"Why don't men pursue women anymore?"

[Cally]

I've heard this gripe from so many traditionalist types who just love to pretend that feminism doesn't exist or doesn't have billions of dollars in taxpayer funding, but I thought I'd share this for anybody with an interest in getting themselves educated on reality:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fallout-from-campus-sexual-assault-hysteria-college-men-now-suspicious-of-women/article/2552346

"This is about men actually avoiding contact with women because they're afraid a simple kiss or date could lead to a sexual assault accusation."

This is with regards to college campuses but a lot of this kind of thing happens outside of the college scene too.

[chosenone]

Then they are clearly miXing with the wrong sort of women in the wrong  places. Of course you are speaking of men in the world, and some men may hold onto something like that as an excuse as to why they dont want to pursue or commit to a woman(when it may be for other reasons).

Men still do pursue women of course, and thats why most people do either end up living with someone or getting married. It cant happen otherwise.

Also college life is VERY different from the real world and usually very immoral anyway.   

[Cally]

^Men will protect themselves--and be extra careful and on guard when there's a lack of interest in their protection from others. And when it comes to issues like this, this is just one under a huge umbrella of issues that show how vulnerable a man is in a relationship (marriage or otherwise) with a woman today.

No matter how much you or anyone insists that social/legal vulnerabilities shouldn't have an impact on whether or not men pursue relationships with women, they do. Marriage rates are dropping drastically for a lot of other practical reasons.

I doubt you even read the article I posted to begin with, but just for your information, here are some examples of how such cases happen:

http://www.dadsrights.org/testimony-anne-p-mitchell-senate-education-committee-hearing-senator-de-leons-sb-967/

Excerpt:

"Tiffany H. wants you to know that "In our case, a drunk girl kissed and made advances toward our son. Our son told the girl "No"... 3 days later the accuser saw our son with his girlfriend – a girl he has dated since 2011 – and our son ignored the accuser. Later that evening our son was pulled into the security office at the university and our hell began. He was innocent. He passed a voluntary polygraph. The local law enforcement didn't prosecute. But still, our son lost his hopes, his dreams, and all he had worked for....he was expelled for sexual misconduct. This is what a preponderance of evidence standard, and the current interpretation of affirmative consent, will do – it will ruin innocent lives. Today our son is trying to put his life back together.. at 18 ½ years old. He suffers from nightmares, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, and has trust issues. He is working hard with a counselor to overcome the attack on him. The attack on his innocence. The attack on his reputation and good name. He will never be the same. Our family will never be the same."

[chosenone]

The thing is that if men werent persuing women generally(not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single. Being that most people end up either married or in a relationship, there must be a whole lot of persuing going on.

[Cally]

The thing is that if men werent persuing women generally(not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single. Being that most people end up either married or in a relationship, there must be a whole lot of persuing going on.

Yes indeed, many people are still getting married or having relationships.

Marriage rates are nose diving, however. Many people gripe about the fact without bothering to get themselves informed, and come up with worthless criticisms. Many men are avoiding marriage because of the legal dangers in today's world, and that's a fact. Fewer and fewer men are choosing to ignore warnings that come from horror stories that reflect how unprotected a man is in today's world.

[chosenone]

The thing is that if men werent persuing women generally(not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single. Being that most people end up either married or in a relationship, there must be a whole lot of persuing going on.

Yes indeed, many people are still getting married or having relationships.

Marriage rates are nose diving, however. Many people gripe about the fact without bothering to get themselves informed, and come up with worthless criticisms. Many men are avoiding marriage because of the legal dangers in today's world, and that's a fact. Fewer and fewer men are choosing to ignore warnings that come from horror stories that reflect how unprotected a man is in today's world.

If marriage rates are dropping its because couples now live together more.
The people I know who are living together but not married(including many members of my own family) are because they dont see anything wrong with living together outside marriage anymore.  They arent Christians so dont have that understanding of why its so important. However most live in relationships that last, usually end up in marriage at some point, often before children come along.  I dont know any couples who arent getting married for the reasons you mention, or any single people who are avoiding marriage for those reasons either,  in fact most really want to get married but just havent met the right person yet.   

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The thing is that if men werent pursuing women generally (not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single.

