Sacraments and Grace

[kensington]

I answered that question.  You need to read it again. 

But, it doesn't matter really at this point.  You keep posting CC dogma as fact and it's not, most is not backed up by any scripture.  I answered what Grace was and was not, and I gave you scripture.  Okay... maybe you aren't rejecting it, maybe you just aren't seeing it. 

"Grace is the favor of God which He freely gives and we cannot earn it or merit it"... 

[winsome]

 

I answered that question.  You need to read it again.

  I answered what Grace was and was not, and I gave you scripture.  Okay... maybe you aren't rejecting it, maybe you just aren't seeing it.

Kensington,

In my last two posts to you on the nature of grace I gave you twelve quotes from scrioture.

In your last two posts to me in reply you gave me just one and that wasn't about grace.

In the whole thread you have only posted 8 quotes from scripture.

"Grace is the favor of God which He freely gives and we cannot earn it or merit it"...

You haven't answered it. You have just repeated your original statement.

Here are my questions again
1. What does this favour actually consist of?
Does it mean he just looks kindly upon us from a distance, like benignly smiling at the efforts of a toddler trying to walk?
or
2. Does it mean he actually does something to us/for us? If the latter – what?
 
What is your answer?

What does God actually give us freely that makes difference to our lives? Anything?

But, it doesn't matter really at this point.  You keep posting CC dogma as fact and it's not, most is not backed up by any scripture.

I gave you scripture. Did you not read it?

Here is another one.

[The Lord] said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (2Cor 12:9)

What is this grace of Jesus. Is it just a kindly look from Jesus.? Or is it something real and active?

Or don't you know. Are you just giving me Protestant dogma?


kensington,

Just for your information. In this thread I have made 19 posts with 25 scriptuures. That more than one per post

You have made 12 posts with 8 scriptures. That is less than one per post.

[skeeter]

kensington,

Just for your information. In this thread I have made 19 posts with 25 scriptuures. That more than one per post

You have made 12 posts with 8 scriptures. That is less than one per post.

is there a contest going on regarding who quotes the most scriptures?

[winsome]

is there a contest going on regarding who quotes the most scriptures?

No, but kensington says things like: " You keep posting CC dogma as fact and it's not, most is not backed up by any scripture."

When in reality it's kensington who doesn't back up her posts with scripture.

[mclees8]

Winsome
I know this is not the whole of what you are after. In this case with Paul His infirmity is not defined for us It was something God allowed  to hinder him to keep Him humble Perhaps you could define this grace for us.

[winsome]

Winsome
I know this is not the whole of what you are after. In this case with Paul His infirmity is not defined for us It was something God allowed  to hinder him to keep Him humble Perhaps you could define this grace for us.

Since we don't know what Paul's "thorn"  that would be speculation. What we can draw out from this scripture though is that God's grace helps us in our weaknesses. We are all weak in different ways.

As I said earlier:
Actual grace is given to strengthen us for actions here. We are then relying on God's strength not our own.
and
To live the sort of life that pleases God, to live a life worthy of the Lord, bearing fruit in every good work, we need God's grace. We cannot do it by our own strength.

I can't see anything controversial in that.

As Paul said in 1Cor 2:3-5)
And I was with you in weakness and in much fear and trembling; and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

[mclees8]

Winsome
I know this is not the whole of what you are after. In this case with Paul His infirmity is not defined for us It was something God allowed  to hinder him to keep Him humble Perhaps you could define this grace for us.



Since we don't know what Paul's "thorn"  that would be speculation. What we can draw out from this scripture though is that God's grace helps us in our weaknesses. We are all weak in different ways.

As I said earlier:
Actual grace is given to strengthen us for actions here. We are then relying on God's strength not our own.
and
To live the sort of life that pleases God, to live a life worthy of the Lord, bearing fruit in every good work, we need God's grace. We cannot do it by our own strength.

I can't see anything controversial in that.

