The Spiritual and Corporal Works of Mercy .

[Paulus]

The Works of Mercy

            The Corporal Works of Mercy
                 To feed the hungry
                To give drink to the thirsty.
                To clothe the naked.
                To visit and ransom the captives.
                To shelter the homeless.
                To visit the sick.
                To bury the dead.

            The Spiritual Works of Mercy
                To admonish sinners.
                To instruct the ignorant.
                To counsel the doubtful.
                To comfort the sorrowful.
                To bear wrongs patiently.
                To forgive all injuries.
                To pray for the living and the dead .

Jesus insists upon the necessity of observing the first six corporal works of mercy:
" Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'

" Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

One who devoted her life to fulfilling the works of mercy was the nurse and nun Saint Maria Boscardin .

St Maria was born in 1888 to a poor Italian family in Brendola. Her father was a violent alcoholic. She was considered not very bright at school, and was called a 'goose' by the local clergy. In 1904, she joined the sisters of St Dorothy and worked in the kitchens and laundry. In 1907, when she took her final vows she became a nurse in the children's diphtheria ward.

St Maria nursed soldiers during the First World War. When the hospital at Treviso was bombed she stayed on to look after patients too sick to be moved. Eventually she was evacuated with the soldiers and they all loved her for her kindness and her quiet and cheerful manner. After the war she returned to the children's diphtheria ward and contracted the disease herself.

She died on this day in 1922. A memorial plaque described her as a 'chosen soul of heroic goodness, an angelic alleviator of human suffering in this place'.

Her tomb at Vicenza soon became the centre of pilgrimage and miracles. She was beatified in 1952 and canonised in 1962. She is said to have resembled St Theresa of Lisieux, whose spiritual teaching she followed.

[kensington]

Jesus did not pray for the dead, nor does the word of God give that instruction. 

[Paulus]

Saint Cecilia was another Christian famed for fulfilling the works of mercy , most notably burying the dead . St Cecilia was a Roman Christian from a patrician family who lived in the 2nd or 3rd century. She had decided to remain single and devote her life to God, but was forced into an arranged marriage. While the wedding guests danced at her wedding, she sat apart singing only the psalms. Valerian, her husband, turned out to be very understanding and respected her vow of virginity.

He and his brother Tiburtius were both so impressed and attracted by Cecilia's graces, eventually they were both baptised. The family devoted themselves to charitable works including obtaining the bodies of martyred Christians and giving them decent burials. When the prefect Almachius found out what they were doing, he had them arrested and tried to force them to make sacrifices to the pagan gods. One of the soldiers who had interrogated them, a man called Maximus, was so struck by their conviction, he became a Christian too. The three men were put to death together.

St Cecilia buried them in the cemetery of Praetextatus. Then she turned her home into a place of worship. When her religion was discovered Almachius ordered her death .

[kensington]

Luke 9:60, Matthew 8:22

"But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God."

[Catholica]

Jesus spoke to the dead.  He commanded Lazarus to come out.  He conversed with Moses.

[kensington]

What is your point?   The Apostle's also raised the dead.  I find that much different than praying for them.  I don't find any admonishment to pray for the dead in the Word of God... only to raise them up. 

Jesus, said what I quoted.  Did he not? 

(Hebrews 9:27)  "It is given once to man to die and then the judgment."   That's pretty clear.  No need for prayer there.

(II Corinthians 5:8) "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord"  That's pretty clear.  No need for prayer there.

Jesus did pray at the tomb of Lazarus, but notice he did not pray "for" Lazarus, he prayed to the Father so that men would hear and believe. Thanking Him. (John 11: 41-43)  He did not pray for the dead.

He did not pray for Moses. 

[Paulus]

Saint Hugh of Lincoln is another Christian who in his life fulfilled the works of mercy , visiting the sick and admonishing sinners

St.Hugh was born at Avalon in Burgundy, in 1135, but came to England at the request of King Henry II, who wanted him to found a Carthusian monastery at Witham in Somerset as part of his reparations for the murder of St Thomas Becket. St Hugh had already been a Carthusian for 17 years. He spent seven years at Witham living a quiet prayerful life.

In 1186 Hugh left the quiet monastic life to become bishop of the largest diocese in England - Lincoln.

