Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..

[chosenone]

Wow cant you see that you are the one here who is being hateful and rude? If you come to a Christian forum trying to justify your sin then of course you will get most disagreeing with you.
You seem very angry that you cant make us all go along with your opinions, but God is more important to us than political correctness.  It would be cruel for us to tell you that you lifestyle isnt harmful or damaging for you physically emotionally and spiritually.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Memyself, I haven't felt any Christlike love since you first started attacking me, and especially after I asked you to leave me alone when it became apparent that we're not going to agree on anything, and thus further conversation was useless.

If the little cartoons make you feel better, then by all means, post them everywhere you can.

[Aaron Lindahl]

chosenon... nope.  I'm not being hateful.  I shared deep and scholarly information about the original Greek and Hebrew words on this subject, and when it became apparent that I'm not changing my position, and neither are certain others on here, some people apparently cannot do the usual mature thing that is done in these situations and leave it at: "We'll have to agree to disagree."

[Aaron Lindahl]

Catholica, I've already replied to your question.  Animals eating poop or killing each other does not have anything to do with the examples of dolphins forming bonded homosexual pairs for life.

[chosenone]

chosenon... nope.  I'm not being hateful.  I shared deep and scholarly information about the original Greek and Hebrew words on this subject, and when it became apparent that I'm not changing my position, and neither are certain others on here, some people apparently cannot do the usual mature thing that is done in these situations and leave it at: "We'll have to agree to disagree."

Well I have seen some pretty rude posts from you.   Maybe we have different ideas of rudeness. 

We cant change our position when we are following God.  Its His position not ours. 

[Aaron Lindahl]

I've already stated that we'll just have to agree to disagree chosenone. God bless.

[chosenone]

Catholica, I've already replied to your question.  Animals eating poop or killing each other does not have anything to do with the examples of dolphins forming bonded homosexual pairs for life.

More attempts to justify sin.

[MeMyself]

Memyself, I haven't felt any Christlike love since you first started attacking me,

Please show me where exactly it was that I attacked you. It was not my intention to attack your person, and if I did, I was in great error and would like the opportunity to see where I did and apologize to you sincerely.

and especially after I asked you to leave me alone when it became apparent that we're not going to agree on anything, and thus further conversation was useless.

This is a message board.  Though you may not like what I have to say on this topic, it is within the rules for me to respond to the points being made.  Please try and give me the benefit of the doubt that I am NOT attacking YOU as a person, who is fully and wholly loved by God, but challenging your opinions and convictions about the Word of God and this topic.

If the little cartoons make you feel better, then by all means, post them all over.

They DO make me feel better, because I hope they help convey that I am not frothing and pointing and screaming, but saying what I have to say in love and kindness...though you may find the words hard to accept.  They are not said in anger, attack or judgement.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Nope.... it's called 'nature', just as God created it to be.

[MeMyself]

PS. As I stated earlier, if you mean "agree to disagree" in the sense that this topic is done, you will not say anything more about it here, neither will I.

However, if you mean, "You be quiet now, but I'll keep posting" I will not hush.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Thanks memyself.   If you're brimming with Christian love for me, then please respect that I and millions of other Christians have a different opinion than you on this subject, and stop trying to beat a dead horse when it's obvious we're not going to agree with each other.

[MeMyself]

Thanks memyself.   If you're brimming with Christian love for me, then please respect that I and millions of other Christians have a different opinion than you on this subject,

  Where have I said I don't accept this?  I totally do, but I also have the right to speak MY convictions too, you know.  Speaking them does not mean I don't accept that you feel differently. 

and stop trying to beat a dead horse when it's obvious we're not going to agree with each other.

This goes for you too, I guess.  Few here will agree with you, so stop beating the dead horse and drop it.

[Catholica]

Catholica, I've already replied to your question.  Animals eating poop or killing each other does not have anything to do with the examples of dolphins forming bonded homosexual pairs for life.

Sorry, I must have missed it.  I still am having trouble finding it.  Which page is it on?

If you use the normal activities of animals to justify that said activities are "natural", then you must account for many, many activities that you probably don't want to deal with.

Grasshoppers are cannibals.
Ducks have been observed to practice necrophilia.
Cane toads have been observed to have sex with inanimate objects.

