Game changer unfortunately...

[PeteWaldo]

I agree Pete. If Israel was pushed into the Mediterranean and ALL of their land given to the Palestinians, it would not change one thing with the followers of the Satanic religion Islam.

Could not be more conspicuously inspired by the jealous fallen angel Satan himself. The specifically counter-gospel, antichrist, anti-religion of Islam is to the Gospel, as the negative is to a photograph. To deny and blaspheme the Son of God:

Surah 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

To disbelieve the crucifixion of Christ and thus reject His shed blood, as another article of their faith in THE false prophet Muhammad alone:

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus ..... but they killed him not, nor crucified him ..... for of a surety they killed him not:-

[PeteWaldo]

All, and I repeat, all must convert or die. This is the very foundation of Islam. No one is of that perverted religion if they don't believe this or don't practice the Jihad demanded in this. Islam is and always has been a crime against humanity. There are no degrees of Islam. No mild, moderate, hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, or radical. If you are true to belief, you practice Jihad and either convert all or kill all.

It is so sad and tragic, that the world has been so blinded by Satan, to simple truth that is so available, particularly in this time of the end.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Tyler's so-called "Palestinian", Muslim peeps, that he is wittingly or unwittingly helping conquer Israel, and subjugate Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to Muhammad's followers.

When is the world going to call it as it is? How many more have to die at the hands of this evil before the crime that is Islam is treated as any other crime against humanity? This is not a religion with associated rights. This is perversion, and evil, and anti to God. And even for those without a belief in God, this is anti to humanity!

Indeed. Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

There is hardly a thing that The Islamic State has done, that Muhammad didn't do and/or command his followers to do. From slaughter of children and others, to raping and sexually enslaving women and little girls, to prostituting and selling them off into slavery to raise money to advance the imperialistic conquest of Islamic Jihad.

Wake up world!!!!

Wake up indeed!

[RB]

Your supersessionism has landed you squarely in the camp of Israel's enemies.

Sir, I read a few post made by you from two different threads~while I commend your natural abilities to write and debate, and your knowledge of Islam and its wicked religion (which I fully agree with, by the way) yet, you are wrong on many fronts concerning eschatology, and your system does puts you in natural Israel's camp, but at the same time puts you in God's and his Son Jesus Christ enemies camp, which is where no one should desire to be, and should labor NOT to be. You have accused Christians of holding to supersessionism, better known as Replacement Theology, by the Fundamentalist camp~yet we KNOW that your theology concerning the Everlasting Covenant was NOT made with Abraham's natural seed, but with Jesus Christ and HIS SEED, which are made up of Jews (mostly from the OT, and Gentiles, mostly coming from post Christ's death and resurrection. You may accuse Christians of supersessionism, yet we KNOW who is guilty of robbing the SEED of Jesus Christ, and giving their promises to a bunch of unbelieving, antichristians, renegades who are not much different than their half brothers.  The nation of Israel are just as blinded as any follower of the god Allah and his false prophet Muhammad. You come here and teach that the beast of Revelation is the Islamic religion, which you will never be able to prove with using only the scriptures.  I fully agree that they are part of the beast, just as Catholicism, Mormonism, and all of the other "ISM" outside of the truth~but to limit them to the beast show that you are missing the true enemies of JESUS CHRIST, who work within the professing faith of Christianity. So much more could be said, but I am sure this will light the fire for more discussions, which I desire for you to start with Matthew 24, where Christ warns us of our true enemies. Islam is easy to see and not so hard to avoid as false and wicked. They are fighting the WORLD, whereas, the churches enemies are fighting us "from WITHIN". You sir, are fighting the wrong enemy.   

[doorknocker]

Your supersessionism has landed you squarely in the camp of Israel's enemies.