Hugh proved to be as good a bishop as he was a monk. He fought for the common people against the king's foresters who enforced savage forest laws in the vast royal hunting grounds. At Lincoln and in Northampton he stood up to mobs rioting against the Jews. He also visited the sick, played with children and oversaw a huge rebuilding programme at Lincoln cathedral which had been damaged by an earthquake.

Hugh said he had a 'peppery' temper. His admirers said he was a 'A good man, fearless as a lion'. He calmed the anger of Richard I with a joke. He refused to pay taxes that supported a war against France.

He died at Lincoln's Inn in London in 1200. St Hugh has been been described as one of the most attractive characters of mediaeval England. John Ruskin said he was: "The most beautiful sacerdotal figure known to men in history."

In 1220 he was canonised by Pope Honorius III, the first Carthusian to receive this honour.

The Rose window, called the Dean's Eye, at Lincoln cathedral records his funeral.

Many pilgrims came to his shrine at Lincoln until the Reformation, when it was destroyed. His usual iconography is his tame swan. A picture of him at the charterhouse in Paris became a centre of pilgrimage for mothers and sick children. His white linen stole survives in the charterhouse at Parkminster in West Sussex.

[Catholica]

What is your point?   The Apostle's also raised the dead.  I find that much different than praying for them.  I don't find any admonishment to pray for the dead in the Word of God... only to raise them up. 

Jesus, said what I quoted.  Did he not? 

(Hebrews 9:27)  "It is given once to man to die and then the judgment."   That's pretty clear.  No need for prayer there.

(II Corinthians 5:8) "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord"  That's pretty clear.  No need for prayer there.

Jesus did pray at the tomb of Lazarus, but notice he did not pray "for" Lazarus, he prayed to the Father so that men would hear and believe. Thanking Him. (John 11: 41-43)  He did not pray for the dead.

He did not pray for Moses.

The point of your post rested on the idea that we are supposed to be like Jesus, saying that since Jesus did not pray to/for the dead, neither should we, implying that only if Jesus prayed to/for the dead then we should pray to/for the dead.

So what I'm saying is that the follow on to that is that Jesus conversed with the dead.   By your logic, so should we.   Since you aren't one to talk to the dead, then it is not a stretch to believe that even if Jesus had prayed to the dead, you still would not.  So your reasoning fails because it is inconsistent.

Besides, there's that pesky verse in Revelation 5:8 that shows the dead offering "incense" to God which explicitly is said to be "the prayers of the faithful".  If you were a first century Christian, you would better understand the genre of the book of Revelation, which is a type that uses images to teach rather than simply straightforward teaching like Paul.  Those images that John uses in Revelation were like a huge spotlight of revelation into heaven, showing through images that those who are alive in heaven are offering our prayers to God, and therefore must be receiving our prayers in order to offer them to God.

[mclees8]

The Works of Mercy

            The Corporal Works of Mercy
                 To feed the hungry
                To give drink to the thirsty.
                To clothe the naked.
                To visit and ransom the captives.
                To shelter the homeless.
                To visit the sick.
                To bury the dead.

            The Spiritual Works of Mercy
                To admonish sinners.
                To instruct the ignorant.
                To counsel the doubtful.
                To comfort the sorrowful.
                To bear wrongs patiently.
                To forgive all injuries.
                To pray for the living and the dead .

Jesus insists upon the necessity of observing the first six corporal works of mercy:
" Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'

" Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

One who devoted her life to fulfilling the works of mercy was the nurse and nun Saint Maria Boscardin .

St Maria was born in 1888 to a poor Italian family in Brendola. Her father was a violent alcoholic. She was considered not very bright at school, and was called a 'goose' by the local clergy. In 1904, she joined the sisters of St Dorothy and worked in the kitchens and laundry. In 1907, when she took her final vows she became a nurse in the children's diphtheria ward.

St Maria nursed soldiers during the First World War. When the hospital at Treviso was bombed she stayed on to look after patients too sick to be moved. Eventually she was evacuated with the soldiers and they all loved her for her kindness and her quiet and cheerful manner. After the war she returned to the children's diphtheria ward and contracted the disease herself.

She died on this day in 1922. A memorial plaque described her as a 'chosen soul of heroic goodness, an angelic alleviator of human suffering in this place'.