If a person did any of these things, that would be a sin.  Logic therefore rightly concludes that animal behavior of any kind cannot be used to determine whether human behavior of the same kind is immoral or not.

We can, however, see attributes of God in the things he has made.   And the argument concerning the creation of the human sexual system and it's end makes it apparent as to what God's intent for it is, and that is pleasure connected with reproduction of the human race, and not one or the other, but both at once.

There is no answer to this truth that can substantiate several sexual practices, one of them being homosexual sex, which cannot reproduce.  In other words, you can tell by how God made the body that it was not intended to be used by same sex partners for sexual pleasure alone.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Memyself, I've already repeatedly stated that I've posted more than enough on the subject, that I've heard your view, you've heard mine, and we disagree.  If you want to start your 'own' post on the subject, the forum room is open for you to do so.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Catholica, homosexuality exists in almost all species, just as God designed them to be.  It does not equate with killing or eating each other.  It is a form of affection and love.

That said, we are much more than simply 'genitalia'... when two souls meet, and find affection, love, and sexual desire for each other within a monogamous spiritual union, then that is a blessing, not a sin.

Reproduction is not required, since there are plenty of heterosexual pairings going on, both in Nature, and within Humanity.

If you're going to say it's a sin, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that.

[chosenone]

Nope.... it's called 'nature', just as God created it to be.

God doesnt create anything that He then condemns. So much is skewed in the world today due to sin and evil. 
Read this its good and helps to describe why people have same sex attraction. Its nearly all because of someone else's sin. 
http://www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/archive/12489-the-dangers-of-same-sex-marriage

[Aaron Lindahl]

Sorry chosenone, again... we'll have to agree to disagree on that.  As I've stated and shown exhaustively before, God does 'not' condemn homosexuality, as millions of other Christians now know and agree with what I say.

[chosenone]

Catholica, homosexuality exists in almost all species, just as God designed them to be.  It does not equate with killing or eating each other.  It is a form of affection and love.

That said, we are much more than simply 'genitalia'... when two souls meet, and find affection, love, and sexual desire for each other within a monogamous spiritual union, then that is a blessing, not a sin.

Reproduction is not required, since there are plenty of heterosexual pairings going on, both in Nature, and within Humanity.

If you're going to say it's a sin, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that.

IF there are the very very occasional homosexual pairings in nature(and its very rare) then its because nature is also skewed as men are. Also do you think that we should do as a tiny number of animals do or should we do what God says and live a moral life of integrity?
God doesnt make a man desire a man. A man does that for many reasons including sexual abuse and a very poor father/son relationship. A man or women can chose to live the right way or not, but trying to say that God made them that way so its ok is franky mad.  You are free to live as you wish, but there will be consequences, and please dont ignore the many verses that we have posted here that state clearly that sex and marriage are only for a man and a women.

[Aaron Lindahl]

I suggest you study up more on that subject.  It's not rare at all in Nature, and instead is extremely widespread, common, and completely natural, just as God designed it to be. As to 'ignoring'.. I've seen them all, and stated that I and millions of other Christians disagree.

It is 'you' who have ignored the many detailed translations on this subject I've provided that were translated by the most advanced religious scholars.

[MeMyself]

Sorry chosenone, again... we'll have to agree to disagree on that.  As I've stated and shown exhaustively before, God does 'not' condemn homosexuality, as millions of other Christians now know and agree with what I say.

Yes, Aaron, God does condemn sexual sin.  This is one area of that umbrella.

BUT, He waits on high to have compassion and sent His Son that we might live, not be condemned.

There is no reason to fear condemnation when one gives themselves fully over to Christ!   
I understand the great urge to love and be loved sexually, but the Word gives guidelines and boundaries for how to appropriately meet those needs. Some are called to remain celibate and if one is unable to set aside the sin that so entangles them, due to same sex attraction, they will be equipped to live a life of celibacy.  That does not mean it will be easy, but denying self hardly ever is.  That is just what Christ calls us to though.

Relationships can be fulfilling and loving even if they are not of a sexual nature. 

My brother is unmarried.  He is surviving though his longing for a wife and family goes unmet.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Nope.... it's called 'nature', just as God created it to be.

If we're talking "natural selection," then it's strongly selected against.

If we're talking "natural law" then that demands a prohibition at the community level anyway, for the overall propagation and good of the community.