Sir, I read a few post made by you from two different threads~while I commend your natural abilities to write and debate, and your knowledge of Islam and its wicked religion (which I fully agree with, by the way) yet, you are wrong on many fronts concerning eschatology, and your system puts you also not in natural Israel's camp, but God's and his Son Jesus Christ, which is where no one should desire to be, and should labor NOT to be. You have accused Christians of holding to supersessionism, better known as Replacement Theology, by the Fundamentalist camp~yet we KNOW that your theology concerning the Everlasting Covenant was NOT made with Abraham's natural seed, but with Jesus Christ and HIS SEED, which are made up of Jews (mostly from the OT, and Gentiles, mostly coming from post Christ's death and resurrection. You may accuse Christians of supersessionism, yet we KNOW who is guilty of robbing the SEED of Jesus Christ, and giving their promises to a bunch of unbelieving, antichristians, renegades who are not much different than their half brothers.  The nation of Israel are just as blinded as any follower of the god Allah and his false prophet Muhammad. You come here and teach that the beast of Revelation is the Islamic religion, which you will never be able to prove with using only the scriptures.  I fully agree that they are part of the beast, just as Catholicism, Mormonism, and all of the other "ISM" outside of the truth~but to limit them to the beast show that you are missing the true enemies of JESUS CHRIST, who work within the professing faith of Christianity. So much more could be said, but I am sure this will light the fire for more discussions, which I desire for you to start with Matthew 24, where Christ warns us of our true enemies. Islam is easy to see and not so hard to avoid as false and wicked. They are fighting the WORLD, whereas, the churches enemies are fighting us "from WITHIN". You sir, are fighting the wrong enemy.   

I agree.

[TruthScientist]

where does morality start and begin in Christianity...  does it have an end?  when do we lay aside faith depend upon our own human logic...?

[TonkaTim]

I agree as well Brother Red. The greater enemy is definitely within.

[crowcamp]

Greater or lesser, fighting the world or from within, does it really matter? Right now, at this moment, at this juncture of time, we all have a clear and present enemy in Islam. There is a time and place for all battles and the most necessary battle is against those who are right now trying to kill us all.

This is not the time for wandering off in the weeds with distractions from threats less immediate. This is the time for right minded, clear thinking people to confront the evil that is Islam. Win this one, then deal with the others. Lose this one and the other battles are meaningless.

[RB]

Lose this one and the other battles are meaningless.

Short on time, so this will short. Brother, God has not call his people to war agaisnt FLESH AND BLOOD!  So many good people, even children of God get caught up fighting the wrong battles.

Ephesians 6:10-13~"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Our warfare is spiritual, NOT carnal. We war against evil spirits working through men, who come in sheep clothing, but inwardly they are wolves out to destroy the sheep. Brother, I will not fight Islam/Muslims, for they do not prose a threat to the true gospel of Jesus Christ and all doctrines connected to his gospel. I will not fear those wicked men who worship a false god called Allah. They cannot hurt me, or any other child of God without going through the Mighty God of Jacob~Jacob, being the elect of God in Jesus Christ. This is the only house/tabernacle that is the apple of His holy eye. This is the house that he shall reign over world without end. Luke 1:33! Again my brother, Islam is NO threat to the seed of Jesus Christ, our enemies crept in unawares! Jude 3. One more thought, please...you said:

This is the time for right minded, clear thinking people to confront the evil that is Islam.

Well, the nations of this world are fighting this battle, why should saints fight it? This war is is more against the nations of this world, than against TRUTH.  If truth was indeed part of of this war, then the world would NOT be fighting this war, specially for God's elect! They hate us more than they hate Muslims/Islam.   

[TruthScientist]

GOD is The GOD of war...  he defends HIS people when they need defending and cry out in prayer against the hostilities of their enemies.  but know this, that bloodshed and carnage does not win wars.  Warfare is deeper than the flesh and bombs only drive the loser of particular battles underground.  and if GOD does not allow them to be exterminated (the mind set) they will reoccur at sometime or place usually worse than the last time...

if our leaders don't understand the value of peace and prefer to stand on a mountain top and direct attacks we are in trouble...  but if they understand that there must be a meeting of the minds to fix the attitude of war...

most certainly until clarity can be brought forth people have to be protected and defended... 

there will be wars and rumors of war...

[crowcamp]

I will not fight Islam/Muslims, for they do not prose a threat to the true gospel of Jesus Christ and all doctrines connected to his gospel. I will not fear those wicked men who worship a false god called Allah. They cannot hurt me, or any other child of God without going through the Mighty God of Jacob~Jacob, being the elect of God in Jesus Christ.-RB

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding. Don't pose a threat? Cannot hurt you or any other child of God? So you are saying none of the millions this evil of Islam has killed over the centuries were children of God?

You wish to only fight a spiritual battle? Well, dead people cannot fight any battles! Do you instruct your wife, your children, your loved ones and friends to fight only spiritual battles? And if the evil of Islam finds them with the intent of raping them, torturing them, loping the heads off of them, you tell them what- shout "The Lord rebukes you"? And when the evil is done with them you will be completely baffled by the fact they are now all dead?!!!!!!!