Her tomb at Vicenza soon became the centre of pilgrimage and miracles. She was beatified in 1952 and canonised in 1962. She is said to have resembled St Theresa of Lisieux, whose spiritual teaching she followed.

I notice that you are giving recognition to a Catholic nun who is now Called a saint. You consistently want to reflect on works of Catholics and only years later given the honor of being called St. If Maria was a true believer in Christ then she was a saint long long before the church dubbed her one. The admonition here is that we all follow the lords teaching above in the spirit.  Even thought you would not consider any Protestant believer of such virtues many have given their llfe for that witness. When would your church give them the honor of Saint. I tell you Jesus said they were saints the day they first believed.

[kensington]

I agree with Mclees8, according to the Word of God, we are all saints upon receiving salvation through Jesus Christ.

To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:  (I Corinthians 1:2

http://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html

The word "saint" comes from the Greek word hagios, which means "consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." It is almost always used in the plural, "saints." "...Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem" (Acts 9:13). "Now as Peter was traveling through all those regions, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda" (Acts 9:32). "And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons ..." (Acts 26:10). There is only one instance of the singular use, and that is "Greet every saint in Christ Jesus..." (Philippians 4:21). In Scripture there are 67 uses of the plural "saints" compared to only one use of the singular word "saint." Even in that one instance, a plurality of saints is in view: "...every saint..." (Philippians 4:21).

The idea of the word "saints" is a group of people set apart for the Lord and His kingdom. There are three references referring to godly character of saints: "that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints ..." (Romans 16:2). "For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:12). "But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints" (Ephesians 5:3).

Therefore, scripturally speaking, the "saints" are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: "To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy..." The words "sanctified" and "holy" come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated "saints." Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints.

How does the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" compare with the biblical teaching? Not very well. In Roman Catholic theology, the saints are in heaven. In the Bible, the saints are on earth. In Roman Catholic teaching, a person does not become a saint unless he/she is "beatified" or "canonized" by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Roman Catholic practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances, worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship, and pray to God alone.

[Catholica]

kensington and mclees, how little you understand Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church also teaches that we are called saints on earth.  That's why they call it the "communion of saints".  These saints are those who are living in Christ and those who have died in Christ but still live.

This teaching from the Bible is in complete accord with biblical usage of the word "saint".

[Paulus]

Ministering to prisoners , reforming sinners , Saint Edmund Campion is one of England's finest examples of one who lived the works of mercy .

A Jesuit priest and martyr , Edmund Campion was born around 1540 . He was the son of a London bookseller and was educated at Christ's hospital. He won a scholarship to St John's College Oxford in 1557 where he was a brilliant and popular student. When Queen Elizabeth I visited Oxford in 1566 he was chosen by the university as orator to welcome her.

Edmund was ordained as an Anglican deacon in 1569, but openly expressed his uncertainty about his religious beliefs. After a spell in Ireland where he helped found a university (later Trinity College) and wrote a history of the country, he returned to England in 1571 and then went to France to go to the English College in Douai where he professed his Catholic faith and was ordained subdeacon.

He left for Rome later that year to join the Jesuits. After his novitiate at Brunn, he taught at the Jesuit College in Prague. He was ordained priest there in 1578. In 1580 Edmund and another priest Robert Persons were chosen to start a mission in England. On his journey he visited Charles Borromeo in Milan. He arrived at Dover disguised as a jewel merchant.

Edmund first ministered to Catholic prisoners and wrote a document in which he challenged the Privy Council, describing his mission as 'one of free cost to preach the Gospels, minister the Sacraments, instruct the simple, reform sinners, to refute errors, in brief to cry alarm spiritual against foul vice and proud ignorance, wherewith many of my dear countrymen are abused.'

His attractive personality, courage, eloquence and learning gave new heart to Catholics struggling to keep their faith in England. But his charismatic preaching was something the authorities could not ignore.

Often in disguise, Campion travelled throughout Lancashire, Yorkshire and the Midlands, preaching, celebrating Mass and administering the Sacraments. He wrote a pamphlet openly challenging Protestants to debate with him. At a service at St Mary's Church in Oxford 400 copies were secretly distributed.

