We have our own sub-forum now?

[DaveW]

HOW COOL IS THAT? ? ? ? ?
     

[JohnDB]

I didn't do it but we did listen to you.

We value everyone who claims Jesus and is interested in being a part of this community.

[Jacob Ben Avraham]

So very cool! hope many more will come to contribute, but even among Messianic believers, there are varied beliefs, so we must listen to all, take everything with a grain of salt, like the Talmud, pick out the meat and throw away the bones.  Are our views, beliefs supported by Torah?

[DaveW]

So very cool! hope many more will come to contribute, but even among Messianic believers, there are varied beliefs, so we must listen to all, take everything with a grain of salt, like the Talmud, pick out the meat and throw away the bones.  Are our views, beliefs supported by Torah?

Amen,  but we must be consistant in what we mean by "Torah." It can mean:

A - the 5 books of Moses
B - Moses plus the Prophets
C - the entire Tenach
D - the Tenach plus the Apostolic scriptures (aka New Testament)
E - the Talmuds

[notreligus]

So very cool! hope many more will come to contribute, but even among Messianic believers, there are varied beliefs, so we must listen to all, take everything with a grain of salt, like the Talmud, pick out the meat and throw away the bones.  Are our views, beliefs supported by Torah?

The Torah is not important to Jews only, but it crucial to the Christian faith.   Throughout the Torah we find Christ and how God is going to deal with the restoration of ALL of mankind.   Jews seem to want to have some special claim on the Torah.   It was written by Moses but Christ told the Pharisees that Moses had condemned them because they did not see the Christ in the writings of Moses.   

John 5:45  "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

They chose to put their hope in Moses and to reject the Christ (same meaning as Messiah).   

[erez]

So very cool! hope many more will come to contribute, but even among Messianic believers, there are varied beliefs, so we must listen to all, take everything with a grain of salt, like the Talmud, pick out the meat and throw away the bones.  Are our views, beliefs supported by Torah?

The Torah is not important to Jews only, but it crucial to the Christian faith.   Throughout the Torah we find Christ and how God is going to deal with the restoration of ALL of mankind.   Jews seem to want to have some special claim on the Torah.   It was written by Moses but Christ told the Pharisees that Moses had condemned them because they did not see the Christ in the writings of Moses.   

John 5:45  "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

They chose to put their hope in Moses and to reject the Christ (same meaning as Messiah).

What about the Jews who were chosen to be followers of the Messiah, didn't they accept him?  Or did they lose their Jewishness as a result of there faith in him?  Aren't there still a remnant of Israel who believes, even in our day?

[Shimshon]

I didn't do it but we did listen to you.

We value everyone who claims Jesus and is interested in being a part of this community.

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

[MeMyself]

I didn't do it but we did listen to you.

We value everyone who claims Jesus and is interested in being a part of this community.

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

I hope you find it to be a safe place to post.  I look forward to reading along and learning. 

[DaveW]

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

Well - if the "Catholic" forum is any indicator - expect every anti-Messianic to come here to convince themselves and everyone else how wrong we are.  I hope that does not happen, but one of the "antis" has already posted here. In the Catholic forum they needed to provide an additional sub-sub forum as a "safe house."

But at least we can discuss the Sabbath here without going to the Seventh Day Adventist forum to do so.   

[Shimshon]

I didn't do it but we did listen to you.

We value everyone who claims Jesus and is interested in being a part of this community.

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

I hope you find it to be a safe place to post.  I look forward to reading along and learning. 

Thanks, I do too.  On both counts.  Once a person learns enough to start sharing the leason becomes not one of stuffing ones head but of how to let it out in a respectable manner.  Many who think they have arrived are actually only coming full circle.  When the person realizes they have come full circle they stop getting tossed around as if in a washing machine and start walking with the motion.  That's when time seems to speed up as if on an escilator.  Others seem to turn around at this point so as not to tumble and start walking backwards to stay upright.   Sorta like trying to fly as you jump off a cliff........  It works for a while, then .....  well. 

Thanks for the welcome!  :)

[Shimshon]

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

Well - if the "Catholic" forum is any indicator - expect every anti-Messianic to come here to convince themselves and everyone else how wrong we are.  I hope that does not happen, but one of the "antis" has already posted here. In the Catholic forum they needed to provide an additional sub-sub forum as a "safe house."

But at least we can discuss the Sabbath here without going to the Seventh Day Adventist forum to do so.   

This would be why I asked.  Having been involved online within MJ for over 15yrs I know the neighborhood well. 

[DaveW]

At any rate - Shimshon, welcome to the forums!      

It would be nice if you gave us an introduction to yourself over in the Intros forum.

(oh - and I would suggest you lose the link in your siggy. You cannot post any links until you have at least 20 posts and links in signatures is one of the quickest ways to get banned.)

[Shimshon]

Yes, thanks for the warning, I mean welcome.  And why I don't frequent 'Christian' forums.  Funny too, because the link in my signiature will expose exactly who I am and have been. 

[admin]

Shimshon said:

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

Please see this post for an explanation of the intent of this sub forum: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/messianic-judaism-forum/read-first-before-posting/.

Blessings,
Admin

[Shimshon]

Thank you, sounds promising. 

[chosenone]

I didn't do it but we did listen to you.

We value everyone who claims Jesus and is interested in being a part of this community.

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

I dont understand why any Christian would have issues with Messianic Jews. After all we use the same Bible, are of equal value before God, and all worship the same Saviour.