Is it unthinkable that a woman might pursue a man?

[Rella]

The thing is that if men werent pursuing women generally (not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single.

Is it unthinkable that a woman might pursue a man?

Have you not heard the old adage that a man chases after a woman until "she'' catches him.

The trouble is that the "Gloria Steinems" et al changed the rules around and it is all upside down.

I am truly sick of the change that has now trickled down into even the ads on TV.
Tide and others running ads showing "dad" taking care of the babies and kids and how best for them to do the laundry. No sign of a mom in sight.

What a double edged sword women created for themselves when they "demanded" the right to sexual freedom but now complain that men are too aggressive in that area.

Are women truly so stupid as to not know that men are wired differently then women and when they (women) set things in motion it is going to backfire at some point? You simply cannot light a match when there is dry wood around or at some point you will get burned.

Well, off my rant....

Anyway Wycliffes_Shillelagh, No it is not unthinkable at all, but the rules are different for each gender, or should be.

[chosenone]

The thing is that if men werent pursuing women generally (not just in the colleges), then everyone would be single.

Is it unthinkable that a woman might pursue a man?

Not at all. It was I who contacted my husband first on the Christian dating site we were both on(he had only just joined), so in that sense I suppose it was initially me who did the chasing and made the first move, and by going onto dating sites women are being proactive of course.
I remember one lady who was on a dating site who made it clear that she would not contact a man, but he would have to contact her, and I thought that was a bit weird being that she had already made the first move by joining a dating site. I wonder if she ever met her guy?

[Cally]

Is it unthinkable that a woman might pursue a man?

A lot of traditionalists consider it a man's job to pursue a woman. I'm not sure I get it either, from a biblical standpoint. There's Ruth and Boaz, Isaac and Rebekah, and the fact the marriages are usually arranged in the larger face of history, and then there was Adam and Eve of course.

But in any case, they need to wake up and realize that every time a man does that he risks an accusation of sexual assault--a woman can accuse a man of that for absolutely any reason, and in college campuses, without any due process.

[chosenone]

Is it unthinkable that a woman might pursue a man?

A lot of traditionalists consider it a man's job to pursue a woman. I'm not sure I get it either, from a biblical standpoint. There's Ruth and Boaz, Isaac and Rebekah, and the fact the marriages are usually arranged in the larger face of history, and then there was Adam and Eve of course.

But in any case, they need to wake up and realize that every time a man does that he risks an accusation of sexual assault--a woman can accuse a man of that for absolutely any reason, and in college campuses, without any due process.

Does what, asks a girl out?

[Cally]

Does what, asks a girl out?

Chosenone I know you might find this rude, but if you're asking that, you haven't paid attention to anything at all that I've shown here. Colleges explicitly deny men any due process for accusations of sexual assault, and in general women's accusations against a man are automatically believed without proof.

[chosenone]

Does what, asks a girl out?

Chosenone I know you might find this rude, but if you're asking that, you haven't paid attention to anything at all that I've shown here. Colleges explicitly deny men any due process for accusations of sexual assault, and in general women's accusations against a man are automatically believed without proof.

However asking a lady out can not be mistaken for assault can it. Colleges and Unis are very sexually promiscous places sadly. However they dont always represent the real world outside.   

[Cally]

However asking a lady out can not be mistaken for assault can it.

Forgive me, but you are still paying absolutely no attention to the sources I posted. A woman is free to define absolutely any behavior a man makes as sexual assault, legally, and have a man punished. And I mean anything. She can even make it up completely, and authorities will take her at her word. It's a hot-bed subject right now, as a matter of fact, that college men have been denied due process (fundamental human right) because of rape hysteria.

My comment to traditionalists is, stop making worthless criticisms about men pursuing women before you get to know the situations of those who you are criticizing. The phrase "be a man" actually belongs directed at those who are too cowardly to confront the existence of feminism and instead suppose they are guilt-free for laying abuse on men (young men especially) who are under attack for the manly behavior and/or results you want to see.

[Rella]

However asking a lady out can not be mistaken for assault can it.