Jarrod

[chosenone]

Sorry chosenone, again... we'll have to agree to disagree on that.  As I've stated and shown exhaustively before, God does 'not' condemn homosexuality, as millions of other Christians now know and agree with what I say.

Where are all these millions of Christians? I have been a christian for 40 years and have never met a single one who thinks as you do. Yes of course you disagree because you arent prepared to make the changes in your life that God is calling you to make.
Its simple, your lifestyle or God?  God or or the other man? I do know people who have given up their partners when God challenged them. They KNEW they had to do it. You can tell yourself till you are blue in the fact that its OK with God and perfectly natural, but when you stand before Him and He askes why you didnt choose Him, what will you say?

[Aaron Lindahl]

Wycliffs... "prohibition for the good of the community"?

Homosexuality flourished and was accepted by the general public and 'community' for over 1,300 years within the Greek culture, and for almost 900 years of Roman culture, without causing any 'downfall' of civilization as some people today claim will happen if homosexuals are able to get married.

The very foundation of Democracy itself, in the birthplace of Western Civilization itself.. was started by two 'gay' males..

The association of homosexuals with democracy and the military was intense and widespread, extending from Harmodius and Aristogeiton, a pair of lovers who founded Democracy by overthrowing the last tyrant of Athens, to the noted generals Pelopidas and Epanminondas, to the great military genius Alexander the Great and his male lover Bagoas.

Of Harmodius and Aristogeiton, no less acute a mind than Plato's observed that: "Our own tyrants learned this lesson through bitter experience, when the love between Aristogiton and Harmodius grew so strong that it shattered their power.  Wherever, therefore, it has been alluded to be shameful to be involved in sexual relationships with men, this is due to evil on the part of the rulers, and to cowardice in the part of the governed."

For hundreds of years, larger-than-life statues of these founders of Democracy towered above Athens, as impossible to disconnect with the city as the Statue of Liberty is impossible for us to disconnect with New York..  and young male lovers from England to Egypt, and across the entire Classical world would journey there to pledge their faith and love to each other, underneath those statues.

Gorgidas, the leader of Thebes created the Sacred Band, composed of 300 men, who were all paired lovers.  They were known as the 'sacred band' because as Plutarch later explained, "even Plato calls the lover a friend inspired of God."

Philip of Macedon and Plutarch recounted how the greatest heroes in the Greek's own history were all known to prefer other males rather than women: Meleager, Achilles, Aristomenes, Cimon, Epaminondas, Asopichus, and Caphisodorus.

Even Hercules was famous for his male lover, Iolaus, who fought by his side.  In Plato's 'Symposium,' he noted the eagerness of the great warrior Achilles to join his lover and military partner in death as an explicit parallel to a wife's being willing to die for her husband.  Their bones were burned and mixed together in a gold amphora, as was done in the case of married heterosexual couples.

Aristophanes said that "..males who prefer other males are the finest men because they have the most manly nature.  Their behavior is due to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome their like." 

Plato and numerous other classical authors attested to the military value of armies made up of lovers.  When Epaminondas fell in battle at Mantineia, his lover died beside him.  One of the most formidable and feared Theban warriors of the early Classical Era was Kaphisodoros, who was part of the Sacred Band.

[MeMyself]

Sorry chosenone, again... we'll have to agree to disagree on that.  As I've stated and shown exhaustively before, God does 'not' condemn homosexuality, as millions of other Christians now know and agree with what I say.

Where are all these millions of Christians? I have been a christian for 40 years and have never met a single one who thinks as you do. Yes of course you disagree because you arent prepared to make the changes in your life that God is calling you to make.
Its simple, your lifestyle or God?  God or or the other man? I do know people who have given up their partners when God challenged them. They KNEW they had to do it. You can tell yourself till you are blue in the fact that its OK with God and perfectly natural, but when you stand before Him and He askes why you didnt choose Him, what will you say?

What I don't get is even using that "millions agree with me" as a valid argument.  We aren't asking for mans' opinion, but Gods.  HE is who those on this side of the argument have to convince.  They can change scripture, claim IT is in error, and that THEY can fix it, but it won't change a thing.  Not really.

It makes my heart so heavy when I think how many are being deceived and will be caused to stumble over this. 

[Aaron Lindahl]

chosenone, I've already listed them, here they are again:

These are the many entire denominations consisting of thousands of churches, and millions of people, who agree with the truth I share with you.