Our Lord does not instruct us to be stupid. Stupid people did not defeat Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Children of God won those battles. And they did not do it by shouting "The Lord rebukes you". There is a time for peace and a time for war. There is no question, none, zero as to what time we find ourselves in. We may not like it, may not want it, but we are here and this is the time.  As it was in WWII, either we allow the rulers of darkness to win or we don't. And as it was then, it is now; your choice. You either stand up and fight or lay down and die. Your choice.

[PeteWaldo]

Your supersessionism has landed you squarely in the camp of Israel's enemies.

Sir, I read a few post made by you from two different threads~while I commend your natural abilities to write and debate, and your knowledge of Islam and its wicked religion (which I fully agree with, by the way) yet, you are wrong on many fronts concerning eschatology, and your system does puts you in natural Israel's camp, ......

I'll respond for the benefit of others.
It is true I support the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination afforded by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish state that is extended to Israeli Jews, Christians and other not Muslim Arabs, as well as Muslims, where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth.
As directly opposed to the alternative, which is the slavery and bondage of Islamic sharia law, as in the case of the enemies surrounding Israel's democracy that would impose sharia law on Israeli Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims who share our western values and would simply like to be left alone with the freedom to continue on in productive enterprise.

...... but at the same time puts you in God's and his Son Jesus Christ enemies camp, which is where no one should desire to be, and should labor NOT to be.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Which in this case helps to advance the Islamic conquest of the world, with Israel being just another front, during this Second Islamic Jihad. But what are those who stand idly by, or anti-Zionists that actually rail against Israel, responsible for as global anti-Zionists compel Israel to offer up even more of the fruit of their sweat labor to their enemies, as in the case of Gaza.

From WND "Christians warned: Accept Islamic law"
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
The militant leader said Christians in Gaza who engage in "missionary activity" will be "dealt with harshly."

You have accused Christians of holding to supersessionism, better known as Replacement Theology,.......

Is supersessionism supposed to be something new to the Christian community? You write as though it was an unreasonable presumption, while your words suggest that you don't believe God had any further plan for Jews during this Christian era. That the prophesies regarding the restoration of Jews to their land, as anticipated by great men of God of the Reformation centuries before they began to be fulfilled, is perhaps just some sort of a peculiar accident?
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/politics/game-changer-unfortunately/msg1055001018/#msg1055001018

The fruit of supersessionism certainly hasn't been uncommon during this Christian era:

Pope Clement VIII: "The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people."

Pope Innocent III: "The Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord." (To the Archbishops of Sens and Paris)

Pope Leo VII: "Let the Gospel be preached unto them and, if they remain obstinate, let them be expelled."

Pope Benedict XIV: "It is fitting for Jews to serve Christians, but not for Christians to serve Jews. On the contrary, the Jews, as slaves rejected by that Saviour Whose death they wickedly contrived, should recognize themselves in fact and in creed the slaves of those whom the death of Christ has set free, even as it has rendered them bondmen." (Quoting Pope Innocent III, "Etsi Judaeos")

......... by the Fundamentalist camp~yet we KNOW that your theology concerning the Everlasting Covenant was NOT made with Abraham's natural seed, but with Jesus Christ and HIS SEED, which are made up of Jews (mostly from the OT, and Gentiles, mostly coming from post Christ's death and resurrection. You may accuse Christians of supersessionism, yet we KNOW who is guilty of robbing the SEED of Jesus Christ, and giving their promises to a bunch of unbelieving, antichristians, renegades who are not much different than their half brothers.  The nation of Israel are just as blinded as any follower of the god Allah and his false prophet Muhammad.

Though I would suggest the difference is that some faithful Jews may remain blinded by God Himself:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/why-do-so-many-call-israel-'palestine'-and-some-israelis-'palestinians'/msg1055001075/#msg1055001075

While there can be no question that Satan has blinded Muhammad's followers through his specifically counter-gospel, antichrist, anti-religion of Islam - as articles of their "faith" - in THE false prophet Muhammad alone.

You come here and teach that the beast of Revelation is the Islamic religion, which you will never be able to prove with using only the scriptures.