Forgive me, but you are still paying absolutely no attention to the sources I posted. A woman is free to define absolutely any behavior a man makes as sexual assault, legally, and have a man punished. And I mean anything. She can even make it up completely, and authorities will take her at her word. It's a hot-bed subject right now, as a matter of fact, that college men have been denied due process (fundamental human right) because of rape hysteria.

To sidestep the main subject of this thread a wee bit this is what bothers me about the entire women accusing men of sexual misconduct.

For example... look at Bill Cosby and the mess he is in.

Did he do something inappropriate with one or all of the accusing women?

Possibly. I was not there and have no first hand knowledge. HOWEVER.........

What prompted these women to come forward NOW.  Twenty years later and even forty years later?

NO one, I repeat no one knows the truth. Not even these women because it is entirely possible if the accusations are true that he at some point did truly repent and turned himself around.

I would like to know why it was that these women would permits themselves to be in the presence of any man alone. Especially in a dressing room or a hotel room.

I have not heard anyone screaming out that HE took their virginity.

That means that they were not so lily white and pure themselves.

So I wonder why come forward now, when it is past the statute of limitations for rape, unless they just want their 15 minutes of fame....

What a sad time we live in.

[Cally]

Rella:

Yes, there's that issue, and did you hear about the infamous Rolling Stone article? The rape story that turned out to be a total falsehood reported as news before anyone did any factchecking? The (female) dean decided to ban fraternities because of it.

But yes, there was Cosby, and it happened with Herman Cain.

I have seen MANY stories about women's accusations against men (of ALL types) automatically believed, until blatantly obvious evidence like recordings proved them wrong. Their ab abilities to ruin a man's life at a whim (a reflection of our overall culture) is just appalling.

Apart from the outright malicious parties, though, I am fed-up with the "man up" traditionalists more than anything. They demonstrate cowardice after they're about their list of "be a man" demands but they don't demonstrate a protective attitude for those from whom they expect results, results, results. /soapbox

I'd also think that it's in women's interests to get involved too. if they have notions of wanting men to perform their old-school "masculine" duties. Thank you GOD that some women do!!! And I've found them online and I'm profoundly blessed to know several personally. Part of the courage of being a Godly woman is to face the same fight a man is facing. I love those angels. 

[tennman]

A lot of men I know don't pursue because of the mind games women play. The very idea that women act as though it's beneath them to "pursue" a man or show interest. We watch "Everybody Loves Raymond" and how awful his wife treats him, how it's presented as though sex with him is a chore that she has little interest in and that he isn't good looking or because he's a man in general. He as a man just isn't worthy of physical desire. What man would want that? If it were reversed, women wouldn't want it either.

Men see women expecting the man to pay for everything but women want to have him support their careers. The reason men used to pay for things is not because they had a penis. It was because the physical, outdoor work required then was so difficult that women didn't work. Men had the money. Now days more women finish college than men (but still seem to act as though manual labor is beneath them, especially as a potential career).

Women make money. I dated a girl in college whose daddy sent her close to 2 thousand a month which was for way more than just her needs. They were wealthy. I had a job and squeezed out about 300 a month that I did use for my needs. She knew all that and had more money than she knew what to do with but still expected me to pay for her whenever we went out. It was like I had to pay for the privilege of being around her. That's just one example of how many women treat men as though they (men) are beneath them. Men take all the risk of rejection and are expected to keep risking it even into marriage.

I'm pretty bitter. I, though, am one of the blessed ones in that I married a great woman who pursues me sexually, emotionally and otherwise. We pursue each other because neither is less than the other. We both deserve pursuit. More women should be like her.

[Cally]

Amen, tennman, but that's the paradox of feminism itself: even as more women prove their "independence," it still boils down to showing up on men's doorstep to fix their problems, including enabling the world to be this generous cradle in which "equality" is feasible.

But again, today, the providers are in trouble from being so taxed. If women are equal, indeed, can't they do some of the rescuing? I wouldn't mind that in any case. Just look at Proverbs 31:20 about the woman of noble character: "she extends her arms to the needy." What, and a husband is excluded from that if he's the one who's needy?

And then yet again are these cowardly traditionalists: "a man should be the sole provider." Feminism seeks out and destroys men's material success so women can take men's places, and they succeed! Get with it!!!

And credit where it's due: the true Godly women that I've been SO BLESSED to find--just to behold them--are spectacular in their love.