Campion was finally arrested in Lyford Grange in Berkshire. He was taken to the Tower of London and tortured, but refused to give up his faith. On 14 November he was indicted with others in Westminster Hall on the fabricated charge of trying to incite a rebellion. In spite of his able defence, the jury found him guilty of treason and he was condemned to death.

When Campion heard the sentence he said: " In condemning us you condemn all your own ancestors all the ancient bishops and kings, all that was once the glory of England."

Campion stressed his loyalty to the Queen. His only offence was his religion.

With Alexander Briant and Ralph Sherwin he was hung drawn and quartered at Tyburn  in 1581.

It has been said that when he died, the Elizabethan age lost one of its most brilliant thinkers and writers.

Edmund Campion was canonised by Blessed Paul VI as one of the 40 martyrs of England and Wales in 1970.

[mclees8]

kensington and mclees, how little you understand Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church also teaches that we are called saints on earth.  That's why they call it the "communion of saints".  These saints are those who are living in Christ and those who have died in Christ but still live.

This teaching from the Bible is in complete accord with biblical usage of the word "saint".

We always hear about how little we understand about Catholicism.  You always come up with this thing as if we just got off the boat. Liston Kinsington and I have been on this board for years and we still see the same issues. Now you come up with we just don't understand. How come this understanding has not come up long time ago. Oh Im sure you will say this and that. Does the Catholic church ever recognize the protestant saints who have had admirable virtues to be canonized.
Please explain if you say all believers are saints why is one then canonized to be a saint. You don't canonize Protestants. Are they not worthy to be saints?  I guess its because we just don't brag enough

[Paulus]

kensington and mclees, how little you understand Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church also teaches that we are called saints on earth.  That's why they call it the "communion of saints".  These saints are those who are living in Christ and those who have died in Christ but still live.

This teaching from the Bible is in complete accord with biblical usage of the word "saint".

You don't canonize Protestants. Are they not worthy to be saints? 

Many of the saints existed within the Catholic Church centuries before anyone ever heard of Protestantism .

It has never been the practice of the Church to canonize anyone who is not a Catholic .

If you are so concerned about the matter , you can always get on to the Protestant authorities and persuade them to canonize some Protestants . 

Have you a problem with Edmund Campion ?

Ministering to prisoners , reforming sinners , Saint Edmund Campion is one of England's finest examples of one who lived the works of mercy .

A Jesuit priest and martyr , Edmund Campion was born around 1540 . He was the son of a London bookseller and was educated at Christ's hospital. He won a scholarship to St John's College Oxford in 1557 where he was a brilliant and popular student. When Queen Elizabeth I visited Oxford in 1566 he was chosen by the university as orator to welcome her.

Edmund was ordained as an Anglican deacon in 1569, but openly expressed his uncertainty about his religious beliefs. After a spell in Ireland where he helped found a university (later Trinity College) and wrote a history of the country, he returned to England in 1571 and then went to France to go to the English College in Douai where he professed his Catholic faith and was ordained subdeacon.

He left for Rome later that year to join the Jesuits. After his novitiate at Brunn, he taught at the Jesuit College in Prague. He was ordained priest there in 1578. In 1580 Edmund and another priest Robert Persons were chosen to start a mission in England. On his journey he visited Charles Borromeo in Milan. He arrived at Dover disguised as a jewel merchant.

Edmund first ministered to Catholic prisoners and wrote a document in which he challenged the Privy Council, describing his mission as 'one of free cost to preach the Gospels, minister the Sacraments, instruct the simple, reform sinners, to refute errors, in brief to cry alarm spiritual against foul vice and proud ignorance, wherewith many of my dear countrymen are abused.'

His attractive personality, courage, eloquence and learning gave new heart to Catholics struggling to keep their faith in England. But his charismatic preaching was something the authorities could not ignore.

Often in disguise, Campion travelled throughout Lancashire, Yorkshire and the Midlands, preaching, celebrating Mass and administering the Sacraments. He wrote a pamphlet openly challenging Protestants to debate with him. At a service at St Mary's Church in Oxford 400 copies were secretly distributed.

Campion was finally arrested in Lyford Grange in Berkshire. He was taken to the Tower of London and tortured, but refused to give up his faith. On 14 November he was indicted with others in Westminster Hall on the fabricated charge of trying to incite a rebellion. In spite of his able defence, the jury found him guilty of treason and he was condemned to death.