North America

• Affirming Pentecostal Church International
• Anointed Affirming Independent Ministries
• Anthem Phoenix & Family of Churches
• Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Community of Christ
• Ecclesia Gnostica
• Ecumenical Catholic Church
• Ecumenical Catholic Communion
• Episcopal Church (United States)
• Evangelical Anglican Church In America
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
• The Evangelical Network
• Friends General Conference
• Friends of Jesus Fellowship
• Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals
• Inclusive Orthodox Church
• Metropolitan Community Church
• Old Catholic Church
• Presbyterian Church (USA)
• Progressive Christian Alliance
• Reformed Anglican Catholic Church
• Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA) — a Latter Day Saint denomination
• United Church of Christ
• United Church of Canada
• Unity Church

Europe

• German Lutheran, reformed and united churches in Evangelical Church in Germany
• German, Swiss, Austrian and Dutch Old Catholic Church
• Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Poland, Ecumenical Catholic Communion
• Swiss reformed churches in Swiss Reformed Church
• Protestant Church in the Netherlands
• Church of Denmark
• Church of Norway
• Church of Sweden
• Church of Iceland
• United Protestant Church in Belgium
• Portugal - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
• British Quakers
• Wales - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
• Albania - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in Italy (CELI)
• Poland - Christian United Church in Poland
• United Kingdom - United Ecumenical Catholic Church

Central and South America

• Brazil - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
• Colombia - Affirming Pentecostal Church International

Australia

• Baptist Affirming
• Uniting Church in Australia
• Anglican
• Metropolitan Community Churches
• Ecumenical Catholic Communion
• Pentecostal Reformed

[Johnb]

Aaron  I was not referring to my personal attention span but as a moderator giving advise on how to have your posts actually read.  I have 3 plus years of post graduate work in bible at a well known Christian college so no need to attempt to demean my ability to read and understand.  The fact that many here do not agree with your nontraditional stance on this subject does not mean they are being unkind or unchristian.  The fact that they accept the scholarship of the thousands of men who devoted their life to the study of Greek and Hebrew over 2000 years over your new views does not mean they are unkind or unchristian.  It just means they reject your conclusions and those who are trying to change what scripture actually has to say on the subject.  We all have sin that we do not over come (some say willful sin but IMO all sin is willful sin) and the grace of God will cover our sins and He is the final judge.  I am not willing to call my sins non sin nor the sins of the homosexuals.  Sin is sin and we are all saved by grace thru faith .  Now with that statement I will take some of the heat off you and some of the flaming arrows will come my way. 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

God doesnt create anything that He then condemns.

I think there's a pretty good body of evidence to suggest that mankind is still a work in progress.  I'm not sure the "creating" process is finished, here.

Jarrod

[Aaron Lindahl]

JohnB... this has only been translated wrongly since the Middle Ages.

For the first 300 years of Christianity, homosexuals were openly welcomed into the Church and were able to marry each other.

It wasn't until in 305- 306 – the Council of Elvira (now Granada, Spain), that homosexuals began to be persecuted. This council was representative of the Western European Church and among other things, it barred homosexuals the right to Communion.

In 314, the Council of Ancyra (now Ankara, Turkey) met. This council was representative of the Eastern European Church and it excluded the Sacraments for 15 years to unmarried men under the age of 20 who were caught in homosexual acts, and excluded the man for life if he was married and over the age of 50.

On December 16, 342 AD, the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, under advice from their bishops, issued the following edict.. a law specifically outlawing marriages between men, and reads as follows:

"When a man marries in the manner of a woman, a woman about to renounce men, what does he wish, when sex has lost its significance; when the crime is one which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed into another form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise, the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons who are now, or who hereafter may be guilty, shall be subjected to exquisite punishment." (Theodosian Code 9.7.3)

Christian emperors Theodosius and Arcadius on Aug 6, 390, under the advice of their bishops, issued the following edict.. an edict that would begin an evil persecution towards gay people that would last well over 1,600 years:

"All persons who have the shameful custom of condemning a man's body, acting the part of a woman's to the sufferance of alien sex (for they appear not to be different from women), shall expiate a crime of this kind by being burned to death in the public sight of the people." -Codex Theodosius IX. Vii. 6

[MeMyself]