[DaveW]

Please see this post for an explanation of the intent of this sub forum: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/messianic-judaism-forum/read-first-before-posting/.

Blessings,
Admin

Thank you for this forum.        

But I have a question: Previously, any discussion of the Sabbath was restricted to the SDA folder; not allowed in the general Theology folder. Are the pro/con Sabbath discussions to be held here in the Messianic, or in the SDA, or is that allowed in the Theo folder now?

[DaveW]

I dont understand why any Christian would have issues with Messianic Jews. After all we use the same Bible, are of equal value before God, and all worship the same Saviour.

I understand it well enough.  To some, Judaism is as false a religion as Islam or Hinduism or Voodo; so any link to Judaism puts that belief system into the same category as santaria, a mix of voodo and catholicism.

In the FaithCommunity Network forums there was a guy there who started a thread on how to effectively evangelize Messianics.

[chosenone]

I dont understand why any Christian would have issues with Messianic Jews. After all we use the same Bible, are of equal value before God, and all worship the same Saviour.

I understand it well enough.  To some, Judaism is as false a religion as Islam or Hinduism or Voodo; so any link to Judaism puts that belief system into the same category as santaria, a mix of voodo and catholicism.

In the FaithCommunity Network forums there was a guy there who started a thread on how to effectively evangelize Messianics.

How can it possibly be the same as those other faiths? We are both worshipping the true God and Jesus Christ unlike them. I cant say I have ever heard anyone say those things Dave. 

[DaveW]

How can they be the same?  You tell me.  But some have it that way. 

I have even heard from pulpits that Judaism is the same as satanism.  (probably based on that "synagoge of satan" comment in Revelation 2 and 3)

[chosenone]

How can they be the same?  You tell me.  But some have it that way. 

I have even heard from pulpits that Judaism is the same as satanism.  (probably based on that "synagoge of satan" comment in Revelation 2 and 3)

Judaism was described well by a vicar I used to know as 'incomplete,' whereas for messianic Jews it is complete, as it is with any Christian.
YOu have been to many weird churches Dave. 

[Tiny Sparrow]

I have even heard from pulpits that Judaism is the same as satanism.

And you remained sitting in the pew?
I'd have walked out of that building as soon as that heresy left the lips of the satanist in the pulpit. What a fool!

[Tiny Sparrow]

Will this serve as a place to develop relationships with the Messianic community or a place for apologetics against the Messianic community? Are we welcome to share our hearts or are we welcome to only listen to other Christian denominations tell us how wrong we are in regards to how the Spirit leads us as Messianics (Jews or Gentiles)?

I realize there needs to be a line when a Christian community engages Messianic Judaism, but is your initial perspective one of apologetics or community relations?  I prefer the latter, but will engage in the former as long as my gag isn't too tight.  What's the heart intent of this new forum?

Well - if the "Catholic" forum is any indicator - expect every anti-Messianic to come here to convince themselves and everyone else how wrong we are.  I hope that does not happen, but one of the "antis" has already posted here. In the Catholic forum they needed to provide an additional sub-sub forum as a "safe house."

But at least we can discuss the Sabbath here without going to the Seventh Day Adventist forum to do so.   

I thought the rules for this forum would preclude the "haters" from entering in. Rather those who would take issue with Messianic Judaism are told there to go to the debate forum instead.

Am I wrong? I'd not want to see this forum devolve into that kind of atmosphere.

[DaveW]

And you remained sitting in the pew?
I'd have walked out of that building as soon as that heresy left the lips of the satanist in the pulpit. What a fool!

I have heard all manner of gobbldy-gook come from various pastors.  So much that they way out weigh the good teachers of the word.

For example: someone (guest speaker at my previous congregation) went into the difference between "waiting on the Lord" (Isaiah 40:31) and "waiting UP on the Lord."

The pastor of the church I attended as a child expounded on this verse:

James 4:3 (KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

His point was you should not be asking a "miss," you should be asking your MRS.      

[Nevertheless]

James 4:3 (KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

His point was you should not be asking a "miss," you should be asking your MRS.

I've heard that told as a joke . . .

[Tiny Sparrow]

And you remained sitting in the pew?
I'd have walked out of that building as soon as that heresy left the lips of the satanist in the pulpit. What a fool!

I have heard all manner of gobbldy-gook come from various pastors.  So much that they way out weigh the good teachers of the word.

For example: someone (guest speaker at my previous congregation) went into the difference between "waiting on the Lord" (Isaiah 40:31) and "waiting UP on the Lord."

The pastor of the church I attended as a child expounded on this verse:

James 4:3 (KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

His point was you should not be asking a "miss," you should be asking your MRS.   

Sounds like they were a child too. 

But the Jews Satanic comparison is something I'd have never tolerated. I have no problem getting out and quietly leaving the church. Be it, per my position in the pew, down the center aisle or on the side aisle as my path of departure. A pastor that said that about the very community from whence Yeshua derived is not worthy of the title or the audience before him (her).

Terrible.

[DaveW]

But the Jews Satanic comparison is something I'd have never tolerated. I have no problem getting out and quietly leaving the church. Be it, per my position in the pew, down the center aisle or on the side aisle as my path of departure. A pastor that said that about the very community from whence Yeshua derived is not worthy of the title or the audience before him (her).

Their argument is that all the Jews ceased to be Jews in 70 ad when all the records were destroyed with the Temple.  Every one who calls themselves a Jew today falls into this category:

Rev 2.9b "I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

That is their honest understanding of scripture. And it fits well with Replacement theology which says that after the Lord was born, God was done with the Jews.