no Holy Ghost needed - we have the scriptures

[His Kid]

Yes it is a Stain, in that the stain is on you, one can not remove it.

Original sin is about sin, it's not about that sin is defined as being a stain.

Sin is not a stain. You are a sinner, period. The RCC teaches that it is a stain that is washed away when you are baptized into the RCC. This is the unfortunate reality for Catholics. They are not taught the Scriptural truth that they are sinners and never understand they must repent to be saved. They just go to confession, which does nothing if you have not repented to begin with.

[winsome]

By the way, original sin is not a Scriptural teaching. It is a fabrication of the RCC which lends to the complete distortion of the true richness of the sacrifice of Christ which the RCC rejects.

Without original sin there would have no need for Christ's sacrifice.

Rom 5:
12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man [Adam] and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned
13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's [Adam] trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
16 And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass [Adam's] brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification.
17 If, because of one man's [Adam] trespass, death reigned through that one man [Adam], much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Then as one man's [Adam] trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's [Jesus] act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.
19 For as by one man's [Adam] disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's [Jesus] obedience many will be made righteous.

Correction: Without the fall of man we would have no need for Jesus' sacrifice. The RCC teaches that original sin is merely a stain upon your soul and infant baptism washes away that stain. The RCC does not teach that you are a sinner and that Jesus died for your personal sins.

Ignorant Protestant tells Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches! 

[winsome]

Yes it is a Stain, in that the stain is on you, one can not remove it.

Original sin is about sin, it's not about that sin is defined as being a stain.

Sin is not a stain. You are a sinner, period. The RCC teaches that it is a stain that is washed away when you are baptized into the RCC. This is the unfortunate reality for Catholics. They are not taught the Scriptural truth that they are sinners and never understand they must repent to be saved. They just go to confession, which does nothing if you have not repented to begin with.

Ignorant Protestant tells Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches! 

[His Kid]

Yes it is a Stain, in that the stain is on you, one can not remove it.

Original sin is about sin, it's not about that sin is defined as being a stain.

Sin is not a stain. You are a sinner, period. The RCC teaches that it is a stain that is washed away when you are baptized into the RCC. This is the unfortunate reality for Catholics. They are not taught the Scriptural truth that they are sinners and never understand they must repent to be saved. They just go to confession, which does nothing if you have not repented to begin with.

Ignorant Protestant tells Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches! 

I am not a Protestant. I am a born-again Christian who was born and raised in the Catholic church and attended a Catholic school for eight years.

[winsome]

Yes it is a Stain, in that the stain is on you, one can not remove it.

Original sin is about sin, it's not about that sin is defined as being a stain.

Sin is not a stain. You are a sinner, period. The RCC teaches that it is a stain that is washed away when you are baptized into the RCC. This is the unfortunate reality for Catholics. They are not taught the Scriptural truth that they are sinners and never understand they must repent to be saved. They just go to confession, which does nothing if you have not repented to begin with.

Ignorant Protestant tells Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches! 

I am not a Protestant. I am a born-again Christian who was born and raised in the Catholic church and attended a Catholic school for eight years.

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

As to attending a Catholic school for eight years it does not seem to have profited you much.

Original Sin
The Catechism of the Catholic Church deals extensively with this in terms of the fall of man (para 396 – 412), The In Brief summary says:
416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.
417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".
418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence").

Repentance
In the section of the catechism that deals with Confession it says (again from the In Brief section to keep it simple):         
1490 The movement of return to God, called conversion and repentance, entails sorrow for and abhorrence of sins committed, and the firm purpose of sinning no more in the future. Conversion touches the past and the future and is nourished by hope in God's mercy.
1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest's absolution. the penitent's acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation.
1492 Repentance (also called contrition) must be inspired by motives that arise from faith. If repentance arises from love of charity for God, it is called "perfect" contrition; if it is founded on other motives, it is called "imperfect."

[His Kid]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

[winsome]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

[AVZ]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

[mclees8]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

And I am of Jesus Christ and only he defines me.  There is no Catholic or protestant in Gods kingdom 

And by the way the statement we don't need the Holy Spirit, we have the scriptures comes from ignorance.  Is that what the Catholic church teaches?   