Aaron  I was not referring to my personal attention span but as a moderator giving advise on how to have your posts actually read.  I have 3 plus years of post graduate work in bible at a well known Christian college so no need to attempt to demean my ability to read and understand.  The fact that many here do not agree with your nontraditional stance on this subject does not mean they are being unkind or unchristian.  The fact that they accept the scholarship of the thousands of men who devoted their life to the study of Greek and Hebrew over 2000 years over your new views does not mean they are unkind or unchristian.  It just means they reject your conclusions and those who are trying to change what scripture actually has to say on the subject.  We all have sin that we do not over come (some say willful sin but IMO all sin is willful sin) and the grace of God will cover our sins and He is the final judge.  I am not willing to call my sins non sin nor the sins of the homosexuals.  Sin is sin and we are all saved by grace thru faith .

[Aaron Lindahl]

JohnB, for security reasons, the translating staff is not identified by name or current location. However, it has been requested that the qualifications of the lead translator be listed. This individual, Rev. W.H.C., began independent study of koine Greek in 1968, guided by native Greek instructors. Rev. C. began studying the Hebrew language, beginning with modern Hebrew, and then moving to biblical, in 1979, under the tutelage of Israeli instructor B.K. He later taught classes in both languages in a Christian Bible college for a number of years. Further studies in theology, church administration, etc., took place at two NY Bible schools, and studies in research writing and the humanities at the State University of New York. He was the author of the ministerial training curriculum used by two Christian denominations. Rev. C. is an ordained minister, former pastor, and is currently Dean of a Bible school, where he continues to teach.

He has authored books on theology, and has done translation work from Hebrew, Greek and Russian. His work has been published in English, Hebrew, Russian, French and Spanish.

For too many years, people whose sexual orientation was other than heterosexual have been marginalized in the churches, made to feel dirty, useless, etc. Sometimes they are subjected to what can only be viewed as spiritual and emotional torture. And when they ultimately cannot change who they are, they are often driven away, and wind up abandoning God, falsely believing that He rejected them.

Others have been deluded into thinking that they can become what they are not, and some have maintained this illusion for years, only to be devastated when it ultimately fails. Such self-delusion usually results in depression, self-loathing, loss of faith in God, and even suicide.

They are not "liberal" theologians. They do not dismiss scripture as irrelevant to this day and age. They believe the Bible, in its original form, was the inerrant word of God. We endeavor to move beyond the mistranslations that exist in English translations of that word, using the extant Hebrew and Greek texts.

The process of researching the Hebrew and Greek, as well as the history of the church and world in regard to sexuality, began for them in 1980, and continues to this day. When translating from Hebrew and Greek to English, they tend to bypass religious resources, which have been known to alter meanings for doctrinal reasons (not just on this topic). They prefer to rely primarily on secular language sources, whose only "agenda" is proper understanding of the language.

[MeMyself]

JohnB, for security reasons, our staff is not identified by name or current location. However, it has been requested that the qualifications of our lead translator be listed. This individual, Rev. W.H.C., began independent study of koine Greek in 1968, guided by native Greek instructors. Rev. C. began studying the Hebrew language, beginning with modern Hebrew, and then moving to biblical, in 1979, under the tutelage of Israeli instructor B.K. He later taught classes in both languages in a Christian Bible college for a number of years. Further studies in theology, church administration, etc., took place at two NY Bible schools, and studies in research writing and the humanities at the State University of New York. He was the author of the ministerial training curriculum used by two Christian denominations. Rev. C. is an ordained minister, former pastor, and is currently Dean of a Bible school, where he continues to teach.

He has authored books on theology, and has done translation work from Hebrew, Greek and Russian. His work has been published in English, Hebrew, Russian, French and Spanish.

Does he identify himself as a homosexual?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Wycliffs... "prohibition for the good of the community"?

Homosexuality flourished and was accepted by the general public and 'community' for over 1,300 years within the Greek culture, and for almost 900 years of Roman culture, without causing any 'downfall' of civilization as some people today claim will happen if homosexuals are able to get married.

The very foundation of Democracy itself, in the birthplace of Western Civilization itself.. was started by two 'gay' males..

The association of homosexuals with democracy and the military was intense and widespread, extending from Harmodius and Aristogeiton, a pair of lovers who founded Democracy by overthrowing the last tyrant of Athens, to the noted generals Pelopidas and Epanminondas, to the great military genius Alexander the Great and his male lover Bagoas.