As Paul said in 1Cor 2:3-5)
And I was with you in weakness and in much fear and trembling; and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

I agree with your assumption of this. Paul weakness is not defined so that this same grace can be applied tot the weaknesses in all of us. When we are weak He is then made strong. This is to keep us all humble praying for his grace always. In this His grace is as a covering 

[kensington]

Quote from: kensington

I answered that question.  You need to read it again.

  I answered what Grace was and was not, and I gave you scripture.  Okay... maybe you aren't rejecting it, maybe you just aren't seeing it.


Kensington,

In my last two posts to you on the nature of grace I gave you twelve quotes from scrioture.

In your last two posts to me in reply you gave me just one and that wasn't about grace.

In the whole thread you have only posted 8 quotes from scripture.



Quote from: kensington

"Grace is the favor of God which He freely gives and we cannot earn it or merit it"...



You haven't answered it. You have just repeated your original statement.

Here are my questions again
1. What does this favour actually consist of?
Does it mean he just looks kindly upon us from a distance, like benignly smiling at the efforts of a toddler trying to walk?
or
2. Does it mean he actually does something to us/for us? If the latter – what?
 
What is your answer?

What does God actually give us freely that makes difference to our lives? Anything?




Quote from: kensington

But, it doesn't matter really at this point.  You keep posting CC dogma as fact and it's not, most is not backed up by any scripture.



I gave you scripture. Did you not read it?

Here is another one.

[The Lord] said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (2Cor 12:9)

What is this grace of Jesus. Is it just a kindly look from Jesus.? Or is it something real and active?

Or don't you know. Are you just giving me Protestant dogma?


kensington,

Just for your information. In this thread I have made 19 posts with 25 scriptuures. That more than one per post

You have made 12 posts with 8 scriptures. That is less than one per post.


I repeated what I said... because that is what Grace is.  I answered the same question with the same answer.  Just because you ask over and over does not change the answer.  The answer to your question is the same.

Grace is the unearned favor of God. We cannot do extra acts in order to get more or receive more.  Like manna, He gives us what we need for the day, and His mercy is new every morning. 

This "merit" system you think He works on... is fallacy.  The way you work the merit grace system...  you imply that someone who does more sacraments or acts is somehow afforded more grace than someone who doesn't.  But we know that is not true.  Each is given what they need from our generous God.  What you do with that grace is up to you.

But, you cannot tell me that someone like your Mother Teresa was afforded more grace than the simple man or woman who obeys the call of God on their life and walks their faith walk daily.  Where is that in the Bible?  We know that this isn't so because Jesus said it wasn't. 

The number of scriptures we post makes no difference.  It only takes one to prove a point.  I posted mine you posted yours.  I don't believe you proved me wrong on any level.  Grace is given to us freely by God.  He gives His favor freely.  No merits needed.  The stumbling, hurting, needy Christian receives as much grace as the person who goes to mass every day. They are both given what they need for the day.  Just as the word says.  You do not get extra grace points for doing more acts. 

Our "righteous acts" are defined in Revelation 19:8.   "It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

This is what our righteous acts based on a foundation of Christ will bring us.  Not more grace.  His grace is sufficient for us, new every morning, no tally kept.  Surely, your church teaches that God keeps no tallies. He does not keep score. So how do you keep score of how many grace merits you have earned. Do you know?  Who decides? Where is the tally kept?  He gives you grace as you need it, not as you earn it. I'm pretty shocked you still hold this "earned grace" stance.  Being pleasing to God does not mean you merit more grace or grace points.  No scripture you have given implies that it does.  Your posting more passages, does not mean you proved your point. 

I posted no more, because I needed no more.  You did not prove your point of grace merits with any passage you posted.

Jesus said in Luke 17:10, "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."

It's your duty to obey God and do the things He commands.  Expecting no merits of any kind in return, other than to hear, "Well done thy good and faithful servant"...  NO WHERE does it say...  "Well done, more merits of grace may you have."  NO WHERE.  Yes, I know, if you twist the scriptures enough you can convince yourself that you can earn grace merits, but it's fallacy