have women who are just as addicted to porn as men can get.  So it can be deep seated for women as well.

the hurt attacks the deep roots of a woman's value and worth.

I can absolutely believe that.  And that would be in almost all cases. The only exceptions being where the woman really did not care about it one way or the other.

Yes, I was speaking in general terms. In general what I said is true, but of course there are always exceptions.

[rmcbdd14]

I read everyone's responses. Thank you for your input and feedback.  I will try to answer everyone's questions.

For many years I have felt that he didn't desire me, because he was rarely interested in having sex.  I have a much higher sex drive than he does.  I have never turned him down for making love but he has with me.  I used to think he had a low testosterone level, but after finding out about the porn and strip clubs, I now believe he was relieving his sexual desires in other forms (masturbating to porn). 

I feel betrayed, rejected, and angry.

We are both Christians. 

[rmcbdd14]

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that my husband is very hot tempered.  He gets angry very easily.  I have begged him to go seek help for this, but he refuses.

I think the Male Counselor we had that told him to take a Lie Detector Test was an idiot. He did more harm than good, because it opened up a can of worms.  But, I can understand why he said this.  My husband kept switching his stories, trickling the truth and he actually told me that he lied to me to see if I could tell when he lies and when he doesn't lie!!!  So, my husband is used to lying to me.

Reflecting on how he has treated me, I do believe he is emotionally abusive & verbally abusive to me.

I take marriage seriously, and this is why I have not filed for divorce yet.  One of my girls is in college and the other one is in high school.  We have been living in a very unhappy home for the past 3 years since I discovered about his secret activities.

My husband has took me for granted.  I see that he is now recognizing his mistakes and trying to fix things.  However, i am now dealing with depression, anxiety and PTSD from his emotional abuse. 

He actually ripped off my wedding ring, through it against the floor and stomped on it till it broke.  This was over a year ago and he never replaced it.  I have bruises on my leg from when he held me against the wall with his leg and arms just last week.  He has ripped off my shirt, screamed in my face and called me horrible names.

I am becoming emotionally detached from this marriage now.  I am questioning why I am still in it.  Do I even want to be married anymore?  I am currently not working due to my depression.

I have been through a lot.  I don't think I can handle much more.  I value marriage and this is why I am holding on.  I have serious trust issues.  It is sad that this is how our marriage ended up.  I am not sure if it can still be saved???

Please help.

[chosenone]

I read everyone's responses. Thank you for your input and feedback.  I will try to answer everyone's questions.

For many years I have felt that he didn't desire me, because he was rarely interested in having sex.  I have a much higher sex drive than he does.  I have never turned him down for making love but he has with me.  I used to think he had a low testosterone level, but after finding out about the porn and strip clubs, I now believe he was relieving his sexual desires in other forms (masturbating to porn). 

I feel betrayed, rejected, and angry.

We are both Christians. 

Men who regularly masturbate to porn often loose interest in normal healthy sex with their partners. Thats one of the terrible effects it has, and many marriages have failed because of porn use.

To be honest,  from what you have said in your last 2 posts, you have every right and need to separate until he agrees to get help with his anger and violence and abusive attitudes. IF he gets help and works on it all for a long period of time, you can maybe think of gradually reconciling, but if he doesn't then stay away. No one should have to put up with such behavior, not you and not your children.  I am not surprised that you are so hurt and angry.

Do you have a good supportive church?  If not please go and find one.

[Charming Anarchist]

For many years I have felt that he didn't desire me, because he was rarely interested in having sex.  I have a much higher sex drive than he does.  I have never turned him down for making love but he has with me. 

These are critical details.  They make the difference. 
Men who love their wives do not behave that way. 

Is this enough to get a divorce? 

Yes, it is now. 

Will this ever get better?  I am so hurt and betrayed. I am questioning his love for me. 

No, it will not get better.  You have been betrayed.  You should feel angry.  I do not believe he really loves you and he probably never really did. 

He broke the marriage vow and the covenant.  You have put up with MORE than enough.  In my church, you have grounds for annulment.  Refusal to have sex in marriage like that is infidelity. 

[chosenone]

For many years I have felt that he didn't desire me, because he was rarely interested in having sex.  I have a much higher sex drive than he does.  I have never turned him down for making love but he has with me. 

These are critical details.  They make the difference. 
Men who love their wives do not behave that way. 

Is this enough to get a divorce? 

Yes, it is now. 

Will this ever get better?  I am so hurt and betrayed. I am questioning his love for me. 

No, it will not get better.  You have been betrayed.  You should feel angry.  I do not believe he really loves you and he probably never really did. 

He broke the marriage vow and the covenant.  You have put up with MORE than enough.  In my church, you have grounds for annulment.  Refusal to have sex in marriage like that is infidelity. 

Legally, you can only get an annulment if there has been no sex at all.

[Charming Anarchist]

Legally, you can only get an annulment if there has been no sex at all.

Legally?   What do you mean by that? 

I suggest that the Opening Poster takes this issue directly to her pastor, priest or preacher and demands answers.  Not all churches are the same. 

[chosenone]

Legally, you can only get an annulment if there has been no sex at all.

Legally?   What do you mean by that? 

I suggest that the Opening Poster takes this issue directly to her pastor, priest or preacher and demands answers.  Not all churches are the same. 

Legally as in the laws of the country. If there has been no sexual intercourse, you can get an annulment as opposed to a  divorce.