But yeah, it's cowardly and it's a hate-on. Likewise, I think the "men should pursue women" is what you say, and to suggest that the woman should have all the choosing leverage.

[Rella]

Cally and tennman,

I agree with a lot of of what you say.

However I draw the line at a man asking a woman out to dinner and then sits there and divides the bill so she pays her share.

If I am invited out... by anyone, then I expect "to be treated."

If I do the inviting then I expect to pay.

And so it is not all one sided if I am treated I will counter at a later time, on my nickle.

For a while I was on one of the dating site forums and I got quite an education of what is expected ..... today.

If a woman does not want to go to bed with her date they ( the men) expect to go dutch treat, if she does not pick up the check.

And one woman confessed she always insists on paying her way so the bed thing is not expected unless she wants it.

The same held true on the millionaire sites as well... so I stopped.

No matter what, and the fact that women are earning more then in times gone past
they still do not earn as much as their male counterparts.
Couple that with their personal expenses of a wide variety of wardrobe, hair and makeup, women in general do not always have the funds necessary for the dating scene.

I am too old fashioned. I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

But as one 40 something man told me in a forum when I complained that I still wanted to be on that pedestal and hated to be knocked off and onto my back that,
that is just the way it is and it is not going to change.

So, hating to admit it, I do feel that too much of the sexual abuse that was the gist of the OPs initial topic is of women's own making... and no wonder men are avoiding it.

[Cally]

I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

Rella:

There is indeed an art of being a woman involving bringing out the best in a man. And it's probably right to say that it's old-fashioned. I appreciate a lot of what you're saying.

Here's my thought for you, just to consider. Look at the wife of Proverbs 31. The woman is so busy it scares me. A man is busy too. What's the big fat hairy deal which gender's work yields the paycheck?

At the very least, surely you can acknowledge the fact that feminism is, and always has been, about replacing men in the workforce with women. Despite how much money women make these days, feminists' latest gripe is women being a minority in STEM fields, which can also be phrased: too many men are succeeding compared to women!

So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?

[Rella]

I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

Rella:



So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?

Yep, I fully agree with you, and you are correct it is not what I want.

I also know it take 2 paychecks, for the most part,  to make it work today.

But I still will cringe at the ads showing men changing diapers, doing laundry and housework as if they are content in the roles of Mr. Mom....

And I detest "women" interviewers in a man's sport such as football.

I hate the ads that show a man wanting to remove his body hair, and especially the one that has that one woman...(?) exclaiming how she "loves a close shave......"
(The man thing bothers me cause I personally like a hairy chest on a man... but of course that has to go if you are going to cover yourself with all those tattoos...LOL

Men and women are different... Praise God for that.

But each has their own God given abilities and strengths ...

Alas I am rambling again.

[Cally]

^Rella, I'm on the same page, don't worry. ;-)

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

[chosenone]

I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

Rella:

There is indeed an art of being a woman involving bringing out the best in a man. And it's probably right to say that it's old-fashioned. I appreciate a lot of what you're saying.

Here's my thought for you, just to consider. Look at the wife of Proverbs 31. The woman is so busy it scares me. A man is busy too. What's the big fat hairy deal which gender's work yields the paycheck?

At the very least, surely you can acknowledge the fact that feminism is, and always has been, about replacing men in the workforce with women. Despite how much money women make these days, feminists' latest gripe is women being a minority in STEM fields, which can also be phrased: too many men are succeeding compared to women!

So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?

In my case DH payed when we went out as I was a very hard up single mum of three, and his income then was loads more than mine. Had he been out of work, for example, and I had more money, then I am sure that I would have paid. 

[chosenone]

I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

Rella:

There is indeed an art of being a woman involving bringing out the best in a man. And it's probably right to say that it's old-fashioned. I appreciate a lot of what you're saying.

Here's my thought for you, just to consider. Look at the wife of Proverbs 31. The woman is so busy it scares me. A man is busy too. What's the big fat hairy deal which gender's work yields the paycheck?

At the very least, surely you can acknowledge the fact that feminism is, and always has been, about replacing men in the workforce with women. Despite how much money women make these days, feminists' latest gripe is women being a minority in STEM fields, which can also be phrased: too many men are succeeding compared to women!