When Campion heard the sentence he said: " In condemning us you condemn all your own ancestors all the ancient bishops and kings, all that was once the glory of England."

Campion stressed his loyalty to the Queen. His only offence was his religion.

With Alexander Briant and Ralph Sherwin he was hung drawn and quartered at Tyburn  in 1581.

It has been said that when he died, the Elizabethan age lost one of its most brilliant thinkers and writers.

Edmund Campion was canonised by Blessed Paul VI as one of the 40 martyrs of England and Wales in 1970.

[kensington]

It has never been the practice of the Church to canonize anyone who is not a Catholic .

If you are so concerned about the matter , you can always get on to the Protestant authorities and persuade them to canonize some Protestants . 

But, it was the practice of Christ himself to make us saints.  No need to be Catholic. NONE.  I don't need permission from the Catholics to know I am called a Saint by God.  His word tells me so. 

Truly born again Protestants are already saints.  God Himself said so...  we have no need to be approved by some man counsel somewhere who probably aren't saints of God.

Do you really think God is going to use the Catechism to decide who is a saint and who isn't?  Get a clue...  He will use the Lamb's Book of Life, according to the Word of God.  (Revelation 21:27) 

You guys (Catholics) need to get over yourselves.  The lack of humbleness before God is astounding.  Hopefully, all that garbage will be burned off in purgatory for you.

[winsome]

It has never been the practice of the Church to canonize anyone who is not a Catholic .

If you are so concerned about the matter , you can always get on to the Protestant authorities and persuade them to canonize some Protestants . 

But, it was the practice of Christ himself to make us saints.  No need to be Catholic. NONE.  I don't need permission from the Catholics to know I am called a Saint by God.  His word tells me so. 

Truly born again Protestants are already saints.  God Himself said so...  we have no need to be approved by some man counsel somewhere who probably aren't saints of God.

Do you really think God is going to use the Catechism to decide who is a saint and who isn't?  Get a clue...  He will use the Lamb's Book of Life, according to the Word of God.  (Revelation 21:27) 

You guys (Catholics) need to get over yourselves.  The lack of humbleness before God is astounding.  Hopefully, all that garbage will be burned off in purgatory for you.

Catholica has already made the point that we are all saints (ree reply #10.)

So your protestations are just 'striving after the wind' (see Eccl 1:14)

[Paulus]

Practising the works of mercy , Saint Columban admonished sinners , including bishops .

Born in Leinster in Ireland around 543, St Columban was a monk at Bangor in County Down under St Comgall, before becoming a wandering missionary on the continent with several companions.

Passing through England and Brittany he founded the great monastery of Luxeuil in Burgundy in 591 and was abbot there for twenty years.

Columban's extremely austere rule there became very influential for a time among the rural Frankish nobility. He offended the Frankish court by criticising morals of the local church hierarchy and by his insistence on the Celtic observances in his houses. He was forced into exile in 610. In 612 he founded the monastery of Bobbio in Lombardy in Italy where he died in 615. Some of his writings survive.

[mclees8]

kensington and mclees, how little you understand Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church also teaches that we are called saints on earth.  That's why they call it the "communion of saints".  These saints are those who are living in Christ and those who have died in Christ but still live.

This teaching from the Bible is in complete accord with biblical usage of the word "saint".

You don't canonize Protestants. Are they not worthy to be saints? 

Many of the saints existed within the Catholic Church centuries before anyone ever heard of Protestantism .

It has never been the practice of the Church to canonize anyone who is not a Catholic .

If you are so concerned about the matter , you can always get on to the Protestant authorities and persuade them to canonize some Protestants . 

Have you a problem with Edmund Campion ?

Ministering to prisoners , reforming sinners , Saint Edmund Campion is one of England's finest examples of one who lived the works of mercy .

A Jesuit priest and martyr , Edmund Campion was born around 1540 . He was the son of a London bookseller and was educated at Christ's hospital. He won a scholarship to St John's College Oxford in 1557 where he was a brilliant and popular student. When Queen Elizabeth I visited Oxford in 1566 he was chosen by the university as orator to welcome her.

Edmund was ordained as an Anglican deacon in 1569, but openly expressed his uncertainty about his religious beliefs. After a spell in Ireland where he helped found a university (later Trinity College) and wrote a history of the country, he returned to England in 1571 and then went to France to go to the English College in Douai where he professed his Catholic faith and was ordained subdeacon.