Why would you choose to lodge empty, hollow accusation, rather than quoting and then responding to, the post in which I specifically made the case through scripture as further confirmed by the historical record?
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1054999136/#msg1054999136

Why did you fail to reply to my post in which I asked you what apostate Christianity has to do with a leopard, bear and lion?
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1054999606/#msg1054999606

I fully agree that they are part of the beast, just as Catholicism, Mormonism, and all of the other "ISM" outside of the truth~but to limit them to the beast show that you are missing the true enemies of JESUS CHRIST, who work within the professing faith of Christianity.

I do believe false worship of God may well be the subject of the "great whore", and the "mother of harlots" perhaps being even more specific.

However I wasn't the only one that observed your abject failure to make the case for your unique, one-off idea, of apostate Christianity as the "beast" of Revelation 13.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1055000334/#msg1055000334

So much more could be said, but I am sure this will light the fire for more discussions, which I desire for you to start with Matthew 24,........

I'm well familiar with the passage, as I have engaged in many discussions with preterists and partial-preterists in that regard.

.......where Christ warns us of our true enemies. Islam is easy to see and not so hard to avoid as false and wicked. They are fighting the WORLD, ......

Sure they are fighting the world and even specifically Christians and Jews, because that's what Satan commands them to do through the Quran and Hadith until they conquer the whole world, and subjugate all people, to denying the Son of God and disbelieving His crucifixion and thus rejecting His shed blood as articles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone:

Ishaq:204/ Tabari VI:134 "'Men of the Khazraj, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man.' 'Yes,' they answered. 'In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging ourselves to wage war against all mankind.'"

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Could you possibly be so woefully ignorant to the articles of faith of the followers of THE false prophet Muhammad you are unaware of them? Are you suggesting that they must deny the crucifixion of Christ, and thus the saving grace of His shed blood, because they are "fighting the world"?

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Did you know Muhammad's followers are taught that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in His name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and only unforgivable sin in Muhammad's cult?
Are you saying they must deny and blaspheme the Son of God, as another article of their faith in Muhammad alone, because they are "fighting the world"?

Surah 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Are you saying they believe Jesus will return to "break the cross" because they are fighting the world?

Bukhari B34 #425: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts.

...... whereas, the churches enemies are fighting us "from WITHIN".

As that "man of sin" ever increasingly, is seated in the "temple of God" - the body of Christ.
And evermore so during this prophesied "falling away" or apostasy of the "church", as it sinks further into ecumenism and even interfaith pluralism, as exampled by the Washington National Cathedral even hosting the blasphemy of Islamic prayer services.

Yet you amusingly seem to be suggesting that the world, can see the evil of Islam, from George Bush's proclamation in the wake of 9-11, and amazingly almost universally ever increasingly proclaiming that "we are not at war with Islam". Even Islam is exactly what is at war against the non-Islamic world.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

You sir, are fighting the wrong enemy.

While you have chosen to aid and abet Israel's enemies, through at a minimum, your apparent desire to do little other than to put your effort into further dividing the body of Christ.

[RB]

You wish to only fight a spiritual battle?

Maybe I did not make myself plain. I would fight them in a battle, because of their hatred for all that are not of their faith, and because of the wickedness of them killing innocent people~ and I would desire all of my nine grandsons to go war against such people. But, as far a them being a spiritual foe, they pose no threat to children of God, for all can see through their false worship and system, it really takes no insight to see just how wicked they are all in the name of religion. Islam attack on the Trade buildings was not a attack upon children of God, but America and her greatness over such nations where Muslims dwell.   Such wicked and cowardly acts, deserve our wrath as a nation against such people, and I fully support these wars and battles.   

[RB]

I'll respond for the benefit of others.

Same here, but later, since it is getting late for me to do so. One quick word, you quoted:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

Would you truly want to know more about Edmund Burke's religious beliefs? Strange that you quoted behind him?

Although Burke was a forceful defender of the Church of England, his view that a revealed religion was indispensable to a society's progress was not limited to Christianity. In a speech before the House of Commons, Burke commended the "Hindoo Religion" for contributing to the "flourishing" of India.  Similarly, he lauded Islamic governments for having the "double sanction of law and religion."~source of information~Wikipedia

Wow! Are you blushing? You should be. More later.

[crowcamp]

You wish to only fight a spiritual battle?

Maybe I did not make myself plain. I would fight them in a battle, because of their hatred for all that are not of their faith, and because of the wickedness of them killing innocent people~ and I would desire all of my nine grandsons to go war against such people. But, as far a them being a spiritual foe, they pose no threat to children of God, for all can see through their false worship and system, it really takes no insight to see just how wicked they are all in the name of religion. Islam attack on the Trade buildings was not a attack upon children of God, but America and her greatness over such nations where Muslims dwell.   Such wicked and cowardly acts, deserve our wrath as a nation against such people, and I fully support these wars and battles.   