So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?

In the UK very few young couples can afford to live unless they both work, even after children, which is sad for the children but its a fact of life unless you are either on benefits(and therefore have your rent and other things paid for) or very well off. All of the young couples/parents in my family both work and earn similar salaries to each other.   


However some Christian men I know want to be the provider for the wife and family, they see it as part of their godly role, but it depends on their circumstances as to where they can afford do that or not.

[chosenone]

I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.

Rella:



So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?

Yep, I fully agree with you, and you are correct it is not what I want.

I also know it take 2 paychecks, for the most part,  to make it work today.

But I still will cringe at the ads showing men changing diapers, doing laundry and housework as if they are content in the roles of Mr. Mom....

And I detest "women" interviewers in a man's sport such as football.

I hate the ads that show a man wanting to remove his body hair, and especially the one that has that one woman...(?) exclaiming how she "loves a close shave......"
(The man thing bothers me cause I personally like a hairy chest on a man... but of course that has to go if you are going to cover yourself with all those tattoos...LOL

Men and women are different... Praise God for that.

But each has their own God given abilities and strengths ...

Alas I am rambling again.

I have no issue at all with women being interested in working in sport, its not a male only thing,  and I love to see men involved in the care of their babies and children.  If both work then both should share the care of their children and looking after the home. Most young parents I know are a team, who work together and dont see the need or the point of specifying certain jobs for men and certain ones for women, but either do what needs to be done at that time, or they each do the jobs they are best at.
I have seen the situation where men whose wife's have died after 30 or 40 or more years of marriage, or whose wives fall ill,   cant even cook a meal or iron a shirt. Crazy.  ::frown::Thats why I am a great advocate for young people to leave home and be independant and look after themselves for some time way before they get married.

[chosenone]

A lot of men I know don't pursue because of the mind games women play. The very idea that women act as though it's beneath them to "pursue" a man or show interest. We watch "Everybody Loves Raymond" and how awful his wife treats him, how it's presented as though sex with him is a chore that she has little interest in and that he isn't good looking or because he's a man in general. He as a man just isn't worthy of physical desire. What man would want that? If it were reversed, women wouldn't want it either.

Men see women expecting the man to pay for everything but women want to have him support their careers. The reason men used to pay for things is not because they had a penis. It was because the physical, outdoor work required then was so difficult that women didn't work. Men had the money. Now days more women finish college than men (but still seem to act as though manual labor is beneath them, especially as a potential career).

Women make money. I dated a girl in college whose daddy sent her close to 2 thousand a month which was for way more than just her needs. They were wealthy. I had a job and squeezed out about 300 a month that I did use for my needs. She knew all that and had more money than she knew what to do with but still expected me to pay for her whenever we went out. It was like I had to pay for the privilege of being around her. That's just one example of how many women treat men as though they (men) are beneath them. Men take all the risk of rejection and are expected to keep risking it even into marriage.

I'm pretty bitter. I, though, am one of the blessed ones in that I married a great woman who pursues me sexually, emotionally and otherwise. We pursue each other because neither is less than the other. We both deserve pursuit. More women should be like her.

I think that Christian men need to be careful where they look for a lady. Look in a church or a place where Christian ladies will be, and get to know them before asking them out. There are many lovely single Christian ladies out there in their 20's and 30's, and far too few Christian men, I know quite a few myself who would make great wives and mothers, but there are no men for them.    There have always been more women than men in churches here, at least as long as I have been alive.

[chosenone]

However asking a lady out can not be mistaken for assault can it.

Forgive me, but you are still paying absolutely no attention to the sources I posted. A woman is free to define absolutely any behavior a man makes as sexual assault, legally, and have a man punished. And I mean anything. She can even make it up completely, and authorities will take her at her word. It's a hot-bed subject right now, as a matter of fact, that college men have been denied due process (fundamental human right) because of rape hysteria.

To sidestep the main subject of this thread a wee bit this is what bothers me about the entire women accusing men of sexual misconduct.

For example... look at Bill Cosby and the mess he is in.

Did he do something inappropriate with one or all of the accusing women?

Possibly. I was not there and have no first hand knowledge. HOWEVER.........