He left for Rome later that year to join the Jesuits. After his novitiate at Brunn, he taught at the Jesuit College in Prague. He was ordained priest there in 1578. In 1580 Edmund and another priest Robert Persons were chosen to start a mission in England. On his journey he visited Charles Borromeo in Milan. He arrived at Dover disguised as a jewel merchant.

Edmund first ministered to Catholic prisoners and wrote a document in which he challenged the Privy Council, describing his mission as 'one of free cost to preach the Gospels, minister the Sacraments, instruct the simple, reform sinners, to refute errors, in brief to cry alarm spiritual against foul vice and proud ignorance, wherewith many of my dear countrymen are abused.'

His attractive personality, courage, eloquence and learning gave new heart to Catholics struggling to keep their faith in England. But his charismatic preaching was something the authorities could not ignore.

Often in disguise, Campion travelled throughout Lancashire, Yorkshire and the Midlands, preaching, celebrating Mass and administering the Sacraments. He wrote a pamphlet openly challenging Protestants to debate with him. At a service at St Mary's Church in Oxford 400 copies were secretly distributed.

Campion was finally arrested in Lyford Grange in Berkshire. He was taken to the Tower of London and tortured, but refused to give up his faith. On 14 November he was indicted with others in Westminster Hall on the fabricated charge of trying to incite a rebellion. In spite of his able defence, the jury found him guilty of treason and he was condemned to death.

When Campion heard the sentence he said: " In condemning us you condemn all your own ancestors all the ancient bishops and kings, all that was once the glory of England."

Campion stressed his loyalty to the Queen. His only offence was his religion.

With Alexander Briant and Ralph Sherwin he was hung drawn and quartered at Tyburn  in 1581.

It has been said that when he died, the Elizabethan age lost one of its most brilliant thinkers and writers.

Edmund Campion was canonised by Blessed Paul VI as one of the 40 martyrs of England and Wales in 1970.

Paulus there is no need for  those who are the servants of the church to canonize any believer a saint. Saint biblically is just word that recognizes one who is a believer amongst many believers who form the body of Christ. There is no use for the word saint to be used to put any other believer on some pedestal.

In the world there are military heroes. Often some are noted for their selfless act of heroism. Many are forgotten men who have fallen many years before but now they are recognized and their still Living wife may receive this honor in the form of a medal.  Often in Christianity there are those who by their exceptional life of selfless virtue earn recognition by other believes. Your story here of Edmund or others may be seen as  hero's for Christ. Jesus said their will be a crown waiting for all of us who overcome to the end.  He never said one would be recognized as of higher honor. According to the Lord not all will enter into the kingdom but those who do the will of the Father. These admonitions are mentioned in our Knew Testament just as the one that started this thread. We are all to follow these admonitions to what ever degree one is able if it is done in a  pure heart. There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh. Just as in this world one is given honors for this and that. How ever the stories do help us to be reminded of the courage and suffering of the saints who gave their lives as examples of great courage in the face of those who fail to see Christ 

The Problem here is that there is confusion about who the church is and who are fallen hero's for Christ. Certainly any who have died for his name sake is a hero for Christ even if at the moment of his death he had only  done one selfless act to give his life for another. This man may have only been a believer for a few minutes before he was ushered to heaven yet there will be the same crown given to him as the one such as Edmund who lived a more fuller life of honor for Christ. So what is Canonization of anyone except a worldly act to glorify men.

Do you think that this is unfair of the Lord?   

I tell you the truth that canonizing any one will not merit even  one over another in the Lords kingdom

Just one more thought. How many died for Christ during the persecutions of Christians by the emperors before the bishops of Rome became monarchs of the land and only then men were canonized. Was this  to glorify Christ or to glorify the RCC. Even now these threads are a Catholic brag. Certainly no glory for believers who have virtues out side Her.

[mclees8]

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a pennya a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. 8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12 † Saying, These last have wroughtb but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 † Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.      Mt 20:1-16

[winsome]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

[DaveW]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

You are fighting the spirit of the age here Winsome. The western concept of egalitarianism has no place in the church, even though many take certain verses out of context to support the idea that it does.  This leads to congregational autonomy, the doctrine that all sins are equal and the idea that once someone is saved they are immediatly complete and mature with no need for teaching or discipleship. Everything is equal.