Well, by every possible way I could read it, that did not appear to be what you were saying. I will take this post for what it's worth and leave it at that.

BTW, no one is a threat to the children of God as a spiritual foe, so that might explain my confusion from what you posted. 

[Jaime]

I was confused as well. Thanks for clarifying Red.

[Hexalpa]

I will not fight Islam/Muslims, for they do not prose a threat to the true gospel of Jesus Christ and all doctrines connected to his gospel. I will not fear those wicked men who worship a false god called Allah. They cannot hurt me, or any other child of God without going through the Mighty God of Jacob~Jacob, being the elect of God in Jesus Christ.-RB

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding. Don't pose a threat? Cannot hurt you or any other child of God? So you are saying none of the millions this evil of Islam has killed over the centuries were children of God?

You wish to only fight a spiritual battle? Well, dead people cannot fight any battles! Do you instruct your wife, your children, your loved ones and friends to fight only spiritual battles? And if the evil of Islam finds them with the intent of raping them, torturing them, loping the heads off of them, you tell them what- shout "The Lord rebukes you"? And when the evil is done with them you will be completely baffled by the fact they are now all dead?!!!!!!!

Our Lord does not instruct us to be stupid. Stupid people did not defeat Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Children of God won those battles. And they did not do it by shouting "The Lord rebukes you". There is a time for peace and a time for war. There is no question, none, zero as to what time we find ourselves in. We may not like it, may not want it, but we are here and this is the time.  As it was in WWII, either we allow the rulers of darkness to win or we don't. And as it was then, it is now; your choice. You either stand up and fight or lay down and die. Your choice.

WWII was won by the children of God ?
I don't know about that, Churchill was not a person one could call a Christian and at his level of a Freemason, such people of his rank the Christian God does not cut it to them. 
Churchill said in 1960 the war was about the banks and only all to do with money, Hitler threatened that system, so they had to attack.
Nothing to do with Christianity I am sure and the fact is Christianity has been in a state of decline from then on, is a testament to that fact.

We may of won the war, but we have been losing the battle, just look at it all now, Socialism is rampant as is Political Correctness, Sounds like the Nazi's and commos have won to me ? 
People fear of speaking out and freedom of speech is under attack and Christianity is attacked from all sides and all the weirdo's and bloody mossies have the read carpet rolled out to them, as if they were royalty ! while our own people are treated as second rate citizens. 

[PeteWaldo]

I'll respond for the benefit of others.

Same here, .....

And we thank you for that since all can see that your reply, once again, failed to include a single substantive response to the points in my reply to you. And you might not have found all this so embarrassing if you hadn't made the empty, hollow, unsupported, yet emphatic claim......

"You come here and teach that the beast of Revelation is the Islamic religion, which you will never be able to prove with using only the scriptures."

.....in regard to a reasonably hermeneutically supported exegesis of the beast of Revelation 13, which regards Daniel's definition of the term "beast"as a kingdom when used in the context of the figurative language of a prophetic dream, as well as how the geographical seats of Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom beasts relate to the seat of the leopard-bear-lion composite kingdom beast in John's prophetic vision, by using the methodology of hermeneutics. In this case arrived at through an adjacent hermeneutic.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1054999136/#msg1054999136

Your empty proclamation even though you never got to first base in explaining what apostate Christianity has to do with a leopard, bear and lion, but instead continue to repeatedly ignore the question.

..... but later, since it is getting late for me to do so. One quick word, you quoted:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

Would you truly want to know more about Edmund Burke's religious beliefs? Strange that you quoted behind him?

Although Burke was a forceful defender of the Church of England, his view that a revealed religion was indispensable to a society's progress was not limited to Christianity. In a speech before the House of Commons, Burke commended the "Hindoo Religion" for contributing to the "flourishing" of India.  Similarly, he lauded Islamic governments for having the "double sanction of law and religion."~source of information~Wikipedia

Wow! Are you blushing? You should be. More later.

Muslims also have a habit of attacking the messenger, as you did Edmund Burke, when they are unable to respond to the content of the message, and particularly when they realize that it hits too close to home.
So why don't you begin by explaining to us what the merit, of Burke's popular stand-alone quote, has to do with who authored it.
Then please explain how the content of an identical sequence of the same words, would communicate a different message, if it had been penned by a different author.