[Jd34]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

That should tell you something. Its curious to me that as years pass, man seems to tweak his religion to fit his needs better.  Sometimes I wonder what another 1000 years will bring.. Hopefully Jesus will remain at center stage

[winsome]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

At least we agree that your religion (Protestantism) only started a few hundred years ago rather than being founded by Jesus Christ like the the Catholic Church.

[Catholica]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

No it wasn't.  The Catholic Church still to this day doesn't refer to herself as the Roman Catholic Church, and English is the only language in which this terminology is used, and typically not by Catholics.

The origin of the term comes from the Anglican church, which didn't exist until that adulterer and murderer Henry VIII founded it.

[Jsta Babbler]

The following important observations were made in 1851:


•We cannot allow that every private Priest or member of the Church of Rome
should give his own opinions merely as the standard of doctrine.
We will have recourse to the oracular response of the Church,
and insist that they be represented by themselves; not, however,
by private individuals, but by their legal representatives




But, then, there is nothing which they dread so much as the testimony of their own Church. ...
IT IS A PRINCIPAL AIM OF ALL [ROMAN CATHOLIC] CONTROVERTISTS TO EMPLOY
EVERY MODE OF EVASION IN ORDER TO DISCONCERT THEIR OPPOSERS.
There is even a marked difference  between the tone of these Romish Divines
  who speak dogmatically for the instruction of their own members 
and that of those who attempt to answer the objections of their antagonists.
With the former, all is matter of downright certainty;
with the latter, all is doubt, difficulty, subterfuge, and evasion .

When the faithful are to be instructed, every Priest becomes the sure depositary
of the infallible decisions of an infallible Church;

but when Protestants are to be confuted,
the declarations of their most illustrious men are of no authority.
Councils are discovered to have been but partly approved
Popes did not speak ex cathedra;
Cardinals and Bishops are but private Doctors;
And who cares for the opinion of an obscure Priest or Friar?

Thus nothing is so difficult as to know what the belief of Roman Catholics really is; and
WHEN A PROTESTANT ADDUCES THEIR OWN WRITERS AS WITNESSES,
HE IS FREQUENTLY TOLD THAT HE {The Catholic Writter} IS A MISREPRESENTER OF THEIR CHURCH

(Charles Elliott, Delineation of Roman Catholicism, London: John Mason, 1851, p. 23).

[winsome]

Thus nothing is so difficult as to know what the belief of Roman Catholics really is; and

Actually it's not difficilt at all. There are authoritive documents (such as the Catechism of the Cathollic Church) and the dogmatic statements of Councils and Popes. The problem is that Protestants prefer anecdotal stuff from someone who once went to a Catholic school or was an altar boy 50 years ago, and false claims made on Protestants web sites.

[Catholica]

The following important observations were made in 1851:


•We cannot allow that every private Priest or member of the Church of Rome
should give his own opinions merely as the standard of doctrine.
We will have recourse to the oracular response of the Church,
and insist that they be represented by themselves; not, however,
by private individuals, but by their legal representatives




But, then, there is nothing which they dread so much as the testimony of their own Church. ...
IT IS A PRINCIPAL AIM OF ALL [ROMAN CATHOLIC] CONTROVERTISTS TO EMPLOY
EVERY MODE OF EVASION IN ORDER TO DISCONCERT THEIR OPPOSERS.
There is even a marked difference  between the tone of these Romish Divines
  who speak dogmatically for the instruction of their own members 
and that of those who attempt to answer the objections of their antagonists.
With the former, all is matter of downright certainty;
with the latter, all is doubt, difficulty, subterfuge, and evasion .

When the faithful are to be instructed, every Priest becomes the sure depositary
of the infallible decisions of an infallible Church;

but when Protestants are to be confuted,
the declarations of their most illustrious men are of no authority.
Councils are discovered to have been but partly approved
Popes did not speak ex cathedra;
Cardinals and Bishops are but private Doctors;
And who cares for the opinion of an obscure Priest or Friar?