The problem is that it is all wrong.

[Paulus]

  Even now these threads are a Catholic brag.

If these threads which show the wonders of God's grace in men and women who have cooperated with that grace are a Catholic brag , then I am happy to continue bragging about what God can achieve in us .

BLESSED BE GOD IN HIS ANGELS AND IN HIS SAINTS . 

In his love of the poor , Saint Francesco Antonio Fasani lived out the works of mercy .

A Franciscan priest born in Lucera, southeast Italy, in 1681, Francesco entered the Conventual Franciscans when he was just 14. After his ordination 10 years later, he taught philosophy to younger friars, served as guardian of his friary and later became provincial. When his term of office ended, Francesco became master of novices and finally parish priest in his hometown.

In his various ministries, he was loving, devout and penitential. He was a sought-after confessor and preacher. One witness at the canonical hearings regarding Francesco's holiness testified: "In his preaching he spoke in a familiar way, filled as he was with the love of God and neighbour; fired by the Spirit, he made use of the words and deed of Holy Scripture, stirring his listeners and moving them to do penance."

Francesco was a loyal friend of the poor, never hesitating to seek from benefactors what was needed.

When he died in Lucera, in 1742, children ran through the streets and cried out: "The saint is dead! The saint is dead!"

Francesco was canonized in 1986.

During his homily at the canonization of Francesco, Pope John Paul II reflected on John 21:15 in which Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus more than the other apostles and then tells Peter, "Feed my lambs." The Pope observed that in the final analysis human holiness is decided by love. "He [Francesco] made the love taught us by Christ the fundamental characteristic of his existence, the basic criterion of his thought and activity, the supreme summit of his aspirations."


Saint Francesco Antonio Fasani , inspire us to make the love taught us by Christ the fundamental characteristic of our existence , the basic criterion of our thoughts and activity , and the supreme summit of our aspirations .

[mclees8]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

And ?

[winsome]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

And ?

And?   

[mclees8]

  Even now these threads are a Catholic brag.

If these threads which show the wonders of God's grace in men and women who have cooperated with that grace are a Catholic brag , then I am happy to continue bragging about what God can achieve in us .

BLESSED BE GOD IN HIS ANGELS AND IN HIS SAINTS . 

In his love of the poor , Saint Francesco Antonio Fasani lived out the works of mercy .

A Franciscan priest born in Lucera, southeast Italy, in 1681, Francesco entered the Conventual Franciscans when he was just 14. After his ordination 10 years later, he taught philosophy to younger friars, served as guardian of his friary and later became provincial. When his term of office ended, Francesco became master of novices and finally parish priest in his hometown.

In his various ministries, he was loving, devout and penitential. He was a sought-after confessor and preacher. One witness at the canonical hearings regarding Francesco's holiness testified: "In his preaching he spoke in a familiar way, filled as he was with the love of God and neighbour; fired by the Spirit, he made use of the words and deed of Holy Scripture, stirring his listeners and moving them to do penance."

Francesco was a loyal friend of the poor, never hesitating to seek from benefactors what was needed.

When he died in Lucera, in 1742, children ran through the streets and cried out: "The saint is dead! The saint is dead!"

Francesco was canonized in 1986.

During his homily at the canonization of Francesco, Pope John Paul II reflected on John 21:15 in which Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus more than the other apostles and then tells Peter, "Feed my lambs." The Pope observed that in the final analysis human holiness is decided by love. "He [Francesco] made the love taught us by Christ the fundamental characteristic of his existence, the basic criterion of his thought and activity, the supreme summit of his aspirations."


Saint Francesco Antonio Fasani , inspire us to make the love taught us by Christ the fundamental characteristic of our existence , the basic criterion of our thoughts and activity , and the supreme summit of our aspirations .

Well I am not saying that their virtues were not inspirational. My point is that its always Catholic. It should be seen as inspiration to all believers. Is their not an air of  Catholic pride. I do not see them as presented impartially.  Be sure you  get a merit badge for your partial Catholic posts . There is no Catholic protestant in Gods kingdom. Paulus with all respect but your Catholic pride illuminates from you as a  giant light.