Perhaps you are the one that should be "blushing", since your attack on the messenger may indicate that you may well believe Burke's quote applies to you - as a best case scenario.
However if rather than having an opinion that nothing should be done to support the Israeli's right to self-defense, you are instead actually anti-Zionist and outspoken against the Israelis, you would of course be doing far worse than nothing by aiding and abetting Islam's imperialistic conquest of Israeli Jews, Christians, and non-Muslim Arabs toward eventual subjugation to Islamic sharia law and dhimmitude. Just as what happened when the anti-Zionists compelled the Israelis to abandon Gaza to their enemies. Guilty of aiding and abetting Islam's continuing, and 1400 year running, goal of imperialistic conquest of the world and subjugation of all non-Muslims to Muhammad's followers.
There are, after all, only two sides in the conflict of significance. Muslims VS non-Muslims.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/why-do-so-many-call-israel-'palestine'-and-some-israelis-'palestinians'/

[crowcamp]

WWII was won by the children of God ? - Hexalpa

Absolutely, without a single doubt. That does not mean every individual who led or fought in battle was a child of God, but the collective effort was as classic as it gets of good overcoming evil. Children of God put their lives on the line to defeat the forces of darkness. Good overcame evil.

And if, as you state, we are now losing the battle, it does once again call on the children of God to put forth the effort for the light to win over the darkness. Good versus evil; in this fallen world it has always been and always will be so.

[RB]

you are instead actually anti-Zionist and outspoken against the Israelis, you would of course be doing far worse than nothing by aiding and abetting Islam's imperialistic conquest of Israeli Jews, Christians

Sir, nothing is farther from the truth than your bold lie~a logical fallacy from men like you, when you encounter believers like myself who reject natural Israel as being the main focus of bible prophecy, when in truth, they are not even under consideration. Our standing firm upon the scriptures on bible prophecy does not make one anti-Zionist, and certainly not as you said~ aiding and abetting "Islam's imperialistic conquest of Israeli Jews, Christians".  As I read all of your post, all I see is a multitudes of words, with very little biblical exegesis, only eisegesis. Now allow me first to go to Revelation 13, and then I want you to come and start where Jesus left his last message concerning eschatology and the end time, and let us test it with your understanding~they are worlds apart. We shall see that the beast of Revelation makes war with the saints, NOT WITH THE WORLD. The WORLD wonders after the beast with admiration, and security , and said with much confidence :

Revelation 13:3,4~"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?:

I will have it for you soon, the Lord willing.

[TruthScientist]

WWII was won by the children of God ? - Hexalpa

Absolutely, without a single doubt. That does not mean every individual who led or fought in battle was a child of God, but the collective effort was as classic as it gets of good overcoming evil. Children of God put their lives on the line to defeat the forces of darkness. Good overcame evil.

And if, as you state, we are now losing the battle, it does once again call on the children of God to put forth the effort for the light to win over the darkness. Good versus evil; in this fallen world it has always been and always will be so.

children of God???

[crowcamp]

You don't know who is a child of God, TS?

[TruthScientist]

You don't know who is a child of God, TS?

it was said that they won the war... lots of soldiers were not even Christians I would imagine...  so what was meant was general

[LexKnight]

Wasn't it Einstein and a few secretive engineers and scientists that won the war for the US?

[Hexalpa]

WWII was won by the children of God ? - Hexalpa

Absolutely, without a single doubt. That does not mean every individual who led or fought in battle was a child of God, but the collective effort was as classic as it gets of good overcoming evil. Children of God put their lives on the line to defeat the forces of darkness. Good overcame evil.

And if, as you state, we are now losing the battle, it does once again call on the children of God to put forth the effort for the light to win over the darkness. Good versus evil; in this fallen world it has always been and always will be so.

God ? Children of God ?

One may have to look into why the Germans Italians Japs etc  went down the path they did ?
Were they treated well before WWII, what angered them ? why did it all get to the point that it did ?
Mother England was nearly destroyed and all, was it worth it all ?

There are many questions to all this and we could say why is all the problems with the Arab States, what makes them do all this that's going on nowadays.
Could we in the west done better or are we mislead or stupid. Major Bernard Gaynor points out how moronic our governments are and the moronic defence force do not know their enemy, nor do they understand them and nor do they care.
Our Defence force are run by hopeless morons with sh-- for brains, we had the top brass who did not know if He was she and ran around with a Political Correct wand.