Thus nothing is so difficult as to know what the belief of Roman Catholics really is; and
WHEN A PROTESTANT ADDUCES THEIR OWN WRITERS AS WITNESSES,
HE IS FREQUENTLY TOLD THAT HE {The Catholic Writter} IS A MISREPRESENTER OF THEIR CHURCH

(Charles Elliott, Delineation of Roman Catholicism, London: John Mason, 1851, p. 23).

Except that we have these handy little documents called "The Catechism of the Council of Trent" (which existed at the time of this writing) and now "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" as well as easy access to the decrees of all the ecumenical councils right at our fingertips as well as the text of the two ex cathedra declarations.

These are sure sources to go to even if a priest or bishop should teach this or that in error.

[AVZ]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

No it wasn't.  The Catholic Church still to this day doesn't refer to herself as the Roman Catholic Church, and English is the only language in which this terminology is used, and typically not by Catholics.

The origin of the term comes from the Anglican church, which didn't exist until that adulterer and murderer Henry VIII founded it.

Who uses the term "Roman Catholic" or who doesn't is not relevant.
Winsome asserts that the term was defined by Protestants, which is incorrect. The term "Roman Catholics" or "Roman Catholic Christians" was defined in the 4th century, pointing to those who were following the Latin Rite and See in Rome.

I know it is a very popular thought under Catholics to say that the term was invented at the time of the Reformation and meant to be an insult.
Similarly Protestants say their name was given in an attempt to insult by Catholics.
Both claims are ridiculous and it really makes no sense to whine over such trivial matters.

[AVZ]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

At least we agree that your religion (Protestantism) only started a few hundred years ago rather than being founded by Jesus Christ like the the Catholic Church.

Who really gives a sniff how old a term is or when a term was defined.
You want the age of a definition to be an indicator of its validity?

Here I got two for you:
1) Papal Infallibility -> defined in 1870
2) Assumption of Mary -> defined in 1950

[trifecta]

Let me be more clear about the term Catholic as applied to the church.

The original Christian church became known at the Catholic Church.  Catholic originally did not mean universal (the Greek word for that is ecumenical).  It roughly translates into completeness or wholeness.   

Evidence.  First appearance in writing  Ignatious

"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. "

You got the bishop's approval, you got the people gathered -  What do you have?  universality, no,  you have completeness.

In those days there were not one but five patriarchates, one of whom was from Rome.  Therefore, the Roman Catholic becomes someone in the Catholic church (under the five patriarchates) who is under Rome.

It was the Catholic Church and the Orthodox (right teaching, right worship) faith.  The church splits at 450 when the Coptic Church leaves and the remaining three are the Orthodox Church which splits in 1050.   Therefore, the only church left is the RCC that uses the term Catholic in its title.

[Catholica]

The term "Roman Catholics" or "Roman Catholic Christians" was defined in the 4th century, pointing to those who were following the Latin Rite and See in Rome.

Evidence please.

[kensington]

Ignorant Protestant tells Catholics what the Catholic Church teaches!

Oh stop with your childish name calling.  Anyone who can read can look up what the CC or any church teaches.  Just because someone is not Catholic, it does not mean they cannot find information.

My husband was raised in the Catholic Church and left as an adult by his own choice.  He is not a Catholic. Do you suppose to say he does not know what they teach?  Just give it a rest. 

[kensington]

At least we agree that your religion (Protestantism) only started a few hundred years ago rather than being founded by Jesus Christ like the the Catholic Church.

I personally think this comment is an insult to believers and should be a violation of the rules of this site.  I'm tired of you saying it.

1. This is a Protestant site.
2.  Jesus called all people to believe and be saved.  Not practice a religion or to judge others who didn't do it their way.  All of the Apostles taught differently and none of them called anyone to what you claim.  It's nonsense. It's childish and there is nothing Christian about such comments.  Protestants are believers in Jesus Christ who died for our sins. We are his people, His church, awaiting His return for us.  We will dwell with Him forever and none of your silly insulting Catechism dribble will change that.

Get over yourself.  None of you act or talk like Jesus. You all wrap yourselves in religiousness that doesn't look anything like Him.  It's so sad.