What prompted these women to come forward NOW.  Twenty years later and even forty years later?

NO one, I repeat no one knows the truth. Not even these women because it is entirely possible if the accusations are true that he at some point did truly repent and turned himself around.

I would like to know why it was that these women would permits themselves to be in the presence of any man alone. Especially in a dressing room or a hotel room.

I have not heard anyone screaming out that HE took their virginity.

That means that they were not so lily white and pure themselves.

So I wonder why come forward now, when it is past the statute of limitations for rape, unless they just want their 15 minutes of fame....

What a sad time we live in.

There have been a few cases here in the UK recently involving very well know men where women have come forward many years later and it turned out that the man was guilty of serious prolonged and severe sexual abuse over a very long period of time of many very young women and in many cases children.
Some did come forward at the time but weren't believed, other cases of abuse involving famous people in the establishment were covered up by those in power in the 60's and 70's, who ordered the police not to investigate it and to even get rid of any evidence. Many knew that no one would believe them over the word of a famous man, and were actually told by the men that there was no point in them saying anything as who would believe them? Yet others were only children who rarely tell about abuse anyway because their blame themselves. Many told no one, and have only now had the courage to do so knowing that others victims have come forward, and always thought they were the only one. Some of the men are now in jail,  and others sadly are no longer alive to face the justice that was due to them, however they will now be suffering Gods judgement.   

Dont dismiss the testimony of people just because they didnt appear to come forward at the time.

[Cally]

In my case DH payed when we went out as I was a very hard up single mum of three, and his income then was loads more than mine. Had he been out of work, for example, and I had more money, then I am sure that I would have paid.

That seems sensible. Somehow I just remembered a Japanese friend I made (before he left back for Japan). He insisted on paying my way at dinner, and said that in Japan it is customary for the older person to pay for the younger even when the younger person outranks the older. Traditions, traditions . . . :\

[Cally]

There have been a few cases here in the UK recently involving very well know men where women have come forward many years later and it turned out that the man was guilty of serious prolonged and severe sexual abuse over a very long period of time of many very young women and in many cases children.
Some did come forward at the time but weren't believed, other cases of abuse involving famous people in the establishment were covered up by those in power who ordered the police not to investigate it and to even get rid of any evidence. Many knew that no one would believe them over the word of a famous man, and were actually told by the men that there was no point in them saying anything as who would believe them? Yet others were only children who rarely tell about abuse anyway because their blame themselves. Many told no one, and have only now had the courage to do so knowing that others victims have come forward, and always thought they were the only one. Some of the men are now in jail,  and others sadly are no longer alive to face the justice that was due to them, but will now be suffering Gods judgement.   

I don't know the circumstances surrounding the cases you mention, but the problem is that the accused has a right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. It's not good that some who are guilty go unpunished, but isn't it at least as horrible if an innocent person is punished? That's the rule of presumption of innocence, with the burden of proof on the accuser. Men's BASIC human right to due process and presumption of innocence is under attack.

Speaking of Cosby, and MANY men, all it took was accusations and absolutely nothing more to do incredible damage to them. Whether he is guilty or not, it is very evil that a woman should have that kind of power to ruin a man at a whim like that, but that's what they have. Thankfully there are women who are against that reality--some women lie about rape (I read an article detailing cases of it) or other kinds of abuse for a variety of motives, but the real point is the profound violation of a man's basic human rights.

[chosenone]

There have been a few cases here in the UK recently involving very well know men where women have come forward many years later and it turned out that the man was guilty of serious prolonged and severe sexual abuse over a very long period of time of many very young women and in many cases children.
Some did come forward at the time but weren't believed, other cases of abuse involving famous people in the establishment were covered up by those in power who ordered the police not to investigate it and to even get rid of any evidence. Many knew that no one would believe them over the word of a famous man, and were actually told by the men that there was no point in them saying anything as who would believe them? Yet others were only children who rarely tell about abuse anyway because their blame themselves. Many told no one, and have only now had the courage to do so knowing that others victims have come forward, and always thought they were the only one. Some of the men are now in jail,  and others sadly are no longer alive to face the justice that was due to them, but will now be suffering Gods judgement.   