[AVZ]

We are both Christians. 

Well, if both of you are Christians, then he should stop messing around and you should forgive him.
So how do you guys measure up to your claim to be Christians?

[MeMyself]

We are both Christians. 

Well, if both of you are Christians, then he should stop messing around and you should forgive him.
So how do you guys measure up to your claim to be Christians?

Wow.  Forgiving him doesn't necessarily mean they reconcile.  Reconciliation will require work in this case.  Its not just as easy as "stop that! Forgive! Move on!"

Christians have real struggles, and slip ups and failures. 

[Charming Anarchist]

Legally as in the laws of the country.

I thought we were talking about the marriage covenant. 

The marriage laws of her country are irrelevent and arbitrary.  Since we are communicating through the internet, I presume we are all talking about universal Christian principles.  None of us can possibly be aware of the vast plethora of different marriage laws throughout the planet.  They are not even relevent to the OP's situation. 

If there has been no sexual intercourse, you can get an annulment as opposed to a  divorce.

Depending on the church, there are other reasons to recognize the nullity of a marriage and the OP's situation is one of them. 

[chosenone]

Legally as in the laws of the country.

I thought we were talking about the marriage covenant. 

The marriage laws of her country are irrelevent and arbitrary.  Since we are communicating through the internet, I presume we are all talking about universal Christian principles.  None of us can possibly be aware of the vast plethora of different marriage laws throughout the planet.  They are not even relevent to the OP's situation. 

If there has been no sexual intercourse, you can get an annulment as opposed to a  divorce.

Depending on the church, there are other reasons to recognize the nullity of a marriage and the OP's situation is one of them. 

We all have to abide by the laws of our land. Depriving another of much sex is disobedient to God, and mean and cruel, but I cant agree that its reason for divorce, or that an annulment is possible.  I have never heard any church teach otherwise.

[MrsKHicks]

I think this post speaks more volumes than the original post. If he is abusive I do not think God calls us to stand under abuse and accept it blindly. If he truly wants to change I would highly encourage you to speak to your pastors and ask their advice. Or a christian marriage counselor. Someone who is on the side of marriage, and knows Gods will for marriage, and can guide you through this. I would think a separation period while you both work on yourselves, and then come together to work on your marriage, would be something that may help.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that my husband is very hot tempered.  He gets angry very easily.  I have begged him to go seek help for this, but he refuses.

I think the Male Counselor we had that told him to take a Lie Detector Test was an idiot. He did more harm than good, because it opened up a can of worms.  But, I can understand why he said this.  My husband kept switching his stories, trickling the truth and he actually told me that he lied to me to see if I could tell when he lies and when he doesn't lie!!!  So, my husband is used to lying to me.

Reflecting on how he has treated me, I do believe he is emotionally abusive & verbally abusive to me.

I take marriage seriously, and this is why I have not filed for divorce yet.  One of my girls is in college and the other one is in high school.  We have been living in a very unhappy home for the past 3 years since I discovered about his secret activities.

My husband has took me for granted.  I see that he is now recognizing his mistakes and trying to fix things.  However, i am now dealing with depression, anxiety and PTSD from his emotional abuse. 

He actually ripped off my wedding ring, through it against the floor and stomped on it till it broke.  This was over a year ago and he never replaced it.  I have bruises on my leg from when he held me against the wall with his leg and arms just last week.  He has ripped off my shirt, screamed in my face and called me horrible names.

I am becoming emotionally detached from this marriage now.  I am questioning why I am still in it.  Do I even want to be married anymore?  I am currently not working due to my depression.

I have been through a lot.  I don't think I can handle much more.  I value marriage and this is why I am holding on.  I have serious trust issues.  It is sad that this is how our marriage ended up.  I am not sure if it can still be saved???

Please help.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

He clearly wanted to continue the relationship, or he wouldn't have taken a polygraph test.  Does he still?

More to the point, though - Do you still want to be with him?  Sure doesn't seem like it.

Is fear of the unknown is all that is keeping you two together?  Time to be brave and make the jump?

Jarrod

[Goshin]

We have been to counseling.  But that hasn't helped.  One counselor told him to take a lie detector test which he did. He failed. He failed.  He took the test again and past. He took it for the 3rd time and passed. (Could he of paid off the polygrapher?)

I know this sounds unreal but this is the truth.  I think the first test he took was the truth, because I think I made the polygraph examiner biased. I kept sending him emails that my husband would never do that to me... He was a good guy and must of been nervous taking the test.  ( He flunked the question about having sexual contact with another woman). He also flunked the question about getting a lap dance, touching stripper's breasts, and going to more than 3 strip clubs.  I was devastated.

Google "lie detector countermeasures". If he failed the first test then passed, he may have done some research on countermeasures before taking it.

I took one when I was in the Army at a school where they taught people how to conduct a polygraph. I was told to think of a number between 1 and 10, and say no each time they asked me if that was the number I was thinking of so they could get a baseline on me. I could feel my heart start pounding when I lied about the number I was thinking about, but some of the test questions I lied about came back as true, and some I told the truth about came back as lies. I didn't use any of these supposed countermeasures, can't say for certain if they work or not, or how reliable a polygraph is in reality. AFAIK, they don't allow them as evidence in court..

All that aside, I wouldn't put up with the physical, or mental, abuse like you describe. How you handle it is not for me to say.