Our governments just say get used to it  ? so we have to put up with all this madness that's going on with Terrorist blowing up innocent people.
I don't think people go to such lengths for just nothing, are we being misled some how.

The works of Satan brings about all wars and I am sure of that and no war is a good war, because it does more harm than good.

[crowcamp]

Good versus evil. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be in this physical existence. My definition of a child of God might differ from others, but I consider anyone who stands on the side of good as, at least for that time, a child of God.

That's all. Nothing more. Make personal take.

[TruthScientist]

a child of God is a true believer in the work of Jesus Christ and God through HIM...  HE is then our Father...  no matter how good you are at any point you do not qualify without Jesus being your savior...

[crowcamp]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God". In the Old Testament, Israelites are referred to as "the people of God" in a couple of places (Judges, 2 Samuel, eg.) As already stated, it is my personal term for anyone striving for good and against evil. Nothing more.

I don't quibble with your definition, TS, as it is your definition, but it would eliminate the Israelites and it seems the Bible states otherwise. That is, if the "people of God" are also considered His children.

[RB]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God".

What is the difference between son/children of God and child of God? Are they not one and same? If one is born of God, then he is a child of God. John 1:12; Romans 8:17-19; All of 1st John; 1 Peter 2:10 and many hundred more. This does not leave out any nation upon the earth. Beside the elect among Jewish nation from OT were His children, and even now some are, though not many~just as not many Gentiles were during the OT.

[crowcamp]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God".

What is the difference between son/children of God and child of God? Are they not one and same? If one is born of God, then he is a child of God. John 1:12; Romans 8:17-19; All of 1st John; 1 Peter 2:10 and many hundred more. This does not leave out any nation upon the earth. Beside the elect among Jewish nation from OT were His children, and even now some are, though not many~just as not many Gentiles were during the OT.

Probably no difference, but I do not find the term "child of God" or "children of God" specifically.

Really not germane to this thread, anyway. Just a term I personally use when people are attempting to work on the side of good.

[TruthScientist]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God". In the Old Testament, Israelites are referred to as "the people of God" in a couple of places (Judges, 2 Samuel, eg.) As already stated, it is my personal term for anyone striving for good and against evil. Nothing more.

I don't quibble with your definition, TS, as it is your definition, but it would eliminate the Israelites and it seems the Bible states otherwise. That is, if the "people of God" are also considered His children.

find anything that refers to HIM being our Father...?

[crowcamp]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God". In the Old Testament, Israelites are referred to as "the people of God" in a couple of places (Judges, 2 Samuel, eg.) As already stated, it is my personal term for anyone striving for good and against evil. Nothing more.

I don't quibble with your definition, TS, as it is your definition, but it would eliminate the Israelites and it seems the Bible states otherwise. That is, if the "people of God" are also considered His children.

find anything that refers to HIM being our Father...?

Yes, of course. But not specifically child or children of God.

My take; my words. Not found in the Bible.

[TruthScientist]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God". In the Old Testament, Israelites are referred to as "the people of God" in a couple of places (Judges, 2 Samuel, eg.) As already stated, it is my personal term for anyone striving for good and against evil. Nothing more.

I don't quibble with your definition, TS, as it is your definition, but it would eliminate the Israelites and it seems the Bible states otherwise. That is, if the "people of God" are also considered His children.

find anything that refers to HIM being our Father...?

Yes, of course. But not specifically child or children of God.

My take; my words. Not found in the Bible.

The Lord taught us the Pray OUR FATHER...  no children... no father...  just my take on it... 

[crowcamp]

I can't find specific reference in the Bible of someone being "a child of God". In the Old Testament, Israelites are referred to as "the people of God" in a couple of places (Judges, 2 Samuel, eg.) As already stated, it is my personal term for anyone striving for good and against evil. Nothing more.

I don't quibble with your definition, TS, as it is your definition, but it would eliminate the Israelites and it seems the Bible states otherwise. That is, if the "people of God" are also considered His children.

find anything that refers to HIM being our Father...?

Yes, of course. But not specifically child or children of God.

My take; my words. Not found in the Bible.

The Lord taught us the Pray OUR FATHER...  no children... no father...  just my take on it...

Can't argue with that. We have our takes.

[TruthScientist]

agreed...