I don't know the circumstances surrounding the cases you mention, but the problem is that the accused has a right to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. It's not good that some who are guilty go unpunished, but isn't it at least as horrible if an innocent person is punished? That's the rule of presumption of innocence, with the burden of proof on the accuser. Men's BASIC human right to due process and presumption of innocence is under attack.

Speaking of Cosby, and MANY men, all it took was accusations and absolutely nothing more to do incredible damage to them. Whether he is guilty or not, it is very evil that a woman should have that kind of power to ruin a man at a whim like that, but that's what they have. Thankfully there are women who are against that reality--some women lie about rape (I read an article detailing cases of it) or other kinds of abuse for a variety of motives, but the real point is the profound violation of a man's basic human rights.

yes a few women do that, but the amount of abuse that has been uncovered in recent years that happened in the 60's to 80's is shocking. Hopefully Bill will get his opportunity in court,  but of course he is very rich so will have far better lawyers that any women will have, so may get off anyway even if he is guilty. Thats happened before of course. 

[Cally]

yes a few women do that, but the amount of abuse that has been uncovered in recent years that happened in the 60's to 80's is shocking. Hopefully Bill will get his opportunity in court,  but of course he is very rich so will have far better lawyers that any women will have, so may get off anyway even if he is guilty. Thats happened before of course.

Many men have also come out of prison after many years, sometimes decades, after a false accusation was finally proven false by blatant evidence. And the problem is obvious: her testimony was automatically believed with no proof.

Cosby is ALREADY suffering before being proven guilty in court or anything. I'm not saying he shouldn't if he's actually guilty, but the "innocent until proven guilty" is not working in practice in the "public court" as it were.

Women can be as indifferent about the suffering of men as they want, but, such as in this case, it means that men would be well-advised to beware of that threat and think an extra ten times about approaching or trusting women. To me, the offensive part is just that: the indifference itself.

[JohnDB]

Part of the problem is that false accusers usually receive no accountability for their actions. Those that do are the exception instead of the rule.

Now if they were to get the same jail terms/punishment that they were trying to inflict upon the innocent then we might see some equality.

Sure there are punitive measures for purgery. ...but again not usually enforced.

[Cally]

Part of the problem is that false accusers usually receive no accountability for their actions. Those that do are the exception instead of the rule.

Now if they were to get the same jail terms/punishment that they were trying to inflict upon the innocent then we might see some equality.

Sure there are punitive measures for purgery. ...but again not usually enforced.

It's true, but I really think the bigger problem is clearly that a man's well-being and protection are grossly undervalued. It's true false accusers don't get sufficient punishment, but even women who commit crimes against men of the exact same kind likewise almost always get a tiny fraction of the penalty that men do.

[chosenone]

Part of the problem is that false accusers usually receive no accountability for their actions. Those that do are the exception instead of the rule.

Now if they were to get the same jail terms/punishment that they were trying to inflict upon the innocent then we might see some equality.

Sure there are punitive measures for purgery. ...but again not usually enforced.

  There have been some women in the UK who were jailed for falsely accusing a man of rape. Quite right too.

[chosenone]

yes a few women do that, but the amount of abuse that has been uncovered in recent years that happened in the 60's to 80's is shocking. Hopefully Bill will get his opportunity in court,  but of course he is very rich so will have far better lawyers that any women will have, so may get off anyway even if he is guilty. Thats happened before of course.

Many men have also come out of prison after many years, sometimes decades, after a false accusation was finally proven false by blatant evidence. And the problem is obvious: her testimony was automatically believed with no proof.

Cosby is ALREADY suffering before being proven guilty in court or anything. I'm not saying he shouldn't if he's actually guilty, but the "innocent until proven guilty" is not working in practice in the "public court" as it were.

Women can be as indifferent about the suffering of men as they want, but, such as in this case, it means that men would be well-advised to beware of that threat and think an extra ten times about approaching or trusting women. To me, the offensive part is just that: the indifference itself.

There have also been 3 or 4  cases here involving famous men which have been thrown out because of lack of proof or evidence despite a woman's testimony, so the word of one lady isnt enough, and if she is telling the truth she will never get her justice. 

I think its highly unlikely that Bill is innocent to be honest.