[Paulus]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

That is incorrect.
The term "Roman Church", "Roman Catholic Church" or "Holy Roman Church" originates and was defined over 1600 years ago, more than 1000 years before "our religion" even started.

No it wasn't.  The Catholic Church still to this day doesn't refer to herself as the Roman Catholic Church, and English is the only language in which this terminology is used, and typically not by Catholics.

I must correct this .

Pope Pius XI in his encyclical letter DIVINI ILLIUS MAGISTRI wrote : " In the City of God, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, a good citizen and an upright man are absolutely one and the same thing. "

Pope Pius XII in his encyclical letter HUMANI GENERIS wrote : " The Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. "

And there are other instances where Popes have referred to the Catholic Church as the Roman Catholic Church .

I post this simply for accuracy and fairness .

[His Kid]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

Well maybe you should argue with Protestants, then. I'm not one of them. I am an x-Catholic, now a born-again Christian, and I know full well what Catholicism teaches. That is precisely THE REASON I LEFT!

[kensington]

Best reason ever.

I think the Catholic Church teaches out of both sides of their face. 

On one hand they say time and time again that no one can leave the Catholic Church and those who have are still Catholic who need to repent.

But, on the other side of their face they say you are a Protestant if you are not Catholic. 

They seem to think they get to do all of the declaring for everyone, inspite of what God has said, or the Word of God has said. 

I declare... they are more confused than those who leave or who never were the Catholic Church.

[winsome]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

Well maybe you should argue with Protestants, then. I'm not one of them. I am an x-Catholic, now a born-again Christian, and I know full well what Catholicism teaches. That is precisely THE REASON I LEFT!

As I clearly showed earlier you do NOT know whjat the Catholic Church teaches.

I'm a born again Christian also. All Catholics are.

[winsome]

Anyone who can read can look up what the CC or any church teaches.  Just because someone is not Catholic, it does not mean they cannot find information. 

Of course they can find out. That is the point I was making earlier. The problem is they don't.

[wincam]

Well being that we all have the HS inside us if we are believers, God clearly thinks differently.

a gross mistake error and confusion and division and diabolical nonsense being attributed to the Holy Spirit via claimed false inspiration imho if this is not blasphemy what is - see Jn.14:17 - wincam

[wincam]

If you are not a Catholic and not an Orthodox then you are a Protestant.

No, I'm not. Sorry, your religion doesn't get to define me. The privilege belongs to God alone. The arrogance of the RCC never ceases to amaze me.

Well the ignorance of Protestants who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches when they have just had a few years schooling never ceases to amaze me.

And I'm not RCC! I belong to the Catholic Church. RCC is your religion's definition.

And I am of Jesus Christ and only he defines me.  There is no Catholic or protestant in Gods kingdom 

And by the way the statement we don't need the Holy Spirit, we have the scriptures comes from ignorance.  Is that what the Catholic church teaches?

actually the statement is more or less correct and more more than less - we do need the Holy Spirit but not in the way shape and form we are being asked and even forced to accept as blasphemy that He glibly has and still inspires all and sundry but not just one individual and is therefore the cause and instigator of wide spread way out, weird and wacky division and confusion ad infinitum and ad absurdum - wincam

[Hexalpa]

No holy ghost needed - we have scriptures = Political Correctness.
The works of man will never cut it, their are three in one the Farther the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Without the Holy Ghost their is nothing but the works of man.

[wincam]

not at all at all for Scriptures are the work of the Holy Spirit, adding or subtracting nothing  but bringing to mind and remembrance and memory all that Jesus said[Jn.14:26] - wincam

[l.a.providence]

next time you suddenly remember a passage remember the indwelling holy spirit brought it up...

[wincam]

next time you suddenly remember a passage remember the indwelling holy spirit brought it up...

not at all - that is the problem not the solution - all and sundry claiming inspiration by the Holy Spirit  indwelling resulting in chaos, confusion, division, divergence, contradictions etc and all becoming attributable to the indwelling Holy Spirit = blasphemy  - wincam

[l.a.providence]

praying!