Of Harmodius and Aristogeiton, no less acute a mind than Plato's observed that: "Our own tyrants learned this lesson through bitter experience, when the love between Aristogiton and Harmodius grew so strong that it shattered their power.  Wherever, therefore, it has been alluded to be shameful to be involved in sexual relationships with men, this is due to evil on the part of the rulers, and to cowardice in the part of the governed."

For hundreds of years, larger-than-life statues of these founders of Democracy towered above Athens, as impossible to disconnect with the city as the Statue of Liberty is impossible for us to disconnect with New York..  and young male lovers from England to Egypt, and across the entire Classical world would journey there to pledge their faith and love to each other, underneath those statues.

Gorgidas, the leader of Thebes created the Sacred Band, composed of 300 men, who were all paired lovers.  They were known as the 'sacred band' because as Plutarch later explained, "even Plato calls the lover a friend inspired of God."

Philip of Macedon and Plutarch recounted how the greatest heroes in the Greek's own history were all known to prefer other males rather than women: Meleager, Achilles, Aristomenes, Cimon, Epaminondas, Asopichus, and Caphisodorus.

Even Hercules was famous for his male lover, Iolaus, who fought by his side.  In Plato's 'Symposium,' he noted the eagerness of the great warrior Achilles to join his lover and military partner in death as an explicit parallel to a wife's being willing to die for her husband.  Their bones were burned and mixed together in a gold amphora, as was done in the case of married heterosexual couples.

Aristophanes said that "..males who prefer other males are the finest men because they have the most manly nature.  Their behavior is due to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome their like." 

Plato and numerous other classical authors attested to the military value of armies made up of lovers.  When Epaminondas fell in battle at Mantineia, his lover died beside him.  One of the most formidable and feared Theban warriors of the early Classical Era was Kaphisodoros, who was part of the Sacred Band.

That's an awfully long response to have come up with in under 5 minutes.  Is all this from memory, or are you quoting from somewhere?  (In the future, if you are quoting, it would be good form to cite sources)

That aside, I'm very familiar with Classical scholarship, and while your list of famous examples is somewhat impressive, your overall post mischaracterizes the attitude of the Greeks toward homosexuality, by leaving out some important details.

The Greeks didn't practice homosexuality in the modern sense, so much as they practiced promiscuous bi-sexuality.  In an era where one's future livelihood and support depended entirely upon one's sons, there were few men who did not have a wife and family.  A man with no sons would have been an object of scorn, and Greek scholarship is derisive where it comes to "effiminate" men.

The Greek custom was not to have a monogamous gay lover.  The custom was to take a boy lover (usually from among orphans) as a consort, in addition to your wife and family.  Such a person would likely be your servant as well, so it would be "normal" for them to travel with you and defend you in battles, if you went to war (which was also fairly common for the Greeks).

Today we use words like "slavery," "sexploitation" and "p*dophilia" to describe these kind of customs.

I don't think this is the type of behavior you want to emulate or promote.

Jarrod

[MeMyself]

That aside, I'm very familiar with Classical scholarship, and while your list of famous examples is somewhat impressive, your overall post mischaracterizes the attitude of the Greeks toward homosexuality, by leaving out some important details.

The Greeks didn't practice homosexuality in the modern sense, so much as they practiced promiscuous bi-sexuality.  In an era where one's future livelihood and support depended entirely upon one's sons, there were few men who did not have a wife and family.  A man with no sons would have been an object of scorn, and Greek scholarship is derisive where it comes to "effiminate" men.

The Greek custom was not to have a monogamous gay lover.  The custom was to take a boy lover (usually from among orphans) as a consort, in addition to your wife and family.  Such a person would likely be your servant as well, so it would be "normal" for them to travel with you and defend you in battles, if you went to war (which was also fairly common for the Greeks).

Today we use words like "slavery," "sexploitation" and "p*dophilia" to describe these kind of customs.

I don't think this is the type of behavior you want to emulate or promote.

Jarrod

Every time I hear of this historical facts, it breaks my heart.

There truly is nothing new under the sun.

[Aaron Lindahl]

Memyslef... No, he is not homosexual.

[MeMyself]

Memyslef... No, he is not homosexual.

Does he have family that is?