Tare down you bias and see the church From Gods eyes. 

[mclees8]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

And ?

And?   

Saying that's not true is insufficient as an answer. Live up to your own demands and state your case

[Paulus]

Paulus with all respect but your Catholic pride illuminates from you as a  giant light.

mclees , would you care to clarify what your above statement means ?

[mclees8]

Paulus with all respect but your Catholic pride illuminates from you as a  giant light.

mclees , would you care to clarify what your above statement means ?

How would you like me to clarify that? Its seen all your posts and seen in  all your comments and defenses of the RCC and their practices.   What ells can I say   Your bias and pride just is and not hid.

[kensington]

You are fighting the spirit of the age here Winsome. The western concept of egalitarianism has no place in the church, even though many take certain verses out of context to support the idea that it does.  This leads to congregational autonomy, the doctrine that all sins are equal and the idea that once someone is saved they are immediatly complete and mature with no need for teaching or discipleship. Everything is equal.

The problem is that it is all wrong.

Your idea of what happens is wrong, that is for sure.  We certainly do know the difference in a New born baby Christian and a proved mature Christian ... what kind of nonsense is this that you post?  I have never been in a body that didn't know the difference, offering teachings for baptism, new Christians, discipleship classes or bible studies and opportunities for the new to grow.  The word even instructs for the mature to teach the new..  and to teach children the word all the days of their lives. 

No one that I know of would take a newly saved Christian and give them the pulpit to shepherd a flock.  That is why churches have ordination programs that require degrees in Biblical studies.  Even the newest Sunday school teacher has to have some amount of time in study, growth and proving under their belt.

I've never heard of such nonsense.  We teach from the cradle to the grave.

[Catholica]

There will be none more recognized in heaven more over another. These ideas are of the flesh.

That's not true.

And ?

And?   

Saying that's not true is insufficient as an answer. Live up to your own demands and state your case

You made no case for your original statement.  You first.

[Paulus]

Paulus with all respect but your Catholic pride illuminates from you as a  giant light.

mclees , would you care to clarify what your above statement means ?

How would you like me to clarify that?

mclees , you can clarify your statement by saying what it means .

[kensington]

I think it's saying that by your posts, it's clear to see you take GREAT pride concerning Catholicism. 

My personal opinion is that the whole of the Catholic religion projects a haughtiness towards all other Christians.  And it shows... like a beaming light. 

II Timothy 3:5 "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power;"   

I think the Catholic religious teaching set you all up for failure..  teaching you to trust the Catechism over the word of God.  To trust your religious leaders over the Word also.  So often the teachings of the CC are in direct conflict of the word of God and you dismiss it and post some flaunt of someone you hold up as good and religious. As to prove something, or show off.   We also have examples of those who complete the word in act and love.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  All of the disciples, not just one. 

[Paulus]

I think it's saying that by your posts, it's clear to see you take GREAT pride concerning Catholicism. 

My personal opinion is that the whole of the Catholic religion projects a haughtiness towards all other Christians.  And it shows... like a beaming light. 

Of course you are entitled to your own personal opinion , but my question was addressed specifically to mclees .

[Catholica]

I think it's saying that by your posts, it's clear to see you take GREAT pride concerning Catholicism. 

My personal opinion is that the whole of the Catholic religion projects a haughtiness towards all other Christians.  And it shows... like a beaming light. 

What you are doing is projection.  Your witness:

II Timothy 3:5 "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power;"   

Haughtiness toward the Catholic religion on your part to suggest the verse somehow sums up the Catholic Church.

I think the Catholic religious teaching set you all up for failure..

More haughtiness.

teaching you to trust the Catechism over the word of God.  To trust your religious leaders over the Word also.

Haughtiness.

So often the teachings of the CC are in direct conflict of the word of God and you dismiss it

Haughtiness.

[kensington]

Not true... I said "Catholic religion" .. read it again.
'
The word of God is not haughty,  but perfect for the teaching and admonishment of the church. Any church.  I was sharing with you a verse that might get my point across.  No haughtiness at all.

How is it haughtiness to tell you what I see in a religion and their teachings?  I was specific.  That is called "confident".  I did not have a haughty spirit when I addressed what is a serious concern for me.

But, thanks for the answer.  Way to prove a point...  for me.